How GW has become a grind fest...

The problem is, people who rush through the story line (ie, all those people who beat NF the first weekend it came out) then go on complaining about how their is no content. If you compeletely skipped all the side quests and didn't bother discovering all the interesting "easter eggs" of every zone, that's your fault.

Baulder's Gate 2 can be beaten in 30 miniutes using an exploit to get to the final missions quickly (there is a video on youtube). Does that mean that that game lacks content? No. Does being able to rush through GW and then get bored of it means it lacks content? No.

People either
a) rush through the storyline and miss90% of the game
or
b) play the game for 1000s of hours, and THEN complain about the "lack of content" even though that content kept them satisfied for thousands of hours before they got bored. That is far more then most modern games (and FAR more then the average console game).

Aye. I think someone did the maths on it once - even at two chapters a year, it was still possible to play a couple of other games on the side and still come out spending less than you would have on WoW.

And don't think that doesn't have the occasional player complain about running out of content...

Wrong! Anarchy Online and it's expansion Notum Wars are FREE to play and no monthly fee and provide a lot more content than GW does. Weapon and Armor and gear specs are practically unlimited. Just thought you needed to know Maple Story isn't the only other free based game around online with content.

you can't really seriously compare maple story and anarchy online to GW. I mean, just look at the graphics engine. I mean, AO isn't even 3D! And both are very kiddy graphics-wise (and so is WoW for that matter).
GW is a game that's graphically amazing, and competes with all pay-per-month mmorpg's of it's time, and it's free!
On top of that, like many said, there's enough content to keep you satisfied if you play casually and actually do all the sidequests.

To sum it up: GW has THREE chapters plus a big expansion in which you can enjoy:
-Playing through the game in NM
-Doing all the sidequests as well
-Playing through the game in HM
-Exploring and Vanquishing all areas
-Hunting for titles
-Doing all of the above with 10 different professions!!!

Set goals for yourself, and you'll be busy untill GW2 is long out.
And if you do not enjoy all of the above, go find a different game to play. It's not GW that's insufficient, it's YOU who are bored with it easily. Which is fine of course, but it's not due to GW lacking content.

-oh and there's pvp as well (I forgot)...

But getting back to the original post, there IS quite the amount of grind involved for maxing out some titles, such as the EotN reputation titles, SS/LB and Lux/Kurz titles, which I think can get boring, but then again: these are just some titles. If you're not interested in titles, there's still a lot to be achieved in GW.

It's nice to see that this has settled down to a reasonable discussion. The bomb throwers and trolls have moved on.

The OP felt that in order to "complete" the game, he needed to max the titles. That would require significant grind.

I continue to contend that reasonable levels can be attained in each Title simply by playing the game. For example, attaining r4 in Ebon Vanguard will give you 17 seconds using Ebon Battle Standard of Courage, whereas r10 will only give you 20. But moving from r4 to r10 requires 1000% more reputation. Thus grind, but without significant material benefit.

It can even be argued that the Friend of Kurzicks/Luxons title, which I hate, can be attained at low levels if people AB'd in Cantha as the developers intended (as Cantha was supposed to blend PvE and PvP to an extent).

So the skill balance which buffed PvE at lower levels has clearly meant that the differences between low rank and max rank are marginal at best.

Some will argue that max rank is required in order to exploit the game using some specific build, but I would counter that this is not in the spirit of the game, nor the intent of the designers. So I have no sympathy for those who absolutely require max rank just so they can mindlessly exploit some specific farming opportunity.

And back to my original premise; grind in GW is a psychological construct people impose upon themselves due to their need to "complete the game", whatever that means.

If you have to "set goals" and force yourself in a game, you really shouldn't be playing it. Why are people even making psychological theories about it? Games are meant to be fun, not chores that make you force yourself as if you're giving up on a bad habbit.
It's not school or work, and all you're really doing is dumbing yourself down, thinking you're lazy because you don't feel like doing stuff that are completely retarded and pointless.

No, you're not.

GW grind is the worst kind of grind there is, because you actually have to think and tire your brain over and over again, instead of just spamming buttons mindlessly like in korean grindfests.

