Syncing, is it against the rules? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Chocobo1

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2007

New Zealand

CoA

N/

15 Oct 2008 at 10:26 - 201

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

Raul the Rampant,

Save your breath, what I am trying to say is: I made an effort to voice my opinion hoping Arena Net will do something about it, and giving my ideas as a non-programmer. If they are not applicable, fine, don't use it, but do something about it.

I am not interested in arguing with you about game programming or who has the best idea how to change RA. If you have the best idea, I suggest you go over to Sardelac Sanitarium.

I also would have no trouble giving up my gladiator points, that's how much synchers annoy me, so much that I's give up something I play over a year for.

That is because you are alway the first one to leave, what happens next, you do not know. Please also keep in mind that winning 1X in random arena gives you nothing, you need consecutive to gain points, but most players who had one other players left will 80% of the time leave, right after the first player leaves. 100% of time everyone will leave if the syncher who left was a Monk. In the scenario that one person left follow by another, and when you only have 2 other players left in a team, the third one will 99% leave. Except me most the time, because that still count as 1 win to me, which most players don't take into consideration, that if they restart, one have to count from 0 win again. If I stayed, I get 1 win.

So I stay with 1 win, joins up with another random team, while you go on, do your little fun lawlz synching, come game 10, I meet with your sync group on the opposite end and gets wipe out. That must be some win for you ey.

Now I ask you, if the scenario in the second paragraph is true, can you give me back my time lost there? Can you? I am not talking about time spending playing 9 RA battle, I am talking about time spend until you get a 9 consecutive wins, you do know how long that takes, don't you, that is why you sync. so, question: Can you give me back my lost time just cos you want to save yourself the time and trouble and have a little lawlz. Can you?

I am not claiming that I would 100% win the 10th battle, but knowing that you lost not because the random players you team up with makes a bad team, but you lost because the other team have an edge over your team, they synced, do you know how frustrating that can get?

You know the sport that one always sees in Medieval English Movie? a sport called Jousting. If you are in that sport and the requirement for the Lance that everyone use is, say 3.3 meters in length. You think its fair to go into that sport with a 3.5 meters long Lance?

I don't sync 24/7. Its a once every so often thing to play around in RA. Most of the time in RA I go in by myself and play and yeah you occasionaly do get those people who leave on the first round. If it is anything but a Monk no one cares, no one leaves the party. Only when a monk leaves the party does everyone become frustrated and leave. Random arenas to most people is just entering battle as many times as you can until you see Mo/W or to a lesser extent Mo/A on your team.

I'm not part of a group that would sync for wins or whatever. I'm sorry that you get beaten like that constantly but uh I'm really guna call exaduration on this. I RA a lot in this game, it's the only thing fun to do on my own and never have I come across a fully synced team with perfect builds. I have seen 3/4 and 2/4 but these builds are just people loading up and playing together without actually considering what builds to use that would work with allies builds. Getting 4 on a team would be so incredibly hard I don't really believe anyone would have the willpower to do it. I'm not saying it's never happened but lets be honest, how often have you come across a 4/4 synced team.

Just something else I wanna talk about, I find it hilarious that people go to sync RA to farm points. I do it with one mate and generally we screw around and no this doesn't mean we load up escape rangers and run around the map till 10 minutes is up. We go in and have a laugh but wow farming Balthazar or Glad points is not even on our minds. If you have the patience to sync RA and try get a decent team why not just move to Team Arenas. Load up the lame Necro Monk Ranger War builds going on at the moment and theres a free 10 wins. Better yet, go to HA and earn fame! RA is the joke of the game, why not just play it to have fun?

Vazze

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2006

15 Oct 2008 at 15:57 - 202

Last week I met a full Rt/R spike team in RA, it was fun (we lost).

I do not quite understand how some people got this idea that syncing is not an exploit in RA.
Let's see, what the reward is in RA: Glad point, balt faction, feel of win, joy of killing, etc.
Does syncing go against the game design? Of course, you get to chose your teammates in TA, RA is random.
Does bringing along your friends help you achieve the goals in RA? Answer: it can obviously, and in most cases it does.
Is the advantage unfair? If you are a W and you bring your W friend it is may not have too much of an effect on the success rate of the teams (unless you both are extremely skilled). But if you sync balanced teams or key members of balanced teams, there is a good chance for a long win streak is. Answer, it can be unfair and in most cases it is unfair.
Is the reward for syncing significant? RA is quite popular in GW but in anets book only organized games are supported in PvP and RA was never meant to be competitive/fair. In other words noone gives a shit what is going on there. Now that all the devs are busy working on gw2 this is unlikely to change. Also syncing is not that popular so you probably do not meet synced teams too often (yet).

