I am really fed up with people laughing or calling me a noob or the likes of it just because of my hobby of creating builds. Everywhere I look people use the same elite skills and the same general builds, and honestly: I'm fine with it. People can play what they want.
But what I'm not fine with is when people start badmouthing you for using a different build than everyone else. + the typical person who says "certain skills are bad and are only used by people with no brains or who just dunno how to play the game" (Examples: Mending, Charge, Mark of Protection, Toxic Chill and so on). I mean seriously the way you make good builds is by experimenting. If no one experimented we wouldn't have any of these mainstream builds now would we?
For instance: I joined a group in Arborstone just for laughs where I used a build combining "Watch Yourself", "I Am Unstoppable" (at max Norn) and the very little used elite skill Soldier's Stance. Because I had that skill I got called a noob, an idiot and one guy even called me a cocksucker. So I had to leave and do it by myself.
Another: During the Eldritch Ettin Z-quest I had Mending (Yes I did, big whoop wanna fight about it?), combined with Feel no Pain (and a bit of alcohol <3). Again people laughed at me and kicked me out even though I actually had +345 hp, - 2 damage reduction (since I had an enchanted shield) and constant 6 hp regeneration not to mention the other selfprotective skills I had. Again I had to do it myself (And succeded in less than 45 minutes even though it was on HM with only 15% dp on one of my heroes)
Ok yes some builds may be more effective generally than others I can easily see that. I mean Permasin is incredibly powerful. But I don't think it's fun to run around with the same freaking build all the time. Am I not allowed to experiment with the skills at my disposal without being freaking laughed at?
And btw don't give me that "It's just for fun" or "it's just to give advice". It's not funny to be laughed at for anyone, and it's really a bad way to give advice by insulting people!
Build discrimination.
Sword Hammer Axe
Zaris
Thats why there are heros!
The Scorpion Knight
Just don't worry about it, if the build does what it's meant to do then it's good. Yeah it might not be as good as another build, but you never know unless you try. Just start saying stuff back to the people that say stuff like that.
Airstu
Ping a cookie cutter build, run what you want.
Keira Nightgale
When you play with people you don't know the least you could do is use a decent build and not use them as your guinea pigs.
![Ec]-[oMaN](/static/static/../Img/avatar8384_2.gif){kind=avatar}
englitdaudelin
Guildies who can trust you are better than PuGs. They probably won't call you names. Unfortunately, the unintended consequence of the Z-coin missions is people adopting farming-like behaviors and builds to do them over and over. The Z-missions and Z-bounties are moving many people who want to GET THEM DONE, not experiment with the hows and whys of doing that.
Sorry you had a hard time. Take Dunkoro, Master of Whispers, and Zhed, and call it a day.
Sorry you had a hard time. Take Dunkoro, Master of Whispers, and Zhed, and call it a day.
Keira Nightgale
Short
The reason you get kicked is most likely because they want to run through the mission as quickly and efficiently as possible, Feel No Pain and Mending are not exactly renowned for their brilliance. If you want to experiment, do it in FA in PvP, where no one can see your build! Or in PvE, as many have said, just use heroes.
Esprit
You post on a popular game forum telling us your woes and then get pissy when people make fun of you. What did you expect when you made this thread?
If you are in a group of people, it does not hurt to be a little flexible if you the team wants to have a balanced build.
If you are in a group of people, it does not hurt to be a little flexible if you the team wants to have a balanced build.
azlnick
The reason people discriminate your builds is because all of the completely perfect builds for the area, mission, quest, etc. has already been figured out by the community, any other skill is most likely a LESS EFFECTIVE VARIANT. When you start to change 2 or more skills DRASTICALLY like mending and Feel No Pain, people think YOU'RE CRAZY for making your life HARDER THAN IT NEEDS TO BE. In RPGs it's all about EFFICIENCY and getting as much game time in a short amount of time. That's why your builds get discriminated because they are not as efficient. Your builds are different, less efficient, less reliable, and most of all AGAINST THE MAJORITY OF THE COMMUNITY therefore people will discriminate your builds.
Shuuda
So people get annoyed when you run a build that isn't reliable... such vile curs.
