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Originally Posted by Nessar
I've never had any pugs as bad as you guys have....
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Fixed it for ya
Pugs are getting worse I think.
kobey
Fixed it for ya
Nessar
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Originally Posted by kobey
Haha, I thought you were refering to all the posters untill i read the entire post
Fixed it for ya |
Clarissa F
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Originally Posted by Kosan
Maybe that's why they didn't "bother" to do the attribute quests, because they still can't do them. You can get the quests after you get to the South Shiverpeaks.
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OP: Yeah, most pugs suck, but they always have. Good players tend to form guilds and play together. Others like to go solo and will go H/H. The rest PUG.
rick1027
my two cents if im playing monk i take no rez mainly cause my bar is full but i do bring rez scrolls and i bring them also on any chars that i cant find a space for a hard rez or signet. and ive never had to use them on my monk so far
Alex the Great
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Originally Posted by Lakdav
that 1 skillslot wasted on res could have saved the whole team from annihilation. A crazy circle...
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or you could just get a party that dosent die.
like H/H!
zelgadissan
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Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme
Today in Dragon's Lair... Two monks.
One pinged: [mind burn] [teinai's heat] [meteor shower] [lava arrows] [fire storm] [glyph of lesser energy] [lava font] [resurrection signet] 12 in fire, 10 in healing (hadn't even done the quests yet for attribute points). |
N1ghtstalker
PUG's are bad
i've been 8 minutes in one RA match
how?
the last living ele was having a tombs build and was shadowstepping all over the place outrunning the other team constantly
he annoyed me and the other enemy team
it was a sight for sore eyes
i've been 8 minutes in one RA match
how?
the last living ele was having a tombs build and was shadowstepping all over the place outrunning the other team constantly
he annoyed me and the other enemy team
it was a sight for sore eyes
Rhaegor Stormborn
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Originally Posted by Riceboi
Monk with no res claiming only noob monks have res=seriously wtf?
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Miss Puddles
regardless of your profession, i have found that it is usually best to bring a res skill if you have room for it in your build. this goes for monks as well.
also, never use res mid battle.
that is all.
also, never use res mid battle.
that is all.
isamu kurosawa
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Originally Posted by HuntMaster Avatar
Insults yet no answers. On level 28 monsters warriors can hit for around 40-70 dmg, fire eles can hit for much higher. I am still waiting to hear what war skill can out do a ele skill. So far no one has offered anything except insults. Which leads me to believe no one has anything to offer and I am correct.
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Even if an ele skills deals more damage in a single hit, the warrior has landed multiple hits in the time taken, dealing larger damage overall without paying energy for it.
Casters are better off giving support and "splash damage". Running a team of physicals with casters using skills such as [[barbs] or [[splinter weapon] increases the damage of a single warrior to higher than that of multiple pure damage casters.
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Originally Posted by Davy
On the monks carrying ress issue.
A monk is expected to have HB, 2 seeds, hex and condi removal, skills to heal directly, energy management, heal party and a ress. Well now I would love to see a bar that contains all that and is effective at healing 8 man groups. |
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Originally Posted by Miss Puddles
regardless of your profession, i have found that it is usually best to bring a res skill if you have room for it in your build. this goes for monks as well.
also, never use res mid battle. that is all. |
loosing any role exceot damage mitigation is price enough to pay for that.
Gun Pierson
I can understand that in a well oiled team where players know eachother, the monks won't bring a hard res.
But seriously, if you go DoA HM full run or UW HM clear (which are almost the only situations where I pug anymore) you must bring a hard res as a monk. There are no shrines, a party wipe will teleport you back, the ursans can't res in battle. Yeah I go with Ursan teams there, because it's the fastest way to get started and to just complete the areas.
A good monk feels the situation and retreats when all other options are gone. If you can't keep the team alive with 7 skills because for example over aggro in DoA, you won't be keeping them alive with 8 skills either. That hard ress is more than justified.
What kinds of hard res and when to use them depends on the team and the situation.
But seriously, if you go DoA HM full run or UW HM clear (which are almost the only situations where I pug anymore) you must bring a hard res as a monk. There are no shrines, a party wipe will teleport you back, the ursans can't res in battle. Yeah I go with Ursan teams there, because it's the fastest way to get started and to just complete the areas.
A good monk feels the situation and retreats when all other options are gone. If you can't keep the team alive with 7 skills because for example over aggro in DoA, you won't be keeping them alive with 8 skills either. That hard ress is more than justified.
What kinds of hard res and when to use them depends on the team and the situation.
