Title Changes in the works

I think some people see the difference as getting GWAMM on multiple characters for the same effort they put out to get it on one. I.e., if it takes X hours to get it on one, it should take 2X hours to get it on two, 3X hours for three, etc. As you noted, "character>player mindset".

I think this is where the talk of "transferring" titles is coming from. If I put in X/2 hours to get 15 titles on character 1 and X/2 hours to get 15 different titles on character 2, which character gets GWAMM? Under the current scheme, neither of them. Under one of the schemes being suggested, both of them. How would you implement this without allowing both characters to display all 30 titles even though each only earned 15? Thus, each character would be "transferring" 15 titles to the other one. (And to any other characters on the account, even if they haven't earned a single title. All would be GWAMM.)

Under the "head start" scheme, which I like, only the pure-grind and bought titles would be account-wide. All characters get credit for those and the work can be split among characters, while each character has to earn the achievement-based titles individually. That would, of course, mean that getting additional characters to GWAMM takes less effort than it does at present, because some of the work doesn't have to be repeated.

If it takes X hours to get 30 titles, it will still take X hours if, say, five titles are made account-wide. But, for multiple characters, you will only need to earn 55 titles instead of 60 for two characters, 80 instead of 90 for three characters, etc. Instead of nX hours for n characters, it would take (n(X - Y) + Y) hours, where Y is the number of hours it took to max the account-wide titles. Seeing as the grind titles are so very time consuming, Y is likely to be a very large percentage of X, substantially reducing the time needed for a new character to make GWAMM.

its true but most people who have responded to this tread have outlandish ideas as to what the changes are going to be and have added on things that were not talked about by linsey. the only things she stated AS THINGS SHE MIGHT CHANGE. are Treasure Hunter and Wisdom, and a possible rework of how you get faction for the ab tiles, and maybe raseing the Faction Cap (not the title cap like some of you dolts thought before) she didnt say anything in regards to any of the other titles that have been talked about in this tread.

Why yes, in fact ArenaNet stated multiple times the reasons you should have when buying the game:
-Superb competitive experience with PvE leading up to it.
-Earning fame and glory at the HoH
-No grind, skill determines your ability, not time.

o look none of those exist anymore.

Absolutism is fun.

Yes, Prophecies had no titles, and no, they do not matter to me in-so-far as I'm gonna cry when they change GWAMM, but I do enjoy their concept since they are a rather popular current-gen feature (Achievements in TF2, Achievements in WoW, Achievements on X-Box 360, etc), and I enjoy collecting them, however, most of them are too grindy and don't adhere to what Guild Wars was meant to be.

Anet put them in as an artificial life extender, but some of the bars are too high. I want them lowered to be less grindy for the average person. What you fail to realize is that it'll still take time, but the average person has multiple characters and rarely a main. The title system only helps the dedicated elite and gives little to no room for the casual to advance, which is not the point. The point is to make content that the elite will decidely advance through faster, but that the casual can overcome too, just later. But casuals who have multiple characters are unable to do this. Either way, both groups of people invest the same amount of time, but now we're thinking good game design where the casual can catch up to the elite eventually and fairly, instead of a system where the casual have to stick to one character just to get anywhere.

gj assuming all my opinions though, you know what they say about that.

Do you think there would be less people playing now if there weren't titles? I think so.
I also tend to think of titles as anets answer to having a lvl 20 max - you cant go around with your level 90+ (as in d2) so you go around with your title instead.

haha it reminds me of some meetings Ive been in at work before - start on one subject and end up at the other end of the earth .
I kind of like the speculation - even though as you say the changes will likely be minor (why they didnt make the Lux/Kurz faction work the same as balt and increase with levels I have no clue).

I know as Ive done everything on my main char - that th going account wide will help me but I am guilty of being drawn into the rest of the conversations - I guess I find it more fun than playing gw atm

I think we suspect that Linsey never does anything by half measures and half the fun is the .....................................anticipation. ....

