The Madness That Is Ether Renewal

There are probably a small portion of players who are solely goal or process oriented. The majority of players are probably both goal and process oriented. The relative value of each (goal vs. process) can also vary over time. A player may spend time gaining Kuzick/Luxon faction (the goal) by HFFF on one day and AB or Vanquishing (the process) on another day.

In the end, overpowered skills seem to ruin things for (almost) everybody by devaluing the goal and making the process trivial.

Illogical.

In pretty much every case, the players are the ones who first point out a problem before Anet acknowledges that the problem exists.

If you wait for Anet to tell you where the problems lie nothing will ever get fixed.

I agree. Upier, you really don’t understand what you’re talking about. There’s a problem. Players are dissatisfied with the decisions made by ArenaNet. That is a problem.

PvP and PvE have both experienced balance. Mob scattering, SB ending after 10 attacks, Protective Bond, TNTF being toned down, etc.

I don’t believe that Anet’s own employees play their game anymore. It’s impossible that they would. If they did, they’d be equally frustrated as we are and a change would be made.

Izzy’s busy dicking around in TF2, goodness knows what Andrew Patrick is doing.

The excuse for the lack of a skill balance being, “Oh, they were sick.” If I went to the client and said, "sorry, couldn’t hand you that deposition summary, I was sick", I’d lose my job. They’ve pulled that twice now.

I have a question for ANet but it will never be answered: Why, despite the vast wealth of information and input available from the best, most able, and the most knowledgeable players of your game, did you choose to make decisions your fanbase consistently considered bizarre?

I think the problem is that Anet has failed at the bolded part horribly. Instead of designing the system to make both types of players happy, they have changed the system to where both types of players piss the other off.

In reality that is a different topic altogether though. If Anet knew what they were doing, they would be able to balance their game not affecting players who don't care and making happy those who do.

Balance affects a lot more than people may realize though. I think this sums it up nicely:
Are you serious? You are giving Anet far far far FAR FAR too much credit. People who have been playing this game for years have watched every mistake Anet has made. Does that mean they are a bad company? Not neccessarily. The problem becomes when they create problems and then fail to fix the problem because they don't think its a problem.

Balance in Guild Wars is a problem. Anybody at Anet who doesn't think so is flat out wrong. Those same people working at Anet who are involved in Guild Wars 2 will be a problem when that game is released as well. I am confident in this assertion.

Finally the question has been answered. Either Anet doesn't know how to balance or doesn't care. I think we got our answer (at least from you).

The millions of people who bought Guild Wars aren't big enough to matter? All of those millions of people have now been lied to because things advertised on the box are gone. Whether or not those millions bought the game for those reasons is irrelevent. The consumer is being lied to. That is one of the things at the heart of the issue that has yet to be refuted.

I would post the "aw geez not this shit again" picture, but I don't want my post to get deleted.

You add something that is (supposedly) balanced into a completely unbalanced game.
Does that mean that the game is now balanced?

The game would need to be COMPLETELY trashed and rebuild if we'd want to come even close to some sort of a balance. And balancing JUST the player - won't do that.

Or ... you know what we could do?
We could make all the players invincible to any damage (outside of life-stealing) unless the mobs drops some sort of a bomb before our feet.
Wouldn't THAT be fun?

Bolded the important part.
Before that - it's just a potential problem.

Depends on how the game was "unbalanced" to begin with.

Unless you come up with some of the most sophisticated AI in the world, you would never be able to achieve balance in PvE. So you compensate, and this is what's happened with most games to this date - and it's come to many of their benefit.

But granted, there is a different kind of balance to achieve; the balance that concerns player difficultly and skill against all of these preset challenges.

Upier - there's a problem. It's not fun anymore.

Just because ANet doesn't admit it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

It's called denial.

Stop defending some of the most terrible marketing decisions I've ever seen. If this game were Pay-to-Play, Guild Wars would have lost most subscribers by now.