What do we have here? Syncing is a low priority exploit. It is annoying from time to time, but not nearly as annoying as some other things there....

Kusandaa

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

N/Mo

15 Oct 2008 at 16:17 - 203

I avoid RA since my experiences there were not the best ever. Leavers upon entry, went in maybe 10-15 times and always, always a leaver or two - I dunno if it's like that all the time, but I don't like being disadvantaged in such a small group number. So in all honesty, sync or don't sync, it doesn't personally affect me. But I have to agree that it totally erases the "random" factor of RA.

In AB... if you want 2 decent teams on the same map, you almost have to sync with friends or guildies, I'm sorry. You're 12 on a map, when 8 of them won't work well, 4 decent players won't make much of a difference. A lot of ABs I go in fail because the other teams on my side will not cap and tries to solo mobs, or just don't pay attention to the shrines at all and will chase a single enemy across the whole map.

(If it really was Alliance Battles, I'd say go 3 groups of 4 from ONE alliance vs. 3 groups of 4 from ANOTHER alliance... thus would eliminate most of the idiots I see on other teams on my side, at least. Yes, I'm fairly sour about the amounts of idiocy I see in AB).

Painbringer

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2006

Minnesota

Black Widows of Death

W/Mo

15 Oct 2008 at 17:32 - 204

Screenshot report see what happens ?

DreamWind

Forge Runner

Join Date: Oct 2006

E/Mo

15 Oct 2008 at 19:24 - 205

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

I honestly find it totally laughable people would bother with such an exploit.

The GW community gets greedier and more deplorable by the month.

In saying it's for a title.

If somebody (Anet) throws a big steak (titles and HoM) in to the middle of perfectly happy lions (players) and the lions fight over it, is it the lions fault or the person who threw the steak?

Gargle Blaster

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2005

15 Oct 2008 at 20:30 - 206

Blame is not something that matters. this thread would have been laughed off this board a year ago...every day the topics fall into ever more depressing and or reminiscent of "HAVE YOU EVER...","YOUR WORST..." or "YOUR FAV...", crap. Its like the board is dieing and its life is being flashed before its eyes in the form of shitty threads. this thread if anything is increasing syncing by bringing it to the attention of people.

Reasons for Anet to do nothing about syncing:

sync does not guarentee winning
sync peoples are not always put on the same team
Its not that big of a problem i would guess way less than 1% of ra is made of sync teams(no i have no evidence except for my experience in ra R3 glad btw)
yall just need to clean the sand out of your crotch

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

15 Oct 2008 at 20:43 - 207

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gargle Blaster

Blame is not something that matters. this thread would have been laughed off this board a year ago...every day the topics fall into ever more depressing and or reminiscent of "HAVE YOU EVER...","YOUR WORST..." or "YOUR FAV...", crap. Its like the board is dieing and its life is being flashed before its eyes in the form of shitty threads. this thread if anything is increasing syncing by bringing it to the attention of people.

Correction.
The board isn't dying.
The game is.

Hence why nobody gives a flying rat's ass about things that are "wrong".
Abuse.
Destroy.
Move on.

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

15 Oct 2008 at 20:46 - 208

Alright, I must say I've just see a "legit" reason for syncing in TA for the first time ever.

Say somebody leaves your TA game after a match is over. If you don't want to break up your win streak and keep going while the "no party restarting timer" message repeats, you can sync in an alliancemate/guildmate from TA into your TA team.

That thought NEVER occured to me (mainly because I don't TA much), but that actually does make sense as a "legit" reason to sync (in TA at least, since you get to arrange your team in the first place, it makes sense a system should exist to let you choose your replacement teammate).

So, whatever solution to syncing is done in RA, a.net should make sure not to do it to TA as well (since there is serves a legitamate purpose).

DreamWind

Forge Runner

Join Date: Oct 2006

E/Mo

15 Oct 2008 at 20:55 - 209

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Alright, I must say I've just see a "legit" reason for syncing in TA for the first time ever.