Agreed. You don't need to HFFF it if you just want it for your HoM. Vanquishing + AB will get you there pretty quick - especially if you're doing Vanquisher for HoM anyway.

That was the original fallacy in the OP's argument of GW being a grind fest. He based his entire premise on how he felt instead of the facts.

No, its considerable effort no doubt, but is not grind because its not mandatory to complete the game. There is not one title in this game that must be maxed to finish a campaign.


You make a good point here that people invent their own definitions of completing the game which leads to needless debates because they are ignoring reality and inventing their own. While beating the game/campaign is obviously defeating the final mission. If the endgame rolling credits can't give the player a clue that they have beat the game they are in trouble.

Oh I can seriously compare Maple Story and AO to GW because the statement was about FREE TO PLAY not about GRAPHICS and personally I don't find the graphics in GW all that appealing compared to the others anyways. They all look cartoony to me and I don't rate a game on it's graphics anyways it's the CONTENT and GAMEPLAY vs how pretty it looks like Rome Total War and Medieval Total War both graphically stunning, but, both crappiest games of the genre I've seen in a long time. AO has TONS more content than GW and nobody can powerlevel it to max in a days play. Plus it has TONS of phatt loot that isn't all 15^50 all the time or +30 hps hahah those things are such a joke in GW's.

...or, looked at from another viewpoint, were the basis of a game that was originally designed to be grind-free.

I'm for more grind with emphasis on power like the PVE only skills, but, would like to see more phatt loot items as well. Pretty skins don't do it for me I want an almighty PVE only weapons and armor sets with +20^50 and +30^50 and +40^50 with pretty skins. +10% haste mods to attach to items/armor stuff like that. Make them PVE only like they have done skills and it never has to mess up their precious pvp game.

You think you have to grind here, try playing runescape at lvl 97 combat where it takes a month of nonstop grinding to go up one stupid lvl. GW is based of ur skill as a player all a title means is u have to much extra time on ur hands i have three title so far and i did not grind one second getting them. i gat them simply by going through the story line. there not maxed out but i stll have them. and i go from character to character switching roles so i am not stuck doing the same thing over and over agien. just take ur time and dont rush. i mean it took me 2 years in runescape to get lvl 97 and i am still not maxed out on any skill. and every game has grind at one point or another. and it can be fun exploring the map. who knows you may find something you never knew was there before. i mean GW has near no grind compared to other games like runescape(which is almost nothing but grind). i mean i played runescape for a week then when i logged back on to GW i started to completly ignoring runescape becuase of the grind. and farming can actualy help u become a better player. most ppl that farm learn to stay calm and think rationaly in the middle of a heated battle. even thow i am not a pvp person simply cuase i comp is to slow and i lag to much, i recomend any pvper alteast doing a couple runs of succesfull farming just for the experiance. yes i know farming is grinding and yes i have done it before, and yes it is the most boring thing u can do.and like others have said multy task. grab bountys while going through quest or vanquishing or looking for next mission or town. bountys go real well with vanquishing becuase u get more point when doing it. try something hard for you. leave ur comfertible zone and do something dangerous. take chances and go have fun. if u want do do anything with players find big guild that is advertising for that thing. i mean yes i wish there where more players in outposts to play with but i like to play solo alot of the times anyways so it doesnt hurt me much anyways. the key is to do whatever you have fun doing.

Isn't that a little bit too harsh?
What happened is that 4 years of gaming has led to the insight that a vast amount of people bought the game not to play cooperative, with the benefit of skillcombo's which only work well in balanced teamplay, but to roleplay and grind like they used to do in other games. For these players some adjustments have been made, optional, it's a simple 'take it or leave it'. It does not harm any other players. It has no real benefit.

What I sense here is some kind of jealousy: 'I'm doing so well with my superoriginal self invented skillcombo's and now I have to WORK to get into the HoM...' Sometimes I have the same feeling when I solo and am unable to complete levels where heroes/henchmen are not allowed. Thinking 'Why o why Anet, don't you make things accessable for everyone?'. And than I realize there is a purpose for this: giving those who like to play in teams something extra. Those levels are not meant for me. And I accept that. Just like you guys should accept that HoM probably was not meant for you...