Dragons Throughout Guild Wars

With the Guild Wars 2 lore article released last year, one topic has become very popular in lore forums: Dragons. These are just some observations on the links and purposes of Dragons within the Guild Wars story. Its not exactly finished as i want to add more involveing the various depictions of Dragons in Tyria

Dragons are seen in many fantasy stories and Guild Wars is no exception. Within Tyria there are subspecies of dragon, known as Drakes aswell as Serpentine Dragons (Saltspray Dragons) and even Turtle Dragons. Guild Wars strays from your typical modern depiction of a dragon to the point of people refusing to believe said creature is a subspecies of dragon.

However there are dragons within Tyria that are shown to be powerful and knowledgeable: Glint and Kuunavang. Along with these there are many mysterious references to dragons throughout guild wars in the form of depictions within runes and murals. But overall Glint and Kuunavang are at first shown to be the "true" dragons of the Guild Wars story.

Glint

Glint is the first powerful dragon we come to know about in Guild Wars. Resideing on the continent of Tyria, she was the first creature to be placed on Tyria by the gods to oversee this new world. This was a task she was given along with The Forgotton who were to aid her - she was to be the Caretaker of Tyria.

Glint is located with Dragons Lair which in turn is located in a single grain of sand in the Crystal Desert - its never explained why she hides away like this but it is most likely the same reason The Forgotton took refuge in the Desert. Within her lair she compiles the Flameseeker Prophecies and 800 years later she helps the heroes, even pushing them to fulfill the Prophecies.

She is rather mysterious - never telling the heroes the exact details of the Prophecies but instead allowing them to blindly complete them. After the heroes encounter her in the lair, she does not appear until the defeat of the Flameseeker - and when she does appear it is to congratulate the heroes. After the heroes leave the dragon seems to take the Scepter of Orr that was left behind away with her making us question her motives. She then proceeds to help the player in defeating the titan army that had made it onto Tyria.

From this point on Glint is not heard from again, however within Eye of the North we learn that one of the eggs she kept has hatched meaning there is another dragon around. The exact future of this Baby Dragon is unknown at this time but it is under protection of the Brotherhood of the Dragon (who unfortunatly are Dwarves making their future seem uncertain aswell). During the rise of the Great Destroyer this baby was a target of the Destroyers. It is currently unknown as to if this was a planned attack or just the Destroyers sensing a small power and seeking to destroy it.

So with Glint, Guild Wars added its first powerful Dragon which had apparantly been a creation of the gods. This creation seems to leave out major disasters in the future of Tyria such as Nightfall. Due to this many have questioned as to if Glint was helping us or helping herself - this remains to be seen.

Kuunavang

The second powerful Dragon of Guild Wars. Kuunavang differs from Glint in both looks and lore - while Glint took on the shape of a modern European Dragon, Kuunavang is based more on a Oriental Dragon. Another difference from Glint is she appears to be from a type of dragon that is native to Cantha - the Saltspray Dragon.

Kuunavangs origins are never revealed however she has power equal to Glint. Kuunavang was trapped under the Harvest Temple due to the Jade Wind. Since then she had become corrupted by Shiro until the Luxons and Kurzicks united to defeat her. She then proceeded to help the factions defeat Shiro once and for all. After this her fate, like Glints is unknown - she plays no further role in the future of Tyria.

But where did Kuunavang come from? unlike Glint who was actually given an origin, this dragon is just there. No questions asked. Perhaps Kuunavang was just a unusually powerful Saltspray Dragon? but if that was the case why are there not more? was Kuunavang also created by the gods? we hear about their creations on Tyria but never on Cantha.


So Glint and Kuunavang are the two known powerful dragons of Guild Wars. One was created by the gods and the other just appeared after the Jade Wind.


But aswell as having two major dragons in the lore Guild Wars has many other references to dragons. Lets start with Tyria.

Tyria

Other than having Glint, Tyria seems to have very few dragons (Elona having only a few drakes). But one of the most prominent forces in Tyria are the Undead - and within the Undead we have the Bone Dragons. Now Bone Dragons seem to be rare amongst Tyrians - in one mission a White Mantle Fighter claims he saw one at night.

