Why WOW can't kill Guild Wars

The no subscribtion fees is one factor but when those who saw the amazing graphics were sold on to game by then.

So am I. I sure hope it isn't proportional. If the relationship between cause and effect doesn't adher to a firm internal logic that's independent of the number of players, well... a game like that would suck.

...to the point where it's getting quite depressing. It's starting to take the route GW took: either A. unnecessarily dumbing down the game or B. catering to those who want it dumbed down. Pretty shitty either way.

HAW!

Look at the amount of players GW still has, then see how wow is more populated than its ever been. Pve is the same, difficult to find people, the same builds are always run. And pvp still seems too restricted with the same type of builds and skills, ostensibly gw has more skills and variety with builds, but really, very few are playable. Thats the way its always been with gw balance.

Well I think its basicaly like the Lottery..who do same numbers each week

WOW...guys have paid ?? monthly over a period of say 1 or 2 years

They cant stop playing as this means they are hooked also.they will not just stop as they have invested there cash over this time and do not wish to forfit what they have paid in..so, they have to keep up they monthly subscriptions

GW paid once and thats it , you can stay as long or as short on it as you wish.

So count the cost over say a 2 year period .with expansions /sub fees

Would you just stop after paying that ...I think not

Your logic makes no sense at all because if it did I would feel no obligation to play an amount of time equal to the $40-50 I pay for an expansion and instead would be just fine with a week of play and nothing else while for some reason a person who pays $30 is unable to play any less than 60 days of WoW due to some kind of addiction...

If people played for no reason than to make it worth the subscription they would just cancel it...

Why people compare GW to WoW btw?

Imho, GW's has the best graphix, I was looking at a few other rpg games this weekend, the other ones out there mostly have monthly fee's, with GW's I can come and go as I please but without paying a monthly fee. lol at fees, just lol. Isn't buying their game enough for these companies? greedy so and so's. I guess theres 11 million idiots out there, maybe I'm wrong

Granted that WoW has a ton of expansions and prolly gets a lot of updates, simple fact remains that if you compare a GW's char to a WoPaycraft, the GW's one will always look cooler (unless tonic'd, in that case, the GW's char looks like a retard :P)

Different games types for different people Although (I will admit similarities)

Compare - Apples & Pears - Carrots & cauliflower yes?

This thread will probably go nowhere ;( just like most if not all the WoW v GW threads we see.

People do, though. Sooner or later a person can realise that they're just throwing good money after bad and... stop.

Plus, I'm told these days Blizzard doesn't wipe your account if you stop paying - they just deny access. I guess they realised that they'd get more return customers if they didn't have that barrier to reentry.

I somehow disagree with that armor part. If you look at a max WoW char with a nice armor set, it'll look ORGASMIC. Sparkling bits and pieces here and there, glowing auras coming out of your giant pauldrons, and a giant sword/axe with glowing balls of magic eminating from it. It's insane... but really, what's it do for the character? Besides the usual "adding armor rating"... it doesn't do anything for the other abilities of your character. It hardly modifies your skills.

In gw, the armor's useful, and ties in with the skills you're using. The sets may not be as intricate and magnificent as WoW's armor sets, but you have something that's not OVERLY expensive, and keeps you looking forward for something as you're playing the game. That's the only reason I really got my warr through nightfall, because I wanted that primeval armor lol.

I don't know if you'll get my point (cuz I don't think I understand it all that much either lol) but I'm hoping I got it across

to be honest, i think once diablo 3 comes out, gw will and gw2 will lose a lot of potential customers

1. both are free to play
2. they are both not MMO style.
3. if it's like d2, then there is a lot of replayability compared to gw
4. d3 release date seems to be earlier than gw2. -> according to the interview given by d3 dev, they mentioned that the games are announced abt 1.5 yrs before launch. tht interview was released about 0.5 yrs ago. that mean the game should be out by 2010 or so.

i know for one thing, tht a lot of close friends of mine are going to get d3 instead of gw2. (approx 10% are going to get gw2 + d3. while 90% are going to get d3 only)...

