I don't get all the teams wanting a spirit spammer, taking an extra nuker with FS is much better.
Gotta love when the warders wipe half the party with Predatory up and everyone starts crying OMG NOOB MONK.
Farm Voltaic Spear ( chest in 5min )
TurinPT
boarderx
dont forget about [snow storm] its a great addition so even the ranger can help nuke
stretchs
Have seen 6 vs drop so far in 2 days of farming this, about 30 runs i guess, so I am either lucky in seeing them, or just a coincidence. imo, the fastest runs, are 5 ele, 1 ua monk, 1 r/rt and 1 n/me. The key skill imo is on the necro being [card]Well of Profane[/card] It really does help alot for the sin and all the death novas as well as some of the other enchants used by the dwarves. As well, you get yourself more damage with 5 eles. I like having a little variety in my party using Deep Freeze on one, and I have carried Mark of Rodgort as well to help finish off some of the stragglers.
Dzjudz
Well I've done about 60-80 runs, and I've yet to see one drop!
Oh yes, and wtf is up with some sins asking for a fee? How low can you go? I made a new sin yesterday, it's lvl20 and doing the quests to get IAU already. I'm not going to charge...
Edit: ^^, where is the sin in your teambuild, the 9th member? :P
Oh yes, and wtf is up with some sins asking for a fee? How low can you go? I made a new sin yesterday, it's lvl20 and doing the quests to get IAU already. I'm not going to charge...
Edit: ^^, where is the sin in your teambuild, the 9th member? :P
lordheinous
Quote:
Originally Posted by stretchs
imo, the fastest runs, are 5 ele, 1 ua monk, 1 r/rt and 1 n/me.
That's nice and all, but 5+1+1+1=8, and theres no perma listed, so whos going to make the run? 
explodemyheart
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzjudz
Oh yes, and wtf is up with some sins asking for a fee? How low can you go? I made a new sin yesterday, it's lvl20 and doing the quests to get IAU already. I'm not going to charge...
I noticed that yesterday. I started seeing sins say "pay me 500g each or I won't go" and people justifying it with "it's only fair, they have to do all the running". To be honest, if anybody deserved to be paid, it'd be the monks. It's super nice when the idiot PUGs stand in sandstorm and churning earth and get plowed.
Anyway, when the sins can complete the entire farm by themselves, I'll start paying. Until then, they can shove it.
Anyway, when the sins can complete the entire farm by themselves, I'll start paying. Until then, they can shove it.
Dzjudz
Quote:
Originally Posted by explodemyheart
To be honest, if anybody deserved to be paid, it'd be the monks.
Don't give them any ideas
AOD_EaSyKiLL
Quote:
Originally Posted by explodemyheart
I noticed that yesterday. I started seeing sins say "pay me 500g each or I won't go" and people justifying it with "it's only fair, they have to do all the running". To be honest, if anybody deserved to be paid, it'd be the monks. It's super nice when the idiot PUGs stand in sandstorm and churning earth and get plowed.
Anyway, when the sins can complete the entire farm by themselves, I'll start paying. Until then, they can shove it. Untill you can do the run on a sin yourself, dont knock the other sins.
The sin takes all the blame for everything, and depending on the build, may use a decent amount of alcohol and/or cupcakes, just to make the run as problem free as possible. I personally dont charge, but I definately dont blame the others, especially when there is a shortage of them.
Anyway, when the sins can complete the entire farm by themselves, I'll start paying. Until then, they can shove it. Untill you can do the run on a sin yourself, dont knock the other sins.
The sin takes all the blame for everything, and depending on the build, may use a decent amount of alcohol and/or cupcakes, just to make the run as problem free as possible. I personally dont charge, but I definately dont blame the others, especially when there is a shortage of them.
L|S >+>+G+<+<
Quote:
Originally Posted by explodemyheart
I noticed that yesterday. I started seeing sins say "pay me 500g each or I won't go" and people justifying it with "it's only fair, they have to do all the running". To be honest, if anybody deserved to be paid, it'd be the monks. It's super nice when the idiot PUGs stand in sandstorm and churning earth and get plowed.