Many people dont think Bone Dragons are actually dragons due to their appearence however others say that their appearence is that of half a dragon. This is still up for speculation. While you would say Bone Dragons are just minor dragons they do infact have a entity who, while not on the same level as Glint or Kuunavang, is widely known - Rotscale.

Rotscale In Tyria

Rotscale is a Bone Dragon animated by the Stone Summit near Ascalon. Rotscale is powerful to the point of being able to trek through Tyria and survive attempts to kill it. It made its way through the Shiverpeaks and eventually to Majestys Rest where it gained a small entourage. Rotscale doesnt seem to have a master or a purpose or objective. However why is this Bone Dragon more powerful than the others? what type of dragon was it before its death and animation?

The Bone Dragons were some sort of Dragon creature in Tyria - but what though?

Cantha

Dragons appear to have a deep connection to Cantha. Its empire is know as the Empire of the Dragon. Almost everywere statues of dragons can be seen throughout Kaineng City. The many subspecies of dragon, from the Rock Dragons to the Saltspray, all inhabit Cantha. This suggests that Cantha has something that drew the dragons to it.

Kuunavang is Canthas answer to Glint, and appears to be known throughout Cantha while Glint was known to an extent in Tyria. Another interesting thing is that all the dragons seem to be in the Jade Sea. While a few inhabit Shing Jea Islands western coasts, there are more in the Jade Sea.

Elona

Strangely enough little to no dragons are in Elona. Apart from the minor few drakes there are no major groups of subspecies to the dragons in Elona. There isnt even a powerful Dragon the likes of Glint and Kuunavang in Elona.


Dragons of Guild Wars 1

So in Guild Wars 1, dragons are featured but dont play as the main story plot too much. Sure Glint and Kuunavang are involved in the story but they dont make many appearences. In the Guild Wars 1 story the dragons are simply beings left by the gods to handle Tyria. Nothing more nothing less.

And then comes along Guild Wars 2....

The Ancient Dragons

And here it is we learn that Glint and Kuunavang are no longer the powerful dragons of Guild Wars. We learn that infact they were the lesser dragons to a more sinister, terrifying breed of Dragons - Also known as the Ancient Dragons.


So after the many fights of Tyria it is revealed that these Ancient Dragons were in fact here from the beginning, unknown to any of the races and possibly the gods themselves. Dragons have always been on the side of the heroes, helping them and making them believe they were the first of their kind.


Are these dragons the "real" dragons of Guild Wars? while all the time we thought Glint and Kuunavang were powerful, we get shown that they are mearly babies compared to the Ancient Dragons who appear to have the ability to create life itself.

So what are dragons in Guild Wars? the mythical creatures that possess knowledge and power or beasts with the power to destroy the world?

Appearences of The Ancient Dragons

There are three visible dragons featured in Eye of the North. Each one "blends" in to its surroundings. However while they are all Ancient Dragons they look very different when compared to each other.

There are a total of five confirmed dragons with one unconfirmed dragon. Currently each of the five dragons rule over certain areas of Tyria. These areas are The Depths of Tyria, The Sea of Sorrows, Orr, The Crystal Desert and the Far Shiverpeaks.

Primordus



Due to his actual appearence being covered by rock we cannot see anything other than his general outline. And that itself is strange. To make things easier i have labeled the things i will address:


The first point is A. This appears to be one of many tenticles coming down from Primordus. Point B is one of the arms that connect the tenticles to his body. When you look at this its almost like The Great Destroyer, Primordus's general. While he doesnt move around on tenticles he has the same limbs and even the same body and neck in a way. Underneath Primordus's head you can see his body which appears to be round - just like the Great Destroyer. His neck is long, allowing him to bow his head in a position that faces his body. The rest of his body is hidden in the wall so we cant tell if he also has wings. Judgeing from the fact he rules the depths in Guild Wars 2, he probably wont need or have wings.

The mural you see was actually done before Factions even came out, meaning it originally had nothing to do with the dragons. However its possible now that ArenaNet have taken the basic look of Primordus off this piece of concept art.

