For example, here's an arguable list of the imba builds for each profession. Some have none, others almost break the game. Sure, we have Ursan, but I think if we're going to have these kinds of builds, they should at least be profession specific.
Warrior: SY Dragon Slash
Ranger: None
Monk: None
Elementalist: ER Prot Monk
Necromancer: Sabway/3 Necroway (only applies in teams)
Mesmer: None
Assassin: Perma SF
Ritualist: None
Dervish: None
Paragon: Imbagon
5 professions currently have staggering powerful builds - what about the other 5? Well, fair enough, it'll soon be only 4 or even 3 Imba professions (if SF and ER get nerfed), but the imbalance in class is huge now. In terms of PvE power, the professions could be put in this order:
Imbalanced Tier - using these builds/professions will almost guarantee victory.
Assassin - SF build is like entering a cheat code.
Paragon/Warrior - Imbagons and SYDS Warriors are, again, a cheat code.
Elementalist: ER gives the most powerful protection monk in the game, and with Mind Blast they have formidable nuking power.
Necromancer - 3 Necro heroes combined with one of the above and HM becomes a joke.
Mediocre Tier
Monk - Conventional teams require them, though has no single build to compare with the above in terms of damage reduction/prevention.
Dervish - Probably the highest melee damage in the game with AoHM, though overshadowed by the "SY" warrior for utility.
Ritualist - A reasonable choice for average nuking and healing power, though again, there's nothing on the same level as the Imba tier.
Obsolete Tier
Mesmer - Absolutely useless. Relies on PvE skills to be the center of their build to do anything useful to the team. The use of [Assassin's Promise] effectively and in some parts of PvE may redeem them slightly, but not enough to rise into Mediocre.
Ranger - Can interrupt and daze. Excellent, what else? ... That's it. They scratch enemies slightly with comparably underpowered skills like [Barrage], and their best skill is [Distracting Shot] or [Broad Head Arrow]. My ranger is my main and I can hardly play him any more - he's just too weak.
The most powerful PvE Builds - why don't some professions have any?
mazza558
Neo Nugget
Rangers/rits have splinter barrage.(barrage isn't underpowered IMO >.>)
Just because they aren't used in HA or to solo something doesn't mean they are really good.
Just because they aren't used in HA or to solo something doesn't mean they are really good.
Painbringer
MONK 55 backbone for many people... at least to farm
mrbilzor
It's almost like Warriors and Paragons do the most damage and have the most armor.
And Mesmers and Rangers don't do a lot of damage, but can interrupt and shutdown.
/notsigned
And Mesmers and Rangers don't do a lot of damage, but can interrupt and shutdown.
/notsigned
romeus petrus
Splinter barrage on a rit primary with a dedicated puller/tank yields insane AoE dmg. Ranger primaries can dish out some decent dmg output as well, just less than a rit. If anything rits are overpowered.
Bryant Again
"Why don't some professions have any"? Because the game isn't properly balanced.
Sora267
You're probably not playing them right if you think Mesmers are useless and Monks and Dervs are mediocre.
lord of all tyria
If anything, this thread fails.
AscalonWarrior
Well, Monks do have HB and stuff, they are the backbone of teams I'd say.
Miska Bow
First i only play Ranger and what i know about other profession comes from my knowledge of my heroes.
Mesmer are deadly against foes. I got my Gwen set up as a caster killer. In HM in the Boreas Seabed HM i just lock her onto the Kraken and sit.
For Destroyers, no SS necro can come close to the anti-phys-foe skills of Norgu.
Ranger cant deal dmg? All those Conjures, weapon spells, conditions spamming...
All classes have weakness and strenght, dont judge a class by a few builds they use. Most of all, GW is more about synergy then a few overpowered build.
Mesmer are deadly against foes. I got my Gwen set up as a caster killer. In HM in the Boreas Seabed HM i just lock her onto the Kraken and sit.
For Destroyers, no SS necro can come close to the anti-phys-foe skills of Norgu.
Ranger cant deal dmg? All those Conjures, weapon spells, conditions spamming...
All classes have weakness and strenght, dont judge a class by a few builds they use. Most of all, GW is more about synergy then a few overpowered build.