Say somebody leaves your TA game after a match is over. If you don't want to break up your win streak and keep going while the "no party restarting timer" message repeats, you can sync in an alliancemate/guildmate from TA into your TA team.

That thought NEVER occured to me (mainly because I don't TA much), but that actually does make sense as a "legit" reason to sync (in TA at least, since you get to arrange your team in the first place, it makes sense a system should exist to let you choose your replacement teammate).

So, whatever solution to syncing is done in RA, a.net should make sure not to do it to TA as well (since there is serves a legitamate purpose).

I'd rather sync a god team and roll scrubways for my leet title that ANet gave me to look leet.

fireflyry

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

New Zealand

A/D

15 Oct 2008 at 22:19 - 210

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

If somebody (Anet) throws a big steak (titles and HoM) in to the middle of perfectly happy lions (players) and the lions fight over it, is it the lions fault or the person who threw the steak?

Abusing an exploit is a conscientious choice as is maxing titles and filling the HoM.

It's not forced on the player, it's a conscious and clear cut decision.

In saying I don't blame players for abusing such an exploit as titles are all many have left to do and it's human nature to take the path of least resistance to attain a goal.That doesn't stop me finding it humorously pathetic, all be it less so than afk rings.Mass abuse of an exploit is seldom good for any game, in most cases it's quite detrimental as the majority of players here know and have experienced already.

Titles are already pretty laughable but exploits like this tend to do nothing but make the title a joke to the whole community which is unfair to those that actually give a crap and focused time on attaining it.

All debating aside the title of the arena really says it all and it should be fixed asap.Attempting to place blame and/or point the finger accomplishes nothing.

jaximus

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2008

wisc

16 Oct 2008 at 00:08 - 211

alright so after reading the posts again my opinion hasnt really changed. people are gonna find a way to sync no matter what, some will beat me, some wont. the synced teams i beat, ill prolly flash my bambi at them just to be a jerk about it. the ones i lose to ill prolly be mad for a bit but then beat them the next time around. owell. some people offered suggestions about removing glad points from ra and making ta the only spot to get them. bad idea. take a step back, think about when people really started to notice this problem of syncing. when you could go in and see matching guild tags. problem is... balth faction. the zaishen title is the cause of this. people arent so much farming glads by syncing its the balth for they keys they are after. keys are the best way to make money left in the game because of the way anet changes drop rates/builds so when you can sync with a partner and get faction easy, theres lots of cash to be made. the zaishen title is a rich person title. you dont have to be good at anything... ebay some gw gold, buy some keys, click a chest that you can repeatedly open. and you get an emote? for why? thats my take on the whole syncing issue. if you take glad points out of ra, the people that are actually good and want points will leave, thus creating an environment where people can sync and get keys even faster. instead of forcing rules on the players that play ra correctly, change a broken title. simple as that.

AKB48

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2008

みやき町

Mo/A

16 Oct 2008 at 02:13 - 212

nothing went wrong, people just like to go off in WILD tangents. Sync is good imo, since it allows more people to play instead of a pro stuck with 3 other newbs.

Master Ketsu

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

middle of nowhere

Krazy Guild With Krazy People [KrZy]

R/

16 Oct 2008 at 02:25 - 213

Quote:

I do not quite understand how some people got this idea that syncing is not an exploit in RA.

Short answer: They are stupid.

Slightly longer answer: Its pretty obvious if you read this thread: People simply don't know and apparently don't want to know what an exploit is. Even after the definition according to both the video game dictionary and game developers has been given people just ignore it. You will find that when it comes to ethical concerns like cheating people will invent all sorts of nonsensical reasons to try and make their actions seem right in their own eyes. It works the same way as religious fundamentalism. Get an idea -> Assume idea is correct -> Ignore contradicting evidence -> Keep idea forever.

Aera Lure

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

In Baltar's head

Bring Out Your Dead [BOYD], former officer [LBS]

Mo/

16 Oct 2008 at 03:36 - 214

Syncing is an exploit. Its supposed to be random for a reason.

All Anet has to do to stop it is implement a random script that actually activates the "enter" action anywhere from 1 to 15 seconds (or so) after the player actually hits enter. Doesnt take any filtering of guild tags or chat or anything. Cant imagine why they havent done it. I suppose part of the reason is they need to believe syncing exists, first.