The Dragon of Snow and Ice



Credit for the pictures goes to Malchior and his thread Drakkar Lake ice creature screens - The reason for my use of his screenshots is that his graphics cards limits allowed him to take clear pictures of the dragon without the ice getting in the way


We still dont have a name for this Dragon but it is described as a Dragon of Snow and Ice. This dragon is found frozen in Drakkar Lake (which appears to have been named after it). It is the first dragon hinted at after Svanir, Joras brother, uses a spell to reveal the nature of the lake and becomes corrupted. Its possibly this evil nature that draws Chilling Whisps into the area. Another thing eerie about the dragon is this:



As you can see (look at the characters neck and Mhenlos back) a mysterious light is coming up from the dragon. Now this could be from ArenaNets design of the lake, however its only over the dragon. Getting back to the dragon it at first glance looks like a dragon that would dwell in water to some, however this dragon appears to have frozen on land. If it froze itself or it simply went to sleep and became frozen is unknown (though i would put money on the first one).

While this dragon remains nameless, it has been nicknamed by players as "Drakkar". This nickname is unofficial and stems from the area the dragon is found in known as Drakkar Lake.

Dragon of Grothmar Wardowns



This dragon curves alot and a mysterious mist surrounds areas of it. However due to its distance we cant investigate it further until GW2. Speaking of which in GW2 a dragon is supposed to appear from the Northen Mountains and fly to the south corrupting everything under it. However this dragon seems to be lacking wings. It may be that it has them hidden underground.

While this dragon is nameless it has been nicknamed by players as "Grothmar". This nickname is unofficial and stems from the area it resides in known as Grothmar Wardowns.

This dragon is probably the mysterious "Desert Dragon" mentioned twice in the Movement of the World. See below for reasons why.

Others

The Undead Dragon of Orr


Note: This was titled Undead Dragon. It is unknown if it really is "the" Undead Dragon of Orr.

The Undead Dragon of Orr resides under Arah and is responsible for Orr riseing from the sea. This dragon commands and Undead Armarda that sails the sea of sorrows sinking anything in its path only for the victims to become part of it. The Movement of the World states that this dragon is "more terrifying and more powerful than any being on Tyria". While its not clear if the other Ancient Dragons are included in this assumption, the dragon surely has shown its power.

The Undead Dragon, also known as the Orrian Dragon, has been unofficially nicknamed "Malchor" for easier reference. While its true name is unknown, the name Malchor came from a part of the sea near Orrs new name in GW2 - The Strait of Malchor.

The Dragon of the Deep Sea

This Dragon sleeps somewere at the bottom of the Sea of Sorrows. It is known that its breath has "breathed life" into the sea itself causing tenticles to rise out onto the banks of Tyria.

The Mysterious Desert Dragon

Thoughout the Movement of the World a "desert dragon" is mentioned. While it has yet to be confirmed if this dragon is seperate from already mentioned dragons, many parts of Movement of the World hint at it being the dragon "Grothmar".

The MotW indicates Grothmar flew over Ascalon but it never confirms where he landed. And the desert dragon, never mentioned in the passage explaining how each dragon emerged from their slumber, is located in the Northen Desert - the place Grothmar would of ended up. And last but not least the desert dragons twisted victims have been attacking the Charr in Ascalon - and Grothmar was known to have twisted many creatures on his flight over.

So in short, coupled with Grothmars lack of mention and the desert dragons random appearence, it would seem likely that the desert dragon is Grothmar. This however has yet to be confirmed by Anet.

NOTE: There are things in the GW world that look like possible candidates for the Ancient Dragons but are infact explained.

These include:

• The Two Serpents inside Underworld (Two Brothers who challenged Grenth and were turned into Serpents as explained by the Reaper guarding over that area)

• The dragon head in Sunjiang District (This is just a statue)

• The Statues/Lighthouse things off the coast of Kaineng City

• The centipede-like creatures inside blocks of Jade (These are Leviathans)

• The serpent inside some of the Heroes Ascent maps (These are just scenery)

• The Dragon head near the Saltspray Dragon Shrine (Scenery)

First thing to say. Dang it, beat me to researching this.

