PvE skill reversion, what do you want to see?

Agreed on SY! needing a nerf of some sort. You have to wonder what Anet was smoking when they thought up a +100 armor skill. The only reason its still unnerfed is because it takes a year of grinding to get it half maxed.

IMO, SY should be changed to this:
4 adren cost, 8 recharge
Shout. For 2...4 seconds, all other party members gain 100 armor.

Basically a much more powerful Watch yourself, but at best able to be kept up about 1/3rd to 1/4th of the time.



Sabway doesn't need a nerf IMO, its at best decently powered.

There's really no way to nerf sabway without screwing up necros in PvE. You either have to kill the curse necro, kill the MM, or kill soul reaping. Seeing as those 3 are pretty much what make necros viable in PvE, it's not going to happen.

because balanced PvE is what we need. killing monsters need to be balanced. because speed an the ability to win everything should not be in a fun game. because after all, guld wars is neither fun, nor a game. its more like real life to some people.

amirite?

Yeah! Why don't we just skip the middleman and have all the monsters explode in a gooey fireworks show of loot? PvE isn't about playing the game, it's about picking up loot and having fun, amirite?

One of the fundamental problems with online games is that for some people, fun means a challenging game that requires thought and skill, and for others it means an easy game with tons of eye candy and loot. I'll never really understand that latter group, personally. Easy isn't fun, it's boring.

Remove SR triggers from minions.

SY and Sabway are less of a problem than UB. SY teams are running actual builds and playing their characters normally. Sabway takes up 3 party slots...

SY and Sabway need to be toned down, but they aren't bad. UB needs the nerfstick in a bad way.

I don't see how you find steamrolling enemies by mindlessly hitting buttons fun. Personally, I find it very boring, and I'm sure many agree with me.

Games aren't supposed to be super easy. Games need challenge in them to keep people playing. Not a whole lot of people will continue playing a game if it's super easy, which Guild Wars PvE is right now. Now I'm not saying PvE should be a super challenging thing, because it shouldn't. But elite areas and hard mode need to be somewhat challenging. Ursan, along with other PvE only skills, throw the challenge out the window.

Now sure, you could say if you want challenge don't play ursanway, which is totally true. But if you didn't know, ursan is affecting how others who want a challenge play, which is part of the problem.

People managed to play the game before ursan and PvE skills, people should be able to play it if they get nerfed.

As long as your team is killing enemies, this nerf will not change anything.

when has this game NOT been super easy? even before pre-ursan, it was easy enough. ub just makes it faster.

How did this become a discussion about nerfs? Let's be very clear about this, ANET IS NOT GOING TO NERF A SINGLE SKILL IN PVE.

Put it this way ... they are going to an awful lot of trouble and spending alot of man-hours (read: money) to put in this 'separation of skill balances'. And it's not because they want to - it is counter to their original model. It is only a result of the endless crying over nerfs.

Now do you really think they are going to go to all that trouble to pacify the QQers ... only to nerf something else and start it all again??? Surely you don't think they are that stupid...

On a side note: why do you think this is happening 3 years after release? We are beta testing GW2 basically (which is a good thing).

I believe one of the reasons for this is that Anet finally gets that PvE requires a totaly differnet kind of balance than PvP.

In PvE we require that every skill line for a profession be viable to play. So that An elementalist can go fire/water/earth/air without losing his effective ness to the rest of the party. The same holds to of all the classes.

In PvP balance means that a warriors offence is offset by a monks healing, or a elementalists spells by a rangers interupts. In PvE we need balance within each profession.

Now the possibility of seeing smiting monks or blood necros exists or warriors using tactics again....

If Anet simply does a few skill reversions and then does absolutely nothing with PvE it will be just as bad as if they did nothing at all to begin with.

Sabway is fine in PvE; there's nothing really wrong with it. It isn't invulnerable and it has quite a few weaknesses.

SY! needs to get toned down to +40-60ish armor. Still enough to make it worthwhile but not so much that damage becomes a joke. The 4 second recharge idea is terrible and just kills the skill.
Maybe make it affect the user then and drop the adrenaline to 6-7.

I think he's deleting your posts because you're posting shit.

But maybe it's just me.

I've fallen asleep at the keyboard while SYing as a Paragon. The easier the game is, the less incentive there is to play it.

Sure, I can play GTA4, put 1000 cheat codes in and drive a tank around, invincible. But that gets old after roughly 5 minutes. Just like Ursan.

You know what the best part of the whole argument is? If you make PvE too easy (UPS ALREADY THAR) you make it boring. If it's boring (UPS ALREADY THAR) then you don't want to play it, and you begin to PvP. When you PvP you realize how broken many skills are, and realize that they should be nerfed and anyone who thinks that Splinter Weapon in its completely un-nerfed state is good for the game is a moron.

oops.

QFT
PvE doesn't need to become easier, PvEers shouldn't be complaining about skills when they don't know why they're broken.

PvP we will be throwing pebbles at each other.

PvE may as well just have 8 diffrent kill buttons.

Thats how it will be i bet ^^

Can we get Avatar of Melandru down to like, 15 or 20 energy? Or AT LEAST bring the +health up to like 200 again

Yeah, its pve, who the hell cares?

Update - ?? ???? 2008

Miscellaneous

-Reduced Hero functionality of the Curses and Death Magic skill lines.
-Removed primary attributes from Heroes.

Boom, bye bye Sabway. Gogogogo Blood/SR Necro heroes!

Nerfing anything in PvE now is just unfair to those who did not jump on the Ursan/Imbagon/whatever bandwagon early enough to have finished everything already. Those who are just getting on the title grinding treadmill would be completely demoralised and would quit the game. Buffing, on the other hand, would only demoralise those who have already climbed to the top of the GWAMM flagpole, and these players are as much a boon as a cancer to the game. (I have yet to meet the nice GWAMM.)

