Rank means nothing.
Means nothing in pvp.
Especially means nothing in pve.
If we are talking about skill that is.
Does rank mean anything to you?
kostolomac
romeus petrus
PvP rank means experience (not skill)
PvE rank doesnt mean squad usually unless you're doing something like HM DoA and need a high rank norn for ursanway.
PvE rank doesnt mean squad usually unless you're doing something like HM DoA and need a high rank norn for ursanway.
Ate of DK
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Originally Posted by Just Another Chest Runner
i'm pretty sure that if someone who had a gold cape but unranked (assuming they didnt buy a spot in the guild) tried to join a group, you'd probably take them
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PvE ranks mean absolutely nothing. Either they can be done AFK, bought or grinded by bots.
PvP ranks tell you how mcuh time someone spend on a partiucular part of the PvP-world.
Both mean nothing when it comes to player skill. There are probably PvE only players that have more understanding of the game than several top 50 guilds players who are nothing but fill-up for the team and listen to those two people that tell what is good and bad.
Angel Killuminati
On certain maps in Alliance Battles, I tend to look for rank 7 plus, basically because it's in the enemies favor, hence you needing a good team that actually has experience of capping quickly and not constantly running into mobs etc. So yes, in certain instances I do think rank is important. PVE titles no, but some PVP titles yes of course. It's down to experience!
Angelina Collins
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Originally Posted by Lykan
HA isnt about follwing orders its knowing what to do without being told, If I was running a pug and I had to tell everybody what to do the whole time my head would explode.
I've won halls with random byob without vent without anyone calling strats simply because everyone in the team knew what to do. In HA experience > All |
In my guild we take the time to teach players how to play, yes it takes time, and yes we don't always win, but the players enjoy themselves, and that is what is importain, not winning. Besides how is anyone going to gain experience if noone wants to give them a chance.
Taurucis
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Originally Posted by around
This is speaking from a player who only has r3, but has been r3 for over two years:
The very first time I did any sort of serious PvP, it was making my own RSpike group wayyyy back when it was first meta. Never mind the fact that I had no experience, nor had I any idea what the hell I was doing. I knew I was shit so I advertised for unranked, knowing that I wouldn't get any good players to play with me. I still had fun though, mainly because my expectations were so much lower. I considered it a good run if we made it past UW. I giggled whenever we 321'd someone cleanly. More importantly, I made friends and developed a friends list who I would regularly ask to play with me. This lead on to a bunch of us forming our own guild, all because I had a friends list, and that was pretty much what set me on the course to being a hard, bitter PvP'r. tl;dr stop being lazy and make friends - also, you're shit and you should be fully aware of your shitness. |
HA is the giant bucket of contradiction. You need a good team to win. You need fame to get a good team. You need to win to get fame. See where it's going?
I don't know how many times I've said this, but it's not easy as finding a guild that is willing to teach you.
95% of the pvp guilds recruiting in GTOB either want ranked people, or the ones who aren't looking for ranked people fall apart within 2 or 3 days.
around
No, some noobs team up with other noobs and learn together, using their own initiative.
It's hard work this thinking business.
It's hard work this thinking business.
Avarre
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Originally Posted by Taurucis
Perfect example of why PvP players annoy me, their outright arrogance and "I'm better than you" attitude.
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I'll say what I said before: 'I'm good, I just don't have rank', 'rank is just arrogance', a lot from lower rank players, but I've never seen a player who said that follow it up with play that is on the level of a ranked player.
around
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| Perfect example of why PvP players annoy me, their outright arrogance and "I'm better than you" attitude. |
Or, you know, stop letting everything get to you. The day something someone says to me on the internet gets to me is the day I'll unplug myself, and it hasn't happened yet.
When I started HA, I was under no illusions that I was good. I didn't have a good team, I didn't expect to win. But my friends list and I learnt together, and eventually we were pulling together longer streaks (ie more than 3 fame). Some of them even got into r6/9 groups and won Halls. They all started off at the same time as me, all unranked.
Am I better than you? At PvP yes, and I don't feel the need to justify this. IT might not make me a better person, but it makes me more qualified to talk about PvP matters.
Taurucis
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Originally Posted by around
No, some noobs team up with other noobs and learn together, using their own initiative.
It's hard work this thinking business. |
The little ideal world about noobs learning together is all in your imagination.
