Is GW Really Losing People? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

pumpkin pie

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

behind you

bumble bee

E/

10 Nov 2008 at 07:33 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kagome

Because I think its really crowded. o_O I dunno why my friends say that its losing people... its right behind WoW and ahead of a lot of MMOs. :P

And its really fun and free! XD

Don't care

not my department to worry about GW making money/or loosing players!

But if you ask if I see lots of players still, the answers is yes! and i hope they go away, so I have the server to myself without lag!!!!! mwahahaha

Valcion

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2007

A/

10 Nov 2008 at 07:54 - 42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Secksy

I find it funny that WC3 has more minutes played than GW.

8D

DotA alone probably log more minutes than GW.

ElinoraNeSangre

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

Near Seattle, WA

Talionis De Cineris [EXUR]

N/Me

10 Nov 2008 at 09:03 - 43

I really have no idea. I know the people that leave are way more vocal than the people that stay and are happy. I haven't played much the last number of months since I picked up a new game addiciton, but interestingly I logged in today for giggles and saw an awful lot of people all over the place, more than I'd previously noticed, which was interesting.

Shasgaliel

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2008

[bomb]

10 Nov 2008 at 09:06 - 44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esan

If you want less than speculation, look at the historical alliance juggernauts that were going full steam with no sign of decay as recently as 6 months ago. XoO is done. SNOW is done. SMS is moribund if not dead. oOo has been gone so long, people have forgotten it ever existed. What do we have left? Just TAM and Liar? Those who deny that this game is dying are probably those who still think McCain/Palin can win.

On the other hand German guilds flourish. You can still pug DOA, Deep, Urgoz from DE districts. Since EOTN the spread of population increased, people are spread also between language servers. Then people play in different time zones. That is why it all seems to be deserted in Pve. Only in Pvp you see a real decline. During events I saw for example 17 Polish and even more Russian disctr in LA. Do you really think that all those people play only during events? No they just do not sit in outposts all the time. Some people go some people come. The only thing which is dying I think is guild wars pvp.

Just because people you know are gone does not mean everyone is gone...

cosyfiep

are we there yet?

Join Date: Dec 2005

in a land far far away

guild? I am supposed to have a guild?

Rt/

10 Nov 2008 at 09:27 - 45

I am still playing, however, I also still have sid meiers alien crossfire on my computer as well as civ 3..........my hubby is bored of the game so he plays less and less, my other guildmate has logged on about 3 times in the last year.

its not dead...............................yet.

RomBurns

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2006

Strike Force

Mo/Me

10 Nov 2008 at 09:31 - 46

I came to GW from a game, originally released in 1996 - never had more than a couple of hundred people online at any one time, yet a very healthy and active community and only came to eventual close in early 2006 when genuinely no one was playing it any more. We were in constant downturn due to the fact people were defecting from 1999 onwards to other games, mainly EQ. Sure a lot of us would post comments of 'omg the game is dying' - but really for death to occur it would take either a complete stop in new development (not happening) - thus implying that the servers would then get taken down. Or we are years into the future whereby *everyone* has stopped playing.

Games have a natural cycle, what you read as 'dying' - I read as the less committed, more fickle people deciding to move on to new games. That happens everywhere. What you get left with is more and more of the dedicated folks so the proportion of people leaving becomes less. I don't know why people are surprised, but I would suggest that the notion the game is 'dying' - misguided. Sure at some point the numbers of new people buying the game will make current operation of the servers uneconomical. I doubt things are anywhere close to that, but I would accept that the games eventual shutdown will come sooner than perhaps other pay to play MMOs.

People seem to be 'the glass is half empty' round here (excepting the people that just post armageddon is upon us - when they've already stopped playing) - by the logic displayed here every game is 'dying' from the very moment it is released. WoW may be adding new subscribers currently, but we all know for a nigh on certain fact that will eventually reverse. Its the end of MMO civilisation I tell you!

Test Me

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2008

E/

10 Nov 2008 at 09:32 - 47

From my personal experience, as that is the only thing I can asses: it's dying.

All my friends left the game. Some where late to play GW and by the time they understood "builds" and managed to get something working they couldn't survive the first couple of nerfs and I couldn't explain/justify why they needed to adapt. It really didn't help them stick and they found the game pretty boring.

I started the game long ago and my experience was totally different, but I can see how it all turned out that way for newcomers these days.

When I log in, i'm usually the only one active in my guild (medium sized guild) and often the only one active in my entire alliance.

