Update - Thursday, March 5 - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

09 Mar 2009 at 19:03 - 161

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

You are ignoring the fact that even if scatter does get added, RoJ will still clear the shrines.

If that is your argument, then you can argue that RoJ is too powerful or needs to be toned down, but you cannot argue that the problem is that it does not cause scatter.

The main argument is the skill is bugged, it needs to be fixed.

Quote:

You guys miss the point behind Ray. The creeps think they see the light, instead they get judged by Balthazar. Nobody can run away from Balthazar duh. Beam the souls up Balthy, it's judgment day.

Sorry, but skills aren't balanced based on their name. Regardless of what the skills name is, but it's a bugged skill, and it needs to be fixed.

Quote:

But lets ask them: Anet, is 'Ray of judgment' working as intended? Thank you.

It's the only DoTAoE that doesn't cause scatter. All DoTAoE spells should. If this was intended, they would have included it when they announced the skill balance. They would have also commented on it (I'm sure Regina and Linsey have seen the comments enough times).

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

09 Mar 2009 at 22:20 - 162

@ Arkantos: Well the point was Ray of Judgment would become a playable elite. They succeeded in that. If they add scatter, the skill will end up being mediocre again, not worth to take it as there are way better alternatives.

What can I say, I really like the skill as it is, even though it's against the 'rules'. It won't make me a better player, that's true. But it's a hell of a lot of fun and that's why I play this game. Smiting didn't get much love last years and now you're 'all' ready to jump in and destroy this fun skill.

Yeah I can take Ice spikes or whatever. Pffffft...

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

09 Mar 2009 at 22:26 - 163

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

@ Arkantos: Well the point was Ray of Judgment would become a playable elite. They succeeded in that. If they add scatter, the skill will end up being mediocre again, not worth to take it as there are way better alternatives.

What can I say, I really like the skill as it is. It won't make me a better player, that's true. But it's a hell of a lot of fun and that's why I play this game. Smiting didn't get much love last years and now you're all ready to jump in and destroy this fun skill.

Yeah I can take Ice spikes or whatever. Pffffft...

Yes, they made it a viable elite. But the fact still remains that the skill is bugged, and all bugs should be fixed. Fix it, and then talk about making it viable. Don't try and say it shouldn't be fixed because it's viable.

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

09 Mar 2009 at 22:29 - 164

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Yes, they made it a viable elite. But the fact still remains that the skill is bugged, and all bugs should be fixed. Fix it, and then talk about making it viable. Don't try and say it shouldn't be fixed because it's viable.

I say I like this skill as it is, screw the 'rules'. But they'll prolly change it anyway, so I might better enjoy it while I still can.

I realise I'm not the only one playing this game.

Reverend Dr

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Super Fans Of Gaile [ban]

W/

09 Mar 2009 at 23:26 - 165

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

the skill is bugged, and all bugs should be fixed.

How many years was winter bugged? Why wasn't it fixed earlier, they determined that the bug wasn't detrimental to play. There have been plenty of bugged skills over the years, there are still plenty of bugs.

Why are you arguing about a bug in an update thread? Why are you only complaining about this bug? Perhaps this thread should be about what was actually included or addressed in the update and the bug complaints can go here

Zodiac Meteor

Imma Firin Mah Rojway!

Join Date: Aug 2008

At the Mac Store laughing at people that walk out with anything.

E/Mo

10 Mar 2009 at 00:03 - 166

Wow! Look at I found!

Why Arenanet is doing it

I typed /ecnad (/dance backwards) unfortunately I can't use it but that's what Arenanet is doing.

Divinity Sword

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2007

Washington

Dragons of the Rose

R/

10 Mar 2009 at 00:18 - 167

Enemies don't scatter in JQ anyway do they? So fixing it as a bug doesn't really solve much except in AB and PvE (smite monks vs. ele?)

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

10 Mar 2009 at 00:21 - 168

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

How many years was winter bugged? Why wasn't it fixed earlier, they determined that the bug wasn't detrimental to play. There have been plenty of bugged skills over the years, there are still plenty of bugs.