That was the best decision that anet has ever made, that should have been done at the start of Guild Wars. Because of the divide, myself and many others are finally going to be able to enjoy Guild Wars the way we like to play it. Some of us are handicapped and/or do not posess the skill to do some of the harder areas / missions and this split and PVE skills evens the playing field.
Until the split, I lost faith in Anet, it is now restored and it proves that they care about ALL players, not just the elite or the PVP players. To me, that means alot and says alot for Anet. Best business decision on their part ever!

If Anet cares about all players, why are skill balances so late and so crap, and why does Ursan exist?

Please note, I, like many others who play PvE, liked skill balances as it forced me off a build I was playing if it got hit, it gave me more options... there's many reasons.

^^Also, with the balances you could get a skill that was useless before adjusted to where it had viability in a new build. It encouraged THINKING. Hmmm...

Well we can start with the fact that we are using skill that were balanced for PvP rules (stuff like - rules about max hp, energy regen, hp regen, environmental rules) and that those rules do not apply in PvE.

So why is it so hard to accept that "something being unbalanced in PvE" isn't good enough reason for a change?


If you look at the box - I think it says something like: "the gaming experience may change".
It also states that A.Net has the right to change the game whenever and however they want.

Plus there is the issue of how many people actually dislike the change.

And because GW is a product that needs to be sold - I am guessing they are trying to appeal to an audience as wide as possible.
Just because certain people on this forum dislike the game - doesn't mean all people do.

But ... I am NOT defending them.
But no matter what we say won't change the fact that A.Net NEEDS to classify something as a problem in order for it to change.
But before they change something - they weight the pro's and con's.
And the PRO to change Ursan is balance.
Something that they don't really care about.
The PRO would also be that the the veteran players are pissed.
But by changing they risk pissing off an insanely larger pool of players that AREN'T as good as the veterans.

Show me the money, anyone?

Edit:
Sorry - bitching with WAAAY to many people to not miss something: :P
So ... what goals in PvE have non-personal value?
I thought that in the great "PvP-er RULE and PvE-er SUCK!11!"-time we already established that anything done in PvE has no value.

The 'nerf ursan would cause people to quit' theory doesn't work.

People played this game for 2.5+ years before Ursan.

And why don't they apply to PvE? Just because of the monsters?

Because that's not all of the problem.

Previously, "gaming experience may change during online play" is related to ESRB not being responsible for the social interactions that you experience during online play. Recently this was to change to confusion about game updates and the like.

You are right, however, that online games are never definite. But just because ANet has the ability and right to do a complete u-turn from their game direction doesn't mean they should, most especially since it's one of the few things pertaining to GW's success.

...Which is what they've shown *through* Ursan, hence why many want it to cease to exist.

The players who played for 2.5+ years before Ursan are the veterans.
How about players that haven't played for that long?
Or how about the players that did - but just suck?

So .. how do you keep them interested in a game (or better yet - interested in buying things that they don't have yet) - if they can't play it because of the moronic game design decisions? Where they would have to waste more time to learn how to play a game then the game has left before GW2 comes out?

Here's an idea: Reduce the difficulty of normal mode so "inexperienced" players can see the content. This way both parties are happy, since people can see the areas and the challenge remains in Hard Mode. This was a solid idea they went through with DoA, with it's Normal Mode being drastically easier.

Of course.
Take something like e-denial.
E-denial skills are balanced on the fact that players have an energy regen value of 2-4.
In PvE - those numbers do not apply.
Those skills are unbalanced by default.

But like previously stated - but if the this unbalance is an answer to the fact that the AI sucks - then balance doesn't matter.


Actually - if balance doesn't matter - then "being unbalanced" isn't even PART of the problem.


Wouldn't that be just the half-assed solution that we've seen so many in our playtime?
The fact that PvE skills require no attribute investment is completely and utterly against the basic premise of GW.
Ursan is just as broken as Winds.

Superb idea!
But like I've said before - this idea ISN'T part of the "Nerf Ursan!".
This would require trashing PvE and re-building it.
(Or they could just make all the foes follow the same rules as the players. No immunity to KDs, normal HP/energy regen rates, no natural resistance, .... The simple fact that the player can think should make the game easy enough to still come through with the basic point of PvE which is that the player needs to win!)

And we KNOW they won't do this. Because it's not easy.