Wish I could say GW is dead long live GW2 though... but they just want to keep it a big secret so that maybe even us forget there is ever going to be a GW2 and we move on to something else? Sometimes I don't see the point of all this secrecy. As far as we know right now, there might even not be any GW2 didn't see any release time hint except: it will be ready when it will be ready, which may be never if NCSoft gets bad on money by then.

SkekSister

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2008

Brighton UK

10 Nov 2008 at 10:13 - 48

Most of the people posting that the game is dead are those who have played it a long time and frankly should have quit a long time ago. However they stay on to troll and tell the new people that they should go play something else because 'this game is dead'. What they should in fact do is take their own advice and move on.

My Guild is about the same size and has the same number of active members it always has, though these are not the same people obviously.

When I log in on a Saturday or Sunday there are almost always more people pming me with something to do than I have playing time. So for me though less people are playing, the game is far from dead. Just a bit quieter, which is a blessing imo...

Scary

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2007

Uhmmmm??

Limburgse Jagers [LJ]

N/

10 Nov 2008 at 10:16 - 49

From mine point of view.....

Yes there are a lot less people as there where 1 a 2 a 3 a almost 4 years
ago.
but that is normal after such a long time in a game, and as mentioned before
there are new people starting the game. There are lots of people asking things
that makes you feel,.. yes...newbies we can help again met questions we have
seen just in the beginning in the game.

So.. no GW isnt dead ant it wont be for a long time... just the people who
are bord with it leave the game and it isnt just that massive anymore... just a normal thing

4thVariety

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

European Union

ADL

E/

10 Nov 2008 at 10:31 - 50

Taking the active districts during the events as an indication, the population has decreased over the summer. Forum activity might also be an indication. Although it's slowing down 10%, there is no real reason to say that GW was dying.

Observing the population ingame, the current players are rather obsessive about their long term grinding goals, while the playerbase not concerning itself with titlegrind and gold farming is a bit scarcer.

If anything, people seem to be on the edge even more than before, so reactions to nerfs and rebalances are volatile as ever. This should come as no surprise, since specialization of most players goes so far that they do not seem to play that many different things.

Windf0rce

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

10 Nov 2008 at 10:41 - 51

FOR ME, the game is not dying and that's what matters. I have fun and my friends still play - if they quit I'll find new friends to play with.

Now for some 1337 GURU people, it's already dead years ago. They don't play anymore, they just come here to b*tch and whine, sure, sure I belive it. lmao, ignore them.

Abedeus

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jan 2007

Niflheim

R/

10 Nov 2008 at 10:51 - 52

Quote:

if they quit I'll find new friends to play with.

So if your friend dies, you will replace him, too? What kind of a friend is that? What kind of a friend YOU are?

Quote:

These types of threads are the staple of Riverside. Without these threads, Riverside would be a dry, boring place.

Well, I'd say there are more people on Guru through the whole day then logged in GW right now.

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

10 Nov 2008 at 10:54 - 53

Yes.
Most of the people I loved playing with left.
And the game itself isn't fun enough to negate that loss.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

So if your friend dies, you will replace him, too? What kind of a friend is that? What kind of a friend YOU are?

Oh Aby - fun as always!

disarm76

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Portugal

10 Nov 2008 at 10:55 - 54

I had about 30 regular players with whom I played. Now there's 1-3 online on special weekends only. I log on once-twice a week just to check if there's anything new.

GW is/was the greastest MMO IMO. Less players but non the less.

Inscriptions ruined it all. (made everything worth almost nothing).

DreamWind

Forge Runner

Join Date: Oct 2006

E/Mo

10 Nov 2008 at 10:55 - 55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Well, I'd say there are more people on Guru through the whole day then logged in GW right now.

LOL...yea because all the people who quit the game still troll the forums but don't log on the game.

I would actually like to see the official count from Anet but I bet they would never release that information.

Shasgaliel

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2008

[bomb]

10 Nov 2008 at 11:02 - 56

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

LOL...yea because all the people who quit the game still troll the forums but don't log on the game.

Or because they can troll the forum while being at work and be able to play only when they get home.....

disarm76

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Portugal

10 Nov 2008 at 11:10 - 57

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

LOL...yea because all the people who quit the game still troll the forums but don't log on the game.

Yes, I do that often. It's a old habbit, when I got nothing to do, I check guru. It's like smoking, adictive as hell :P

Rhamia Darigaz

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2008

10 Nov 2008 at 11:24 - 58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rak Orgon of Beowulf

i think its losing 2 kinds of people.