Anyway, when the sins can complete the entire farm by themselves, I'll start paying. Until then, they can shove it. You have a point, however.....
I do believe that other people in the team should bring along ale for the sins as ale isn't free & is used in the build.
So I understand you but also perhaps you & the others that do this shouldn't take sins for granted either...
My 2 cents
Anyway, when the sins can complete the entire farm by themselves, I'll start paying. Until then, they can shove it. You have a point, however.....
I do believe that other people in the team should bring along ale for the sins as ale isn't free & is used in the build.
So I understand you but also perhaps you & the others that do this shouldn't take sins for granted either...
My 2 cents
flipfly2004
if a sin is skilled... he wont need any consumables -.-"
im a permasin too and somehow i do understand why others ask for fee - well i dont...
i just tell them to feel free ti give tips ^^
some who appreciate my efforts give me some plats, and those who dont... uhm its ok
im a permasin too and somehow i do understand why others ask for fee - well i dont...
i just tell them to feel free ti give tips ^^
some who appreciate my efforts give me some plats, and those who dont... uhm its ok
explodemyheart
Quote:
Originally Posted by AOD_EaSyKiLL
Untill you can do the run on a sin yourself, dont knock the other sins.
The sin takes all the blame for everything, and depending on the build, may use a decent amount of alcohol and/or cupcakes, just to make the run as problem free as possible. I personally dont charge, but I definately dont blame the others, especially when there is a shortage of them. I can and do run the sin, thanks. It isn't that hard, really boring if anything. I have yet to be in a group that has blamed me, or been in a group that has blamed the sin. Usually the groups I'm in blame the monks if anything goes wrong.
The biggest problem with them charging is that they do, in fact, suck at their job. Just like many PUG monks that used to demand payment back in the day when there was a shortage of them. First of all, as I've said before, it really isn't that hard of a job. Second, if you suck, you have no right demanding payment for your services.
And for the record, the couple of really good sins I've had in my groups have been tipped for their services. But they were good and never demanded payment for their part in a TEAM effort.
The sin takes all the blame for everything, and depending on the build, may use a decent amount of alcohol and/or cupcakes, just to make the run as problem free as possible. I personally dont charge, but I definately dont blame the others, especially when there is a shortage of them. I can and do run the sin, thanks. It isn't that hard, really boring if anything. I have yet to be in a group that has blamed me, or been in a group that has blamed the sin. Usually the groups I'm in blame the monks if anything goes wrong.
The biggest problem with them charging is that they do, in fact, suck at their job. Just like many PUG monks that used to demand payment back in the day when there was a shortage of them. First of all, as I've said before, it really isn't that hard of a job. Second, if you suck, you have no right demanding payment for your services.
And for the record, the couple of really good sins I've had in my groups have been tipped for their services. But they were good and never demanded payment for their part in a TEAM effort.
gerg-nad
I am the most unlucky person out there as I have done 100 Slaver full runs before this Farm run became popular, so 100*5 chests = 500 and now about 200-250 farm runs, so total of 700 to 750 runs and have not gotten a voltaic spear. I have plenty of Amethyst, Ember-steel, and Pyroclastic and even a few Fuchsia Staffs, but not one Voltaic Spear. I have had 4 Spear of the Hierophant drop (at Duncan), but the greens, because they are not modable are not as desirable.
They should make the greens modable, as I thought greens were to be the most desirable drops in the game, but as it stands low rec. golds are much more valuable.
They should make the greens modable, as I thought greens were to be the most desirable drops in the game, but as it stands low rec. golds are much more valuable.
english storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by explodemyheart
I noticed that yesterday. I started seeing sins say "pay me 500g each or I won't go" and people justifying it with "it's only fair, they have to do all the running". To be honest, if anybody deserved to be paid, it'd be the monks. It's super nice when the idiot PUGs stand in sandstorm and churning earth and get plowed.
Anyway, when the sins can complete the entire farm by themselves, I'll start paying. Until then, they can shove it. I disagree, as much as it pains me to say it, the sin's are the ones doing all the hard work (still wouldn't pay though) The monks have an easier time in a good group, as long as the eles wait for the sin to keep aggro and call, then the sin should be the only one taking damage. Yeah in bad groups the warders can wipe your party though...