Riceboi
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Originally Posted by Gun Pierson
A good monk feels the situation and retreats when needed. If you can't keep the team alive with 7 skills because for example over aggro in DoA, you won't be keeping them alive with 8 skills either. That hard ress is more than justified.
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Tyla
Gun, you should bring heavy preperation to areas like those anyway, as all ANet did was buff everything to the rims of stupidity and make huge mobs which create lag. (At least for me anyway)
And even then, I didn't know these guys I did it with via balanced, and we made quite decent progress until the Divert Monk was out of energy because neither of the melee can gain adrenaline (No Earth Shaker) because of the amount of hexes (5 antimelee and tons more).
Areas like that, preperation and player skill is much stronger than a res on a Monk, and that 8th slot on your Monk bar could've also prevented a wipe.
A Monk should always have an active skill bar.
In the case of overaggroing, just don't do it.
And even then, I didn't know these guys I did it with via balanced, and we made quite decent progress until the Divert Monk was out of energy because neither of the melee can gain adrenaline (No Earth Shaker) because of the amount of hexes (5 antimelee and tons more).
Areas like that, preperation and player skill is much stronger than a res on a Monk, and that 8th slot on your Monk bar could've also prevented a wipe.
A Monk should always have an active skill bar.
In the case of overaggroing, just don't do it.
isamu kurosawa
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Originally Posted by Gun Pierson
I can understand that in a well oiled team where players know eachother, the monks won't bring a hard res.
But seriously, if you go DoA HM full run or UW HM clear (which are almost the only situations where I pug anymore) you must bring a hard res as a monk. There are no shrines, a party wipe will teleport you back, the ursans can't res in battle. Yeah I go with Ursan teams there, because it's the fastest way to get started and to just complete the areas. A good monk feels the situation and retreats when all other options are gone. If you can't keep the team alive with 7 skills because for example over aggro in DoA, you won't be keeping them alive with 8 skills either. That hard ress is more than justified. What kinds of hard res and when to use them depends on the team and the situation. |
The ursans HB monk contains no prot whatsoever, it simply relies on the ursans +al, mass kd and straight heals. Its hardly a real monk build.
Put an "exp ursan hb monk" into any situation where they have to play a real monk and they simply will not be able to cope. They won't have the required battle awareness, cannot pre-prot, won't pre veil if needed, will spend time removing hexes like suffering, if any and will complain at the loss of heal party.
Last time i did DoA only 3 party members had a res, a paragon a Rt and a ranger.
ogre_jd
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Originally Posted by isamu kurosawa
The ursans HB monk contains no prot whatsoever, it simply relies on the ursans +al, mass kd and straight heals. Its hardly a real monk build.
Put an "exp ursan hb monk" into any situation where they have to play a real monk and they simply will not be able to cope. They won't have the required battle awareness, cannot pre-prot, won't pre veil if needed, will spend time removing hexes like suffering, if any and will complain at the loss of heal party. |
isamu kurosawa
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Originally Posted by ogre_jd
Um, hate to tell you this, but a Healing specialist Monk is every bit as much of a real Monk as a Protection specialist Monk is - or as a Smiting specialist is.
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Monks are there to do more than spam heal party with the occasional single target heal. Anyone who has only played that build simply does not know how to play the profession properly because that build does not teach them anything but to stand back and spam skills.
It's not a "specialist" build, a healing prayers only monk should still have at least hex/cond removal. It's simply a build designed for bad players to spam healing without paying much attention.
Gun Pierson
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Originally Posted by Tyla
Gun, you should bring heavy preperation to areas like those anyway
Areas like that, preperation and player skill is much stronger than a res on a Monk, and that 8th slot on your Monk bar could've also prevented a wipe. A Monk should always have an active skill bar. In the case of overaggroing, just don't do it. |
Ursan is a special example, but it's the mainstream in pugging. If this is a good thing or not is another discussion. The rest of the game can be h/h even in HM. The only reason I see to pug there is because one likes to pug.
The point I wanne make is that I prepare for the worst case scenario, cause when it comes to pugging, I can only trust myself. My hard res saved so many groups it's not even funny anymore, while still playing with a very active 7 skills bar. Ofcourse I would like to drop it, pugging reality forces me to bring it though.
That eight slot is exactly the prevention of a party wipe in the form of a hard res. I bet on that instead of one more active skill which must be used in the heat of the battle where you can't control everybody and everything. With the hard res you have the final control tool and you can use it without being under pressure. Pressure can lead to mistakes or wrong descisions. It's maybe harsh to say, but as a monk you want to have the situation under control, so control is power.
You can have all the talent, skills and wisdom, but if the party do gets wiped and you don't have a hard res or scrolls...What are you gonna tell them? 'You noobs', followed by a rage quit? It's a pug, not everybody is as skilled or experienced as you are, even though they may say and think they are.