1.The 30 max titles, Choas gloves, FoW epeen types who are "too good" for such a "fail" game the ones who say "blah blah blah i remember when a 20/20 sword hilt was 75K" "GW is Dead"

I think the economy in GW is more stable than ever.

2.New people who are shut out by people group #1 "you dont have the cookie cutter build and therefore you cant get in our PuG or team arenas group cause all we care about is glad points"

butthurt? :/

ele pl

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2007

E/

10 Nov 2008 at 11:27 - 59

I need to agree, that number of players decreased recently. When i was starting my journey with GW 2 years ago, i could find a pug for certain mission very easy. Now, those missions are dead, without guild you have to h/h it. But Guild Wars itself is not dying. Games like that, die cuz of players. If you guys, all say that gw is dying, it is dying. Community is one of the most important parts in on-line game. If players can kill this game, they can get it back to life. On the other hand, now, we need some content, some big update, which will make players come back to gw. Lets hope title update, or content updates in 2009 will make something like that. If you need economy, lets just add some very rare weapons and some random dungeon where it drops. Those weps will cost a lot. Economy problem solved. What next?

Chocobo1

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2007

New Zealand

CoA

N/

10 Nov 2008 at 11:29 - 60

It's just the point where you've got 3-4 characters kitted out and you realize whats the point in doing it all again. There isn't anything new or exciting, characters don't add any different flavor to it you are still doing the same thing over and over.

SkekSister

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2008

Brighton UK

10 Nov 2008 at 11:40 - 61

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

It's just the point where you've got 3-4 characters kitted out and you realize whats the point in doing it all again. There isn't anything new or exciting, characters don't add any different flavor to it you are still doing the same thing over and over.

So do you choose to:

1) Stop playing the game but continue to QQ on the forums to tell everyone else to also stop playing because you personally have used up all the content?

2) Move onto another game.

So many GW players seem to do the former. I really don't understand why when there are so many other better things to be doing and so many fantastic games out at the moment...

Pleikki

WTB q8 15^50 Weapons!

Join Date: Nov 2006

???oo ???ugs ???lan [?????????]

10 Nov 2008 at 11:45 - 62

Gw loses players all the time, well they get few new atsame ofc but not as much, ppl boored to wait gw2 so they moved to other games, many ppl playing Diablo 2 then diablo 3 then back to gw 2 for now..

daze

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2008

In my own mind

The Dragon Exchange

E/

10 Nov 2008 at 11:50 - 63

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

Or because they can troll the forum while being at work and be able to play only when they get home.....

Yep, that about summs it up for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkekSister

I really don't understand why when there are so many other better things to be doing and so many fantastic games out at the moment...

Fable II.. Weeeee

garethporlest18

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

[HiDe]

W/

10 Nov 2008 at 11:54 - 64

The game is dying, it's not dead of course. But there is no question that it is dying.

Numa Pompilius

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

At an Insit.. Intis... a house.

Live Forever Or Die Trying [GLHF]

W/Me

10 Nov 2008 at 11:56 - 65

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kagome

Because I think its really crowded.

Funny you should ask that. There was a period some months ago when GW really seemed to have lost a lot of people, but recently I've seen a lot, and I mean a LOT, of new people who've moved from WoW. You basically can not go to RA without seeing people asking things like how to get to the PvE area.

Also for the first time in ages I've seen more than one district in some European English areas even when there's no event (there seems to be more french and german people playing than english).

It seems people actually get tired of WoW eventually too. How about that.

Fril Estelin

So Serious...

Join Date: Jan 2007

London

Nerfs Are [WHAK]

E/

10 Nov 2008 at 11:56 - 66

I guess the question is not clear: many players aren't "going away" because they're simply playing the game from time to time, irregularly and when they have the time. A game like GW can't be dead, because by the very nature of free2play, you can happen to not play for 1 month, but play a lot the next, or not play for 6 months and then come back. Of course, at a given point in time, you can compare estimates of the number of people playing at this time, and it seems obvious that this number is decreasing (a good example of that being the number of districts in LA and Kamadan during MKT's hat event). But contrarily to pay2play games, you're not a "subscriber", your GW account is permanent and you don't feel obliged to come each month because you're paying for that.

So we can find valid arguments to answer yes and no to the OP, the same way there are valid arguments to "prove" and "disprove" (double-quote because it's a matter of opinion, unless you're Anet and know the numbers) that GW1 is dead. I think people are in fact talking about their personal experience of GW1 now compared to months/years ago, you see less people on the guild roster, in AC, in the towns/cities where you play/chat, or less GvG games. It's also the nature of MMOs to look for people, they're supposed to be online, meaning you're supposed to meet and play with people (apart from the technical aspect that the architecture is client-server, I'm talking about the gameplay), and GW1 feels a lot less MMO than the other MMOs out there (it's also because at one point Anet decided to make the game single-playable).