Expherious
I ran a D/W Symbolic Striker in RA, And I get like 150-200 damage easy, thats without an elite mind you
Shuuda
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Expherious
I ran a D/W Symbolic Striker in RA, And I get like 150-200 damage easy, thats without an elite mind you
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Kook~NBK~
This is nothing new, as it's been going on for years. Remember the old days in PvE when it was assumed that a Mesmer couldn't possibly have a decent skill bar simply because they were a MESMER
?
?
squiros
perhaps you should think of it another way. imagine if you will, if we were in the same platoon. if you put your m16 together in a way that fired rubber bands instead of bullets, in the right situation, i'm sure it would be hilarious. i would also admire your ingenuity. but i wouldn't want you in my platoon.
Sword Hammer Axe
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Esprit
You post on a popular game forum telling us your woes and then get pissy when people make fun of you. What did you expect when you made this thread?
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Even so if people insult me I insult them back since, well, Insults are insults no matter how you take them :P
aoeclald
While testing builds is generally not entirely frowned upon, the skill bars you are coming up with are appearing as "joke builds" to the PUGs you are joining. As a warrior, any time someone sees Mending on the bar, it's an instant WAMMO alarm and people don't want you. Also, based on your post, I am pretty sure you are not a newb, noob, or anywhere near unintelligent, you just want to have fun playing bars that are not mainstream and progress at the same time.
With that, it is okay to test bars, but make sure you are using skills which are not outdated for general PvE use, such as Mending. Restrict your test bars to trying out different elites, but not to the point where it's a joke "Oh, I bet I can beat HM with my echo frenzy build lololol" is the message you are giving off to people in your PUGs.
Based on your Arborstone bar, perhaps they were looking for more damage-oriented builds than tanking. Warriors are great for PvE and PvP, but a lot of their focus should be on damage unless otherwise specified, such as in The Deep where they are to hold many of the foes or in farming situations. Keep testing bars, but don't get discouraged. If they kick you for having a test bar, have a real bar to back you up so you can still go and finish and save the test bar for later. When a team is purely BYOB and doesn't matter what you have, then you bring your test bar.
If it gets you through, then good game -- if not, that is setting you up for another set of insults. Gaming people get bored with doing the same thing over and over again unless it is self-rewarding, such as farming. Redoing missions or runs are not the same however, so they expect success.
With that, it is okay to test bars, but make sure you are using skills which are not outdated for general PvE use, such as Mending. Restrict your test bars to trying out different elites, but not to the point where it's a joke "Oh, I bet I can beat HM with my echo frenzy build lololol" is the message you are giving off to people in your PUGs.
Based on your Arborstone bar, perhaps they were looking for more damage-oriented builds than tanking. Warriors are great for PvE and PvP, but a lot of their focus should be on damage unless otherwise specified, such as in The Deep where they are to hold many of the foes or in farming situations. Keep testing bars, but don't get discouraged. If they kick you for having a test bar, have a real bar to back you up so you can still go and finish and save the test bar for later. When a team is purely BYOB and doesn't matter what you have, then you bring your test bar.
If it gets you through, then good game -- if not, that is setting you up for another set of insults. Gaming people get bored with doing the same thing over and over again unless it is self-rewarding, such as farming. Redoing missions or runs are not the same however, so they expect success.
Helix Dreadlock
I had a similar problem, and people are afraid of change, I'm afraid. Imo, it's easier to ping what they want to see, and use what you perfer, just don't ping, "I'm using ____ on Mountain Troll!"
Because then they'd obviously know lol
Because then they'd obviously know lol
Zinger314
All builds are created equal. Some builds are more equal than others.
i.e. do what you want when you don't do it at the expense of your groupmates.
i.e. do what you want when you don't do it at the expense of your groupmates.
kupp
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Airstu
Ping a cookie cutter build, run what you want.
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Einherj3r
Buildism is real!
Don't ignore what is happening around you!
Fight the ignorance!
Against buildism, for human rights!
Don't ignore what is happening around you!
Fight the ignorance!
Against buildism, for human rights!