Tyla
Well, you CAN always use a Res Scroll...
Alex the Great
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Originally Posted by isamu kurosawa
The ursans HB monk contains no prot whatsoever, it simply relies on the ursans +al, mass kd and straight heals. Its hardly a real monk build. Put an "exp ursan hb monk" into any situation where they have to play a real monk and they simply will not be able to cope. They won't have the required battle awareness, cannot pre-prot, won't pre veil if needed, will spend time removing hexes like suffering, if any and will complain at the loss of heal party. Last time i did DoA only 3 party members had a res, a paragon a Rt and a ranger. |
isamu kurosawa
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Originally Posted by Alex the Great
this is full on bs. I've done PVe Pvp and ursan monking. What you said is like saying that people that 600/smite to much cant do normal monking.
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You honestly believe someone who has only ever played that build could be capable with a standard monk build in a regular team?
Gun Pierson
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Originally Posted by Tyla
Well, you CAN always use a Res Scroll...
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Tyla
That only rarely happens with me, and Rebirth also brings someone back with 25% health and no energy.
And if they are camping corpses, you're more likely to not be able to rebirth them anyway.
And if they are camping corpses, you're more likely to not be able to rebirth them anyway.
Gun Pierson
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Originally Posted by Tyla
That only rarely happens with me, and Rebirth also brings someone back with 25% health and no energy.
And if they are camping corpses, you're more likely to not be able to rebirth them anyway. |
Most of the time you can at least rebirth one person who can distract the creeps while you take care of the others. If not you can always use a scroll and give it the best you got. But I feel safer if I bring a hard rez too. One monk with rebirth and the other with res chant or even restore life (2 secs if HB is up) can do miracles together in terms of avoiding a complete party wipe.
N1ghtstalker
PUG's are a challenge
they should make a new title for it
a new kind of survivor
first rank is "I'm alive!"
survive 100 PUG's without going mad
they should make a new title for it
a new kind of survivor
first rank is "I'm alive!"
survive 100 PUG's without going mad
Teh [prefession]-zorz
Pugs have been bad since the introduction of heros, before in prof. you actually HAD to be good, because you definitely where'nt going to be using hench..
isamu kurosawa
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Originally Posted by Teh [prefession]-zorz
Pugs have been bad since the introduction of heros, before in prof. you actually HAD to be good, because you definitely where'nt going to be using hench..
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N1ghtstalker
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Originally Posted by Teh [prefession]-zorz
Pugs have been bad since the introduction of heros, before in prof. you actually HAD to be good, because you definitely where'nt going to be using hench..
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heroes made it better
Red Sonya
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Originally Posted by Riceboi
Mending Warrior FTL
Necro with 10 in fire magic just for meteor shower Monk with no res claiming only noob monks have res=seriously wtf? A ranger with nothing but interrupts, literally every skill except troll unguent another necro literally only using two skills the whole mission: suffering and shadow of fear people in fire island missions with no infused armor, and they're like "wtf why did I die so fast?" I know why because you're retard. Near end of a mission: Player Retard 1: sorrz guise I g2g sorrz *player retard 2 has left the game* Player retard 3: what are those cool purple energy balls? let me walk into them, oh that's soul vortex! *I'm burning* =( |
Krill
When this game launched (if anyone can remember that far back), PvE pugs were unimaginably bad. Flare warriors, mending wamos, caster builds so hilariously bad it's hard to fathom...and this was all standard. On top of that monks were hard to find and the ones playing did stuff like heal party until drained. It wasn't until like mid summer in UW that I saw, for the first time, a WoH monk and GoLE prot monk working together in a PvE pug.
garethporlest18
Yeah but back then the game had some real playability cause you couldn't just blow through everything because of those bad pugs.
Riceboi
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Originally Posted by Red Sonya
The above is the typical player I wouldn't want to group with. I'd prefer the bad pug players to someone like this at least they are trying and/or just "having fun" which is the general reason most of us play to "have fun" not to tell others how they should play. The obvious answer to the OP is if you don't like how they play don't play in them. Sure don't need anyone to come to a forum crying about it since that's all most do here is cry cry cry about something or someone thus starting a chain reaction of crying. Mods should just delete threads like these before they even get started they are useless and serve no purpose except for more crying
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zelgadissan
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Originally Posted by Riceboi
go cry some more! boo hoo
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Anyway, the fact remains that pugs suck, everybody already knows that pugs suck, and with the exception of elite areas (Duncan, UW, etc.) there's no reason whatsoever to pug and even then it's meh.
gerlin
If you are going in a pug i don't dare to continue without rez. In nearly every pug someone dies and spams "I'm Dead!". Monks should really bring rez and even consider rebirth. Ofcourse only noob monks rez during battle, during battle your midline casters should be rezzing and the monk should keep up healing so the party doesn't get wiped. In case of a whipe the monk can remain alive since he's furthest back and can easily break agrro. Then he can proceed to use rebirth and just calmly rez the party and w8 for him to regen.