-Competitive is relative - the dwindling number of players contributes to that decreasing I think. Look at Prophecies though, it is a large pve experience, certainly something that is larger than I personally would expect if GW was focused primarily on PvP ( I would guess this was marketing to sell units - but just a guess).
- Wasnt it just a month or so ago that someone gained fame and glory from getting the R15? Not much change in HoH I think apart from a diff fotm and less players now.
- Grind is such a relative term, personally, if something felt like a grind I probably wouldnt do it but most of the titles Ive got were through playing and helping others through the game. Kurz hffing wasnt much of a grind (until the end wasin sight anyway) as I chatted in vent while I flagged and did it competitively mostly for guild contests.
I resisted getting GW for 6 months until I finally bought it, but I bought it for the PvE content ( and the thoughts of guild battles from WC on battle net).


It is, I agree... then we might not have had the power creep that made all pve easier.


The first one being Kurz/Lux, Im not sure if they were thinking of that as a life extender then (maybe an extender of factions due to less content maybe).
I didnt have a main char. Actually, I had to play on my storage account when factions came out due to the CE delay. That account ended up taking over as my main one. I made a choice to use one for titles. It does not mean I dont play any of the other 13 chars I have , they all have titles of some form or another (my main char isnt my fav char and I would so love to be able to change names of chars in GW...>.<)
The question is , do you think the casual player should have the gwamm title? Isnt that meant to be somewhat exclusive and something to aim for rather than just getting through casual gameplay? (I use the term exclusive loosely).
There are individual titles for many different types of players - maybe the wisdom and TH were made for the chest runners that were around and not made for a casual player to acheive the max?
Just some thoughts....after all, pvp titles are far from easy to attain, especially for casual players.

Eh, if Kurzick/Luxon titles become easier to max, and Wisdom/Treasure Hunter/Drunkard/Sweet Tooth/Party Animal becomes account based. People can still pretty much only get 8 max account based title (those said above and Un/Luck and Zaishen).

That's not even People Know Me. And there would still be grinding. If you want to get GWAMM, even if you do every non-PvP Grinding title (which would be Kurzick, Luxon, Lucky, Unlucky, Drunkard, Sweet Tooth, Wisdom, Treasure Hunter, Sunspear, Lightbringer, Norn, Dwarven, Vanguard, Asura) You only have 14 titles, more then likely, only 7 max will be account based. So in order to get GWAMM on every character, you still need to do 16 other titles, which are not grind titles but achievement titles. (Only achievement title that is no matter what a grind is LDoA, which I hope they fix).



What I hate is that people say all titles should be account based. Only the grind should be, and PvP titles. Protector and stuff should not be.

Your right, it's not GWAMM. If you fill your HoM, you only need rank 4 for max statue effect. Rank 5 if you don't max the HoM.

The problem with this, is that it punishes people who play multiple characters. Even moreso to those who don't have a main character, or a title character.

It might have been designed originally to be character based, but that is only because the titles were character based. Change titles to account based and GWAMM is designed to be account based.

i g2g for the moment, will get back to arguing and overlooking the thread later.

IF in fact HoM will be account wide liek it is suppose to be soon in the future, u don't need to have GWAMM to get all the bonuses in gw2 so they should just leave it alone



And on a side note... they added one of the most tedious titles to get unless you have stacks and stacks of ectos what in mid summer? Z title 20,000 Zkeys to max that title, so even if you manage to farm 5 keys a day it would still take a person 4000 days to max the title, so if they have just decided to reduce grind, why was this newest title made to make it so you have to grind (either for cash or faction) to max it

I dont think they are going to mess with the faction count on Kurzick and Luxon QQ. I think they are going to add something to make it easier to get faction ... Maybe the quests will be repeadtble on some of them with extra rewards. You never know maybe be a new thing all togeather hopefully whatever they do will be tastefully done to where its not just handing it to you saying here is your title now go be gwmaa you little slugger you.

actually, I believe Gwamm offers a benefit in GW2 since it also activates that big honking beacon statue above the Honor monument.

[Dev Update] Upcoming Changes to the Hall of Monuments - 24 June 2008

Account-based Accomplishments

Because the Hall of Monuments displays accomplishments on a character-by-character basis, many players have felt strongly discouraged from playing multiple characters. To allow greater freedom in play style, we are changing the design for the Hall of Monuments. Accomplishments will be transferred to Guild Wars 2 on an account-by-account basis, and players will have the option of displaying their accomplishments by account or by character in the Hall of Monuments. (Please note that the armor statues in the Monument to Resilience will reflect the appearance of the character currently in the Hall of Monuments, not the character that originally displayed that armor set.)

that still doesn't explain the beacon you have to have gwamm on one of your characters to get that big light up in account wide hom, which leads me to believe that it's the trophy for GWAMM thus, it has a benefit in gw2. Hence, it still discourages multiple characters which goes agains that dev note.