Gargle Blaster

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2005

16 Oct 2008 at 04:07 - 215

if you want to call sync in RA an exploit - fine live in whatever world you want. i have no power over your faith; however, Random is not a bug, unintended, or unanticipated... it's the purpose and function of the arena.

RA is no place for fairness its RANDOM you may get on a team of crappy players you may get on a team with good players... deal with it... its as good as RANDOM gets... there is never(well... mostly never) an even distribution of good and bad players in random...

I enjoy killing you people in RA, if you sync or if you don't, ill kill you just the same...

As it relates to fanatics/religious fundamentalism - the defining of words is one of the first things that should trip your bullshit detector - because if you can change the meaning of words you can make reality whatever you want.

AKB48

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2008

みやき町

Mo/A

16 Oct 2008 at 05:21 - 216

but so what? all your talks here doesn't really makes a difference does it? I mean, how fair is it that for a really good player to be stuck with 3 really bad players? It's the last thing you want in RA besides losing your glad point.

Sync: exploit, but it is NOT bad, since it allows for a greater varity of play.

DreamWind

Forge Runner

Join Date: Oct 2006

E/Mo

16 Oct 2008 at 06:00 - 217

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

In saying I don't blame players for abusing such an exploit as titles are all many have left to do and it's human nature to take the path of least resistance to attain a goal. That doesn't stop me finding it humorously pathetic, all be it less so than afk rings.

It isn't humorously pathetic...its smart. In fact I think if you are hunting for titles you are stupid if you DON'T do it given the parameters Anet has created. Titles are considered a benefit (sadly). Players will simply find the easiest way to benefit themselves.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

Mass abuse of an exploit is seldom good for any game, in most cases it's quite detrimental as the majority of players here know and have experienced already.

So then why did Anet add things that make people want to abuse exploits even more?

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

Titles are already pretty laughable but exploits like this tend to do nothing but make the title a joke to the whole community which is unfair to those that actually give a crap and focused time on attaining it.

Titles have always been a joke.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

Attempting to place blame and/or point the finger accomplishes nothing.

I think you are letting Anet off far too easy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

Slightly longer answer: Its pretty obvious if you read this thread: People simply don't know and apparently don't want to know what an exploit is. Even after the definition according to both the video game dictionary and game developers has been given people just ignore it. You will find that when it comes to ethical concerns like cheating people will invent all sorts of nonsensical reasons to try and make their actions seem right in their own eyes.

It isn't an exploit. Hell its arguable that its even a flaw in the game. Its simply a optimal strategy. Remove titles and you'll remove the "need" to do it.

Master Ketsu

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

middle of nowhere

Krazy Guild With Krazy People [KrZy]

R/

16 Oct 2008 at 06:19 - 218

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

It isn't an exploit. Hell its arguable that its even a flaw in the game. Its simply a optimal strategy. Remove titles and you'll remove the "need" to do it.

It is an exploit. I explained why a few pages back. Every major game developer and publisher I have worked for and know would classify this as an exploit and have it filed under the same database as game bugs.

Kashrlyyk

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

16 Oct 2008 at 08:54 - 219

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raul the Rampant

...I'm not sure what exactly the question you're asking is supposed to mean, so maybe this isn't what you're after, but the probability of two people being on the same team should be the same as the probability of them not being on the same team in a random instance. Extrapolate that out to 4 people and the probability of them being on the same team should decrease exponentially as probability of them not being on the same one increases by the same factor. Of course this is assuming there's a fairly full district of people to choose from (which isn't the area syncers target), as fenix pointed out.....

You have 100 spheres in a bowl. 96 are black and 4 are red. You randomly pick them up and place them in groups of four. Each group is filled before a new group is started. What are the probabilities to get 4,3 or 2 red ones in the same group?
The same but the spheres are queued and the groups are done by taking the first sphere in the queue and then the second a.s.o.. What are the probabilities then? This one would completly depend on the distribution of the red spheres in the queue and the position of the first red sphere.

If the red spheres are right behind each other (that is what syncing is trying to do), than all 4 are in the same group, if the first red sphere is at position 5, 9, 13 a.s.o..

