Pugs are getting worse I think.
Lakdav
I always thought that monks who stands alone at the end of the battle mostly failed. They were unable to keep the team alive, but were able to keep themselves alive. It ruins the illusion of the generous, selfless, rightous monk profession. If that 1 remaining monk have res, preferably rebirth, then Halleluja, all is well. If not, its like a warrior using Frenzy just before healing signet with Rust on him. But then again, that 1 skillslot wasted on res could have saved the whole team from annihilation. A crazy circle...
kobey
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Originally Posted by Lakdav
that 1 skillslot wasted on res could have saved the whole team from annihilation.
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Aera Lure
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Originally Posted by Lakdav
I always thought that monks who stands alone at the end of the battle mostly failed.
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As for a res, typically a monk should not be bringing a res in an all-human group. There's plenty of room among the other classes to bring a couple resses where its not going to affect the efficiency of their builds as much as it does a monk. The monk should never be casting a res during battle and if the midliners are doing their jobs and paying attention, the monk isnt going to be the only one standing in the event something goes wrong or you need to fall back.
I used to PUG all the time (prior to Nightfall and heroes) and most groups were largely successful. Got all my Protectors titles on all characters solely in PUGs and a few characters I even PUGged a number of the quests. They were far more successful than we seem to remember provided you recruited or joined a forming party with some sense. Tons of fun too since you get elements in group play that you dont get playing with AI. The game used to be played largely with all-human groups, lest we forget, since henchmen were less successful prior to updates (although you could do all the missions just fine using only henchmen). Players used to be more skilled in playing with others in PvE. Those who still are rarely tend never play in groups anymore, sadly. Indeed PUGs are the horror now. Depressing to think about really, as playing with heroes just got boring for me and I dont care at all to heal AI and direct AI for all activities I do in game, nor will I group with anyone using the unnamed skill.
Molock
PuG's have always been pretty bad.. they only seems worse now because we are more experienced and probably have become used to a certain degree of knowledge about the game.
I noticed that for the first week of a games release (Factions, NF, EotN) the pugs aren't as bad, I beat all the campaigns with pugs(first time around). Anyway, you can come accross good Pugs once in a while.
I noticed that for the first week of a games release (Factions, NF, EotN) the pugs aren't as bad, I beat all the campaigns with pugs(first time around). Anyway, you can come accross good Pugs once in a while.
Kook~NBK~
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Originally Posted by kobey
Sorry if I missed it. But which one is you?
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zelgadissan
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Originally Posted by kobey
Sorry if I missed it. But which one is you?
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Anyway, my two cents on the res: resing is for most midliners. That means Me, Rt, R, N, E, and a non-Imbagon P (if those are even still run) could legitimately be asked to carry a hard res. W, D, and A shouldn't have to deal with it - if the party's getting wiped and they're the ones left alive, you have a problem. Mo shouldn't have to deal with it because if somebody's dead they obviously need to start/continue healing/proting.
Darkobra
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Originally Posted by Yichi
Yes. My wife should be topless making me dinner in the kitchen. But somehow I don't think she agrees with me as I get slapped every time I suggest it
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Artisan Archer
This thread explains why Monks will always be yelled at, no matter what they do.
Malice Black
The fanbase got worse in general.
Aera Lure
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Originally Posted by Artisan Archer
This thread explains why Monks will always be yelled at, no matter what they do.
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Still, in all my time in PUGs and PvP as a monk I can count all the times someone went off on me on one hand. There were actually more times I simply raised my hand and said "yeah, that was my fault" and we all moved on. I've had great times as a monk. So few negative experiences that its rather odd actually. Again I think it has to do with choosing your groups wisely, or having a bit of sixth sense about it.
BlackSephir
Breaking news: pugs suck. More after this.
That was new in 1997...
That was new in 1997...
Malice Black
Not all pugs suck, just 99.999% of them 
Aera Lure
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Originally Posted by Malice Black
Not all pugs suck, just 99.999% of them
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RiKio
PuGs.....
Oh, Olias, Livia and Jurah, I love you so much........
Oh, Olias, Livia and Jurah, I love you so much........
Miska Bow
Was refreshing my memory last nite by doing Bloodstone Fen in NM before going in HM. I see someone asking for help on how to do bonus. I get myself invited and we start. At the first druid, before dropping the seed witch spawns the druid; I take the time to explain what the bonus is about. We must in NOT ARM THE GUARDIAN IN ANYWAY. (i used cap in party chat just to make sure). I also advise them to put all heroes on "do not attack" mode.