I believe that all titles will go accountwide based on that alone. ( not really relying on that though)

players will have the option of displaying their accomplishments by account or by character in the Hall of Monuments.
whcih means benifits will transfer over account wide, however titles will stay they way they are, atleast thats how i interpret that, but i guess we will c when they do in however many months it'll be
i ahve been waiting since they first announced it for these changes to come out, but they just keep getting pushed back

I hate you, you are smart.

also: one vanquish takes exactly 1 minute and nets you instasnt two titles.
and you can keep easily accessible spot unexplored so you can get all 3+1 explorer in one minute.
and open one chest and get both chestrunner and lucky OR unlucky at same time, and you can get other one really fast too if you are lucky with next chest or two.
you can also get final point of north title by lots of quick means (easily accessible unexplored slot, great destroyer mission in hm ...)

i think i was underestimating, you can reach 30 titles in 15 minutes it seems

Thank you.

However, this requires one question and answer:

Why would you want seccond GWAMM?

And none of the work a player does to get to those points (9,999 minutes drunk, 159k points per Rep title, etc) count? Sure, you can FINISH them quickly, but to go from start to finish on any title will take longer than 15 minutes.

But what is difference between this "preparation" and between "preparation" on other character in case of account-wide titles?

Basically a summarization of my entire argument.

The entire title system hass been changed before, it came with HM. Don't forget that. But that was changing of achievement titles, it's grind titles' turn.

And grind is not what Guild Wars, or titles, originally meant. When titles first came out, none were grind. (except Kurzick/Luxon) Grind titles have just been added over time.

And Pwny Ride already stated how removing/reducing grind is not the opposite of what titles stand for.

I am hoping that they add more ways to get Kurzick/Luxon faction, but I honestly cannot think of any ways other then adding faction rewards to the Missions (Arborstone and Seabed give you 250 first time per character, add some to Eternal Grove, Ghayla Hatchery, Urgoz and the Deep). Only other thing I can see happening with K/L is increased Faction holding (instead of 10k, it raises per rank) and higher rewards in Challenge Missions, Arborstone/Seabed, FA, JQ, and AB.

Also, It's gwaam, not gwmaa.

It encouraged multiple play, but titles only on one character. If the titles go account based (And once again, achievement titles should not, and hopefully will not, go account based), then it will encourage multiple character play even more.

-Joins a new guild and shows off GWAMM- -Gets "nice" from guildies- -switches characters to another one with GWAMM- -Get's "WTF!?!? DAMN MAN!"-

You get the point (if you don't, larger e-peens, something not needed)

There is none, it's still time taken to go to the GWAAM title, however, there are currently only 10 account based titles, and the most happening to become account based post-november update will be an additional 11, that's 21. There is still much more time from making a character to getting GWAMM then 15 minutes (if all grind titles become account based, you can get 25 within 15 minutes via tomes, but nothing more, of course that is from character creation to 15 minutes later).

So which is it, work, or preparation? No matter what you call it, you cannot achieve Protector of Tyria without doing THK Mission & bonus, you can't achieve tresaure hunter without opening 10,000 chests, and you can't achieve Legendary Vaquisher without Vanquishing Joko's Domain.

Exactly. Why would it then matter when (= before of after character creation) I do this stuff, as long as I do it?

Don't ask me. I'm not even sure I want the first one. I've only been playing this game for about 6 months and I still have a lot of regular questing and missioning ahead of me before title chasing is the only thing left to do. I have maxed 2 protector and 2 cartographer titles on one of my characters, just because I enjoy it. Doing protector/guardian on the other characters will be a fun challenge because of the different professions, but doing cartography again would just be a grind with nothing new to see, so I have no present intentions of trying.