Things go quicker and smoother if you take 1 monk and 5 eles that are patient! It's all over before the warders get a chance to attack
Anyway, when the sins can complete the entire farm by themselves, I'll start paying. Until then, they can shove it. I disagree, as much as it pains me to say it, the sin's are the ones doing all the hard work (still wouldn't pay though) The monks have an easier time in a good group, as long as the eles wait for the sin to keep aggro and call, then the sin should be the only one taking damage. Yeah in bad groups the warders can wipe your party though...
Things go quicker and smoother if you take 1 monk and 5 eles that are patient! It's all over before the warders get a chance to attack
Flying Spell
Quote:
Originally Posted by english storm
I disagree, as much as it pains me to say it, the sin's are the ones doing all the hard work
Really? Then why doesn't the sin just solo the run?
It is a team effort. Keep that in mind at all times.
It is a team effort. Keep that in mind at all times.
lordheinous
I actually stopped doing this run a few days ago, and am surprised that it seems so many people are still doing it. I did 100+ runs, and the only thing I got of worth was a r10 ammy aegis...which I haven't been able to sell, highest offer I've gotten for it was 8k lol. Besides the fact the run is boring as hell and unreliable in the chances of good drops, even the value of those "good" drops are starting to fall like hell. I was running it on my sin, and I can do chaos planes runs, even with it's current state, and get much more reliable income. True, it may not be the most stimulating thing ever, but its no less interesting than the vs farm, and I get rid of the pug variable as well (I count alliance groups in my case as pugs too, they generally are just as random ).
As far as the sin charging goes, I never did it, but I can see why GOOD sins would do so, and if I do start doing the run again, I probably will. While the sin is running, both in verdant and slavers itself, the rest of the party can do whatever-talk, eat, read, watch tv, go randomly afk, and they frequently do. So, the run may be 7-9 minutes total for the sin, but it may actually only be 1-2 minutes for the rest of the party. Therefore, in reality, you actually have not one run, but two; one which is insanely profitable as it allows you to be afk most of the time then get a good reward chest for 1-2 minutes work, while the other is tedious, requires one to actually be at the computer for most of the run, and requires at least some skill to be done right, but it gets exactly the same reward as the other "farm". Is it any wonder that there is a shortage of sins? Also, if you need cons as a perma, you're doing it wrong; the method that some idiot posted on the wiki is incredibly stupid for HM, so figure out how to do it without the stupid perma-dark escape idea.
).As far as the sin charging goes, I never did it, but I can see why GOOD sins would do so, and if I do start doing the run again, I probably will. While the sin is running, both in verdant and slavers itself, the rest of the party can do whatever-talk, eat, read, watch tv, go randomly afk, and they frequently do. So, the run may be 7-9 minutes total for the sin, but it may actually only be 1-2 minutes for the rest of the party. Therefore, in reality, you actually have not one run, but two; one which is insanely profitable as it allows you to be afk most of the time then get a good reward chest for 1-2 minutes work, while the other is tedious, requires one to actually be at the computer for most of the run, and requires at least some skill to be done right, but it gets exactly the same reward as the other "farm". Is it any wonder that there is a shortage of sins? Also, if you need cons as a perma, you're doing it wrong; the method that some idiot posted on the wiki is incredibly stupid for HM, so figure out how to do it without the stupid perma-dark escape idea.
Truegen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Spell
It is a team effort. Keep that in mind at all times.
And the sins DO do the hardest part of the run, but the other players are in no way invaluable. Everyone plays a necessary role, but not everyone has to run to the dungeon as well as grab aggro every time and get trampled
The Arching Healer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Spell
Really? Then why doesn't the sin just solo the run?
It is a team effort. Keep that in mind at all times. A sin can solo with h/h, all other professions can't.
It is a team effort. Keep that in mind at all times. A sin can solo with h/h, all other professions can't.
explodemyheart
Quote:
Originally Posted by english storm
Quote:
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Originally Posted by english storm
A sin can solo with h/h, all other professions can't.