Anyways, well researched, probably would have done a little less of a job myself, but, there is something I would like to add. Two types of Kraits, the Krait Arcanoss, which resembles the Bone Dragon, and the Krait Devouss which resembles a Saltspray Dragon. I believe that the bone dragons might have come from the Krait Arcanoss. I doubt that the Kraits can be considered a subspecies of Dragons, but it is always good to keep in mind.

For the Bone dragon, I too think that they are simply half of a dragon. Excluding the Krait Arcanoss, I do not think that there would be a dragon-resembling species that, literally, drags itself around, while also having wings. The reason why the arcanoss probably has the snake-like end and drags itself around, is probably because it is the evolved form of yet another snake-species.

I can't find anything I disagree with and I must say good work on your research. As for your final question, in Guild Wars, I think they are the mythical creatures that possess knowledge and power. And as I say, knowledge leads to corruption, because with knowledge, one would see all the evil in the world, and want to, in their mind, "purify" it by destroying the world, which will destroy the corruption and evil's influence. But thats just a reoccurring theme in many "smart evil enemies" in many many TV shows and Games I've played.

Edit: here's a thought I just got, what if all those saltspray dragons are the children of Kuunavang? Which would explain why they aren't as powerful as Kuunavang herself. Also, I remember there being a quest regarding a rather powerful/important Saltspray dragon, called Albax, that was upset by a NPC in Leviathan Pits.

Albax seemed rather important. He/she f-ed up this guy's entire life by simply being pissed at him. The quest felt alot like a comic relief of a sort though.

Just a few things I'm wondering about. Where did you find out that Kuunavang answers to Glint? I never managed to establish a connection between the two.

Also, there are dragons in Shing Jea Island? Are they only present there during the Dragon Festival or have I missed something big over there?

I wonder if Glint affected Cantha at all. Despite the lore's confusing use of the term Tyria (sometimes just Tyria, other times, all of the worlds), there are never any serpents or any huge traces of Gods to be found in Cantha at all. The description of Glint says she's the oldest creature on Tyria created by the Gods - meaning there probably are older creatures not created by the gods in Tyria or other continents. I think it could be possible that Kuunavang and other Saltspray dragons were 'chilling' in the Jade Seas for a very long time even before the gods came by. For all we know, they could be offsprings from the Ancient Dragons (I mean, dragons have to come from something, don't they? Who can make the more likely candidates than the ancient dragons?).

You misread. Kuunavang is Cantha's answer to Glint, meaning that Cantha's version of Glint is Kuunavang.

Turtle Dragons are a subspecies of Dragons, much like Drakes. Those are on Shing Jea.

Both Glint and Kuunavang are offsprings of the Ancient Dragons (at least how I understand it) and the whole "Glint is the oldest creation of the Gods" might be a hoax to try to hide up the Ancient Dragons existence, much like how the Gods tried to remove knowledge of Abaddon after he was exiled. And as I said in my post above, I think that the other Saltspray Dragons might be the children of Kuunavang, who's to know (and maybe Albax is the oldest of them).

im not to big on gw lore, but maybe the gods tried to glint to destroy the other ancient dragons, but since she wasn't powerful enough they had to flee the tyria. Maybe the gods and ancient dragons were waging war or something.

The reason i did not add connections to the krait is because of Anets use of reskining monsters. The Shadow Army use the White Mantle casters model and skin yet have no connection whatsoever. The same could be said for Krait and Bone Dragons.

Also Krait are native to the Tarnished Coast yet Bone Dragons are found alongside the Orrian Undead in Kryta. And Rotscale was raised near Ascalon so you have to ask how did a Krait get from the Tarnished Coast to Ascalon. The closest a Bone Dragon has been found to the Tarnished Coast is the areas around Sanctum Kay and inside the Riverside Province.

Don't think Glint would be working for Gods if she knew that was what they were up to...

Why do you say that? Its fairly easy to be a "renegade" from your family, Glint could be the same, or she might not have been really working for the gods, the term double agent comes into mind here. Or, she might not be working for the gods at all, maybe she is helping the characters because that is what the prophecy told her to do, and for the Forgotten helping Glint, maybe they are wayward from the rest of their kind which are in the Realm of Torment.

Another thought is that Glint could be working for the gods against her will. Why does Glint stay in that single shard of sand? Maybe it is a prison for her and the Forgotten are her jailers, like with Abaddon. Just a possibility that I came up with.