Upier, it's humans vs. very poorly designed AI.

The PvE monsters need all the help they can get.

That is not a problem with PvE, that is a problem with Mesmers. I agree fully that Mesmers have a difficult time in PvE, and that should've been addressed long ago.

Let me give you an example: God of War. On God Mode, everything is imbalanced as hell. Most bad guys can kill you in just a couple of hits while said bad guy could take a couple hundred. Not to mention that you were always outnumbered, save for boss fights (which in fact weren't really fair, either. *%(# you, minotaur!). Now, did I complain about this? No, because I'm a human. I am *smart*. I am going against an AI. I don't need overpowered shit to beat overpowered and horribly stupid shit.

Who said I'm not against PvE skills?

It involves Ursan because, with my idea in place, there wouldn't *be* a need for Ursan.

Turn the difficulty of a high-end area on Normal mode relative to that of something a bit easier (example: making normal mode Urgoz as challenging as the Jade Sea)? What's so hard about that? Not to mention that they already did it in DoA, so ANet showed it could be done.

There we go. The core of the issue.

PvE skills were placed in the game because many professions were not playing to their potential. The ability to have synergy with other professions and skills had created builds that were nerfed by Anet to maintain PvP integrity.

For this reason, while I disliked Ursan, I understood its benefits. It allows players to play the character they want, get their HoM set up effectivly and finish their main. It is immune to PvP skill nerfs, so there will always be a build any character can play in PvE. You can H/H the game without beating your head against a door of overpowered monsters. Or you can team up and take on vanquishing with any toon.

However, when massed together, Ursans are imba. Its--apparently or Anet might have done so by now--difficult under the current engine to nerf Ursanway and maintain the original concept of the elite in the first place (one skill any one can use to work on their main).

So we got overpowered skills in the game. And, despite complaints, Anet probably felt confident in leaving them there.

But now we've got something new. Whether we asked for it or not, whether we wanted it or not, we now have in our possession a way to clean the PvE slate. No longer must PvE play "suffer" under PvP balances. Anything that gets nerfed for a PvP reason does not have to be from a PvE one, and skills that were skillkilled can be readjusted to run effectively. One example is the OP and Ether Renewal.

I and other people are trying to make lemonade out of this...mess Anet has dropped on our heads. Skills can be buffed to pre-nerf levels without destroying PvE balance; they can be geared to make all professions effective, and multitudes of builds can come about for each class.

Monks can have their boonprot back. Eles can SFway if they choose, Rit Lord can be buffed again, Shadowstepping can turn sins away from being farmers and 1-build wonders and paragons can afford to run effective passive prot beyond TNTF builds. Skills that never say the light of day in serious play can be expierimented with, perhaps even enter PvP if they proove not to be the most overpowered trash ever to exist.

This is what the people who don't like ER in its current state appear to be asking for. I--and I believe they--feel that overbuffing something is as bad for the game as overnerfing it. Balance is good. Imba is not. Imab gets boring; imba gets things done too easily, too quickly, and by too many people who suck at the game and have no desire to improve themselves in it, only to have Anet hand them another easy button. It takes away from our achievement the same way scripts take away from cartographers.

Like I said back on page 25: there was a time when many people looked at other dolls/toons and said "whatever; i don't want to waste my play time getting something that will only make me look pretty". Those people did without, and were happy to. Now, everyone wants everything, and they can get it. My view: if you suck at this game and don't want to get better, you don't deserve a torment shield. You didn't earn it; you just easy buttoned for an hour.

And you know you didn't too. proponents against balance keep bouncing back and forth between "these skills aren't overpowered" to "whats wrong with these skills being overpowered?" Often in the same damn post. You know they're imbalanced, you don't care about game integrity, you just want your damn easy button so you can get your shit. balance be damned so long as I get my stuff without putting forth effort.

When you take away the "Anet thinks its okay" argument (and take it away because its BS; they haven't come out and said what they think one way or another), the "Multitude must love this because they are not leaving en masse" drivel (which is drivel because people are leaving), thats the real argument behind wanting ER and other imbalances left in PvE or added to.