Which is why I doubt Anet is going to nerf anything, even though I am elitist enough to think that GW would be better if at least half the PvE playerbase did indeed quit. At least the lag would be less.

what's a GWAMM

The game was somewhat challenging before PvE skills and consumables. You know, back when players complained that elite areas were too hard. Once ursan and consumables came out, very few people have said the elite areas were hard, because all they have to do to beat it is press c and spam 123.

By the way, stop trolling, and I won't have to delete your posts. I've deleted one of your posts, and it was a troll post. Of course if you have a problem with me keeping these forums clean, feel free to PM an admin.

I spotted a flaw.

Well that's cause you're being noob and using a tank.. tanks are extremely boring in a game like GTA. What you have to do is drive a regular car around and crash into people and make them fly and watch them die and blow up other cars and shoot people in the leg and punch them and run, stuff like that makes it fun for at least an hour.

Like in Oblivion, getting a mod that made people fly when they got killed. Typing in TGM then going around towns with a 1hit kill sword or using your fists and watching them fly, that supplied 3 hours of awesome fun!!

But yeah they get boring pretty fast and while Ursan is fun for the first hour as long as you're getting good loots, it gets boring pretty fast. Same with 55ing and other "invci" type farming builds.

If Anet is gonna do anything they need to make PvE harder, I'm just not sure how they'll go about doing that without it being monotonic. I'd also like to see some buffs (yes this is like my 4th time saying this in this thread) on unused skills or skills that are horribad but can't be buffed cause they would imbalance PvP. Or hell just remove 30% of the skills altogether!

Like Shatter Storm which can be said to be totally useless in PvE or anywhere. Change the whole entire skill. Make it cost 15 energy, 25-30s recharge.. and have it do damage per enchantment removed up to a capped number. Then it could be a super Shatter Enchantment and less suck. But see I suppose that would make PvE easy soo...yeah like I said before I don't know how Anet will go about it.

Maybe that is why they're making Guild Wars 2. Hah.

EDIT:

Arkanto's this game was challenging during Prophecies when there was only Prophecies. Factions when NF didn't exist. But as they added more skills it got even easier. PvE Skills and EotN just totally rendered the prior campaigns easy. But I"m sure most of the difficulty in Prophecies had to do with me being noob, but at least a tiny bit had to do with the lack of the skills we have now. One area that is still difficult for me is Torment area. Sure I could run things that make it easier but easy isn't fun if I'm not getting tons of phat lootz.

I've changed my mind, I don't want PvE skills (other than ursan) to be nerfed. I want to see enemies in elite areas/hard mode with PvE skills. When people bitch and complain about how overpowered the enemies are because they have the same overpowered PvE skills they use, ANet will listen to the mass whining and nerf them.

Win win situation.

3 hour dungeon where the final boss and all mobs with it have UB or SY. Sounds fun.

No, it sounds annoying, which is the whole point. Annoy people who don't think PvE skills should be nerfed into making them want the skills to be nerfed. It's the perfect plan.

Evidently you missed the sarcasm of how I could consider that fun.

Chances are, they could still ursan it easily (remember, armor and most defences ignoring damage ...). Even vs. AI ursan id say they would have easy-ish time (focus fire, ftw ..., kd chains, ftw ...)

But again, were talking about people who continue pressing 1 against monk boss which is casting spirit bond ...

It has same chance of being loose/loose like win/win. Most likely outcome is that normal builds would get hit too much

Kill the SY gon, snare the Ursans.

I see Scythe Ursans with Rocket Launchers.

Yes, it would be nice to give people a dose of their own medicine/suggestions.

But I can imagine people not only asking for a nerf of these mobs, but also asking for nuclear warheads, machine guns and air support. People love power creep too much.

Or just run Vocal Minority!

There are counters, use them!

personally, I think Anet should make all enemies in all hard mode/elite areas run counters to whatever build your taking, so no matter what you take, you lose.

OR even better!

You have to actually use a FLEXIBLE build!

But then the problem of Ursan stll exists....
No counter for it...

...And Henchies...

Well, I'd like to point out that many monsters are already using horribly imba PvE skills. Let monsters have ursan if we can use Battle Scars and Gelatinous Absorption

Yeah, and pwn ursans by SV/AV.

I like how you assumed that ANet would put SY - a warrior skill - on a paragon. Shows how much you use it on your paragon, lolz.

Put Spitefull Spirit on the SY gon, he'll wipe the entire mob.

Knowing how big Anet likes to make their mob's Ursan's would be bad.
But Firestorm will make them run round like the headless chickens the really are :-).

Better on ursan hey?

I want discord at 1 sec cast for the lulz!

They should add player made builds to the AI.

A group of shock axe warriors, coupled with a Sandstorm ele or 2 would be fun. But, they won't. Average joe scrub will cry it's too hard.

yep see that's the big problem you can't get everybody happy although that seems what everyone wants around on gw -_-

There's definitely better bars to choose than what they're using, but the AI fails pretty badly at shockaxe. Something the designers had to keep in mind.

Make it have a standard build with say 4 optional slots. These slots will be decided upon entry. Scan the group for similar skills (damage type, skill type) and then add some counters in the optional slots.

There are so many cool things ANet could do with challenging PvE, but they just don't.

Say there is a 6 AI group. To monks, to eles two shock axes. Script them to randomly spike weak targets with:

First EQ + AS on the warriors.

That would be interesting, given that the AI has perfect timing. Pre-protting is and interruption becomes necessary. Oh, and remove the instant cast crap, since that nullifies interruption. On a side note. Fast-cast properties for monsters is a stupid idea, since it makes it harder to actively counter them by being good.