First guardian we encounter, noob ranger kills its, bonus fail for them. Said nothing and just mapped back to the outpost.
First guardian we encounter, noob ranger kills its, bonus fail for them. Said nothing and just mapped back to the outpost.
adaml83
I think on average, PUGs have gotten worse. However it's still possible to find a good group. Or at least a determined group, that's willing to learn from their mistakes.
Then again a good, helpful guild is a good counter to forming groups at outposts.
Then again a good, helpful guild is a good counter to forming groups at outposts.
Damian979
pugs always seem to be a nightmare til you get a good one
When I monk it's res scrolls b/c if the party's dead and I'm the monk, then I wasn't quick enough and it should cost me a little
[Vengeance] if frequent "spike" deaths are expected
[Rebirth] very situational and seldom brought as it leaves you with one less dead person and two very useless people (one being the monk)
When I monk it's res scrolls b/c if the party's dead and I'm the monk, then I wasn't quick enough and it should cost me a little
[Vengeance] if frequent "spike" deaths are expected
[Rebirth] very situational and seldom brought as it leaves you with one less dead person and two very useless people (one being the monk)
Tyla
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Originally Posted by Riceboi
Monk with no res claiming only noob monks have res=seriously wtf?
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Antheus
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Originally Posted by HuntMaster Avatar
Resurrection should be done after the fight is over, and even if its during it doesnt take long to res someone. I can understand the logic but monks suck anyways, so they might as well bring a needed skill, otherwise they fail. And monks who use res sig fail anyways because when they don't have a bonus they can't res. |
Rez early, rez fast.
If your monk has time and energy to rez, then the monk isn't needed, and nobody should is dying anyway. Replace the monk with damage dealer.
If monk has time to stop for 5-10 seconds to rez someone, then even more people will die, or that monk is not needed again.
The second someone dies, there should be spam in group chat "'non-monk' is using 'ressurection skill' on ...". Not at the end, not after 10 seconds, but ASAP.
If you need wipe recovery on a monk, there's rez scrolls.
Same thing applies to RA. You have people dying one by one, until all that's left is a lone ranger. After 2 minutes of running around, they come next to the monk (remember, monks have no rez), and they start rezzing them using dodge or whatever stance they're using. They succeed just in time, ranger dies, and monk is alive with 10% health, no energy and no rez.
toastgodsupreme
They are getting worse.
And it doesn't stop at just bad player bars. The bad players INSIST on bringing shitty heroes too.
Today in Rilohn some sin thought it would be a great idea to have just one monk and with the following build:
[Light of Deliverance][mending][purge conditions][healing touch][orison of healing][healing seed][heal party][resurrect]
To which I replied "lol oh hell no". Not to mention the sin himself had some monk heals on his own bar.
Am I the weird one for not bringing heals on my bar at all in pve? I mean, my job is to kill shit, I'll leave the healing and whatnot to the monks and N/Rt's.
But yeah, I'm at the point where I refuse to play with warriors AT ALL. Don't care if you're a W/Mo or not. The only exception to the rule is obby tanks for elite areas and dslash godmode wars who announce they are.
I miss the days when it was just Prophecies. If you sucked, your entire team would say "f u" and bail on your ass at the beginning of a mission. So all the bad players had to get somewhat decent to get through the game.
Now with heroes picking up the slack, that's not the case anymore.
PuGs are just terrible now. But I still do it so that I get to see how bad people really are and that way I appreciate my heroes that much more.
And it doesn't stop at just bad player bars. The bad players INSIST on bringing shitty heroes too.
Today in Rilohn some sin thought it would be a great idea to have just one monk and with the following build:
[Light of Deliverance][mending][purge conditions][healing touch][orison of healing][healing seed][heal party][resurrect]
To which I replied "lol oh hell no". Not to mention the sin himself had some monk heals on his own bar.
Am I the weird one for not bringing heals on my bar at all in pve? I mean, my job is to kill shit, I'll leave the healing and whatnot to the monks and N/Rt's.
But yeah, I'm at the point where I refuse to play with warriors AT ALL. Don't care if you're a W/Mo or not. The only exception to the rule is obby tanks for elite areas and dslash godmode wars who announce they are.
I miss the days when it was just Prophecies. If you sucked, your entire team would say "f u" and bail on your ass at the beginning of a mission. So all the bad players had to get somewhat decent to get through the game.
Now with heroes picking up the slack, that's not the case anymore.
PuGs are just terrible now. But I still do it so that I get to see how bad people really are and that way I appreciate my heroes that much more.
poasiods
The one solution to surviving PuG is to lead the party yourself and make everyone ping their skill bars... And kick if you don't like what you're seeing...