Balance be damned, I want "my" stuff. I say dust off your Playstation, break out your game shark and GTFO of my online game. You're screwing it up.

GGs

EDIT: sorry if I come off a little heavyhanded, but I'm getting sick of people reposting the same questions like a two-year-old pouting why why why why why why why why thinking that if they just keep asking we'll either give up or run out of answers.

No problem, but it was directed at the person above me.

If Anet did care, they wouldn't of created this skill and it's as simple as that.

While in itself an in-depth and concise post, I want to bring up this portion:

People aren't leaving "en masse" because the general populous doesn't care.

A good friend of mine in WoW says this about the casual player: "They could give less of a shit", and that's very true. This applies to everything: armor, elite areas, nerfs, buffs.

The whole purpose of this thread is vague. Why else would PvE'rs want skill balances unless they wanted to make the game easier? All I have ever heard is just people complaining how they can't farm this, or can't do this fast enough, and then when Anet finally changes it, people still bitch.

People bitch because they can, without any real reason as well. If PvE'rs had any ounce of sense, they would understand that new or different skills wouldn't make PvE more fun, but actually new CONTENT would. It's a shocking revelation, I know.

So you finally admit that there IS a problem with Ursan Blessing, yet you have spent the last 5 pages defending it against us that the game design choices from ANET weren't a problem because they themselves haven't said it was a problem.

Talk in circles much?

Game companies can be willing to encourage a higher level of functioning with their products. There's a reason why the Nintendo Wii is being used to promote brain/body functioning in the elderly, because it beats the alternative of allowing people to waste their lives away in front of television sets. The message is pretty clear to me also; when people are in the right state of mind they seek to be challenged in some way. That doesn't mean we shouldn't get some breaks, but we aren't babies who can't think through things. I don't see why a game like guild wars should accept being a pacifier for the genre (which it never was, based on original game design, read: skill > time spent). Note that this analogy refers to catering to the part of the game population you can expect to cry all the time no matter what you do.

Imposing a handicap on self is already an admission of something needing to be fixed. It also doesn't stop someone from doing the right thing and asking for the challenge to be provided by the developers. (Why not combine the two behaviors by both challenging oneself and asking for a challenge to be provided?) And like the others, I hate when game companies put in brainless grinds in the place of challenges that require us to think.

Someone may not respect that guild wars was full of achievement based rewards, but an easy game will not provide enough psychological rewards for a majority of people. No difficult problems to solve or tactics to explore. No enemies worth defeating and bragging about. And with those three gone, noone and nothing left to talk to others about. That sums up the 4 types of motivations for playing a game. If you still want an easy game where you don't have to think, you could probably spend your day lining up action figures and knocking them down with a grin across your face. Games with an ESRB of Teen+ aren't meant for you anyway.

GUILD WARS
GUILD WARS
GUILD WARS
GUILD WARS
GUILD WARS
GUILD WARS
GUILD WARS
GUILD WARS
GUILD WARS
GUILD WARS

Oh right, I agree with the above statement. The only people who don't want Ursan to be nerfed are hardcore farmers. or bad players.

Then why are only a handful of the people visiting this forum every day complaining about it?? Right now there are 1830 people on this forum, but only 10-20 are complaining?? Where is your "(almost) everybody"??

So of the minority of people visiting forums roughly 1-2% are complaining about this issue!!

I believe that you meant "the only people who want Ursan not to be nerfed ..." since there are actually three groups of people here, those who want it to be nerfed, those who want it not to be nerfed, and those like me who couldn't care less either way.

One final thing before I'm done with this thread. The perceived problems (perceived, as they are only problems from certain points of view as established above) didn't occur because some devs suddenly decided to eff up the game for good. The roots of those problems are in the initial design decisions of the game and all the rest is just contingency work (and somewhat sloppy at that but that's not the real problem). You know, they could be solved to the satisfaction of (nearly) everybody but that would require a total overhaul of character profession, skill and armor systems, monster AI and explorable design among other things. In other words, it is not possible to stay true to the original vision within the framework of GW, there were mistakes made from the very beginning. That is the reason I still have modest hope for GW2.

