Balancing PvE

Skill splits were needed drastically.

That's the only thing im saying on that topic.

How fast can u clear DoA, UW, FOW or any other elite area in HM with SY! and how fast could you do it with the old UB?

If SY! was the name as Ursan Blessing with a small buff, tell me how people aren't organizing groups of 7 warriors, all running SY! with 1 HB monk?

Oh wait, you don't know what you're talking about.

Only Eternal grove. Both the others are quite easy in HM with only h/h.

UB without SY! around 2hours , with SY! less than 2 hours. Balanced (physical) runs are a bit over 2 hours if I remember correctly.
But that is besides the point. DOA isn't the only thing in GW , and furthermore DOA is one of the worst designed areas in GW.

But can you tell any other skill or build that is equal in terms of defense to the imbagon/DS spammer?

Smart people use imbagons/DS spammers , pugs run tank'n'spank/UB/other crap. Also that post was a comparison. UB was the most powerful offensive skill , while SY! is the most powerful defensive skill.

Balanced physical groups probably wont finish HM DOA.

UB was both offense and DEFENSE in terms of hps/armor and knock/weakness.

Shadow form tanks give as much defense if not more. Thats why they are used over imbagon.

EC conditions build is fun.

Sorry, I must have misread all those QQs about them.

Hard mode would actually be HARD if those things didn't exist.
Is it really that hard getting one more player? I always have at least one friend on thats willing to help do some HM stuff...
And I still want 7 heroes.

Sorry, but when I bought Guild Wars, it was nothing like this. You joined the forum in 2008, so I'm assuming you didn't play Guild Wars in 2005. We bought the game before these overpowered gimmick builds were around. We bought the right game, which got changed because the majority of players were bad at the game and QQ'd to ANet for years (sorry, looks like ANet did listen to the QQers)

You have no clue what QQing is, so stop using it. Does it look like I'm crying, or does it look like I'm giving constructive suggestions to ANet? You should see the amount of people who start whining when they begin defending the broken shit in PvE. So please, don't use words that you don't know the meaning to. And when talking about QQers, remember that people just like you whined to ANet for years.

The nature of balance in GW has changed dramatically since day 1.

GW once was balanced for a party of all live players. Now GW is balanced for a party with 2 players and 6 Heros. In the current form of GW any team of live players can steamroll just about any mission, regardless of any PvE skills or Cons.

You want the balance shifted back to a full live party but that just isn't reasonable at this stage of GW's life.

You're right, it isn't reasonable, and I never said it was, nor was I aiming for that. But what I do want to see is increased players in parties instead of players grabbing 3 heroes/4 henchies and easily going through hard mode. As it is, parties for general HM missions/vanquishes having 4 players and 4 heroes instead of 1 human and 7 AI would be a great improvement.

I'm not asking to completely kill everything that makes HM easy. I'm not asking to make it so you have to make parties of 8 people to do HM. All I'm asking for is that the overpowered skills get toned down (but still usable), and having more humans in your party encouraged.

Dont asume that someone who joins the forums at a certain date wasn't around for a while before hand, this isn't the epicentre of guildwars.

No, it's not. But when a new poster to say you bought the wrong game when I'm aiming to change PvE more towards what Guild Wars was, I'm not going to assume they played in 2005. No one who played in 2005 is going to say 'you bought the wrong game' when talking to people who dislike the power creep and overpowered builds.

The problem is that players are so accustomed to using H/H that it is all but impossible to change their way of thinking/playing at this point.

I have been playing from the start and do agree with most of what you are saying, I just don't agree that the skills are the problem. I believe the problem has always been Mission Design.

I'm sure you remember the original Thunderhead Keep mission. That was the fist mission that really forced players to split up inorder to win. Forced players to think as a Team rather than just a Mob. That only lasted for a while till people complained that the mobs at the gates were overwhelmingly difficult.