Quote:
| Strictly speaking, considering you apparently don't PvP, he is better than you as far as PvP goes (you know, the topic of this discussion? |
I probably could get back into HA if I wanted to, but well, I don't want to. There's too many idiots, too much elitism, too many little kids. If I'm going to seriously pick up a game, I'm going to pick up a game that doesn't suck... HoMM3 anyone?
However I don't feel the need to talk crap about other people just because I worked for my rank - unlike most PvP players.
pumpkin pie
lol, talk about kurzik/luxon rank, I usually don't show my rank (don't check the box) in AB, the other day, i was kicked from a team of rank 2-4 for being rank less.... I know, cos one guy say right in my presense, something like, get the rank 4 over there, then he ping ping I am following so and so... blah blah follow by a kick, I have better rank then them by 3-4 lol .... just imagine what a rank-less player must have gone thru, well, actually, I know the feeling, try standing in HA, used to be you can still find a pug group, now there's practically no one to pug with anymore in HA
Taurucis
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| I'll say what I said before: 'I'm good, I just don't have rank', 'rank is just arrogance', a lot from lower rank players, but I've never seen a player who said that follow it up with play that is on the level of a ranked player. |
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Or, you know, stop letting everything get to you. The day something someone says to me on the internet gets to me is the day I'll unplug myself, and it hasn't happened yet. When I started HA, I was under no illusions that I was good. I didn't have a good team, I didn't expect to win. But my friends list and I learnt together, and eventually we were pulling together longer streaks (ie more than 3 fame). Some of them even got into r6/9 groups and won Halls. They all started off at the same time as me, all unranked. Am I better than you? At PvP yes, and I don't feel the need to justify this. IT might not make me a better person, but it makes me more qualified to talk about PvP matters. |
It doesn't really matter to me if you're better at PvP, saying "I can trash talk people on an online game because I can PvP!" won't help me get a job. Being a good person will.
Free Sigils
The difference between a Noob and an inexperienced player:
A noob goes to id1 and says "omgwtf no one will play with me even tho I'm rlly rlly gud." then they get a guru account, post a QQ fest and cut themselves and then go farm DoA again because PvPers are mean.
Hell yes we are. Thats why its called PvP. There are no monsters to aggro, no chests to run, no ectos. Its a competetition between people, and frankly no one wants to loose. Ha is so full of grudges and rivalries that one loose to someone you know can dog you for weeks.
An inexperienced player goes to id1 and can't find a group, so he finds his own.He gets a guru account and finds players and guilds that are at his level. He begs, bribes, and bargains with high rank players, and earns every piece of that 180 fame. By that time he has friends and he is beginning to get the big picture of HA and he has no where to go but up.
The vast majority of ranked HA players fought tooth, nail, and claw for their rank. Don't expect us to feel sorry for you when we had to do the same thing too. Yes I know HA is smaller than it once was and less active, but its still there you just have to be willing to work.
Make friends its the only way to get into real HA. Its the only way there ever has been.
A noob goes to id1 and says "omgwtf no one will play with me even tho I'm rlly rlly gud." then they get a guru account, post a QQ fest and cut themselves and then go farm DoA again because PvPers are mean.
Hell yes we are. Thats why its called PvP. There are no monsters to aggro, no chests to run, no ectos. Its a competetition between people, and frankly no one wants to loose. Ha is so full of grudges and rivalries that one loose to someone you know can dog you for weeks.
An inexperienced player goes to id1 and can't find a group, so he finds his own.He gets a guru account and finds players and guilds that are at his level. He begs, bribes, and bargains with high rank players, and earns every piece of that 180 fame. By that time he has friends and he is beginning to get the big picture of HA and he has no where to go but up.
The vast majority of ranked HA players fought tooth, nail, and claw for their rank. Don't expect us to feel sorry for you when we had to do the same thing too. Yes I know HA is smaller than it once was and less active, but its still there you just have to be willing to work.
Make friends its the only way to get into real HA. Its the only way there ever has been.
Avarre
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Originally Posted by Taurucis
The little ideal world about noobs learning together is all in your imagination.
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Quote:
| There's too many idiots, too much elitism, too many little kids. |
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| However I don't feel the need to talk crap about other people just because I worked for my rank - unlike most PvP players. |
I'd add that 'your rank' is less than a day's work for most ranked players, but there's really nothing that can condemn your sentence more than itself.