Accursed
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Originally Posted by Kela Ven Tori
A monk shouldn't bring res. Mid-line casters should.
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Diddy bow
Nothing wrong with a monk bringing a rez, i mean its pve .
...Just dont use it mid battle
....Just dont use it mid battle
Edge Martinez
Bring Vengaence for the lulz.
TheRaven
Bad pugs are mainly the result of poor planning. Does it really take that much effort to ask folks to ping their bars before starting? If you see horrible bars then leave the group before starting or step up and suggest changes.
If the bad bars refuse to change then you decide whether or not you want to stay with the group or leave and find a better one. If you stay, then quit griping. You know what you're getting into and what skill level to probably expect.
I did Ring of Fire a few months ago with a team. One of the rangers in the group pinged a horrible skill bar. He had 4 bow attacks and 4 dagger attacks. I asked him why he had dagger skills instead of ranger skills and he said uses his longbow to attack, but when the enemies run up to him, he pulls out the daggers.
Oooookay. Hmmm. I asked him to change, but he refused and the rest of the team wasn't backing me up so I shut up about it and started the mission. I didn't need the mission and was just along for fun, so I didn't care if we wiped. We completed the mission and bonus with little trouble and the dagger ranger actually wasn't as bad as I was expecting. (He wasn't that great, but not horrible either)
As far as rezzes are concerned, I usually bring something. My warrior almost always brings rebirth. I've found it useful for saving a party wipe during missions. My ele usually brings the rez sig. I like to have at least 2 or 3 hard rezzes in the group for emergencies and I prefer it if everyone brings at least a sig because you never know who the last man standing will be.
I also have an unbreakable rule that I will never ever rez someone during combat. I'll continue to fight and kill the monsters or run away if things are bad. Once the action dies down, then we can attend to the dead.
If the bad bars refuse to change then you decide whether or not you want to stay with the group or leave and find a better one. If you stay, then quit griping. You know what you're getting into and what skill level to probably expect.
I did Ring of Fire a few months ago with a team. One of the rangers in the group pinged a horrible skill bar. He had 4 bow attacks and 4 dagger attacks. I asked him why he had dagger skills instead of ranger skills and he said uses his longbow to attack, but when the enemies run up to him, he pulls out the daggers.
Oooookay. Hmmm. I asked him to change, but he refused and the rest of the team wasn't backing me up so I shut up about it and started the mission. I didn't need the mission and was just along for fun, so I didn't care if we wiped. We completed the mission and bonus with little trouble and the dagger ranger actually wasn't as bad as I was expecting. (He wasn't that great, but not horrible either)
As far as rezzes are concerned, I usually bring something. My warrior almost always brings rebirth. I've found it useful for saving a party wipe during missions. My ele usually brings the rez sig. I like to have at least 2 or 3 hard rezzes in the group for emergencies and I prefer it if everyone brings at least a sig because you never know who the last man standing will be.
I also have an unbreakable rule that I will never ever rez someone during combat. I'll continue to fight and kill the monsters or run away if things are bad. Once the action dies down, then we can attend to the dead.
Rhamia Darigaz
i think monks with res is pretty cool guy. eh stops monking when its needed most and doesnt afraid of anything.
srsly tho, yeah pugs suck usually. solution=dont play with ppl if you could replace them with a hero who would do the same job better.
srsly tho, yeah pugs suck usually. solution=dont play with ppl if you could replace them with a hero who would do the same job better.
Aera Lure
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Originally Posted by TheRaven
I also have an unbreakable rule that I will never ever rez someone during combat. I'll continue to fight and kill the monsters or run away if things are bad. Once the action dies down, then we can attend to the dead.
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Dallcingi
Pugs have always been bad and will always remain bad... cause they are random.
Aera Lure
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Originally Posted by Dallcingi
Pugs will sometimes be bad... cause they are random.
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phan
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Originally Posted by Riceboi
Monk with no res claiming only noob monks have res=seriously wtf? |
I arz pruuu munk ; with reburth are over ..
Decent monks should never have a ress ;
why ?
Because they need all the skill slots they can have .
I'd rather not bring a res and keep people alive than bringing a res to res people =)
The Red Messenger
if you must pug, i suggest working on leadership skills, and kicking those who dont cooperate/do what their class needs to do. also, have people ping bars before starting to either help them get a better build or weed out the weak
Pugs always get worse this time of year.
School is out.
in about 30 more days when 90% of public schools are out, pugs will be at peak stupidity.
besides, most people who pug are (in my experience)
a) people who failed when using hero/hench
b) people who enjoy pugs, but already completed that mission. they have nothing on the line if the team fails
Pugs always get worse this time of year.