What Now
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kook~NBK~
This is nothing new, as it's been going on for years. Remember the old days in PvE when it was assumed that a Mesmer couldn't possibly have a decent skill bar simply because they were a MESMER
? |
Gun Pierson
Since when is a wammo with mending an experiment? It's a newbie mistake.
Here's the guru guide for playing a warrior in pve:http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10326347
When you understand the basics of the warrior in this game, you can start to experiment with 'exotic' combinations. Someone who knows the warrior class would never experiment with mending or monk as secondary in a normal team setup.
Here's the guru guide for playing a warrior in pve:http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10326347
When you understand the basics of the warrior in this game, you can start to experiment with 'exotic' combinations. Someone who knows the warrior class would never experiment with mending or monk as secondary in a normal team setup.
Daisuko
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Expherious
I ran a D/W Symbolic Striker in RA, And I get like 150-200 damage easy, thats without an elite mind you
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byteme!
@OP - Your underlying problem is you are testing builds good or bad at the expense of your team. They have every right to criticize you if you're gonna drag them down with you. It's all about efficiency. I would not want to spend 45 minutes to carry a bad player/skill bar through when I can achieve the same goal in half the time with a proper group. Now you multiply this scenario X amount of times and the total amount of time saved adds up. Time is money and you're not helping much.
Get it?
If you want to "test" things do it in your own time. On your own team or go do some RA and FA but don't join a team expecting them to carry you through while you figure out whether your build is good or not.
Your team is only as strong as it's weakest link. If you're the weak link I suggest you suck in your ego/pride/whatever and do something about it.
There is a difference between elitism and people just wanting to succeed. In your case it wasn't elitism (not even remotely close), you just had a very very bad skill bar and I would've just kicked you had you decided to pick an argument with me (not much to argue about in the first place since it's not an argument you can win).
Get it?
If you want to "test" things do it in your own time. On your own team or go do some RA and FA but don't join a team expecting them to carry you through while you figure out whether your build is good or not.
Your team is only as strong as it's weakest link. If you're the weak link I suggest you suck in your ego/pride/whatever and do something about it.
There is a difference between elitism and people just wanting to succeed. In your case it wasn't elitism (not even remotely close), you just had a very very bad skill bar and I would've just kicked you had you decided to pick an argument with me (not much to argue about in the first place since it's not an argument you can win).
Eddie Frenzy Spam
This thread is made of fail.
There's a difference between experimenting with builds that have potential, and playing builds that will NEVER be good.
In PvE it doesn't matter so much but don't complain about people calling you bad for running bad builds, they want to actually finish the mission in a reasonable time. If you want to run around playing bad bars then you're free to do so, but really don't expect people who are actually serious about doing the mission to take you.
There's a difference between experimenting with builds that have potential, and playing builds that will NEVER be good.
In PvE it doesn't matter so much but don't complain about people calling you bad for running bad builds, they want to actually finish the mission in a reasonable time. If you want to run around playing bad bars then you're free to do so, but really don't expect people who are actually serious about doing the mission to take you.
Khyr Lord of Kaoz
LOL at the people who think cookie cutter builds are necessarily MOST effective. Wrong. I have builds of my own (original builds), that are as good as most cookie cutter builds, or better.
You know the funny bit. Someone thought up a cookie cutter build, just as I thought up mine. Some guy says, wow, this works great, and thinks it's the best/most efficient way. It gets taken up by the community, because people are generally lazy. It doesn't always, or even usually make it the most effective build. It makes it the build everyone uses.
If someone insists on me using a specific build, I tell them no, kick me now, or shut up. Because in the end, I'm not going to be dictated to by a guy who thinks he knows more than I do. He may and he may not. I'm guessing the latter.
I've been very successful creating my own builds and don't use cookie cutter builds out of pride. I pride myself on being my own man. In fact, this game, for me, is ABOUT different kinds of builds.
So for those of you who think I should kowtow to popular opinion (which as far as I'm concerned is not always the best way to do things), I think you should all go play WoW. After all, more people play it, so it must be better than GW, right?
/shakes head in exasperation
You know the funny bit. Someone thought up a cookie cutter build, just as I thought up mine. Some guy says, wow, this works great, and thinks it's the best/most efficient way. It gets taken up by the community, because people are generally lazy. It doesn't always, or even usually make it the most effective build. It makes it the build everyone uses.
