Why I think PvE is broken.(rant)

What about "farming the campaigns"? I.e., playing them repeatedly. It's not worse than doing dozens of 15mins UWSC or any other dungeon-farming, right? Unless you're only after money, rarity or virtual assets!

But playing a game for virtual currency? While everyone can understand the immediate (little) pleasure that it can bring and the potential to get desired expensive items (whatever e-peen you have), in the long run (that's how I see the OP point) it's wrong.

The OP is right in that this obsession has completely corrupted the community and Anet has been complacent. When you read comments about SF by devs/designer that it allows "fun farms", I'm concerned that their focus is not right. And it does sound like an attempt to retain a certain number of people in game solely for not having to admit that there are very little people still playing the game.

But this brings an interesting point for the OP: once you make PvE "balanced" (without digressing into the discussion of what this is and how it's achieved), then who will still be playing the game? This is a real question I'm asking, because I've got absolutely no idea what would happen. And I'm wondering if Anet is following this path because they, contrarily to us, have the data on who's doing what in GW1.

People complain that permsin is overpowered and it needs a nerf. Anet will nerf it. People will complain that the next build is overpowered and needs a nerf. Anet will nerf it and so on until nothing works and everything is overpriced and only the people who spent years using gimmick builds will benefit in the game.

Removing permasin build will not renew pugging because pugging always sucked as stated by the general pugging population thousands of times. They say pugs suck, yet they want to pug. They pug yet they say they suck, therefore they suck at the game and demand a way to accomplish things better. Please power up these skills so we can use them better, they are underpowered.

Anet updates skills and now rits are powerful, given time we will have solo rit farming builds that people will whine about and anet will nerf.

The market in gw is dead. DEAD. Your ecto's and ambraces will never be worth more than they are now. Your ultra rare mini's and item skins have reached their price cap. The game is on the final years before its only played by the few thousand dedicated fans who won't move on.

People complain about the low prices of items and how easy pve is. People complain about how hard it is to make money and how hard the game can be. People complain about not being able to get in a group and then complain that all groups suck. People say its way to easy to make money and we need more money sinks while others complain that they have never even had 100k before and how lucky they are to have 40k at once.

People complain about this character build being to weak and this build being overpowered, buff this and nerf that. People exclude builds from pugs and over play other builds and then complain about the builds people like and bitch about no one liking their "balanced, creative build.

Point is no changes will make people happy. The game is "dying" or "dead" depending on who you talk to and people want to kill it further by removing things thousands of players enjoy all because the whiners can't sell their crappy greens for 20k anymore and their stacks of ecto's are now wholesale instead of retail.

You want to take hours and hours in elite areas because YOU have nothing but time and YOU want the prestige of having that ultimate rare super ultra Urgoz item which has the same damn stats as my drago's. Or because it took you hours and hours and still does but you're pissed cause someone else can power through it in 15 minutes.

Anet should release a single godmode build for EVERY profession, this way everyone can enjoy their favorite character and play in groups with no problems and get as rich as they want. OR they can choose to play non godmode builds and have fun being creative. Or they can play a 7sig 1 attack build in HM because they like a challenge.

Point is, people will never be happy. One group wants chicken, the other group wants steak and the third group wants vegan crap. Stop all your complaining and play the game the way you want with the people you want. Stop demanding everyone else play the game by your rules. You are not special, you are the same as everyone else.

Stop ruining the game and driving away the playerbase by pestering the game provider until they make the changes needed to shut you annoying losers up. Most missions suck, most others are too long or too boring and the rewards are not appealing. Pve is about titles and pretty items and filling our storages with useless crap we enjoy. This is a solo grinding game now and its never gonna change. Accept it or move on. Nothing else you can do, No matter how hard and loudly you cry on forums.

I hope my post added to the conversation.

So what's PvE for after having beaten it?
A: Prestigeous Titles, Armor and Equipment.

What's better, faster or slower farm times for the above aforementioned goals in my post?
A: Faster

What're you all wishing for it to become: Faster or Slower?
A: Slower

So, what (in essence) drives players to wish a slower rate of income on all PvE farmers that grind smartly?
A: Hatred towards those greater than them (FoW/Chaos Glove-wearing 1337ists with copius amounts of platinum and riches)

And what do we call such players with this particular kind of hatred?
A: Haters

Does Farming certain areas easily and in good time become boring over time?
A: !@#$%^&*() Of course it does! Everything gets boring over time; so, being reduced to using inferior *aka: "less bad"* builds does not equal innovation or amending the stagnation of a meta we're all left with by our GW1 "One-Man" Live Team.

So, what's happening to GW1 at this very moment then?
A: Inferior/Unskilled/Hateful 12 year olds Qqing for moar nerfs from our GW1 One-Man Live Team = Driving Players off their servers at a FASTER rate = Killing GW1 Faster & Faster = GG

And the people who want chicken or/and steak are wrong!
I have spoken!