Then maybe they should, instead of asking to be paid for a farm that they need others to help them complete.
It's people being greedy, it's that pure and simple. Sins asking to be paid is as dumb as monks asking to be paid back in the day for their healing services. Just like this situation, the monks needed other people to kill things for them. If they're good and they want to ask for tips, that's cool because it's optional and a lot of people will actually tip, even when the sin isn't actively asking for tips. But a sin sitting in grotto spamming "running VS, 500g per person per run" is just stupid. If it's such hard work that they need to charge for it, maybe they should switch to a different class and leave the sin to the people who aren't such greedy asshats.
lordheinous
Quote:
Originally Posted by explodemyheart
And the sins have an easier time if they're good, which most of them aren't. Moot point.
Then maybe they should, instead of asking to be paid for a farm that they need others to help them complete. It's people being greedy, it's that pure and simple. Sins asking to be paid is as dumb as monks asking to be paid back in the day for their healing services. Just like this situation, the monks needed other people to kill things for them. If they're good and they want to ask for tips, that's cool because it's optional and a lot of people will actually tip, even when the sin isn't actively asking for tips. But a sin sitting in grotto spamming "running VS, 500g per person per run" is just stupid. If it's such hard work that they need to charge for it, maybe they should switch to a different class and leave the sin to the people who aren't such greedy asshats. No, because as I explained in my post above, there are actually two DIFFERENT farms-the one 7/8 of the party does, that requires some afk and 1-2 minutes actually playing, and the sin's, which requires 7-9 minutes playing, is tedious as hell, and which most people can't do well. However, they get the same rewards. Also, some people seem to think that the same number of good sins will do the run either way, which isn't the case. The rewards gotten are spectacular for 1-2 minutes plus some afk, but not so much for 7-9 minutes, especially when you're doing multiple runs; the sin is cosntantly working, while the others are taking "breaks" that are actually the majority of the run time. I stopped doing the run as sin awhile ago because of the lack of profit, but today I decided to try again, with charging 500g a run, as that would make up for the disparity. I realized as well that people had no way to know whether I was good or not, so I even decided to make the 1st run free, so they could see that I could make the run without dying (or with dying, if I sucked, which fortunately isn't the case). However, all I got was people spamming in all chat that I had scammed them within 30 seconds of me starting my message(lol), and others pming obscenities at me. I finally got a group, gave them the free run with no problems at my end, however 2 of the eles were still afk when I had pulled the groups to the corner, and the others couldn't coordinate there nukes, and they kept on nuking minion only groups for no apparent reason. Although I wouldn't have done another run with them anyways, even being payed, 5 of them left after the reward chest, probably because they wanted to get the free run and never had any intention to pay anyways. So, you know what? You win. I'm not going to charge for my runs. Of course, whether you actually win or not is questionable, as I'm not going to be doing any runs at all, as the time, effort, and boredom to reward ratio is just too bad to justify it. Judging by the number of groups that were spamming "glf for perma to go !!!1!1!1" and the lack of "perma lfg", I think that most perma who, like me, could make the run without trouble so long as there wasn't lag probably came to the same conclusion, as anyone with the skills to correctly do this perma run can do a hundred more profitable perma farming runs than the Thommis one. eximiis
but then again amethyst, fellblade, voltaic spear, serrated spear, gloom shield can net some nice gold! just selling junk gold makes some money.
If you don't make enough money with the runs, maybe you VERY greedy ? as for charging, go do something else while other perma do the runs.
lordheinous
Quote:
Originally Posted by eximiis
but then again amethyst, fellblade, voltaic spear, serrated spear, gloom shield can net some nice gold! just selling junk gold makes some money.