If someone insists on me using a specific build, I tell them no, kick me now, or shut up. Because in the end, I'm not going to be dictated to by a guy who thinks he knows more than I do. He may and he may not. I'm guessing the latter.
I've been very successful creating my own builds and don't use cookie cutter builds out of pride. I pride myself on being my own man. In fact, this game, for me, is ABOUT different kinds of builds.
So for those of you who think I should kowtow to popular opinion (which as far as I'm concerned is not always the best way to do things), I think you should all go play WoW. After all, more people play it, so it must be better than GW, right?
/shakes head in exasperation
belladonna shylock
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sword Hammer Axe
Another: During the Eldritch Ettin Z-quest I had Mending (Yes I did, big whoop wanna fight about it?), combined with Feel no Pain (and a bit of alcohol <3). Again people laughed at me and kicked me out even though I actually had +345 hp, - 2 damage reduction (since I had an enchanted shield) and constant 6 hp regeneration not to mention the other selfprotective skills I had. Again I had to do it myself (And succeded in less than 45 minutes even though it was on HM with only 15% dp on one of my heroes) |
fenix
Cookie cutter builds aren't necessarily the most effective or efficient, but they ARE when you look at effort vs efficiency/effectiveness.
The reason they become 'meta' in PvE is because they easy to play, and win better than most builds. The builds that are better, require more skill to play, so people don't worry about running it in pugs.
The reason they become 'meta' in PvE is because they easy to play, and win better than most builds. The builds that are better, require more skill to play, so people don't worry about running it in pugs.
![]HM[ Sabre Wolf](/static/static/../Img/avatar102835_2.gif){kind=avatar}
]HM[ Sabre Wolf
Mate... what you are doing is a good thing... dont let others jump on you and stuff... this is how I got my start in guild wars, looking at skills and looking at complementing them with a different profession set of skills then the first... like Pious Haste and Weapon Spells for example... but I digress...
Dont let some lame and probably uncreative people get you down because that follow the herd... do your own thing, and be proud of it. Look me up if you want to chit-chat about builds.
Dont let some lame and probably uncreative people get you down because that follow the herd... do your own thing, and be proud of it. Look me up if you want to chit-chat about builds.
byteme!
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Originally Posted by Khyr Lord of Kaoz
LOL at the people who think cookie cutter builds are necessarily MOST effective.
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Do you use mending too?! You must think you're different and uber pro now don't you? I heard +3 regen (6hp per sec) is overpowered. I also heard +3 regen isn't enough to negate any damage a monster would do in HM while "WANDING". Yes that's right. Mending is so pathetic it gets out damaged by an enemies wand.
Mending is HAWT!
PS. Why do people think it's in their right to drag their team mates down just so they can play the way they want? Selfish SOB's.
Khyr Lord of Kaoz
Quote:
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Originally Posted by fenix
Cookie cutter builds aren't necessarily the most effective or efficient, but they ARE when you look at effort vs efficiency/effectiveness.
The reason they become 'meta' in PvE is because they easy to play, and win better than most builds. The builds that are better, require more skill to play, so people don't worry about running it in pugs. |
If all people care about is getting through something fast, I wouldn't want to play with them anyway. And if that's what they care about, let them post for a speed clear group. Some of us like to take the time out to stop and smell the charr.
Whatever they meta with, if they have specific needs, let them ask for those needs. But insulting someone who thinks on his own, and has an original idea is NOT cause for insult.
I think using other people's builds because you're either too lazy or stupid to make your own is far reason to insult.
The truth is, it's the idiots like that do insult and want only fast and furious that have killed pugs for the rest of us.
fenix
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Khyr Lord of Kaoz
Life is a journey, not a destination.