What we needed from the start were missions that were designed to create more teamwork than just a mob of people vs a mob of monsters. That, and that alone, would have encouraged people to play with live parties over H/H.

My opinion in this matter is this:

You want the chalenge->get with your friends/guildies and play a balanced build (like me and my guild always do with UW, FoW, etc).

You want to get an absurd amount of money to get an expensive weapon/armor-> play gimmick builds because is the fastest way to do that.

Why you want to nerf that skills?? I don't use that gimmick builds because I don't like them, but I also don't care if the other players use them. You and me and everyone else are not oblige to use them, if someone wants to steamroll every elite area good for them, that doesn't mess with the fun I have playing GW.

In conclusion, if they nerf the gimmick or not doesn't affect me, the only thing that I get pissed off is when they nerf a skill that I use in a normal way because some players use that to make a gimmick build. (and when they nerfed some skills that I use in pve because of pvp, luckly that has finish with the pve/pve skills split)

P.S.: sorry about my bad english but I'm portuguese

Oh okay thanks for clearing that part up, understand a little by how people might get alittle upset by asking for changes for people to play together more where by;

Player perception and current population is whats also making this game differcult to play with others.

A mindset that i see quite a few times on this forum and alot in the game is the the following;

All pug's groups suck, never play with them, always hero/hench

Its never me i can do these missions fine, i don't need to group with "noobs"

This mindset is boarderline stupid, by proxy whomever i group with "sucks" right? I know this isn't true....

You sometimes get a vicious circle of everybody else thinks everyone else sucks, sad thing is the truely bad/ignorant players are never going to own up and look in the mirror.

What i wanted to say was, people are effectivly degenerating this game, skill changes/balance are only a part of the problem.

I like most suggestions, however I feel that with your proposed Shadow Form change, it should either have a health loss or a loss of all enchantments when Shadow Form ends. Both would be a bit too much perhaps.

And with Save Yourselves! giving it an energy cost of 5 is a bit too much as well. I think connecting it to Strength and giving it a recharge would be enough. Of course the armor gain scaled according to the strength level sounds fine by me. As Cry of Pain being tied to Fast Casting

I wouldn't really know about Soul Reaping. I don't play a Necromancer that often and for heroes I usually use one necro. But I do know that SR is extremely powerful in PvE.....but that is coming from someone with a Ritualist as main character.

This has to win an award as the most retarded thought ever.. Sorry Akantos, but I would expect better from a Guru mod.

The problem.. you've admitted that everyone and their dog uses h/h to do PvE.. and then bitch about PvE skills that heroes and hench don't have access to..

Either the PvE skills are overpowered (in which case mass PuG's everywhere would be just CRYING out EVERYWHERE for those people with those skills), or the VASTLY inferior heroes with no access to PvE skills at all, are better at PvE than a player with over powered PvE skills (according to you)... Which is it? (here's a hint, it can't be both)

Sorry but there is no way I can agree to the changes you suggest, and no it's not because I use SF, or SY, or even CoP, it's because I'm sick and fed up, of other people DICTATING how I should be playing PvE, where what *I* do in one instance has absolutely no RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOING effect on what happens in ANY other instance.

And I'm so glad you aren't Anet's skill-balancer.

/not signed to infinity.

^this

I'll add my own suggestion to this suggestion for those of you who want to disagree with OP:

Don't.

Waste your time somewhere else.

On topic: I have never perma-shadowed, I do have an imbagon (but never really play it because it's boring as hell), and my main character is a Mesmer. These changes (while knee-jerk and a little overboard) wouldn't really negatively affect the style of play for myself or anyone I regularly group with. So, honestly, meh.

/undecided

Well as far as i see this thread is about balancing PVE skills not PVE itself. Nerf them too much and you'll throw many players into PVE void. There would be not a chance to do any elite area like UW/FOW for sins or mesmers for example without big and active guild - they aren't welcome classes in PVE.

And about PVE i doubt it could be balanced in a way that would make at least most players happy.