Get overyourself titles are already pointless

nevertheless, i believe all grind based titles(as in rep grinds, 10k chests, 1 mil zashien, etc) are going account wide, and only "achievement titles" will remain character based such as guardian, vanquisher, carto, survivor/ldoa and those are 16 titles all together which is half of the gwamm requirements..

er... Z title is account based, and with ursan being nerfed there is no reason to grind out norn title anymore, unless you use i am unstoppable, which would be basically runners. And there where really no skills used much in other ranks that make it so you need to grind the other reps to max, well unless you use cryway, which idk does any1 use that anymore? Even so that is for elite areas as far as i am aware of, and most casually gamers don't do elite areas. So if you are not a casual gamer most likely you have the time to do it. And for eotn rep titles specifically, use hm hero books to max it, hm hero books are not hard to do and don't take long. So this all basically comes down to people who would rather QQ over it then take the time to do it.

That was my point, nobody knows if it's yes or no. It looks like everyone thinks that you need GWAMM in your hall of monuments to get some kind of rewards.

****************************


I have a different look on how people play to get GWAMM. I assume that people have a main character and 2nd grade characters that have done quite some stuff as well and sometimes become mules. Most also play some sort of PvP and earn Zaishen Keys that can be sold for 5K each in the Great Temple districts.

Maxing account based titles you mention just help when most do the following anyway:


People start playing GW and the easiest titles by just playing are:
+1 Legendary Survivor
+4 Legendary Skill Hunter
+3 Legendary Protector
+4 Legendary Cartographer
----
=12

That's over 10 titles for just playing the game at normal mode and no grinding. Elite Tomes make sure you don't even have to visit every boss. But capturing the skills might be cheaper.
Ofcourse the game is time consuming but when you like the game then you might want to complete everything (Missions/Bonusses and all quests)


Then you start playing Hard Mode when you want more challange:
+4 Legendary Guardian
+4 Legendary Vanquisher
+1 Master of the North
----
=21

More and more people are starting to play HM and once said they would never play HM. That's 20 titles without grinding. Achievable by teaming up with guildies for some fun or with heroes and henchman because you love to solo. But this is time consuming, but you're playing, not grinding.


Since you're halfway most grinding titles and wait for a double reputation weekend to do some grinding:
+1 Lightbringer
+1 Sunspear
+1 Asura
+1 Norn
+1 Vanguard
+1 Delver
----
=27

We've seen several double reputation point weekends that filled outposts with people that have the same goal. I still remember the last SS/LB weekend (Early January 2008) that earned almost 65.000 minutes of favor. Killing the Great Destroyer in HM gives 15.000 points I think.


To end the wall of text:
I wish they make GWAMM just as rare as a Legendary Hero (maybe 10 others besides Starcraft have it when GW2 gets released?) or a Legendary Champion (which most likely nobody will have when GW2 gets released, I think Stop Flaming gets close to R9?)

good points there ATE, however, do you think doing it once is good enough, or to use certain builds at max efficency, you got to grind at least 1 or3 titles for each character you want to play ..

meh I jus thope the changes will be in our favor, and not necessarily the QQers that already acheived their gwamm

Thanks Helarion. I think people have an option on how to achieve their rewards for GW2:

1. You max out a single character for the Hall of Monuments. Thus, you have a primairy character that you love above everything else.

2. The Hall of Monuments will count every title account based. Meaning you could max Treasure Hunter on your Ranger and farm Asura points on your Assassin. Play Nightfall with your Paragon and Prophecies with a monk only. From what I understood from the dev. notes. Every character can put the statue up and show off.

Well, since this is HORRIBILY off track from what a.net is actually doing and is now just our suggestions...

Mine would be to add a sort of easier way to gain the title after its already been maxed once.

Ie, if my main, my ele, gets rank 10 asura, then all my other characters should get a multiplier (just to asura) to make getting to rank 10 asura easier. The more characters who get the title, the less grind it will require.

why would you need a maxed rep title on a dif character, and once again hm hero books are not that hard to do, that's a rank alone, more if you are in the low ranks when you do it

problem is, it's not JUST EOTN rep :P

Well what is it then? SS/LB? thats a joke to get maxed, i'm a necro i maxed my LB title trapping veil, and it was decent drops, mind you that was also when stygian gems where 1k each, and for SS you could always try to play the game instead of getting ran places, vanq for ss points or just go do the ss/lb runs, there that covers all your non eotn rep points, and if your are including faction rep in there, well thats just a joke, skills are the same on both sides so just change to kurz and fff, or ab on which ever side you are on (only takes 500 10k(or 1000 at 5k) alliance faction donations to max the title)

take our the Zaishen part, and you got me, so I know what your talking about.