Also, should this be brought up, a reason for Kuunavang to help the players is to get revenge on Shiro for trying to corrupt and control her.

The whole reskin thing is the only reason why I can see the Krait and Bone Dragon connection being flawed. For the location argument, it is very easy that the Corsairs who took refuge slew some Krait Arcanoss and brought them to Orr (for a trophy or meat), seeing how the Corsairs became undead (through treachery and a deal with the Vizier), it is possible that they served the lich down there and turned some kraits into those bone dragons. The only argument against that idea other then the reskin argument would be Rotscale. I can't think of any way that would explain Rotscale being a krait, so that would ruin my theory I suppose.

Not exactly.

This passage seems to imply that while they are dragons they are entirely different from Glint of Kuunavang in power,birth and age. If Glint and Kuunavang were offspring then there would surely be more connections rather than them being dragons. What about this mysterious power the Ancients have? why dont Glint and Kuunavang have something like it? sure they are rather powerful amongst the current creatures in Tyria but they dont rival the gods themselves.

It would be interesting to know if ether of them actually knew about the Ancients. Also: are the Ancient Dragons the source of all known dragons in the guild wars world? something happened causing them to sleep until a determined time and it doesnt sound like it was forced sleep considering Primordus had plans in motion to wake up again. Did they for their last act breathe life into the dragon race?

I always figured that because Glint and Kuunavang are not as old as the Ancient Dragons, they wouldn't be as powerful. We don't know how old these ancient dragons are, maybe with dragons, the older the stronger. Also, just because Glint and Kuunavang lack a type of power doesn't mean that they are not related. Or perhaps they do have that power but are not showing it for whatever reason they have not to. I don't think they rival the gods, but I have a feeling that they act weaker then they really are (and for game purposes, they were made weak like Abaddon was).

And with your question, your basically asking if how I viewed the connection to be true, seemingly you agree with me. I never said that they were a Direct offspring. Offspring doesn't necessarily mean son or daughter, but descendant. Or at least thats how I meant it. For all we know, the Giganticus Lupicus could have been dragons as well and the direct children of the Ancient Dragons, possibly some could be parents to Glint and Kuunavang, that of course is all speculation.

Im glad someone mentioned the "Giganticus Lupicus", im no language expert but i believe the meaning to be something like giant Lizards or Serpents which to me has always said “dragon” much like Dinosaur (Terror Lizard) is used in the real World etc. So I would Guess Primordus and his Brood are the GL’s who vanished from the world Long ago.

The reason it has been said the Gods don’t know of them could be perhaps that that the current gods were not gods of that time (much like Koromir is a current god now but wasn’t Pre-Nightfall) as it is unknown what knowledge gets passed on in the “replacing.”

the bone dragons might have to drag themselves around instead of flying since they don't have flesh on their wings, they just have the skeletal bones. unless they have a specific magical ability to fly just by will and not by the physical properties of wings, bone dragons won't be able to fly.

I've always thought of Bone Dragons as being more of a bone golem made to look like a dragon instead of a re-animated Dragon.

That could very well be the case. However i still think Bone Dragons were originally a lesser species or should i say a sub species of dragon.

Actually i was talking about the subspecies of dragon found around the area. I suppose Kuunavang has been given no real origin but Glint has been stated to be created by the gods. Until it is stated that this was a lie, this origin still stands.

It has been stated that the order of whisper olds the only true history of Tyria, the one we know being half-lies,half-truth. The true history will be used to overwrite illogical lore concerning (I guess) the gods/dragon background.
When that is we may learn a relation between Koonavung(sp?), Glint and the Dragon. But untill then the only infos we have state that Glint is a creation of the gods, everything else we have seen so far is speculation.

Concerning Rotscale's animation, where did you take that rotscale was first animated by stone summit?



EDIT: That meakes me think that Ablax is not so special for a Saltspray, he would simply be (one of) the last dragon that doesn't attack any human on sight. That would imply that any Saltspray originally had such power over daily life.