LifesRestorer
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Originally Posted by Taurucis
Most of them try to say "work for your fame like we worked for ours" but it's much easier said than done...
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What makes you think that YOU should be able to go straight into a nice long winning streak in HA...
So what I'm gonna say to you now is what every other person who is tired of your bitching has to say. Quit QQing about how hard it is to HA and get fame, and if you really want it, go out there, and work for your fame, just like we did, for hours on end.
around
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| The days of new players getting together and learning HA is dead, it has been dead for the past 2 and a half years. Just as gasoline for under 3 bucks is pretty much impossible to find(in the US at least, dunno about you) |
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| It doesn't really matter to me if you're better at PvP, saying "I can trash talk people on an online game because I can PvP!" won't help me get a job. Being a good person will. |
Taurucis
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Originally Posted by Avarre
I monked most of my fame, and I know I learned to monk in PvP by playing WoH for low-rank pug spike groups. Trial and error, practice in groups that didn't ask for quality, until I had contacts and the ability to play in decent groups.
Not treating bad players with the same respect and position as you treat good players isn't elitism. It's common sense in a competitive atmosphere. Oh wow. I'd add that 'your rank' is less than a day's work for most ranked players, but there's really nothing that can condemn your sentence more than itself. |
Ok, I think you're misunderstanding the last sentence.
What I am trying to say is that, unlike most PvP players who trash talk other people, I don't feel the need to do that. I worked for my rank, but I don't really brag or insult others.
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well thats the whole RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing point! we had to work hard getting the fame at the start, grinding 1-4 fame an hour, going through teams blowing up after 1 run, and yeah, IT WASNT EASY. What makes you think that YOU should be able to go straight into a nice long winning streak in HA... So what I'm gonna say to you now is what every other person who is tired of your bitching has to say. Quit QQing about how hard it is to HA and get fame, and if you really want it, go out there, and work for your fame, just like we did, for hours on end. |
tl;dr
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Originally Posted by around
Pretty sure I got my bambi less than two and a half years ago...
Pretty sure I haven't trashtalked anyone yet. When I said 'you're shit and know it', that's the truth: everyone just starting out is bound to be worse than someone who's been doing it for a while. You're not a special flower, or that mythical new yet good player, you're just another average guy and you're going to have to convince me to let you in my group (were I to HA, which I haven't done since 6v6. |
Last time I checked, telling someone that they're shit is trash talking them. It may be the truth but it is also the truth that you are trash talking them.
around
This is an entirely serious question:
if you get a low report grade from your teacher are they trashtalking you?
Also-I'll take you up on your HoMM3 offer as soon as I get back from holiday; I've never played the game before (pretty much) so you can have fun trashtalking me for once.
if you get a low report grade from your teacher are they trashtalking you?
Also-I'll take you up on your HoMM3 offer as soon as I get back from holiday; I've never played the game before (pretty much) so you can have fun trashtalking me for once.
Avarre
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Originally Posted by Taurucis
This is another fine example of a PvPer who thinks he can talk crap about everyone because he worked for his rank ~
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This is an example of an inexperienced PvP player who thinks they matter in a PvP discussion with experienced players.
Everyone started from 0 fame. Play gimmicks to get fame, get contacts, get into the game, stop trying to treat it like you play H/H PvE, and rank isn't that hard. It's slow, but it's always been that way unless you're holding during double fame weekend.
Rank only matters for PuGs, once you have contacts, all of that goes away. Suck it up.
Free Sigils
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Originally Posted by Taurucis
This is another fine example of a PvPer who thinks he can talk crap about everyone because he worked for his rank ~
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Taurucis
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Originally Posted by around
This is an entirely serious question:
if you get a low report grade from your teacher are they trashtalking you? Also-I'll take you up on your HoMM3 offer as soon as I get back from holiday; I've never played the game before (pretty much) so you can have fun trashtalking me for once. |
If he/she writes something like "You could do better - please work harder!" that's more like a suggestion... if he/she writes "You are stupid and a completely ignorant moron" then that's trash talking.
I don't think I can play HoMM3 online, I don't know how to set up games and I think my firewall blocks all incoming connections. Even then I don't really like to play competitive, each time I play hot seat with my brother we're on the same team.