Mark Nevermiss
Trapping on rangers can be also considered "almost" cheating :P
mazza558
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Neo Nugget
Rangers/rits have splinter barrage.(barrage isn't underpowered IMO >.>)
Just because they aren't used in HA or to solo something doesn't mean they are really good. |
As for mesmers, the most powerful argument against them is that why disable foes when they're dead 3 seconds later? Maybe they're useful in specific areas against a specific foe, but they fail otherwise.
By mediocre, I mean compared to the imba tier. There is no way any of the professions in the mediocre tier can compete with those above them, simply due to the imba builds themselves. Monks are still at the top of the mediocre tier because they are very powerful healers.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miska Bow
First i only play Ranger and what i know about other profession comes from my knowledge of my heroes.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miska Bow
Mesmer are deadly against foes. I got my Gwen set up as a caster killer. In HM in the Boreas Seabed HM i just lock her onto the Kraken and sit.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miska Bow
For Destroyers, no SS necro can come close to the anti-phys-foe skills of Norgu.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miska Bow
Ranger cant deal dmg? All those Conjures, weapon spells, conditions spamming...
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miska Bow
All classes have weakness and strenght, dont judge a class by a few builds they use. Most of all, GW is more about synergy then a few overpowered build.
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Tyla
Warrior: SY D-Slash / Earth Shaker
Ranger: Broad Head Arrow
Monk: WoH Hybrid
Necro: Anything. Infinite energy rocks.
Mesmer: Off the top of my head, Me/A CoP Nuker
Elementalist: Ether Renewal
Ritualist: Splinter Weapon and Ancestor's Rage say hi.
Dervish: AoM / Wounding Strike.
Assassin: Perma SF / MSDB
Paragon: Imbagon.
I lol'd. You insult me.
Volley and Splinter Weapon on an off character is good. Sloth Hunter's Shot is awesome.
As for Ritualists in the OP, not on imbalanced tier? They do the most AoE damage through support in the game, and Splinter aswell as Ancestors are actually overpowered.
Ranger: Broad Head Arrow
Monk: WoH Hybrid
Necro: Anything. Infinite energy rocks.
Mesmer: Off the top of my head, Me/A CoP Nuker
Elementalist: Ether Renewal
Ritualist: Splinter Weapon and Ancestor's Rage say hi.
Dervish: AoM / Wounding Strike.
Assassin: Perma SF / MSDB
Paragon: Imbagon.
Quote:
| Ranger - Can interrupt and daze. Excellent, what else? ... That's it. They scratch enemies slightly with comparably underpowered skills like [barrage], and their best skill is [distracting shot] or [broad head arrow]. My ranger is my main and I can hardly play him any more - he's just too weak. |
Volley and Splinter Weapon on an off character is good. Sloth Hunter's Shot is awesome.
As for Ritualists in the OP, not on imbalanced tier? They do the most AoE damage through support in the game, and Splinter aswell as Ancestors are actually overpowered.
cyvil
Save yourselves with Barrage seems to work pretty well for me. When a bunch of baddies are there, SY recharges very quickly. When there are not a bunch of baddies, you really don't need it.
I think saying that a ranger is too weak is not correct. I would tend to agree more if you had said that the Ranger is not as powerful as some of the other classes. Even then, not every class fares as well in every area. I think that Rangers can be particularly effective in HM where the elementalist baddies tend to cook most other classes pretty well. Dwarven Stability, the appropriate mantra(s) for the area and the extra armor against elemental damage make my ranger a decent tank in most situations, and the best one in others.
I guess if you truly think (and I may just have misinterpreted your post) that all a ranger can do is interrupt and daze, you might consider experimenting with a few more builds. Imba? probably not, but they are still very good in many roles, in many situations.
I think saying that a ranger is too weak is not correct. I would tend to agree more if you had said that the Ranger is not as powerful as some of the other classes. Even then, not every class fares as well in every area. I think that Rangers can be particularly effective in HM where the elementalist baddies tend to cook most other classes pretty well. Dwarven Stability, the appropriate mantra(s) for the area and the extra armor against elemental damage make my ranger a decent tank in most situations, and the best one in others.