Why are you arguing about a bug in an update thread? Why are you only complaining about this bug? Perhaps this thread should be about what was actually included or addressed in the update and the bug complaints can go here

Because ANet are extremely slow at fixing bugs.

I'm arguing about a bugged skill because monthly updates deal with bugs, and skill balances. ANet most likely already know about this bug. You don't need to tell me where to acknowledge a bug when I'm discussing it in the appropriate thread.

fenix

Major-General Awesome

Join Date: Aug 2005

Aussie Trolling Crew HQ - Event Organiser and IRC Tiger

Ex Talionis [Law], Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] ????????????????&#

W/

10 Mar 2009 at 00:31 - 169

I'm with Arkantos. Every other DoTAoE spell causes scatter, which was something ANet specifically put into the game for every possible option (Mark of Pain etc as well). The fact that RoJ does NOT cause scatter doesn't mean that it's a feature, it means that it is bugged.

ANet should fix it already, it's broken, and not only that it CLEARLY does the opposite to what they intended for all DoTAoE spells, so they should fix the bug that causes it. It doesn't matter if it's 'viable' now, it's also bugged. Badly.

MisterB

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2005

Planet Earth, Sol system, Milky Way galaxy

[ban]

W/

10 Mar 2009 at 00:33 - 170

The lack of a bug fix to AI behavior under the effects of [[Ray of Judgment] is what makes discussion of it logical in this thread. Since major updates occur once a month, and this was one of those monthly updates, then the lack of a fix to this bug is noteworthy.

Kumu Honua

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2008

10 Mar 2009 at 00:54 - 171

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

Wow! Look at I found!

Why Arenanet is doing it

I typed /ecnad (/dance backwards) unfortunately I can't use it but that's what Arenanet is doing.

So we are just waiting for the recharge eh?

Moloch Vein

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Reactive Hexing Sucks

[Thay]

N/

10 Mar 2009 at 01:19 - 172

Hopeless nerf to WoD, good old sledgehammer approach.

a.

Chthon

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Apr 2007

10 Mar 2009 at 02:28 - 173

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

ROJ should be made into an exception. In fact a lot of other AoE spells need to be made the same way just because they are so ridiculously underpowered. Ex. Chaos Storm, Symbol of Wrath, Fire Storm

No. The AI -- monster and hero/hench alike -- needs to at least approximate human behavior. Any sensible human moves out of DoTAoE on the first pulse, or before if there's a noticeable enough windup animation (ie meteor shower). Monsters should not just stand there while you kill them. Heroes/Hench should not just stand there while monsters kill them. They both need to move out of AoEDoT 100% of the time. (Though, I might be willing to accept an argument that monsters should be somewhat dumber than heroes/hench, and thus should move out somewhat later.)

Now, I'll agree that there's AoEDoT spells in need of serious buffs. But breaking the AI is not a legitimate way to buff things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Yes, they made it a viable elite. But the fact still remains that the skill is bugged, and all bugs should be fixed. Fix it, and then talk about making it viable. Don't try and say it shouldn't be fixed because it's viable.

Precisely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

The lack of a bug fix to AI behavior under the effects of [[Ray of Judgment] is what makes discussion of it logical in this thread. Since major updates occur once a month, and this was one of those monthly updates, then the lack of a fix to this bug is noteworthy.

Double precisely.

UnChosen

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

10 Mar 2009 at 02:54 - 174

Ever since the scattering was implemented there had been a problem with DoTAoE being underpowered. Remember the huge 100+ page post years ago? Well, it still applies, more and more people realizes that most of those DoTAoE spells are useless in PvE, especially with the implementation of HM and the super armor/HP. Hence the popularity of stuff like sabway/discordway/cryway.

Nerfing for PvP its fine because those shrine peoples have ridiculously low HP. But for PvE they better fix the fundamental problems before they even touch RoJ/CoP/etc.