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after seeing the way gw has developed over the last few yrs, i personally have gave up on it already. for my KoABD title.. i've only got 1 maxed title, and i don't intend to max anymore grid titles.

neither am i interested at the moment to purchase a gw2 as well (when it comes out)


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when i play d2 classic previously...
1. i'll shiver with anticipation when i got hostiled while playing 1/2 way, knowing that a wrong move would get me killed either by the pvper or the monster lurking behind the bush
2. i'll get excited when i picked a rare item / amulet / rings before other people. and id them hoping for a good mod
3. i can trade armors and such with other people
4. i can spend hours crafting a good build, and what skills to learn... coz if it's built wrongly, i have to recreate another one.

Some people prefer realistic armor and weapon set over glowing unrealistic-biggy things :P

/seconded

the cartoonieness of the WoW graphics are my biggest turn off... but look at most MMO's, even Lineage and a lot of others are at least somewhere in between

I've stopped my WoW account three times over the course of the three years I've had it, so yea, I would just stop paying after that if I didn't feel like playing anymore.

Because some video games attract fanboys who have a neurotic need to believe that the video game they personally choose to play is better than everything else, subjectivity be damned. In some sick, twisted way, they just can't accept that thier personal choice is their own and that other people may not feel the same way, or, worse yet, may not even care about such a ridiculous argument.

I think has something to do with a lack of sunlight and great potential for mold to grow in a mother's basement.

o.0

WoW was, for quite awhile, all about gear at the top levels. Getting a single piece of armor can mean the difference between wiping in a dungeon and clearing it to the point that there are actual "gear check" bosses that are nothing but a quick number crunch to make sure everyone in a raid has the appropriate gear and isn't trying to skip stages on the backs of other players.

Guild Wars, OTOH, has always been exactly the opposite. There is only one "max armor" for each class, two or three weapons to choose from, a couple mods for each weapon, and a handful of runes. Everything else is just digital candy in GW.

WoW isn't so gear-intensive as it used to be, but gear in WoW is geared much more heavily toward usefulness and customization, while gear in GW is almost exclusively about vanity items, especially in PvE where there's little reason to care about what gear you're using at all, outside of making sure it's maxed.

Actually that is one of the main reasons i have not tried so many other games Not just world of warcraft, top of my list is monthly fees I am no skinflint but i have enough bills with the kids/gym/food and other crazy stuff life throws at us every day.

It is very nice in guild wars to be able to load up and play a game without having to worry about paying for it...

You should not talk about all the WoW players like that!!!

Uh... you forgot the part where graphics are terrible, shoulders are 3x the size they should be (5x for taurens) and half of those "swords/axes with glowing auras" look less like a weapon and more like a bastard lovechild of a crystalline sword and a christmas tree.

You have to be a blind moron to think that visually WoW is better than GW.

Aye, I'm with you on that about paying, but there is one game I do every other month pay for and thats EvE Online...

I'm not sure what CTB was on about above about the game rules, but I've been playing for well over two years full on now and I still love to set up a harvester and and nom on some asteroids when I'm doing some work or watchinga film and the ships look stunning

however, that comes back tot he cartoonieness, i love the realistic look of the ships and that Star Trek feeling of flying around, hell, I'm in the Star tRek beta and EvE isstill better in my opinion

what?...i said gw's engine is technically more capable in producing better graphics than wow's engine...so why are you asking me to prove that wow is visually better than gw objectively?

but this would be a typical reason to think wow is better (includes both objectivity & subjectivity)... "despite wow's inferior graphics capabilities, i like the art direction that it has taken as it suits my tastes better, and i appreciate the amount of effort that went in to making good use of a limited engine, making it look very refined and polished." of course this is ridiculously long and needless, so people will simply say, "visually wow is better than gw."