But, and it's a big (huge IMHO) "but", it's free2play, you can always put it aside for a while and come back (look at The Return in PvP, I can imagine how difficult it's for them to come back from the very top after years of inactivity, yet these guys are here for the fun and I guess they got some). Anet may well have our money, but they're not asking for more.

Amnel Ithtirsol

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2008

AU

League Of The Fallen

Mo/

10 Nov 2008 at 12:22 - 67

Personal opinion but yes, I also think the populace is in decline. I remember when I started how many districts we had in both euro and American servers, now euro (english) is basically dead. I did notice though, as someone else pointed out already, that there seems to be an influx of German and French players lately. Not sure why though but it could have been some additional marketing in those countries...

New content will go a long way in saving this game though. And not BMP type crap, no, I'm talking about additional dungeons or other elite areas for the remaining gods. A full expansion would have been the best but that will never happen.
Scary thing is, I'm willing to pay a lot for a tiny bit of extra content at this stage...

Mixie

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2007

GV

10 Nov 2008 at 12:24 - 68

GW made a huge success staying alive all this time (and is NOT dead yet). I for my part have left just recently and am playing LOTRO for a month or so now. I`ve never played anything besides from GW before and with LOTRO i found out what a morpg really is. GW is NOT a morpg. It is a game for PvP players. No crafting, no weapons that differ in anything but skins, no armors that differ in anything but skins, no traits, no deeds, lvl 20 cap, etc.. I had my time with it, got bored, overbored, and finally bored to death. Finished FOW, UW, DOA, normal mode, hard mode and there was nothing left to do apart from extremely boring and time consuming title chasing. I like LOTRO because it has so much to offer that gw does not and i dont mind paying monthly fee. I`d burn that money for something else for sure, so why not burn it for something i really like. No monthly fee in gw, but no more fun as well.

Kashrlyyk

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

10 Nov 2008 at 12:31 - 69

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

There are more people quitting than there are joining and staying. It's dying.

Source?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

It's been out for less than 2 months and it has almost a quarter of the players Guild Wars ever had.

Warhammer is a well known franchise with a huge fanbase. Just like LotR and Age of Conan. You can barely compare them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

....People who are saying it's dying are just being honest and accepting the fact.

Sounds more like the creation of a self fulfilling prophecy.

Ellix Cantero

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2005

10 Nov 2008 at 12:38 - 70

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rak Orgon of Beowulf

1.The 30 max titles, Choas gloves, FoW epeen types who are "too good" for such a "fail" game the ones who say "blah blah blah i remember when a 20/20 sword hilt was 75K" "GW is Dead"

Yeah, newbs. I remember when a 10/10 sword hilt was 75k!

The game probably has close to as many people playing it currently as ever. Your friends probably feel that way because people they've known in-game for a while and have on their friends list might be leaving/taking a break. I've got a ton of people on my FL from '05, most of whom I haven't seen in a long time and probably won't see again. Guildwars is still bringing in new players though, so it's far from abandoned or empty.

Also, it absolutely is the #2 MMO behind WoW if you take the 3.5 year average of people playing it. You'd be on crack to think that as many people as who play GW will still be playing LotRO, WAR, or AoC 3.5 years after release.

Windf0rce

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

10 Nov 2008 at 12:57 - 71

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

So if your friend dies, you will replace him, too? What kind of a friend is that? What kind of a friend YOU are?

lol, oh well, note I never said 'replace', but 'find new ones'. People are unique and irreplaceable, yes, but one must move on with life, whatever happens, right? I do that in GW, where 'friends' are more like gaming mates, not like real life friends.

Numa Pompilius

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

At an Insit.. Intis... a house.

Live Forever Or Die Trying [GLHF]

W/Me

10 Nov 2008 at 13:23 - 72

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Approximate number of people playing GW currently = (A/B)*C

So 3-4 times as many as play EVE?
Interesting. I would not have guessed that.

Also the difference is probably bigger than that as the GW server model exclusively using instances is much more efficient than using persisten world.

Alex Dimitri

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2007

Passionate Kiss Of Nosferatu [KISS]

N/Mo

10 Nov 2008 at 13:31 - 73

As much it sadness me GW is dying, like someone said it previous posts once u go trough it with few chars it losses it`s appeal.I just hope the GW2 will come before "total" end of this game.One thing that could revive it (but ain`t gonna happen) is new content, no new titles or same old stuff gonna do any good!