And also that Koonavung(how do you spell that???) may be much closer to the other saltspray. She was traped in jade and corupted, so she may be considered by Ablax as a Saltspray. She may be a major kind of saltspray, meaning the other would be trapped, half-corrupted or remaining unseen as far as the game goes (we after all do not see the life of every single Luxon). Or be closer to a "mother" dragon. I personally prefer to see har as a saltspray, which does not forbit the mother alternative completely.

I'm interested in the here and now fun questions, lol:
-When do we see a "mini" Glint?
-Glint vs. Kuunavang in a fight - WHO WOULD WIN! (lets see this in GW2 or something, lol)
-Necro Death skill "Summon Bone Dragon" with like restrictions as "Flesh Golem"

Bring it on!

What does any of that have to do with the GW Lore?

It was part of a very early story during the beta of GW. Whether or not it should be held as relevant today is up to whomever.

Could you cite a source? I do know that the Order of Whispers does protect certain bits of Tyrian history that others now nothing of, but I have heard nothing of them holding the "true" history of Tyria. Not that I'd doubt it if it were true, I'd just like to see a source. I searched through my copy of the Nightfall Manuscripts and couldn't find a thing mentioning anything close to what you're describing.

Edit: Mayhaps you were referring to this line from the Movement of the World article?

I believe that is what Steps meant, however, that is true records of human history, not Tyrian history. There is a difference. Also, if that is not what was meant, the Order of Whispers probably wouldn't have the true history anyways as the organization was founded during the time of Joko's defeat, so unless they stole all the knowledge from the Domain of Secrets or something (which is possible) they would have the same knowledge that would be in historians' access.

The Order of Whispers are humans.They hold the only history recorded because the flood wiped out most other areas holding this history. So they hold the history we infact have right now (of course their version will have everything from Kormirs ascension to the Dragons appearence)- the history that says Glint was created by the gods. So i'm not exactly sure where your going with that.

Also Rotscales animation story was like GmrLeon said in the betas. I took that as its main origin since it doesnt seem to have been given a new story.

You remember they protect certain bits, we probably are talking abou the same thing. Tought I remember understanding it as they would edit some part of the lore. And so far I don't see a strong reason to put the knowledge we have now in the hand of the order of whisper exclusively.
I cannot cite a source, but I remember that info was part of the first wave of info released about the lore after GW1, I think from the PC gamer magazine.
I will check if I can find online pages from that time to clean this up.

Thats the section on the Order of Whispers. For future reference the Guild Wars 2 wiki holds the article, "The Movement of the World" which includes the bits on the Dragons. The original page on PC Gamer has gone AWOL.

*sigh* I guess the Movement of the world is what I remember.
Either way that would make the situation easier : we know that Glint was created by the gods. One less scaly friend to look after.

I want to know why the Rotscale is guarding that house? And the Rotscale is the hardest to kill. Glint is surely very easy... is the Rotscale actualy a re-animated Glint? because, you know... we killed her when we stole her egg, yet she re-appears in ghost form all the time and asks us to do stuff for her.... where is she leading us?

That "house" is - at least believed - to be the tomb that the Scepter of Orr was kept before the White Mantle found it. Rotscale cannot be a re-animated Glint because Rotscale was created in Ascalon by the Stone Summit - in accordance to the Beta that is. And that "ghost" form of glint is her Avatar, not an actual ghost.

Glint is not killed lore-wise, only in the bonus. She is very much alive by the time of EN even. And if you don't know where she "leads" the characters, I think you need to re-watch the ending cinematic for Hell's Precipice (the last mission in the game) and then read the dialogues for the quests she gives after you beat that mission. Also, the cinematic when entering her room in Dragon's Lair mission also explains where she is "leading" the players.

That actually isn't the tomb where the Scepter of Orr was found. If you watch the cutscene at the end of the Gates of Kryta mission closely, you can see these red "flies" flying around the little tomb and, I think, a bit of light coming through the trees.This cannot be seen where Rotscale resides.

Also, if they had taken the Scepter from that tomb, you would see them right down at least two flights of steps and across a small bridge, which you do not see.

I've tried to check out most, if not all, areas shown in the cutscenes in Prophecies. Assuming you don't go there to trigger the cutscene yourself, of course.

I know GmrLeon, thats why I said "believed" to be the tomb . I never thought it to be the place.