For one thing, most intelligent posters (the ones I know) avoid Riverside like a plague in the first place. I wouldn't have come here at all if someone hadn't linked the page to me and asked me to.

On the other hand; there aren't just 20 people complaining either. Just looking at the first page, there are 7 people agreeing with the OP; concurring with the argument that a lack of challenge in this game will kill it. Most of the people disagreeing...are PvPers laughing about "our" folly. I find it...disconcerting that one of them is Avvare, smugly stating how "PvEers asked to be cut away from balance" and the majority must be happy over it...

I hope that was a fleeting act of bitterness. I also hope holymasamune never reads it. The "Thats it! I'm quitting PvE" thread was nothing short of epic in its reasoning why--from one players standpoint--skill splitting is bad for GW in the first damn place.

You remind me of psychic believers Kashrlyyk. There were studies done a few years ago where people were asked how many times a "reader" got a hit and a miss (which is to say, how many times the psycic was correct versus how many times they appeared to be just throwing out names). They guessed maybe 5-6 times right out of twelve times they were wrong. The actual number of missed hits was closer to 20 or higher, when the readings were recorded.

Or to put it another way: you're seeing what you want to see, and ignoring what you don't.

I've never been one to believe that. i always hope that people--in a group or singularly--do care about what happens. This is something they enjoy; they should care about it, worry for its future.. I respect the belief because I know where it comes from but...I'd hate for that to be true.

GGs

Is the number anywhere close to 900??? Which would be 50% of the current online forum users! All I am saying is that a minority of a minority have a problem with it, which is an insignificant amount. They can completly ignore that group, without hurting their future success.

I do care, I care about the growing idea of watching and spying on every single member of society for the very small chance to catch a terrorist, about contracts discussed between Europe and America behind closed doors (ACTA)....etc.
It actually frightens me.

But this is a computer game and seriously, you shouldn´t care so much. I´ve been there too. Care for the important, the big stuff, don´t get distracted by all the small things like a Computer game.

ANet is going to do whatever they want to do! No matter how much you complain. There is no need for a 30+ page long thread about it.

Why do you care, then? This is a forum. People come here to discuss whatever they want to discuss. Nobody here expects Anet to jump up and do something simply because we're DISCUSSING about it. It might be a good idea if they do. But none of us would cry if they don't. As customers we can make the decision whether to support games from a company or not. That's all.

If you don't care to discuss the topic, leave. And unlike an introduction of overpowered stuff to a game, discussing about something won't CHANGE ANYTHING. And it sure won't affect you. Feel free to ignore us.

If you want to argue with us, fine. But saying "Anet won't do anything, stop discussing" is not needed. We all know that. Just leave.

Your reasoning is flawed because you have assumed that those that have not stated an opinion support your perspective without any basis. There are far more people asking for the overpowered PvE skills to be removed than were asking for them to be introduced so, if anything, the evidence suggests that they are alienating a larger minority than they are pleasing.

I think bryant got it right, most do not really care what happens as long as the game is still available to be played. You may think this was the end of Gw as we know it, but i'm pretty sure for everyo one person that thinks this, 10 others are still going to play and enjoy it.

The reason they did this so that more people can achieve titles and money to fill up their HoM cause, be realistic, GW2 is on the way and I totally support their changes. This is just the beginning.
Calling Anet incapable is rather silly... If you know what's the best why not just create your own MMORPG and launch it.
I'd rather have some powerfull skills then none... and why do you mind. It's not like you can't beat someone who's using ER in PvE. Stick to PvP and you'll be ok
Thank you very much

I thought I made it clear why I am standing for Ursan?
It's because of A.Net's track-record.
If they "fix" it - they'll trash the game even more.

I stated ages ago that I wish we'd be playing a game where Ursan-like skills couldn't exist.

Then, like previously stated, do not mention balance in PvE.
We willingly gave up balance for easier game design.

Actually it's not just a mesmer issue.
It's just that the mesmer is the poster-child for this.
Take a look at ele damage and how it just disappears in harder areas, or how heals/prots/armour/... are balanced on the fact that a foe can only do a certain amount of damage, ...