If all people care about is getting through something fast, I wouldn't want to play with them anyway. And if that's what they care about, let them post for a speed clear group. Some of us like to take the time out to stop and smell the charr. Whatever they meta with, if they have specific needs, let them ask for those needs. But insulting someone who thinks on his own, and has an original idea is NOT cause for insult. I think using other people's builds because you're either too lazy or stupid to make your own is far reason to insult. The truth is, it's the idiots like that do insult and want only fast and furious that have killed pugs for the rest of us. |
ANet have dropped the ball with this, they were the ones who should have been making sure builds cannot do things like that.
byteme!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Khyr Lord of Kaoz
Life is a journey, not a destination.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Khyr Lord of Kaoz
The truth is, it's the idiots like that do insult and want only fast and furious that have killed pugs for the rest of us.
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While you're busy blaming them for ruining your experience they are saying the same exact thing about you. In other words, go find yourself some like minded individuals who share your enthusiasm for experimentation and leave the people who actually want to perform efficiently alone. You have no place in their group because you won't fit in well. You've made this extremely obvious.
Zinger314
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Khyr Lord of Kaoz
If all people care about is getting through something fast, I wouldn't want to play with them anyway. And if that's what they care about, let them post for a speed clear group. Some of us like to take the time out to stop and smell the charr.
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byteme!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zinger314
Tell that to your group, and you'll be lucky if they don't instantly kick you.
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Khyr Lord of Kaoz
Quote:
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Originally Posted by byteme!
This isn't life. The game is 4 years old. A lot of people already took the journey. We've arrived at our destination and now we want to do it again faster/smarter/more efficient. It's all about constant improvement in all walks of life. If you're not constantly trying to better yourself you might as well die now. Why wait til old age.
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A GAMER would want to do it better or faster on his own merit, rather than just playing the same thing over and over with the same build over and over.
I'm all for progress. Somehow, I think progress isn't created by people who accept the status quo. Progress is made by people who make the new discoveries, which involves NOT USING cookie cutter builds.
You can defend, if you like, the use of efficient builds to do things faster, but don't make the mistake in thinking there is any progress in it. Doing it faster, using the builds everyone else is using is a form of STAGNATION.
As far as this not being life, that's true. However, I've often found most online societies are microcosms of life. And in those microcosms, it is not very often that the know-it-alls are the smartest or best segment of the population. I won't bring out psychological testing to prove what I'm saying, because this isn't the place for it, but if you're interested, I can give you links to the studies off list.
Basically those that talk the loudest and insist the most, are often not the most qualified. Those who use builds created by others and insist I do the same aren't interested in progress. They're interested in getting something for the least amount of work possible. Nothing wrong with that, but don't make it a purist thing. People do it in real life too and it's not better or righter there.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by byteme!
Aside from the insults, people want to do things faster, better. It's natural progression. We always want to get better. Besides your statement is a double edged sword. The fast and furious killed pugs for you and you killed pugs for them by bringing sub par builds and dragging them down with you. It works both ways. While you're busy blaming them for ruining your experience they are saying the same exact thing about you. In other words, go find yourself some like minded individuals who share your enthusiasm for experimentation and leave the people who actually want to perform efficiently alone. You have no place in their group because you won't fit in well. You've made this extremely obvious. |
I have NO PROBLEM with someone saying, sorry mate, I'd like to do this fast, and I'm looking for someone with this build. That isn't my issue.
But anyone using someone else's build, and then insisting I do the same, an then insulting me for not doing it, most likely isn't as mature, experienced or as intelligent as they think they are.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zinger314
Tell that to your group, and you'll be lucky if they don't instantly kick you.
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See, I have no problem being up front about what I play the game for. And I will tell a group leader, look if all you care about is doing this fast, don't bother inviting me. And I don't care if that group leader doesn't want me either.
Oddly enough, I don't seem to slow anyone down anyway. I just refuse to use someone else's build and then brag about how great I am.
Misa
god.... oh i meant anet made heroes for a reason
Lux Aeterna
Quote:
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Originally Posted by byteme!
+3 regen isn't enough to negate any damage a monster would do in HM while "WANDING". Yes that's right. Mending is so pathetic it gets out damaged by an enemies wand.
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You know what? My original, non-cookie cutter builds have all steadily improved, and after a certain point, the point when I got good at the game, I started finding all of my builds on wiki - even my terrible Quivering Blade test build is on the gvg section.
There's a reason for the meta. Don't be a dick and try to run crap just because it's different.