I guess if you truly think (and I may just have misinterpreted your post) that all a ranger can do is interrupt and daze, you might consider experimenting with a few more builds. Imba? probably not, but they are still very good in many roles, in many situations.
mazza558
Quote:
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Originally Posted by cyvil
I guess if you truly think (and I may just have misinterpreted your post) that all a ranger can do is interrupt and daze, you might consider experimenting with a few more builds. Imba? probably not, but they are still very good in many roles, in many situations.
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Targren
If you think Perma-SF is "godmode for PvE" you should really try it. It sucks. It's a farming and limited running build.
mazza558
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Targren
If you think Perma-SF is "godmode for PvE" you should really try it. It sucks. It's a farming and limited running build.
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lord of all tyria
C'mon guys, we all know PvE needs to be easier.
Sab
While you can argue specifics, some classes are more powerful than others because the devs are very bad at balancing.
EroChrono
Who cares some professions might not have optimal über PvE builds?
I *nearly* always PvE with H/H, and frankly I don't need to run the most optimal build in order to succeed. Yes, maybe it takes a bit longer, and maybe you do screw up occassionaly. But you set your heroes up with some good builds, and pick whatever is fun to play yourself.
Perhaps my mesmer isn't to most contributing member of the team, but makes the game fun to play.
I *nearly* always PvE with H/H, and frankly I don't need to run the most optimal build in order to succeed. Yes, maybe it takes a bit longer, and maybe you do screw up occassionaly. But you set your heroes up with some good builds, and pick whatever is fun to play yourself.
Perhaps my mesmer isn't to most contributing member of the team, but makes the game fun to play.
Voodoo Rage
Two words: Touch Ranger
You can close the thread now.
You can close the thread now.
odly
Quote:
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Originally Posted by mazza558
Paragon - Imbagons are, a cheat code.
Mesmer - Absolutely useless. Relies on PvE skills to be the center of their build to do anything useful to the team. |
Edited to make it look more funny since I cannot consider you're being serious.
payne
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bryant Again
"Why don't some professions have any"? Because the game isn't properly balanced.
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gimme a damn cookie
Miska Bow
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sab
While you can argue specifics, some classes are more powerful than others because the devs are very bad at balancing.
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Jetdoc
It's because many players don't have the incentive/ability to create extremely powerful builds, so they stick with the 4-5 that are out there that the few truly creative players decided to create.
Personally, my Rt/E is my most powerful character based on a build that I created from scratch (and alter to meet the current PvE challenge I'm facing), and she can accomplish what Perma SF's and 55 Monks can only dream of doing.
Personally, my Rt/E is my most powerful character based on a build that I created from scratch (and alter to meet the current PvE challenge I'm facing), and she can accomplish what Perma SF's and 55 Monks can only dream of doing.
mazza558
Quote:
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Originally Posted by odly
Edited to make it look more funny since I cannot consider you're being serious. |
Thought so.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jetdoc
Personally, my Rt/E is my most powerful character based on a build that I created from scratch, and alter to meet the current PvE challenge I'm facing, and can accomplish what Perma SF's and 55 Monks can only dream of doing.
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RiKio
[Infuriating Heat]+["Save Yourselves!"]+[Volley]= Lol@ SY Warriors&Imbagons
Who said rangers were not OP?
Who said rangers were not OP?
BlackSephir
Perma SF? Don't make me laff! That build is only good for farming. Perma SF wouldn suck in every area that has signets/pbaoe/touch skills.
MS/DB on the other hand is pretty sexy ~~
MS/DB on the other hand is pretty sexy ~~
RavagerOfDreams
[Healers Boon]?
1212121212121212
1212121212121212
Gregslot
Mesmers have [skill]Signet of illusion[/skill] [skill]cry of pain[/skill] [skill]Ether Nightmare[/skill]
Play with these 3 skills and any other spell and you have it all at maximum.
This thread is about one player that really havent played with all professions. So its a "fail"
Play with these 3 skills and any other spell and you have it all at maximum.
This thread is about one player that really havent played with all professions. So its a "fail"
kostolomac
Mesmer are OK in pve , but compared to other classes they can't get the status of powerful. If SF got a nerf sins would be in the same boat as them.
upier
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gregslot
Mesmers have [skill]Signet of illusion[/skill] ...
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AP nuking = good.
Anything else = good thing that PvE leaves room for error.