Shasgaliel

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2008

[bomb]

16 Oct 2008 at 09:29 - 220

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

Slightly longer answer: Its pretty obvious if you read this thread: People simply don't know and apparently don't want to know what an exploit is. Even after the definition according to both the video game dictionary and game developers has been given people just ignore it. You will find that when it comes to ethical concerns like cheating people will invent all sorts of nonsensical reasons to try and make their actions seem right in their own eyes. It works the same way as religious fundamentalism. Get an idea -> Assume idea is correct -> Ignore contradicting evidence -> Keep idea forever.

QFT. I would not be able to formulate it in a such nice way myself.

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

16 Oct 2008 at 10:36 - 221

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

Short answer: They are stupid.

Slightly longer answer: Its pretty obvious if you read this thread: People simply don't know and apparently don't want to know what an exploit is. Even after the definition according to both the video game dictionary and game developers has been given people just ignore it. You will find that when it comes to ethical concerns like cheating people will invent all sorts of nonsensical reasons to try and make their actions seem right in their own eyes. It works the same way as religious fundamentalism. Get an idea -> Assume idea is correct -> Ignore contradicting evidence -> Keep idea forever.

Show "contradicting evidence" applying to this issue.
And you might want to include the term "NC Interactive" in there a few times.
And you can start by contradicting this:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...hlight=syncing

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

Even when a team tries to synch, it doesn't always work. It does sometimes though, so I will see if the designers feel it is a serious issue, and if there is a way to fix it.

And you are mistaken.
Some of us aren't assuming that the idea is correct.
We are just assuming that the idea isn't wrong.

pumpkin pie

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

behind you

bumble bee

E/

16 Oct 2008 at 11:05 - 222

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

Even when a team tries to synch, it doesn't always work. It does sometimes though, so I will see if the designers feel it is a serious issue, and if there is a way to fix it.

Please fix it. thank you very much.

It does work, hence, I for one have stop playing in that Random Arena. Some players also admitted here that it is possible and they do with good success rate in synching.

shoogi

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2007

Ray

16 Oct 2008 at 11:14 - 223

for crying out loud...
when will a mod finally come and tell people to STOP REMAKING THE SAME THREAD ABOUT SAME SUBJECT EVERY DAY.

Syncing is NOT cheating, nothing could be done by anet to stop it and nothing should be done by anet to stop it. It's not as near as common as you make it look anyway.

Kashrlyyk

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

16 Oct 2008 at 11:26 - 224

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

Even when a team tries to synch, it doesn't always work. It does sometimes though, so I will see if the designers feel it is a serious issue, and if there is a way to fix it.

So if I find a way to duplicate an item, that only works 70% of the time it would not be a problem? I would not be banned right?? Right??

Shasgaliel

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2008

[bomb]

16 Oct 2008 at 11:35 - 225

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoogi

for crying out loud...
when will a mod finally come and tell people to STOP REMAKING THE SAME THREAD ABOUT SAME SUBJECT EVERY DAY.

Syncing is NOT cheating, nothing could be done by anet to stop it and nothing should be done by anet to stop it. It's not as near as common as you make it look anyway.

Thread is from 2007. So it is not a new one. I think it is good to put it back again.

You think Anet should not do anything so you can sync further? Regarding your arguments someone already sum it up in a very nice way:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

Slightly longer answer: Its pretty obvious if you read this thread: People simply don't know and apparently don't want to know what an exploit is. Even after the definition according to both the video game dictionary and game developers has been given people just ignore it. You will find that when it comes to ethical concerns like cheating people will invent all sorts of nonsensical reasons to try and make their actions seem right in their own eyes. It works the same way as religious fundamentalism. Get an idea -> Assume idea is correct -> Ignore contradicting evidence -> Keep idea forever.

If it was up to me I would just keep banning since this syncing abuse seriously spoils the game for others - OP of this old thread for example.

Numa Pompilius

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

At an Insit.. Intis... a house.

Live Forever Or Die Trying [GLHF]

W/Me

16 Oct 2008 at 12:01 - 226

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

Even when a team tries to synch, it doesn't always work.

Doesn't have to be a complete team, two or three synched players in the team is still a huge advantage.

Quote:

It does sometimes though, so I will see if the designers feel it is a serious issue, and if there is a way to fix it.