In PvP - A.Net catered the wishes of the best players.
In PvE - A.Net catered the wishes of the average to bad players. And the reason why they need to cater them is because this group is huge and would otherwise probably rage quit on the game because of the moronic design decisions.
Just because the posters here are good, doesn't mean everyone is.
And A.Net seems to be thinking of those people when bringing in some the new ideas. (Well, I'd hope that they are thinking of them, because that would imply that they are doing this rationally, rather then just throwing out every moronic idea that crosses their mind.)
Listen to the man.
Now ask yourself - in PvE - which group is bigger (and thus has more buying power) - the godly players or the average/bad players with farmers? (Ohh and add the fact that the godly players share an emotional bond with GW on not-so-rare occasions - meaning that they won't rage quit if you shit in their face a few times.)

The issue is that not a lot of people see this.
You have people who are happily screaming "OMG!1 Ursan is teh sux!1!! And I refuse to play with something this unbalanced!!1!", but when it's time to do something in GW, they are like "Just a sec! I need to take my Cry Of Pain!".

Your idea involves "Nerf Ursan!", but "Nerf Ursan!" doesn't involve your idea.
That's why your idea is much better.
And that's what people should be screaming for!
Not "Fix the consequence!" but rather "Fix the cause!".

They did it ... what ... 5 times in 3 years?
And now we are asking them to rebuild the WHOLE game a year before the game dies?
Do you see why I have my doubts, or am rather convinced that it won't happen?

If you know that Anet made serious mistakes, and is continuing to make serious mistakes even today, how can any intelligent person have hope for GW2?

Seriously think about it. GW2 is not going to be a fix for all the mistakes they made in GW1, because they haven't even acknowledged that they have made all those mistakes. Instead, GW2 is currently promising to be a CONTINUATION of the mistakes. Remember, everything happening in GW1 now is now simply a lead in to GW2.

No you didn't make it clear. In fact, you were defending overpowered skills as not a problem because Anet didn't declare it as a problem, and now you have backpeddled in the face of convincing arguments. You now ADMIT there is a problem. One step in the right direction. Then you admit that Anet's track record with changing the game is bad. Second step in the right direction.

This thread is about balance. It wouldn't be this long if people didn't care. WHO willingly gave it up? Anet? The players sure didn't.

Let me get this straight. You are saying that Anet screwed up badly balance wise, and overpowered crap is simply a patch to all the problems? Unfortunately, this is a garbage way to run a game. The patch is worse than the original problem. It simply creates an even new bigger problem.

No they wouldn't. They haven't in the past. Why would they now? I can name you a BUNCH of games where PvE and PvP coexist, and PvP changes didn't make the PvE players suddenly leave.

Huh??

People are not yelling fix the cause because they know it is never going to happen. Fixing the consequence has a decent shot.

Fox example...assassins, ritualists, dervishes, and paragons are the cause of a lot of problems in PvP. We could yell to fix the cause (remove the damn things from the game), but it won't happen. Fixing the consequences (balancing all their skills) has a chance of happening. Same thing goes for PvE.

I'm unconvinced as well. Personally I would love to have them rewind the game 2+ years, but that isn't happening either. I think we should just face the reality that Guild Wars 1 is now simply a portal to Guild Wars 2. Once 2 comes out, 1 is probably going to die. Its as simple as that. Unfortunately, this is not how a lot of people thought Guild Wars 1 would go.

We shouldn't? So why do you, or at least why have you the past pages?

Unfortunately, we did not get that. That's no excuse to let everything go in the shitter, though.

Not "easy", but "possible". Most games go in "imbalanced" game design and usually thrive, Guild Wars PvE is no different. Granted, it could've been different, but it would've been terribly hard to do and risky for the AI; the variables the designers would have to pay attention to reach into the trillions^100.

While it would've been pretty cool to see a game like this (maybe GW2?), I'll be happy with this "other way" as well.

No, they catered to the impatient, immature, "I want it nao!" players.

As I've stated before, the casual player usually doesn't care. The casual player is probably somewhere in the middle of the crystal desert, or somewhere in the jade sea, or somewhere in Kourna, just happily trudging along playing the campaign.