This is an interesting disscusson, I only have one question. In NF, Goren comes across a dragon egg, tries to store it in the Xunlai Vault, then is banned from ever using them again. So he goes to the Hidden City of A---- and the egg hatches. Not, every time I go there, I see this baby dragon. How does this fit into this discussion

Considering its a Saltspray Dragon that appears, and Elona doesnt have any native Saltspray Dragons in the 4 regions we see, its possible someone brought the dragon over and Goren somehow got hold of it. But like Albax its of no real importance and seems to be one of a few dragons that dont appear hostile.

Well, aside from the living dragons, there are a few "dead" or "sleeping" ones I've seen around, one inbetween Grothmar wardowns and Dalada Uplands, the one at the bottom of the frozen lake in Drakar Lake, the one in the Great Destroyer's chamber, there's a very, very large very long dragon in the Underworld, on the path where all the obsidian behemoths are it coils around and into the mountains. I haven't noticed one as part of the landscape of the tarnished coast yet, but there are some very large bones in the chrystal desert....

Crystal Desert bones are guessed to be from the Giganticus Lupicus (The Great Giants).

The Underworld dragons were twin brothers who challenged grenth and lost, how you see them is their punishment.

The one outside Grothmar Wardowns, nicknamed Grothmar due to location, is suspected to be one of the Ancient Dragons, the "Water Dragon" that flies south and corrupts the land under it, landing in the Crystal Desert.

The dragon in Drakkar Lake, nicknamed Drakkar, is highly suspected to be the Dragon of Ice and Snow that pushes the Norn south.

The dragon in the Great Destroyer's chamber, Primordus, the "leader" of the dragons. First to awaken of the Ancient dragons and the only one we know the name of. This dragon is what created the Great Destroyer.

There is also a "Deep Sea Dragon," that is sleeping under the water between Cantha and Tyria/Elona, and an "Undead Dragon," that is sleeping under Orr. These two are not noticeable in the game.

Those are the dragons i mention in the Ancient Dragons passage. The ones in the Underworld are not actually dragons hence i didnt mention them. The bones are suspected to be Giganicus Lupicus. Its still up to speculation if the GL and Ancient Dragons are the same or just creatures from a long passed era (since it is mentioned the Dragons stretch further back into prehistory)

I will be adding pictures of the 3 dragons that can be seen aswell as the references in various areas of the world of Tyria.

Here is my theory about Kuunavang:

Points to be considered:

- During the dragon festival, the emperor reveals the origins of the event where a celestial dragon answered the prayers of an emperor and helped him unite Cantha. Hence came its name: the Empire of the Dragon.

- Kuunavang, and all the saltspray dragons - which became maddened by the jade wind- closely resemble the celestial dragon we encounter at Naphui Quarter.

- Kuunavang is actually capable of granting celestial skills.

- Kuunavang is revered in Cantha.

Hence it is my assumption that at least Kuunavang is somehow linked to the celestial dragon mentioned during the event; either a descendant or itself? Celestial beings obviously can be corrupted, again by testimony from the Oracle:
Suun: "Kai Jun Don, the Kirin. The embodiment of corruption."
Suun: "The being of pure good, turned to pure evil."
So it is acceptable that a powerful envoy as Shiro could corrupt it.

Mark, the problem with that theory, although good points, is that the name of the Celestial Dragon is said in the very mission you quoted, by the ery same person.

So being the same being isn't really possible, and I don't think a Celestial can create other beings that are not celestials themselves (although it is possible I suppose). Only possible reference to one of the Celestials creating non-celestial beings would be the Canthan New Year events.

Oh I was not referring to Kuunavang being the celestial dragon mentioned in the mission. I was implying she MAY be the one mentioned by the emperor or related to it.

When discussing the celestials in Nahpui Quarter, it is worth mentioning that each of them actually represents a Canthan that was in some way significant to Canthan history. Tahmu, for instance, was a Canthan empress who called down the celestial dragon to defend Kaineng in much the same way, and with greater success, as Adelburn is going to do for Ascalon.