DarkGanni
Personally I like taking ress as a monk in PvE, You never know what can happen. Other People can say what they want about it, don't like the way I play, don't party with me. 
But thats just my opinion.....
But thats just my opinion.....
Laylat
It seriously depends when a monk should bring a rez. Having [[Rebirth] when vanquishing or doing dungeons with H&H's on HM where you anticipate several wipes is useful for not getting the entire party to 60% DP. You could either do that, or flag a hero who is not equiped with a rez to stay back. As far as PUGs go, I bring [[Restore Life] due to the high energy percentage it provides upon resurrection. Missions such as (forgot the name... something Bastion in NF) need to be done right and fairly quickly to avod being overwhelmed by spawning enemies. I pack [[Restore Life] and will use it on the other monk if the party is under medium fire and will use it on another party member if the party is not under very much fire. Packing [[Healer's Boon] will give a cast time of two seconds which is generally pretty quick. I've cast [[Restore Life] in about a second sometimes (give or take a little). Even if another party member dies, so what? Now you got two monks healing the rest which buys the whole party time.
When do I not take a rez? Never. In lower rank areas, you do not need 8 skills because the enemies are too weak to do much harm. In medium areas, a PUG can screw up in some way... there is a margin where things can go either way. I agree I do require a rez, but at the same time, I do not require any other skill (prot, or heal, or divine favour).
Stop debating about whether a monk requires or does not require a rez. There is no written law about it anywhere and it's pointless. Just make sure the party generally knows what they are doing. If you fail the first time and noticed the party was fairly good, try again with some tweaks. It really is not a big deal for a mission to go perfectly the first time.
When do I not take a rez? Never. In lower rank areas, you do not need 8 skills because the enemies are too weak to do much harm. In medium areas, a PUG can screw up in some way... there is a margin where things can go either way. I agree I do require a rez, but at the same time, I do not require any other skill (prot, or heal, or divine favour).
Stop debating about whether a monk requires or does not require a rez. There is no written law about it anywhere and it's pointless. Just make sure the party generally knows what they are doing. If you fail the first time and noticed the party was fairly good, try again with some tweaks. It really is not a big deal for a mission to go perfectly the first time.
isamu kurosawa
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Originally Posted by Laylat
Having [[Rebirth] when vanquishing or doing dungeons with H&H's on HM where you anticipate several wipes is useful for not getting the entire party to 60% DP.
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Originally Posted by Laylat
Stop debating about whether a monk requires or does not require a rez.
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I still believe taking res if your in a pug because they may wipe is a terrible patchwork solution to the problem.
Giving them a crutch means they will never learn. I was speaking to someone last night who finaly had enough of pugs after someone called him a noob for saying "Don't over-aggro" after a near wipe because they can just res and carry on.
If i ever did pug i would make sure the team knew what they are doing before hand, knew each others builds, knew why each person is using what build, and can spell things like "tome".
People also posting that players who are below a certain skill level should use a res are really waisting their time as players that bad usually don't visit forums. And for the few that do, there are plenty of resources here for them to learn which they ignore anyway.
Abedeus
Death Pact Signet and Rebirth should both be used in one team. DPS for a quick high-health and high-energy rez. Rebirth when you can't rez someone without killing him again or luring more mobs.
Red Sonya
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Originally Posted by Riceboi
go cry some more! boo hoo
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Actually I've found PUGS aren't near as bad as people make them out to be on forums. I've played in many successful Pugs recently actually only 1 out of 12 tries for the new weapons in Prophecies was a wipe and that's only because there were only 3 of us using heroes, the MM hero cost us the wipe though not the other 2 players. A lot of "PUG's suk" exaggerating goes on online I find. I've also found that those that complain about them ingame are not good players themselves and are the types to blame everything on everyone else except THIER play which is probably what the OP really is like as well. There's not as many bad pugs out there as these whinners make it out to be on these forums.
Chushingura
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Originally Posted by Riceboi
Monk with no res claiming only noob monks have res=seriously wtf?
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Ate of DK
Considering the type of replies from the OP in his own thread this should be closed. Insulting people about QQ-ing when you started QQ-ing in the first place. Nobody forces you to PuG if you think they are bad. Mhenlo will gladly help you out and he has a res. skill.