The people that these updates are catering to are the same people you see on WoW everyday saying "this game sucks" or "i'm cancelin mah account!" or "i'm cancelin my account if i don't fix this!1!" Thing is, the game grew in people despite their "warnings", you could check their armories months later to see that they're still playing, etc.

There are two types of "bad" players: those who are new and inexperienced and forgivably bad and are off somewhere in the middle of the games (the people who don't care or notice much besides what they're doing), or those who complain endlessly about everything yet play anyway. ANet catered to the latter, which is just another minority and no different than the one you see here wanting all these things nerfed.

Interesting thought regarding UB as a selling point: It's not going to be much of a "sale" when GWEN costs 10 bucks everywhere I go, so that's double suckage.

It's actually just that the other PvE skills aren't mentioned. This doesn't mean they don't want them nerfed. But a lot of the posters here have been against totally op junk in the past, and many of them being against the initial PvE skills.

Plus, people are more concerned with Ursan because none of the other PvE skills can even compare.

Change the normal mode areas of the *elite* areas: UW, FoW, Deep, Urgoz, DoA, etc. I may not have been specific enough.

Qui tacet, consentire videtur!

Or if they don´t complain, the "problem" is not complainable for them, it is a minor "problem" or they even think there is no problem. The reasoning is not flawed.

I've seen just as much "complaining" as people's farming skills being nerfed as a side effect of "PvP balance". So is that not a problem, either?

I see the balancing of pve in several steps:
1. The devs need to inform themselves about the classes , their play styles etc..
2. Gather insight from the community
3. Buff/nerf all professions , separate the pve only skills from titles , nerf ursan so that it becomes much harder to complete elite areas , thus "making" the players make viable builds by themselves. The candidates for buffs imo are : mesmers , sins , ritus , to a degree rangers, dervs and paras.
4. Educate the player base so that the proffesion hate gets smaller
5. Change the builds monsters use in elite areas and in hard mode , instead of just making them more powerful give them better AI. Changing them every month or so (only applies to elite areas) to give more challenge.
Steps 3-5 need to be done simultaneously in one update and done on a regular basis.
6. Motivate players who have been longer in the game to PUG and educate the newer players about the "heart" of the game , instead running away from them like the plague.

About ursan users , i see 3 types of them:
1. The casual : you won't see him stomping DoA , UW or FoW on a regular basis , once he gets through it , we wont see him there soon , cares about skill/time to a degree
2. The title hunter : uses ursan as the fastest method for archieving his goals
3. The oportunist: that's the player who clears DoA ,UW , FoW every day for profit , the worst kind of player guild wars can have , cares the least about the "heart" of GW.
The 1. kind will suffer the most if the steps i mentioned are not taken since they won't get to enjoy the best parts of GW. To those who say that casuals are not supposed to enjoy them , they paid the same amount of money to ANET and deserve the same treatment as older players.
With step 5 players who seek challenge will get it.
I don't see that happening , so i hope ANET makes GW2 alike prophecies where skill>time mattered the most.

One: a truly "casual" player is there for RP'ing, playing through the game, having fun with guildies, etc. They might get together to try an elite area, if they have the time and people willing, but it's not a big deal. Most "casual" players may not have heard of Urgoz or know about DoA as anything but an area they stepped into onetime exploring gateways in RoT and got nom-nommed. If you nerfed Ursan, it would not affect these players. Casual players know elite areas are supposed to be hard as shit. It's the bad players who can't understand why Mending is "baed" on a warrior, or have OCD tendencies enough to waste hours grinding rep, who would be affected.

Two: If you are going to leave Ursan/imbagon/Godmode et al in the game, take the word ELITE off the areas. With these things and cons in the game, there is no such thing as an elite area, because with enough time and grinding, anyone with EotN can have a skill that will get them and their friends through any areas of the game. Ditch HM, as well, while you're at it. call NM Noob Mode, and make HM normal mode. At least then Anet will be honest.

Upier, we all started out as bad at one point, most specifically a point somewhere between 2005 and 2006.


Why does ANet have to lessen the curve now?