School is out.
in about 30 more days when 90% of public schools are out, pugs will be at peak stupidity.
besides, most people who pug are (in my experience)
a) people who failed when using hero/hench
b) people who enjoy pugs, but already completed that mission. they have nothing on the line if the team fails
HuntMaster Avatar
I love how everyone thinks PvE is too easy yet they say Monks need all 8 slots in order to keep the party alive. How bad are these players that they get pwnt so hard in PvE? Seriously?
My Hero Monk uses 4-5 heal skills max and I NEVER DIE, My party NEVER DIES. I guess if you are playing in HM then monks need every skill for healing/prot. But in NM they can bring res. If one skill decides whether a party fails or not, You need a better monk. You also need better players who know how to play their characters without taking mega damage from every little hit.
But again, this is a game filled with Warriors who don't know how to tank, Monks who can't heal, Ranged professions that do not run from monsters when they begin getting meleed on.
Oh, and BTW, When you have 2-3 melee characters, all attacking different monsters, you're party fails.. concentrate attacks on the same monsters to bring down mobs faster. Don't run ahead of the party thinking you are going to survive.
And for the monks. Keeping the tanks alive is priority 1, When the tank falls the monsters begin to smash on the lower armor rating characters, which kills them fast. Don't res the necro or ele or assassin or paragon or ranger before the warrior because you will just die in the end. You need the tank to absorb damage. I see this mistake ALL the time. Dervishes and assassins are good but they are not as good at tanking as warriors. Res the warrior first.
My Hero Monk uses 4-5 heal skills max and I NEVER DIE, My party NEVER DIES. I guess if you are playing in HM then monks need every skill for healing/prot. But in NM they can bring res. If one skill decides whether a party fails or not, You need a better monk. You also need better players who know how to play their characters without taking mega damage from every little hit.
But again, this is a game filled with Warriors who don't know how to tank, Monks who can't heal, Ranged professions that do not run from monsters when they begin getting meleed on.
Oh, and BTW, When you have 2-3 melee characters, all attacking different monsters, you're party fails.. concentrate attacks on the same monsters to bring down mobs faster. Don't run ahead of the party thinking you are going to survive.
And for the monks. Keeping the tanks alive is priority 1, When the tank falls the monsters begin to smash on the lower armor rating characters, which kills them fast. Don't res the necro or ele or assassin or paragon or ranger before the warrior because you will just die in the end. You need the tank to absorb damage. I see this mistake ALL the time. Dervishes and assassins are good but they are not as good at tanking as warriors. Res the warrior first.
TheRaven
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Originally Posted by Aera Lure
Except for a signet. I like a warrior that will bring a signet and midliners that bring a hard res or two. If a group is set up like that, you're often going to be just fine. In the case where one of the monks runs into trouble, something happens with the aggro or whatever, and one dies, its really nice to have the warrior be able to use a signet and bring them back. Sometimes the other remaining monk can carry the day until full normal ressing can occur, but having the signet can avoid the need to suddenly have to fall back and regroup, because you obviously dont want a midliner (or god forbid a warrior in your case) stopping to cast Rebirth on a fallen monk mid-battle.
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For PvE, I'm generally reluctant to use the rez sig during battle. My logic is this: Can we survive and recover from this without me wasting my one and only rez? If the answer is a possible yes then I'd prefer to save the sig for emergencies. I've seen too many situations where the only person left alive had no rez because they used their sig earlier. Usually they used it when they didn't need to. There was another party member alive with a hard rez and they used a sig instead rather than waiting.
There are a few exceptions:
1. PvP, like I said earlier. PvP is rez now, rez fast or lose.
2. I know that I'll get the sig back soon. Either we're currently fighting a boss or I know that there are at least 2 or 3 more bosses in the mission.
Arnack
Maybe because they are newbs? If you like it or not, they are everywhere. They reside in every game. Instead of flaming them, why not tell them how to get better? That seems like the logical answer to me.
Aera Lure
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Originally Posted by TheRaven
You're correct. I totally forgot about signets. I guess I was thinking more of hard rezzes. For PvP I only use a rez sig and yes, I will use it in the middle of battle. In those situations it's appropiate to use during battle.