I wouldn't say it's a serious issue, but it's been getting worse. The last few weeks I've come up against Mo-W-Ra-N spike teams in RA every, oh, 5-10 matches, which is annoying and makes it much harder to get winning streaks.

Daenara

Bad Romance

Join Date: May 2006

Aussie Trolling Crew HQ - Grand Matron

Mo/

16 Oct 2008 at 12:19 - 227

Silly to resurrect an old thread when the current one is still going.

However, what it does show is that the issue has been going on for a long time. The likelihood of Anet fixing it now is very slim.

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

16 Oct 2008 at 13:28 - 228

Quote:

Originally Posted by moko

my point is that it's not considered "cheating".

sure, it's not fair, and shouldn't be done, but clearly arenanet doesn't care enough seeing how they abuse it themselves.

respectable figure does it >>> it is ok thing to do

?

Surely, you must be jesting.

Aera Lure

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

In Baltar's head

Bring Out Your Dead [BOYD], former officer [LBS]

Mo/

16 Oct 2008 at 14:02 - 229

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoogi

for crying out loud...
when will a mod finally come and tell people to STOP REMAKING THE SAME THREAD ABOUT SAME SUBJECT EVERY DAY.

We are consistently urged to use the search function. This is the result. Its silly to complain about people not using the search function and then complain when they actually do...

This thread has relevance to the other current thread (there are all of two, mind you, not a new one every day) because it shows a response from Anet on the matter over a year ago.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoogi

Syncing is NOT cheating, nothing could be done by anet to stop it and nothing should be done by anet to stop it. It's not as near as common as you make it look anyway.

Its cheating. Plain and simple. I'd like to see your explanation of how it isnt.

Random arenas are supposed to be random. Part of the play of that arena is to deal with the random selection of classes you are presented with, randomly, and work towards a winning streak. Builds used in RA by definition then are different than those in TA. If syncing worked only 50% of the time, you'd still see at least one synced team on your way to a winning streak, which includes a coordinated build and use of teamspeak. Hard to beat for an honestly random team. If you want to play in a team, use team arenas.

Also, all Anet has to do is randomize the event where the player hits the enter button, so that its actually read by the system randomly 1-15 or so seconds after pressed (not visible to players). The odds of four players syncing would then truly be random. Even if you all hit the button at the same time, its going to be read at different times. Random. Like its supposed to be. Like it will never be. There is, at least, an easy fix.

Shayne Hawke

Departed from Tyria

Join Date: May 2007

Clan Dethryche [dth]

R/

16 Oct 2008 at 14:32 - 230

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daenara

Silly to resurrect an old thread when the current one is still going.

QFT.

@OT: Syncing is cheap and makes arenas like RA turn into an imbalance of skill and coordination even if one team has two synced teammates together.

However, I feel that if ANet isn't going to care enough to fix it, I'm not going to care enough to avoid abusing it myself. Besides, AP said that it was up to the designers on whether it'd be a serious enough issue, and it's only going to get fixed if more people abuse it to point out how the system is flawed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

Its cheating. Plain and simple. I'd like to see your explanation of how it isnt.

I would argue that as this issue/exploit becomes discussed and it becomes public knowledge, more people will try to use it as an edge. The more people learn to use it as an edge, the less of an edge it becomes, simply because more people are using it. At some point, it can't be considered cheating if too great a population is using it to boost themselves, and at that point, ANet should have fixed it.

Gargle Blaster

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2005

16 Oct 2008 at 14:33 - 231

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

So if I find a way to duplicate an item, that only works 70% of the time it would not be a problem? I would not be banned right?? Right??

Random means random... so that if you join RA with a Buddy you may or may not be on the same team... there is no exploit here it is how random works.

N1ghtstalker

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2007

E/

16 Oct 2008 at 14:59 - 232

/signed for banning syncers

Raul the Rampant

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2008

Wisconsin

[LaiD]

R/

16 Oct 2008 at 17:18 - 233

A touch late, but this was on the right track...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

You have 100 spheres in a bowl. 96 are black and 4 are red. You randomly pick them up and place them in groups of four. Each group is filled before a new group is started. What are the probabilities to get 4,3 or 2 red ones in the same group?
The same but the spheres are queued and the groups are done by taking the first sphere in the queue and then the second a.s.o.. What are the probabilities then? This one would completly depend on the distribution of the red spheres in the queue and the position of the first red sphere.