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People who work for it don't have to tolerate people who won't work for it QQing and whining about how they have to work for it. We already walked this road. /Yawn. |
LifesRestorer
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Originally Posted by Taurucis
Unfortunately, most of the people who work for it feel that it is their duty to insult the lower ranked people who are trying to work for their rank as well, thus killing their motivation and making them quit.
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Maybe if you weren't such an asshole and didn't generalise a whole community with stupid claims, call everyone elitists and pretty much act like the whole world is against you, you wouldn't get reactive flames (like my post) due to anger at your rediculous posts.
Taurucis
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Originally Posted by LifesRestorer
If every unranked person acted like you i'd be happy to insult them constantly, as you're a moron. Which is probably why you've got the feeling that the PvP community hates all new pvpers and flames them on site. The plain and simple fact is that you've got a bad attitude towards the game, you moan about issues that others had to go through too and then when they tell you that EVERYONE had to do it, you QQ more.
Maybe if you weren't such an asshole and didn't generalise a whole community with stupid claims, call everyone elitists and pretty much act like the whole world is against you, you wouldn't get reactive flames (like my post) due to anger at your rediculous posts. |
Another symptom of chronic PvPitis, you spit out insults faster than a New York taxi cab driver can talk.
The game is fine, or at least it was until recently. It's the players that annoy me, which is why I almost never join groups.
Pot, meet kettle.
Tyla
You know, I met alot of good friends who helped me get more involved in terms of PvP in HA. Even playing gimmicks, they moved on to better, more advanced and more flexible builds.
It's a matter of trial and error. You get alot of knobheads in an online game anyway. It's the internet, and real life is the same. If you let things get to you you are letting nobody but yourself down.
It's a matter of trial and error. You get alot of knobheads in an online game anyway. It's the internet, and real life is the same. If you let things get to you you are letting nobody but yourself down.
komma
not a damn thing.....i chase titles im interested in as does erryone else...to each thier own imo.
Free Sigils
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Originally Posted by Taurucis
I don't really like to play competitive,
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Taurucis
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Originally Posted by Free Sigils
I found your problem. Ha is srs business. Its all about competition that is the fun in it.
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Some people, like me, don't really get their kicks from rubbing other people's faces into the dirt...
Knight O Cydonia
Even the most stubborn complainer of rank discrimination should see that in a competitive environment people will want to play with others that are of simmilar experiance / ability.
There are plenty of helpful tools (wiki, guild connections, gladiators arena) that can make the transition from R0 upwards a lot easier. You just have to stick to it if thats what you truely want to do.
I don't know why theres such a ruck over the hero title anyway, HA is 90% gimmick builds that make you want to pull your teeth out. If you truely want to get better at the game Observer Mode, and GvG are much better places to learn (as they are more like 50% gimmick builds
)
There are plenty of helpful tools (wiki, guild connections, gladiators arena) that can make the transition from R0 upwards a lot easier. You just have to stick to it if thats what you truely want to do.
I don't know why theres such a ruck over the hero title anyway, HA is 90% gimmick builds that make you want to pull your teeth out. If you truely want to get better at the game Observer Mode, and GvG are much better places to learn (as they are more like 50% gimmick builds
)
Ate of DK
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Originally Posted by Taurucis
Most of the time, some noobs team up with other noobs, get steamrolled for about two weeks straight, and quit.
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And please don't reply with: "I got tons of friends that did so!" Because that is exactly the same as the quote.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Taurucis
Actually, I do PvP, or at least I used to. I'm rank 3 as well, got most of it doing balanced with an old guild that died due to some jackass who kicked everyone out or something (see? PvP guild drama)
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Taurucis
I probably could get back into HA if I wanted to, but well, I don't want to. There's too many idiots, too much elitism, too many little kids. If I'm going to seriously pick up a game, I'm going to pick up a game that doesn't suck... HoMM3 anyone?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Taurucis
I'd rather team with an unranked player who is mature and friendly, than a ranked player who matches the Onyxia Wipe guy in terms of teamwork.
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Taurucis
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Originally Posted by Ate of DK
You have proof for this statement? I can't prove you wrong, but you can't prove me right either. Meaning that you're making up things to prove your theory for whatevery reason you can't find PvP-groups.