A year or two ago a player found out that B.O.B. had a player in it who was on the dev team. That dev, t20, used his access to generate a bunch of super-rare blueprints for B.O.B. When the player exposed it, CCP banned him and stuck their fingers in their ears. When the playerbase finally forced their hand, they admitted it happened, issued a half-hearted apology, and that was basically it. The player is still banned, t20 is still employed, and B.O.B. got to keep their ill-gotten loot.

Also, recently, a couple players came out and admitted they'd been exploited a mining bug for years that allowed them to generate virtually infinite amounts of rare resources from moons on a nightly basis. They said they reported the bug a few times when they found it and were ignored by CCP, so they started to exploit it and used it to basically run roughshod over everyone else. Again, CCP tried to pretend nothing happened. They quietly fixed the bug and clammed up.

I like the game, but I can't stomach paying for it monthly when CCP apparently has such little regard for the basic rules of its own game.

You said it in response to a quote you pulled directly from my post, and that quote was a direct response to the statement I put to you. So unless you just quoted me for no reason and you're not defending that other guy (which, again, makes your response to me entirely pointless as it has nothing to do with me), my challenge to you is perfectly valid.

Great article. Short and I loved the read, it hits the nail on the head so to speak. I love what GuildWars has been able to do hanging under the shadow of World of Warcraft. I also put this article on Digg, so if you have a Digg account go ahead and Digg it.
http://digg.com/pc_games/News_OMGRPG..._Guild_Wars_PC

reading comprehension ftl

this is what you originally quoted: "You have to be a blind moron to think that visually WoW is better than GW."
then you changed it and wanted me to defend this bastardized version of it: "visually WoW is better than GW."
they mean two totally opposite things; one favours gw, the other favours wow...

Yes, I forgot to swap the game names when I summarized it, so sue me. Do you really expect me to believe you couldn't figure out the point?

I'm sorry but this is dumb. You might as well say Pac-Man has better graphics than Guild Wars because graphics are subjective and I think Pac-Man looks cooler.

But, you can do that with thousands of games. Both Diablo's, Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2, the hundreds of independent free mmos and mmorpgs, plus all the fpsers and rts games. So, GW really has nothing over any of those, plus it doesn't even offer more content like the WOW's and Everquests and the rest on a regular basis.

Nice try at trolling, but my statement was perfectly objective.

I said Guild Wars has better graphics. You can further break it down to say that GW has more detailed and more varied textures, higher polycount character models, better lighting, a dozen other things.

I also said that you have to be a moron to believe otherwise... which would also be true because you would be rejecting the above facts.

Polygon counts, dynamic lighting range, color palette, draw distances. There are definitely ways to quantify how good an engine looks relative to another. The art style is a different matter entirely.

[edit]Hurray for not reading the most recent post...

That's my point. He can't prove it because it's not an objective statement, it's his personal opinion. Which is fine, but maybe he ought to not going around calling people "blind morons" because they don't agree with his personal opinions.

No, you didn't. Your exact words are right there on page 9:

That's your exact post, word for word, my emphasis on the point I'm calling you out on.

Which is an argument that can be made, but that's not what he said. He called people "blind morons" if they didn't think Guild Was was "visually better" than WoW. For a quick lesson on why there's such a terribly important distinction to be made between the technical and artistic merits of a video game, see the old games "Tempest 2000" for the Jaguar or "Starfox" on the SNES. Objectively, on a purely technical level, they're graphical masterpieces. Frankly, I think they both look like crap because I hate that geometric art style with a passion.

Uh, not to break into your convo but Ctb, that's exactly what the guy did say. Guild Wars has better graphics. You must be reading something wrong.

Ctb stop arguing semantics you RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing idiot. How much of a nerd do you have to be to waste energy debating this stuff?