For PvE, I'm generally reluctant to use the rez sig during battle. My logic is this: Can we survive and recover from this without me wasting my one and only rez? If the answer is a possible yes then I'd prefer to save the sig for emergencies. I've seen too many situations where the only person left alive had no rez because they used their sig earlier. Usually they used it when they didn't need to. There was another party member alive with a hard rez and they used a sig instead rather than waiting. There are a few exceptions: 1. PvP, like I said earlier. PvP is rez now, rez fast or lose. 2. I know that I'll get the sig back soon. Either we're currently fighting a boss or I know that there are at least 2 or 3 more bosses in the mission. |
Not sure I'd put Rebirth on a warrior if we knew a midliner had it, but I would simply have been happy enough to meet a warrior that gave it thought one way or the other, to be quite honest, as you have.
A Leprechaun
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Originally Posted by HuntMaster Avatar
I love how everyone thinks PvE is too easy yet they say Monks need all 8 slots in order to keep the party alive. How bad are these players that they get pwnt so hard in PvE? Seriously?
My Hero Monk uses 4-5 heal skills max and I NEVER DIE, My party NEVER DIES. I guess if you are playing in HM then monks need every skill for healing/prot. But in NM they can bring res. If one skill decides whether a party fails or not, You need a better monk. You also need better players who know how to play their characters without taking mega damage from every little hit. But again, this is a game filled with Warriors who don't know how to tank, Monks who can't heal, Ranged professions that do not run from monsters when they begin getting meleed on. Oh, and BTW, When you have 2-3 melee characters, all attacking different monsters, you're party fails.. concentrate attacks on the same monsters to bring down mobs faster. Don't run ahead of the party thinking you are going to survive. And for the monks. Keeping the tanks alive is priority 1, When the tank falls the monsters begin to smash on the lower armor rating characters, which kills them fast. Don't res the necro or ele or assassin or paragon or ranger before the warrior because you will just die in the end. You need the tank to absorb damage. I see this mistake ALL the time. Dervishes and assassins are good but they are not as good at tanking as warriors. Res the warrior first. |
A warrior tanking = Bad. Grow a pair and hit stuff.
~A Leprechaun~
HuntMaster Avatar
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Originally Posted by Arnack
Maybe because they are newbs? If you like it or not, they are everywhere. They reside in every game. Instead of flaming them, why not tell them how to get better? That seems like the logical answer to me.
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I am not flaming newbs BTW. I am simply saying that if you are at a later area in the game you should have the basics down by now. It doesnt take long for people to learn " I am a caster, a big monster is meleeing me, I should run away" but they still dont. And New players to the game should not run professions that require "Skill" to use properly, Any fool can tank with a warrior, Only "experienced player should run monks" get the basics down before you try to emulate someone's playstyle you have seen before.
I know fire eles who do not have a single elite skills, but they have elite armor. HOW THE F DO THEY DO IT? I gave up on people along time ago, My heroes know exactly what to do and when to do it, they do not fail me or frustrate me. I wish everyone the best of luck, But 9 times outa 10, they have to practice hard just to upgrade their skill to "Suck".
And I am far from a "good" player. I run a warrior, My job is simple, Any fool can do my job, My heroes keep me alive and win the day for me everytime. I just have to have more HP than the monsters deal Damage. Its easy.
Winning combo= 1 healer monk hero, 1 mm hero, 1 fire hero, 2 melee henchies, 2 healer henchies. Never fails me. Not even in HM.
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Originally Posted by A Leprechaun
If you never die why do your monks need to carry a rez?
A warrior tanking = Bad. Grow a pair and hit stuff. ~A Leprechaun~ |
isamu kurosawa
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Originally Posted by Diddy bow
Nothing wrong with a monk bringing a rez, i mean its pve
....Just dont use it mid battle |
People who insist monks should res need to go back to pre and learn how to play. same goes with those using monk heals as self heals, non ranger martials with less than 14 wm, xx echo nukers...and so on.
The worst part of pug play is that no oen takes responsibility, its always someone elses fault and their build/play is impeccable.
I met up with someone the other day asking for help with a dungeon saying nobody lets him join their teams because they don't understand his skill.
He was using [[barbarous slice], [[gash], [[mark of protection], had 9 wm, then rest in healing and prot...no healing skilsl on his bar.
I sent him off to read an article on how to play warrior but he seid he can't be bothered reading because its for geeks.
non monks should use [[death pact signet], [[flesh of my flesh], [[resurrection signet], [[signet of return].
Mesmers can spec other resses and still be effective at combat ressing.
BlackSephir
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Originally Posted by HuntMaster Avatar
Warriors who don't know how to tank
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Dervishes and assassins are good but they are not as good at tanking as warriors. Res the warrior first.
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HuntMaster Avatar
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Originally Posted by BlackSephir
You win gw imo.
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