And please don't reply with: "I got tons of friends that did so!" Because that is exactly the same as the quote. |
I can't find PvP groups because I don't even bother. I'm not really competitive. Rank elitism annoys me because I get irritated by self-righteous people trash talking the underdogs.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ate of DK
I'm sorry to say this but... you're only r3. Anet has given people a lot of ways to farm fame. There have been builds that required no TS/vent and even too many double fame weekends. It's like Avarre allready mentioned... in the beginning the "noobs" think that rank matters until they found out themselves that they don't need to show ranks anymore when they build up their friendslist/PvP-network.
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Originally Posted by Ate of DK
To me that sounds like you know in advance that you're outclassed by r1 bunnythumpers? Besides, from the above you say that you're not gonna try to get back into bussiness. Confuses me why you are complaining then.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ate of DK
Yes, exactly my kind of thing. I have over 20.000 fame, been in 3 top 100 guilds and play this game for fun. So I ended up in friends guild a few days ago where less than half had an emote (which you allready have!). They were counting their fame after every win. Think we made about 30 fame. Playing with them was very cool and relaxing (< And relaxing is good when I wanna play a game)
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I have to say, you're one of the few ranked people I've ever seen who does not have his/her head stuck in a pickle jar.
Ate of DK
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Taurucis
Do you have proof stating that most noobs who get together and learn are always successful?
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You haven't been reading what the PvP players are telling you, have you?
1. They are all telling you that they all started with 0 fame, just like you.
2. They told you to find people that want the same as you. Create a network.
Those were the starting rules for almost every experienced PvP player. We are not making that up.
The only mistake that many new players make is that they think they can play with Real Madrid from the start when everyone started at tha backyard kicking a ball against the wall. Ofcourse Real Madrid says, kkthnxbai go do sum practice. xD
"You're allready ignoring advice from PvP players on the forum. I allready feel that good intented comments are ignored. And you want to play with "us"?" (That's how people will think, I'm only trying to help you out. That was an example.)
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Originally Posted by Taurucis
I have to say, you're one of the few ranked people I've ever seen who does not have his/her head stuck in a pickle jar.
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BlackEagle
Being a high rank doesn't make a player good, being a low rank doesn't make a player bad either. But the point is, there are more good high ranks than low ranks, so if they have no idea how good you are (ie. a pug) they're gonna want to take the safer bet and get the higher ranked person.
Also, of course there are bad high ranked players - so the people just saying: 'i saw this r10 do this and that badly so rank means nothing!' As I already said, a lot of high ranked players are bad but that doesn't mean that all high ranked players are bad, just as much as a bad unranked player makes all unranked players bad.
And everyone (except for people who HAed for the first few months after release) has been in the exact same position of needing rank to get rank and the vicious spiral. The only way you get decent rank is playing, so just go and try and play like everyone had to. The fame is really, really slow at first, but it was for everyone.
So basically, rank doesn't define if someone is good, but the reason people care about rank is that a higher ranked player is more likely to be good than a lower ranked player, and seeing as pugs want to win, they take the higher ranked players. For newer players at the end of the day you just have to keep playing if you want to get higher ranked, and if you don't want to do that, then you won't get high ranked. At the end of the day, nobody is going to give you fame on a platter because people don't care about others really, and people never did the same for them.
The best advice I can give you is to either form your own ranked groups if you aren't bad, and if you don't feel confident to do that, then just pug away as best you can until you get some semblance of an idea of what it's all about and then you can either form your own groups or join a HA orientated guild.
Also, of course there are bad high ranked players - so the people just saying: 'i saw this r10 do this and that badly so rank means nothing!' As I already said, a lot of high ranked players are bad but that doesn't mean that all high ranked players are bad, just as much as a bad unranked player makes all unranked players bad.
And everyone (except for people who HAed for the first few months after release) has been in the exact same position of needing rank to get rank and the vicious spiral. The only way you get decent rank is playing, so just go and try and play like everyone had to. The fame is really, really slow at first, but it was for everyone.
So basically, rank doesn't define if someone is good, but the reason people care about rank is that a higher ranked player is more likely to be good than a lower ranked player, and seeing as pugs want to win, they take the higher ranked players. For newer players at the end of the day you just have to keep playing if you want to get higher ranked, and if you don't want to do that, then you won't get high ranked. At the end of the day, nobody is going to give you fame on a platter because people don't care about others really, and people never did the same for them.
The best advice I can give you is to either form your own ranked groups if you aren't bad, and if you don't feel confident to do that, then just pug away as best you can until you get some semblance of an idea of what it's all about and then you can either form your own groups or join a HA orientated guild.