The "atrocity, pain and anguish" that the constellation is a reminder of referred to is the situation that caused her to do so in the first place. Since the threat was from Naga, which were at least less hostile before the Jade Wind and nearly extinct afterwards, it seems likely that this event was actually in relatively recent history, after the appearance commemorated by the Dragon Festival.

The point being, however, that each appearance of the Celestial Dragon seems to be to act as a benefactor of Cantha - however, this means that the situations in which it needs to appear tend to be dire indeed.

Regarding the place of dragons in the world: My suspicion is that while Glint may be related to the Tyrian Ancient Dragons, the dragons of Tyria and Cantha are seperate (possibly related, but certainly different species and probably genus as well). It's possible they all arose in Cantha and those that would evolve into the Ancient Dragons went north, or maybe they evolved separately from some common ancestor native to both continents.

When the gods arrived, the Ancient Dragons (with the possible exception of the young Glint, if she's one of them) fought, while those of Cantha didn't. Possibly the original Celestial Dragon is the Canthan equivalent of the Ancient Dragons and decided not to fight. As a result, most of the true dragons in Tyria ended up being slain, and those that were too powerful to be killed were either trapped or went into hibernation to escape by choice. During EOTN, something appears to have made Primordus aware that the gods weren't physically present on the world any more, so he's starting his bid for reclaiming the world.

It's interesting that the Destroyers seemed to get to Glint's hidden lair, but they didn't spill out in non-EOTN locations. This could be because there were other Destroyer outbreaks we didn't see, but it could also indicate that the Destroyers sent to Glint's lair were a special effort - possibly to punish a traitor?

The Canthan dragons, for whatever reason, chose not to fight, and instead seemed to adopt themselves as guardians over Canthan humanity until they, along with the dragon turtles and most of the kirin encountered by the players, were corrupted by the Jade Wind. Since there's no specific mention of Kuunavang and Albax in the lore, my suspicion is that they just happened to be the most powerful of the Saltsprays - the latter of which managed to resist the effect of the Jade Wind, while the former either resisted and was corrupted directly by Shiro afterwards, or was overwhelmed by being at ground zero when it happened.

I know that you were not connecting Kuunavang to Tah Mu, however, I was implying that the Celestial Dragon the emperor mentioned was Tah Mu. As there is probably just one Celestial of each animal, may be wrong though, as we never really see more then one "Celestial Pig" or "Celestial Rat," or even the four in the missions (minis don't count as real celestials as far as I'm concerned and those "copies" we fight in the mission are not Celestials, as Adept Nai said, they are just duplicates).

Also note that a possible argument against what I'm saying is that we kill Tah Mu, this is incorrect as we just kill a representation of it, at least according to Suun (and I think he knows his stuff). I suppose we will have to wait for the Year of the Dragon to come by in order to tell who is the real Celestial Dragon that the emperor mentioned, as I assume that the Celestial Dragon to come by that year will be the same (if GW1 even lasts that long and GW2 does have Cantha sometime before then).

It seems Tahmu was human at one point:

"The Dragon, a reminder of atrocity, pain, and anguish.

Tahmu was an empress well known for her generosity and kind spirit. The people of her lands were all her children, and she made sure none went without food and shelter. When the Naga attacked, her private guards urged her to flee the city that she might save her own life. But Tahmu would not abandon her children. She called to her people to take up arms and defend themselves against the Naga, and she herself went into the streets to do battle. Unfortunately, the Naga overpowered Tahmu and her people, keeping her alive to witness the torture and murder of every single person in the city. Enraged beyond reason, she managed to break from her bonds and call down fire from the heavens, which streaked through the streets in the form of a dragon, incinerating the Naga attackers. "

I believe the Celestials were indeed the real Celestials since the Adept does mention he has summoned them down. However it sounds like you cant really destroy a Celestial since once they are destroyed their essence divides and eventually returns to the stars. It should also be noted that every Celestial we have encountered (Chong and the Celestial Rat are unknown) were once human hence Kuunavang could not of been related anyway.

Year of the Dragon is unfortunatly 2012.

Besides, Cantha probably does not want the Dragon getting upset about being fed the same food as every celestial to descend before it since the Pig...

I was doing Sunjiang District mission when I came across this, a stone dragon in the floor. It may be nothing but I thought I'd just share it with you