His post is on page 9, my verbatim quote of the entire thing is right above. Maybe I am reading something wrong, so here's what I see when I look at his post:

1. A subjective complaint that "shoulders are too big"
2. A subjective complaint about weapon enchant animations (the "glowing auras" he's referring to)
3. A subjective complaint about the stylization of the weapon skins

Then, he calls people who disagree that "WoW is [not] visually better than GW" "blind morons".

What's the objective argument of his post, then, that I'm missing? Whole thing sounds like an opinion to me, which is, like I said, perfectly cool, except that he decided to tack on the "blind morons" bit.

If it gets you that hot under the collar, use the ignore feature on me like I just did for you.

You didn't post your opinion, Ctb?

I might have, but I don't remember doing so offhand. I'm not harping on it because of the opinion, though, I'm harping on it because I don't think it's appropriate to call people "blind morons" for disagreeing with a personal opinion. I realize this is the internet and expecting anything better is usually a good way to set yourself up for disappointment, but still.

Personally, my favorite MMO in terms of artistic quality and style is neither WoW nor Guild Wars, it's Eve Online.

Uh...if somebody thinks Pac-Man has better graphics than Guild Wars I would call them a blind moron too.

This is not an arguable point. Sure, you might LIKE WoW graphics more than GW graphics, but GW graphics are better. That is all.

Hear Ye, Hear Ye!!!

So let it be said that it was said an done!

Hear Ye, Hear Ye!!!

Okay guys calm down & use your nerd rage energy and draw your character or something else!
http://artpad.art.com/artpad/painter/

From a technical standpoint, they are. However, appearance is opinion, nothing more and nothing less.

EDIT: Failure on my part. Feel free to delete this as it's just a "hurrr i agree wit u" post.

For someone whose has stated that his main purpose on this board is to mock other posters, you sure can dish it out but not take it. So what if he called people blind morons, you consistently do the same thing. I prove below that you have on many different occasions, then you put them on your ignore list after they make valid points(ask martin alvito), disagree with you or are steadfast in their opinions. For you to set yourself up as being offended at a comment or saying a comment is not appropriate like blind morons is laughable. You probably will not see this since you have me on your dreaded ignore list for people you think are not worth your time. Maybe someone can quote me so you will see it before it is deleted.

Lets review all the people/groups you have offended:

Here you insult all Guild War Players:
The Guild Wars players that are left anymore generally act like children, so it's time they start being treated like children.

and again:
Sadly, Guild Wars has become a lousy game full of lousy people,

again:
which actually might say more about how immature Guild Wars players are than it does about the quality of the game code.

again:
Welcome to Guild Wars: the worst gaming community on the internet.

Page one of post history:
All marketing majors:
I'll set my standards a little lower and accept a marketing major who can put his own shirt on without hanging himself.

All Age of Conan Players:
Age of Conan failed because it was a bad game full of nasty, childish people that nobody wanted to play with.

Here you accuse someone of "making it up":
I'm going to jump you because you're either complaining about problems that haven't existed for years or you're just making it up.

Here you tell someone that thier specualation is ridiculous:
Your ridiculous speculation on the motivations of millions of people you've never met aside

This is just page one of your post history. I shall continue:

Accused of poor reading and being a fool:
you just have poor reading comprehension. Other than that, welcome to ignore. I don't abide fools well, especially not when they get all smarmy because they don't take the time to think about what they read before getting all snippy.

Here you say the person arguing with you does not have a clue:
I'm arguing with somebody who wants to argue but doesn't know exactly what he's arguing about or against.

Here you completely insult someones posts:
Your entire post is nonsense.

Here you bust on a guy for poor math:
I realize even simple math is hard for some people

here you offend everyone on the internet:
What is it about the internet that makes people unable to make valid comparisons between like things?

Here you offend ANET
Question: Why is it so hard for people to believe that Anet doesn't want to release game info, because they don't want to (even if they have their reasons)?

Your answer: Because some of us don't want to believe that any gaming company could conceivably be that stupid?

I think that is sufficient, going through your posts is really kind of depressing.