If you don't make enough money with the runs, maybe you VERY greedy ? as for charging, go do something else while other perma do the runs. As said, it is nice...if you only have to do 1-2 minutes work plus some afk to do. I'd put my greed level at "moderately high", as I don't scam, but am not above taking advantage of someone spamming a lowball price for an item. Also, I already stated that I'm going to do something else, whether it be ecto farming, getting the last few titles for my main, taking new characters through, or perhaps reading or watching some tv. It's not like anyone's under any compulsion to do Thommis runs, which was my point; it's probably the reason there are so few sins there as it is. If you really don't agree with me, run perma; you'll always get a group quick, that's for sure, and if its the same amount of work, you really have no reason not to, right? Masao
All the permas I know that do this farm do it for benefit of their guildies and allies. Then again I don't PUG.
Ignoring the rest of the QQ in the prior posts... About efficiency of the farm... Less noob SH ele, moar cryway any/Me or Me/E. Whenever I do this run we use: Perma Me/E or Caster/Me Tripcryer with Ether Me/E or Caster/Me Tripcryer with Ether Me/E or Caster/Me Tripcryer Me/E or Caster/Me Tripcryer N/R SS with FS Mo/Me Tripcryer with ProtSpirit or a long-range heal Mo/E UA Condition Removal/Hex Removal/Long-range Healer As for the Tripcryers. - E/Me should go Echo Dualcryer with Heats. Tripcry with Heats works too. Should bring Meteor Shower too. - Mo/Me should bring condition removal or prots along with their Tripcry. - N/Me can bring Necrosis or Wells or something with Tripcry. - Mesmers should usually go Me/E for Heats but it doesn't really matter, they just need to Signet Dualcry with some other forms of damage/hexes and Fast Casting. Bring Meteor Shower. - A/Me can Tripcry or better yet Assassin's Promise Echo Dualcry. - R/Me can bring a back-up FS and Tripcry with high Expertise. - Rt/Me could spam Ancestor's along with Tripcry maybe, haven't had one in group yet. - D/Me not sure beside Tripcry.Warriors and Paragons have too little energy and energy regen to bother using them, but you could probably come up with a P/Me build with lots of Shouts. Only two people need to use Ether. If you want to bring more go ahead. Go go gadget 2 minutes spent in Justiciar. JimmyNeutron
Interesting. I have to give that a shot. Best time for me was 3min for the chest to appear and that is with 2 Mo, 1 R, and 4 E.
Off subject....I still don't understand why people think they can still get +60ectos on a R9 when everyone in Kama is trying to dump it at +35-45e and still can't get rid of their VS R9. You're a stupid fool and deserve it if you buy at +60e when you can go into Kama during peak hours and get it for a lot less. I dump at least three of mine VS R9 at +20ecto because I don't want to sit in Kama more than 5 min trying to get more ectos when I could've been making more money. So, look for my sales when I get a VS r9.....unless the VS farm gets nerf, I'll continue to sell NO HIGHER than +20ectos. My goal is to push VS off the High End section to the regular Sell section. gerg-nad
Key for short runs is letting the aggro pile on the Sin before the damage dealers go in. That is, the only thing the foes see is the Sin and go after him/her. If the foes do not glitch, which occationally they do run away or off to the far wall, the group of them around the Sin will go down hard and fast and the run will take 3-4 minutes. Most of the time is in the clean up of the rangers and monks.
This clean up after the orginal pile is the time consumer, which is why skills like [deep freeze][you move like a dwarf] are good to have to keep them near the damage dealers and not have them run away. Often what takes most of the time is if one or more of the foes gets glitched on the far wall, this is an AI issue, where the foe will just stand by the far wall. After a while it looses the aggro sense and follows you, but early on it still has aggro and occationally goes back to the wall of the damage dealers without any coaxing, but bounces back his glitch wall. This glitch is very annoying and is again evidence that Anet has tampered too much with AI of both Heros and Foes. As far as Sin charging, my fee is a good corridnated team that does as I prescribe above. I check all builds and let the group know the expectations, if they do not they are not part of the group. Without the foe glitch described above, the runs last between 3-5 minutes. If the foes glitch it may take as long as 7 minutes to get them back to the wall. We take only 1Monk as that is all you need.
own age myname
[build prof=Ranger/Monk][Unyielding Aura][Natural Stride][Dwarven Stability][Lightning Reflexes][Ebon Escape][Edge of Extinction][Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support][Frozen Soil][/build]
Would this work for a FSer? I think this is the right section, if not please move.