Trust me when I say, I know what your talking about . You are saying, word for word, what my sin is doing (and maybe necromancer afterwards, atm I'm just capping all the next elites I pass and getting Protectors, and as much cartography as possible).

I understand this, and I am not pro-making it easier. But I want to reduce the grind. You still have the hardest part to do, HM. HM isn't that hard, but it's harder then grinding (unless your like me who cannot stand repeating the same thing over... and over... and over, etc. etc.).

It is for this reason why I suggest adding a rank 7 (The Legend of <Character Name>, or if that name is hard to program because it would be different for each person, just simply "The Legend," Both ideas fit with Anchorman, as it is a copy from The Legend of Ron Burgundy).

Are they a joke? Doing once, yes. Are they a joke doing several times? Nope, just annoying. Not every character will be vanquishing, so that option is out the window basically. And not everyone likes to do the same runs over and over again, which is what grind is, and why these titles are disliked. Yes there are easy ways to max the titles on ONE character, but lets say 5 characters. That is annoyingly boring, and is the problem.

And if you ask why people would want them on multiple characters, I will just say one thing:

God-Like-Imba-PvE-Only Skills.

lol what God-Like-Imba-PvE-Only Skills are you talking about? none of them are necessary, for the most part the SS PvE Skillscare used for farming, and farming is a form of grinding, after all you would be grinding for cash or a specific item, others would be TNtF, eternal aura, critical agility, and seed of life(which is primarly used or use to be used in farming when you have an obby tank and bonder) which leaves you with 3 ss pve non farming skills

I'm just saying there are ways to reduce the grind without getting rid of it completely.

It doesn't matter about the skills or the titles or any of that... that just goes against the spirit of the game.

And since when have any titles anywhere meant anything.

Bah, I should have learned that there is no meaningful discussion after a thread reaches page 4 a long time ago.

You're completely going off track here. Sure, none of the PvE skills are 'necessary' but in alot of cases, if not all, the TITLES THEMSELVES are.

ok.. tell me what title in the game is worth anything? a person can h/h 95+% of the stuff in this game with or without titles, and the titles only mean something because of the skills/bonuses behind them, eotn titles only provide bonuses in select areas, so if u can deal without them in the others i guess they are not needed at all, ss has no bonuses besides skills, lb is good for what doa?

so once again how are titles 'necessary'? only groups that ever required ranks on titles was pugs, and an easy solution to that is go with guild or friends, and this thread was mostly about changing grind titles to account based or making them easier to reach, however if the skills they provide mean nothing then the titles their selfs and the limited bonuses mean virtually nothing, so once again leave the titles where they are at, its not going to kill any1, it has worked up to this point, it will work just fine the way it is after this point

Once again you missed the point. In areas of the Nightfall storyline, a rank of title is REQUIRED TO ADVANCE IN THE GAME. Does it have to be spelt out letter for letter?

Its frustrating, really. This is beyond help.

R7 SS is needed to progress past the SS sancturary quest,

max LB is necessary for getting masters in certain missions >.> not to mention DOA.

10k faction is needed to do both sides of Factions, kurz and lux, that comes out to 20k worth of grinding.

so, NECESSARY? yep it is

The Time is Nigh - Gain the rank of Sunspear captain(500 ss point) or Level 17, very little grinding required

And a Hero Shall Lead Them - req 2500 ss points, not much grinding required



so it seems your point here is that ppl don't want to take the time to do this part of the game? then y are u playing the game, its part of the game deal with it

how many characters do you play? after the 3rd toon i got through NF, I had enough pretty much.

lol 10k faction you do know how easy that is right, get the 10k on a dif char, and if it is your first time doing it you should play through the story line anyways,but once again that 10k, here ya go get a guest invite to a lux/kurz guild and ab for it, thats what every1 else has had to do, why change it now?