If the red spheres are right behind each other (that is what syncing is trying to do), than all 4 are in the same group, if the first red sphere is at position 5, 9, 13 a.s.o..

Right, which is why most syncing occurs in mostly empty districts as it increases the chances of all being in a row. Thus why it has been suggested that condensing empty districts and/or implementing a more complex random queue system may be decent fixes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

People simply don't know and apparently don't want to know what an exploit is. Even after the definition according to both the video game dictionary and game developers has been given people just ignore it. You will find that when it comes to ethical concerns like cheating people will invent all sorts of nonsensical reasons to try and make their actions seem right in their own eyes. It works the same way as religious fundamentalism. Get an idea -> Assume idea is correct -> Ignore contradicting evidence -> Keep idea forever.

and

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

Random arenas are supposed to be random. Part of the play of that arena is to deal with the random selection of classes you are presented with, randomly, and work towards a winning streak.

You're assuming that the current system is not operating as it was intended based on the word 'random' being in the name. But anet has precedents already set where skill descriptions do not match exactly what the skills do (here's a list of skill anomalies on the unofficial wiki if you want to check... not all apply to this post but several do); this seems to be another case where clearly the description does match the actual operation. Either the random team generator is flawed or the name of the arena is flawed compared to how it was intended, but we have not got a definitive answer on this. We have a somewhat ambiguous statement from anet here that told us they are aware of it but no follow-up response was provided so we don't know for sure which end the problem is on (post #14 in the thread):

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

And you can start by contradicting this:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...hlight=syncing

The lack of a follow-up implies that it is not considered a serious problem, but implied isn't good enough; however, it could be because the dev's can't come up with a good way to fix it but don't want to admit it, too. I personally believe the former, but I'm not going to pretend I'm the ultimate authority on it either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

So if I find a way to duplicate an item, that only works 70% of the time it would not be a problem? I would not be banned right?? Right??

Not that I'm condoning syncing, but duping items provides you with material benefits in the game, which can be used to get you money/items/whatever. Syncing in RA gives you a chance (not guaranteed as some insist... synced teams face each other, too) to get a (or multiple) glad points that can be used to get you... uh, a worthless title that has no benefit to it other than existing in the HoM and some e-peen gratification. While the material benefits are also for the HoM and e-peen, I'd still argue that material > immaterial.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

The more people learn to use it as an edge, the less of an edge it becomes, simply because more people are using it. At some point, it can't be considered cheating if too great a population is using it to boost themselves, and at that point, ANet should have fixed it.

I'd agree with that first sentence completely, but the "well everyone else is doing it" defense rarely turns out well.

shoogi

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2007

Ray

16 Oct 2008 at 18:14 - 234

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

You think Anet should not do anything so you can sync further?

So if I tell people to stop QQing about syncing it means that I do sync RA all day? lol, I don't have people to sync RA with even if I wanted to, as all my guildies/friends left GW a long time ago. And even if I did have guildies to sync with I would play gvg, not waste my time on RA. You don't know me, don't post stuff about me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

Its cheating. Plain and simple. I'd like to see your explanation of how it isnt.

It does not violate the EULA. Plain and simple. They do nothing which is unacceptable or broken. Anet can only do something against players if they violate the agreement.
After NF came out that guild StaR found out that Sig of ghostly might is bugged and you can cast it on players, so they went into gvg with 8 w/rts and rushed the guild lord. Yes, it is not fair. Yes, it is exploiting a flaw in the game. Yes, it is 'lame'. Is it cheating? Should Anet have banned them for this? No, because it doesn't violate any part of the EULA.

Yes, syncing is a bit unfair and doesn't really work with what RA was supposed to be, but it's not against the rules. Anet shouldn't ban syncers, they have nothing to ban them for. The only thing that can be done against syncers (as I said, banning is NOT an option) is change the matching system so it's harder to sync.

Which leads me to my final point- I recall only one or two times when I was up against a sync team. Syncs are about 1% of the teams in RA. It's not such a big issue that makes RA unplayable (as leaving and leeching were before dishonor was added).

And one definitely final point- Why don't people QQ about stuff that really breaks the game (i.e. expert's dexterity, retarded HA mechanics), we don't get many responses from Anet here, so at least save them for something useful.