Abedeus

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jan 2007

Niflheim

R/

10 Nov 2008 at 13:54 - 74

Quote:

Also, it absolutely is the #2 MMO behind WoW if you take the 3.5 year average of people playing it

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHH

Oh Jesus Christ, merciful God, holy Saints, Bodhisattvas and others... You know this is such a horrible lie it would make you the biggest liar in the whole world?

Games that have more active players than GW and are as old or older than GW:

1. WoW.
2. Ragnarok Online (2 mln in US, tons more in Asia)
3. Lineage 2 (14 mln worldwide, but mostly Asia).
4. Tons of MMO's from Asia/Korea I don't remember or I don't want to.

Alleji

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

10 Nov 2008 at 13:59 - 75

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

All cities in all campaigns in all countries? You seriously doubt that? Wow.

You also have to take into account those that are not in district cities, and are in their own play area at any one time.

Also, we are talking PEAK times. Absolute peak on non holiday events (Halloween and Christmas) So, it isn't that crazy to suggest 150k.

I thought any district in any outpost fits only 100 people, but that's really irrelevant because the rest of your math is full of crap.

Not everyone is sitting in an outpost, you know. What percentage of people aren't? 20%? 50%? 70%? You don't know.

Oh, and don't start speculating. We already have enough bogus (50% of WoW accts are gold farmers? lol) and downright wrong (WoW = 12 mil? Right. They officially said 11 just a week ago) numbers in this thread.

P.S. 40% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

Shasgaliel

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2008

[bomb]

10 Nov 2008 at 14:06 - 76

I found this chart on the net:

http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart7.html

I do not see GW even listed there.....

I only could find GW listings in the quality ratings. Nothing regarding its user base. So where the hell some people got their news that GW is behind WOW in the userbase?

EDIT:

I found this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_MMORPGs

here you can see 5mil based on the number of copies sold which does not reflect the number of actual players. Anyway even this number is not the second best in the table.

Ate of DK

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Netherlands

None but Fools [nuts]

10 Nov 2008 at 14:17 - 77

GW was at it's peak when factions was released. Probably 2,5-3mil people playing who all together boufght 4 mil accounts since they had limited character space...

Outposts used to be much more crowded. But after 3 years, those 500.000 players that still play, have done every mission 5 times... you get the point...

GW has been dying since the introduction of heroes, announcing GW2 and saying that the skill-balance got out of hand and everything will be better with GW2.

We now have reached the days that every simple bug-fix, that would take 3min, is celebrated like christmas. And it's most certainly not that they are running out of things to fix like the old days.

Now we've been promised such a large update for next thursday that should be longer that Sorow's Furnaces !update notes! Don't bet on new content, they change excisting titles for the noobs but those who maxed them gain something new to do? The more reason for them to look for new things.

No new content = Dying game.

WinterSnowblind

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2007

10 Nov 2008 at 14:31 - 78

There are a lot of the players coming in all the time, and there's clearly thousands of people still playing the game. A lot of people are leaving due to lack of new content..

But it's certainly not a "dying game".

Numa Pompilius

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

At an Insit.. Intis... a house.

Live Forever Or Die Trying [GLHF]

W/Me

10 Nov 2008 at 14:36 - 79

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

I do not see GW even listed there.....

Because it's not considered an MMORPG; it's design make it difficult to compare with subscription-based games which have persistent worlds.

So, witht that in mind: the server tracking which Zwei2stein linked to earlier suggests that GW has 3-4 times more players online at any time than EVE, which would make it fourth or fifth in the chart you link to, about the size of Final Fantasy XI. If, and it's a big if, it can really be compared to MMORPGs at all.

Jenn

Resigned.

Join Date: Sep 2006

10 Nov 2008 at 14:57 - 80

Why do people keep screaming "SOURCE!@!" at others who make statements out of observations? Do you really think that more people are joining this game these days than there are people deciding not to sign on?

Think about activity influxes that occur within the 3-6 months after a new campaign+EotN were released... most outposts had 1 full district, and sometimes even 2 or 3. The main towns had anywhere from 3-10 districts. After these initial months, activity NOTICEABLY drops off and you can't get a group for almost any mission anymore. The clear difference between EotN and Factions and NF is that there is no more. EotN has been out for over a year, and coupled with other issues this game has, there is no reason to believe that Guild Wars has a healthy active population, or one that is even growing.