Luminarus
Whats the point of skills 1-5?
It can be done easily with just one UA monk, 5 eles, perma and FS. I just cant see why you would use this instead of anything else. If you dont think the other spirits are worth it go /me and echo cop, or go /e with savannah heat and more damage.
ragnagard
Quote:
Originally Posted by own age myname
[build prof=Ranger/Monk][Unyielding Aura][Natural Stride][Dwarven Stability][Lightning Reflexes][Ebon Escape][Edge of Extinction][Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support][Frozen Soil][/build]
Would this work for a FSer? I think this is the right section, if not please move. Mmm i dunno about the rest of the build (i dont comment on that) but [Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support] wouldnt work as wished. He/it doesnt teleport to foe, he/it shadow steps which means that he/it couldnt go through the wall. If shadowstepping worked that way, just some permafs will do the job in groups. Well i havent tried if that wall counts as a normal wall for shadow stepping but... i think it counts... TurinPT
Its nice having the Ua on the spirit guy since 2 monks are not really needed but you can't shadowstep to the other side of the wall.
It would be even better to just take 6 nukers/cryers and have one of them bring FS + 1 ua and 1 runner. Senrath
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragnagard
Mmm i dunno about the rest of the build (i dont comment on that) but [Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support] wouldnt work as wished. He/it doesnt teleport to foe, he/it shadow steps which means that he/it couldnt go through the wall.
If shadowstepping worked that way, just some permafs will do the job in groups. Well i havent tried if that wall counts as a normal wall for shadow stepping but... i think it counts... The skill description is inaccurate. It actually is created right at your target. So it will make it through the wall.
Luminarus
EoE helps, otherwise thtas it. Just pop eoe & FS and ur all good.
own age myname
So would I get accepted into a group? Or should I just keep practicing my perma shadow running?
gerg-nad
Don't use the Sniper Support as it will keep the foes away from the wall besides many other skills are going to be more useful. As far as the UA build, that builds is all wrong. We go with one UA monk and runs take 2-5 minutes, and most of the time is spent getting the last vestages that are away from wall.
My Lipgloss is Cool
Try and fit ["You Move Like a Dwarf"] in there somewhere for those last few guys that run in and out. KD + Cripple keeps them in range and in AoE longer.
gerg-nad
BTW got my Rec 9 VS, but still am doing runs for funsies and the UNIDs. There is little else going on in GW for veterans as I have done MOX on 4 toons already and DOA is dead and UW/FOW old. If you see me in your group say Hi.
TurinPT
[build prof=Monk/Mesmer][Cry of Pain][Arcane Echo][Echo][Mind Wrack][Smite Condition][Castigation Signet][Balthazar's Aura][Auspicious Incantation][/build]
Would this work as a cryway? there are way too many monks in Umbral, hard to get a team.
snodaard
aura makes the group flee, so better not bring that,
it's also good to just bring a PS, not realy needed but if the monk doesn't use it correctly it would be nice if you have another.
My Lipgloss is Cool
Also, if running any AoE holy damage, make sure that the monk has PS on the runner before you use it ... If there are a few minions on the perma, he could be in for quite a Death Nova spike
mage767
This was a total shock for me. See the image:
 One was R9, other was R12. Made me really happy 
byteme!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mage767
This was a total shock for me. See the image:
 One was R9, other was R12. Made me really happy
I hope you bought a lottery ticket that day. Uneffinbelievable!On another note. Prices are gonna nose dive. (not that I care) Regardless of how low the drop rate is. The sheer volume of people doing this run is monstrous. Anyone who wishes to get one only needs to do this run. It's a matter of "when" they will get 1 not "if" they will get one. Anyone with enough patience will eventually get 1. You could run it once and get a VS to drop or you can run it a 100 times and get 1. Considering the run is short it's not really a problem how many runs it takes. Unless you are the Perma running you only have 1-3 minutes worth of work to do each run anyways. english storm
300+ runs and not one vs yet, only decent drop has been a pyro axe. Still not all bad news another 20 onyxs and diamonds and i can make all the weapons for my HoM.
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