DreamWind

Forge Runner

Join Date: Oct 2006

E/Mo

16 Oct 2008 at 19:24 - 235

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

It is an exploit. I explained why a few pages back. Every major game developer and publisher I have worked for and know would classify this as an exploit and have it filed under the same database as game bugs.

Then I want a list of these devs and publishers. If you can prove to me that this is a flaw in the game be my guest. I said earlier, Anet has no intentions of fixing it and there is no penalty for doing it. Hell every official discussion of it lists it as "no big deal". RA DESIGNED that way=no flaw. The only reason this is even brought up is because of titles. Remove the source, remove the "problem" which isn't even a big problem. They'd be better off fixing real problems with their game. This is almost as bad as those people in Gunz who think Kstyle is an exploit.

SuruBl4ck

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Oct 2008

New York, United States

Go Us [ftw]

Me/Mo

16 Oct 2008 at 20:58 - 236

It's not against the rules.

However, I still don't support it.

icedwhitemocha

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

Ancestral/Grenz

[CneX]

W/

16 Oct 2008 at 21:12 - 237

I don't see what the big deal is.

In order to stop syncing, they'd need to "break" the randomness of RA. And guess what; with all the districts available now it makes it even harder to stop 4 man sync teams. They'd have to do some rewriting on team formation to "fix" it, and I can't see that happening.

Why is this 12 pages???

Kashrlyyk

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

16 Oct 2008 at 23:51 - 238

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raul the Rampant

....
Not that I'm condoning syncing, but duping items provides you with material benefits in the game, which can be used to get you money/items/whatever. Syncing in RA gives you a chance (not guaranteed as some insist... ....

Balthasar Factions can be turned into Zaishen keys, which sell for 4p.

Duping was only used as an example. How about a bug with a skill that kills the Guild Lord instantly with a 70% chance? Would that be ok, or would the exploiters be banned?

DreamWind

Forge Runner

Join Date: Oct 2006

E/Mo

17 Oct 2008 at 00:43 - 239

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

How about a bug with a skill that kills the Guild Lord instantly with a 70% chance? Would that be ok, or would the exploiters be banned?

They had that with 100% chance and it was fixed very quickly. Syncing has been in existence since the beginning because no fix is required.

Raul the Rampant

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2008

Wisconsin

[LaiD]

R/

17 Oct 2008 at 00:45 - 240

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

Balthasar Factions can be turned into Zaishen keys, which sell for 4p.

Alright, you got me on that, but I'm not convinced that is the reason people sync; I still think it's still glad points that they're after. It's no faster to get balth faction from RA than any other form of pvp or even trapping Zaishen. The most balth you can get from a single RA match on a not double weekend is 180 assuming it's flawless. To get a key from that would require ~25 flawless ones in a row (adding in 50 faction every 5 matches for the streak bonus), which at 2 minutes per match (counting down time in between) takes about an hour; since 25 flawless in a row that consistently fast even as a synced team is fairly ambitious (especially if you don't leave after 10 and restart as you're moved to TA anyway... syncing perfectly 3 times in a row to get 25 this way isn't a given either) you're probably looking at closer to an hour and a half minimum. Going in to AB puts you up against mindless and thoroughly predictable NPCs and a decent array of absolutely horrible player builds... in that same hour and a half you spend ABing your side should get 500 total kills (5k balth faction) pretty easily even if matches aren't constant. Do some rspike in HA and you'll get faction and fame for each victory on top, as opposed to faction and a glad point every 5 wins in RA/TA. Might be a little slower, but you'll get an emote to boot...

I'll stop now before I further depress myself as I realize just how overboard I'm getting on this, but my point is that (unless I missed something) RA is no more efficient as a faction farm than anything else in the pvp realm. I don't think this is the real motivation for people syncing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

Duping was only used as an example. How about a bug with a skill that kills the Guild Lord instantly with a 70% chance? Would that be ok, or would the exploiters be banned?

That zergspike mess that was floating around for the last month or so was exactly this, was it not? Essentially instakill the Guild Lord by exploiting a flaw in the terrible AI. This was promptly (well for them) corrected by anet, but since this was discovered simply through the use of ordinary gameplay and within the rules it was not an exploit. Since syncing in RA was discovered through ordinary gameplay and (from what we can tell) is not outside the official rules, I don't see a difference.

EDIT: Dreamwind beat me to it.