Snoes
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Originally Posted by Taurucis
Unfortunately most of HA is not cool and relaxing, it's all shouting and yelling and drama. And of course the post-game insults.
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I usually play in (the same) relaxing group. we lose, gg, we go again.
I've been in groups with peope yelling at eachother and groups like that
barely get fame.
Taurucis
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Originally Posted by Ate of DK
It's annoying to reply this way when I allready said that I couldn't prove you wrong either on that other statement. But oke, I'll let that pas for a second and give it a second shot.
You haven't been reading what the PvP players are telling you, have you? 1. They are all telling you that they all started with 0 fame, just like you. 2. They told you to find people that want the same as you. Create a network. Those were the starting rules for almost every experienced PvP player. You're allready ignoring advice from PvP players on the forum. I allready feel that good intented comments are ignored. And you want to play with "us"? (That's how people will think, I'm only trying to help you out) Thank you, I guess. |
2. It's hard to create a network when everyone is either A) ranked already B) stupid C) doesn't really like HA
To be honest I don't really want to HA, the very nature of PvP irritates me (beat other players down and insult them afterwards) There is a difference between "advice" and "insults"
You're a dying breed, don't let the fame go to your head.
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Can you even enjoy playing then? I usually play in (the same) relaxing group. we lose, gg, we go again. I've been in groups with peope yelling at eachother and groups like that barely get fame. |
Thizzle
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Originally Posted by Kikuta
Holy shit, you mean to tell me guilds have a use!?
 1) Find a HA guild that trains 2) Get r3+ 3) Quit bitching 4) ???? 5) PROFIT! |
Bryant Again
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Taurucis
You're a dying breed, don't let the fame go to your head.
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Taurucis
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Originally Posted by Bryant Again
PvP is a dying breed?
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What I meant is that PvPers who are polite and friendly have become a dying breed.
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Originally Posted by Thizzle
That's the worst tutorial I've ever seen. I'm not complaining because I don't know how to run a build, gimmick, or even run my own group. I'm complaining because people are such jackasses they don't even have the common courtesy. Your first step mention to find a HA guild that trains... I was pretty lost by that one because I don't think I've ever seen a guild saying "Training new HA players pm me". I think people got the wrong idea about this thread and though I was new to PvP. I been playing this game for a long time actually.
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around
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1. They seem to be telling me "you're a noob, you suck, cry more, you fail, pve noob, stop complaining" 2. It's hard to create a network when everyone is either A) ranked already B) stupid C) doesn't really like HA To be honest I don't really want to HA, the very nature of PvP irritates me (beat other players down and insult them afterwards) There is a difference between "advice" and "insults" |
Also-there is no more trashtalking in GW than in any other competitive sport (and yes, GW is, or at least was, competitive), so unless you really don't do any form of competition whatsoever, you can't really use that as an excuse.
EDIT:
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| I'm complaining because people are such jackasses they don't even have the common courtesy |
Bryant Again
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Originally Posted by Taurucis
In a way, yes, if you look at it correctly.
What I meant is that PvPers who are polite and friendly have become a dying breed. |
Sure, you may see things hostile at moments in TF2 and CS:S, but mostly things are pretty tame (although you may hear more people calling you a "hacker" in the latter). But then you get to games like WoW, Dawn of War and StarCraft and things get heated real quickly. How GW fell into the latter group is beyond me.
But PvP in itself will never die. Despite how nasty it can be, people just shrug it off and continue to play the game.
Taurucis
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Originally Posted by around
No, we're saying that you're a noob and expect to be treated as one. No-one has either attacked you directly (apart from one nutter) or said you suck (apart from you yourself). And yes, you should stop complaining, because why should you expect to be singled out for special treatment?
Also-there is no more trashtalking in GW than in any other competitive sport (and yes, GW is, or at least was, competitive), so unless you really don't do any form of competition whatsoever, you can't really use that as an excuse. |
Football is a competitive sport. You don't see teams insulting each other (that's usually what the fans do) or sabotaging each other, doing that would cause a scandal.
Look at GW PvP.. you have guild drama (like I said, the last and only PvP guild I was in fell apart because some moron was bribed to kick everyone out) and everyone insults each other like there's no tommorow. That's not competition, that's... hatred? I dunno.
@Bryant - I was thinking more along the lines of GW PvP dying.