Kumu Honua

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2008

10 Mar 2009 at 19:42 - 175

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

Nerfing for PvP its fine because those shrine peoples have ridiculously low HP. But for PvE they better fix the fundamental problems before they even touch RoJ/CoP/etc.

Not scattering *IS* a fundamental problem with RoJ. It is the only skill of it's type that does not cause scatter.

Fix the bug. Evaluate "power" is a whole other ball of wax. One with far more consequences than just fixing the AI of critters.

Heck if you think about it. The fix isn't even a change to the spell itself. The spell still functions as it should. It's the targets that change the dynamic.

UnChosen

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

10 Mar 2009 at 20:18 - 176

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kumu Honua

Not scattering *IS* a fundamental problem with RoJ. It is the only skill of it's type that does not cause scatter.

Fix the bug. Evaluate "power" is a whole other ball of wax. One with far more consequences than just fixing the AI of critters.

Heck if you think about it. The fix isn't even a change to the spell itself. The spell still functions as it should. It's the targets that change the dynamic.

Which is why they should address both at the same time, implementing scatter and increase the power of DoTAoE many folds to compensate, or add some extra function like auto cripple. I don't want another Smiter's Boon scenario where a (finally decent) skill is bombed to uselessness and then ignored in the hope that people will forget about it.

Kumu Honua

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2008

10 Mar 2009 at 22:27 - 177

Many folds?

Exactly how much damage do you believe an AE spell ought to produce? Even with two pulses of RoJ it deals 90 damage + burning per target in the radius. I believe it's already damn near as powerful as it should be.

The reason it's ridiculously stupidly overpowered right now is that the AI is so stupid it sits in the giant beam of light for the full duration.

100ish damage per target for a single skill is a damn sight better than most elite skills bar some elementalist skills and that monk can heal/protect pretty well after that. Sounds an awful lot like having cake and eating it too.

snaek

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

N/

10 Mar 2009 at 23:09 - 178

personally i think aoe spells are already quite powerful. you should not balance based on the damage after half-way through its duration, it must be based on the full possible damage done. now your thinking, 'but the full duration hardly ever take affect' but the answer to this is not to turn the dot into spike-damage, it is to create ways to make it more plausible for the full damage to occur.

the first solution i can think of would be to increase the abilities to snare/kd. but if you look at today's meta, wouldn't you say that snares/kd's r already borderline excessive?

the next solution i can think of is to increase the radius of effect of the dotaoe spells. this will not take into effect for all aoe damage, just strictly dotaoe nukes. the damage for certain already-powerful aoe spells might be toned down to keep things in check, but isnt that the point? for damage-over-time? not instant spike damage? as well, isn't that the point of aoe? to hit multiple targets? if you only catch 1 target, the aoe spell is -supposed- to be weak.

Moloch Vein

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Reactive Hexing Sucks

[Thay]

N/

10 Mar 2009 at 23:32 - 179

Has anyone ever stopped to consider that enemies fleeing might be a good thing?

Never mind...

MisterB

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2005

Planet Earth, Sol system, Milky Way galaxy

[ban]

W/

10 Mar 2009 at 23:38 - 180

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

Has anyone ever stopped to consider that enemies fleeing might be a good thing?

Never mind...

Critical hit, critical hit, critical hit ... As long as you can keep up, it's fun to slash away with melee. Then there's the defensive use of offensive spells.

Sephiroth Istari

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2006

12 Mar 2009 at 01:31 - 181

Nice work with the Aura of Restoration. It'll find a way into some of my skillsets.

Reverend Dr

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Super Fans Of Gaile [ban]

W/

12 Mar 2009 at 02:23 - 182

Aura of restoration has already found itself a nice complement with zealots fire. Bloody E/mo smiters are back.

The other problem is that the skill really seems worthless in any other capacity. It is certainly not enough to be the only energy management and must be supplemented. It isn't enough to replace an attunement or GoLE and taking it in addition is blowing 3 slots just for energy maintenence.