Tyla
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gregslot
Mesmers have [skill]Signet of illusion[/skill] [skill]cry of pain[/skill] [skill]Ether Nightmare[/skill]
Play with these 3 skills and any other spell and you have it all at maximum. This thread is about one player that really havent played with all professions. So its a "fail" |
Rakim B
I'm pretty sure there's a monk in every party. Monks>Everything else
Also, this thread is a joke
Also, this thread is a joke
kostolomac
Only two things count for effectiveness in pve:
1. The ability to easy lower the red bars of monsters
2. The ability to prevent lowering the red bars of fellow players
Some classes are not designed to do these two things by rolling your head over a keyboard , and require some skill to use , and while they should be more powerful since they are a bit more harder to use , they are screwed up.
1. The ability to easy lower the red bars of monsters
2. The ability to prevent lowering the red bars of fellow players
Some classes are not designed to do these two things by rolling your head over a keyboard , and require some skill to use , and while they should be more powerful since they are a bit more harder to use , they are screwed up.
Tyla
^
And that's why some classes are deemed less effective in PvE e.g Mesmer.
The design of PvE is flawed in the case of the Mesmer. You can just say CoP, or whatever Mesmer skill deals damage, but the point is those skills are either nothing but a bandaid, or something that is additional but less effective compared to other methods of dealing damage that adds onto the original design of the Mesmer itself: Shutting things down, mainly single targets and skills like Diversion. Other professions can use their other benefits such as interrupting e.g Paragon because of it's energy management. Single target shutdown just deems less effective in PvE.
It isn't the players to blame. It's the design of both the Mesmer and the PvE side of the game to blame.
And that's why some classes are deemed less effective in PvE e.g Mesmer.
The design of PvE is flawed in the case of the Mesmer. You can just say CoP, or whatever Mesmer skill deals damage, but the point is those skills are either nothing but a bandaid, or something that is additional but less effective compared to other methods of dealing damage that adds onto the original design of the Mesmer itself: Shutting things down, mainly single targets and skills like Diversion. Other professions can use their other benefits such as interrupting e.g Paragon because of it's energy management. Single target shutdown just deems less effective in PvE.
It isn't the players to blame. It's the design of both the Mesmer and the PvE side of the game to blame.
Horus
ALL professions have [Ursan Blessing]
Hania
You ever tried the Vengeful Spirit Bonder? 330 Ritualist, VwK/smiting skills. Can farm many places including UW HM. And what about Ritual Lord? Kinda strong. And Mesmers rock, can do anything (maybe except healing
).
Master Ketsu
This looks strikingly similar to the tier lists of fighting games made in early stages. The OP looks more like a list of "Easiest to play effectively to least easiest to play effectively" then a list of "most effective to least effective".
But the point is valid. Part of the problem with PVE is not so much class design as it is monster and level design. If it was a class problem the same thing would show in PVP, it does not. The only reason pve is about "lowering red bars and preventing the lowering of yours" is because the builds that the monsters have been given do the same thing...players can win against this by simply "outsmashing" the enemy with stronger builds.
If monsters were given more intuitive bars, like players bring on their mesmers to PVP, the problem would be much less. If monsters actually had decent skill bars and walked in more balanced packs it would be much more worth it to bring a "disruptor" type.
But the point is valid. Part of the problem with PVE is not so much class design as it is monster and level design. If it was a class problem the same thing would show in PVP, it does not. The only reason pve is about "lowering red bars and preventing the lowering of yours" is because the builds that the monsters have been given do the same thing...players can win against this by simply "outsmashing" the enemy with stronger builds.
If monsters were given more intuitive bars, like players bring on their mesmers to PVP, the problem would be much less. If monsters actually had decent skill bars and walked in more balanced packs it would be much more worth it to bring a "disruptor" type.
Master Necromanz
And the necro have AP necro with Mark of Pain etc... It really owns and it's really powerful with a defensive anthem, minion bomber and n/rt healer.
NOT ONLY sabway is strong by necro, the hexes are also strong... SS, RH, PoF, SoF etc... Also EB is really strong in HM.
So before you start, such a tread like this one, you should have played alot with all chars.
Thank you.
NOT ONLY sabway is strong by necro, the hexes are also strong... SS, RH, PoF, SoF etc... Also EB is really strong in HM.
So before you start, such a tread like this one, you should have played alot with all chars.
Thank you.