You know, I really don't get it.

People go for the easiest way out because it is the easiest way out. When Ursan was the quickest, fastest, easiest, most foolproof (heh) method, everyone wanted 6 Ursans/2 HB monks. When Ursan was hit with the nerfbat, people immediately switched to the new best method.

So, you know - HB/UA monks, permasins, whatever - yeah, you can complain all you want about how hard they should be hit with the nerfbat, but it won't make the people you PUG with any more intelligent players. Nerfing permasins won't make the bad 'sins you play with any better. They'll either move on to the new farming method, or they'll just sit there and stagnate because they can't do anything else.

You can say that a certain skill is overpowered and needs balancing. You can say that people have reduced their skillbars to one or two single standard bars. You can say that people are close-minded, are unwilling to take into account changes in different areas, and that people need to think about how their classes fit into the missions and quests they're trying to do. I agree with these.

But asserting that this will necessarily force people to learn how to play more intelligently, or work out new ways of PvEing for themselves... I'm sorry, I don't share your optimism. I think there will be a lot of sitting around whining, yes. But you should realise that people have already settled into the routine of going for the 'most foolproof method', especially in PUGs, and it's way too late to yank that kind of 'wiki bar or else' mentality away from the population.

Read every word and agree with it all, I really hate the exclusion. I hate having to roll a class I hate playing in order to make some money. What I really enjoy are missions, people aren't strict on them, They take w/e they get, and 90% of the same they work.

I don't like playing an assassin, or any melee class actually, to be honest. So having to roll a sin to make some money sucks for me xD. I don't care about money anyway, but I'ma have to play one to buy me "Buyable" titles.

FYI, I only use WoH No one will ever get me to change, unless I'm in a farming team, then I will, but in missions/vq's I will NEVER stop using WoH. EVER.

The day PvE isn't based around using a bunch of the same class and 1 monk(or even an entire team of monk, 'cause I love my other caster classes), is the day I wake up and realize it was just a dream xD











P.S. Am I the only one who thinks every single needs a complete revamping? Every skill, modified, like when the Ursan update came, but NEARLY every skill. It'd open an entire world of new builds and creativity. I'm sure we all need a change.

out of that text, i made this up to Shorten it:
You should not be able to do 20 minute speedClears of Elite areas.Nerf Shadow form!
Seriously...
most of the ppl who want SF nerfed Dont farm at all, are too lazy to make a sin, or simply got a too shitty internet to be able to Hit Shadow form Before it Runs out.

(i didnt read half of it, i read Perma once, then i looked through it, and the entire post seems to be based around Shadow form/Perma sins)

I gave examples of archetypical personalities. Attempting a complete breakdown of all the major categories of players is beyond the scope of this discussion.


Casual players have no different motivations than anyone else; the mix might be different, but it's not like there's a 'casual' goal or something. It just means it takes longer chronologically for a game to run its course.


I don't think it's reasonable or sane to approach it that way. It's not like you can declare your player base 'broken' and change them (well, you can, see Star Wars: Galaxies - but doing so is generally pretty stupid). It's instead a question of making sure your players are getting what they need, and making the game attractive enough to attract new ones.


What you see is that bad farmers want super-powered builds that make the game really, really easy so that they can grind out their loot.

There are two different angles from which this is bad. First, is that by making the game really easy, you eliminate the puzzle and challenge aspects of the game. In the current state the puzzle and challenge aspect is still in-tact for brand new players who haven't learned the best builds yet; but for experienced players, there is nothing even close to approaching a challenge. You just walk all over everything.

The other is that by making a few builds super-powered, you've eliminated a lot of space for creativity and variety. There is appeal is giving the player flexibility in how they approach the game and how they build their character, and late game pushing players in lots of different directions in different content. When there is one ultra-powerful build for each class, you lose out on a lot of the depth in the game.

Super powerful builds ultimately don't even help the loot focused community. After all, what those players really want is to distinguish themselves through their gear, and how do you distinguish yourself when everything is easy to get?


You're looking at it wrong. The good players don't care if the bad players get better or not. The good players want some way to distinguish themselves from the bad players in game. The good players want rewards that the bad players can't get, at least in large numbers. That makes them stand out. When you have broken builds, that is impossible, because there is no way to differentiate yourself anymore.

PvE grind balancing is one of those funny places where you can basically never listen to your players. They always want more power to grind out the loot faster and easier; but the game that you're selling them is the chasing of the carrot, not the carrot itself. These are the kinds of players and gameplay that get destroyed by hacks, bots, and cheats - if they could just give themselves all the best gear, the game would essentially be over. If you're designing for that demographic, you *want* grinding out the best gear to be hard; you *want* it to take a long time. Doing otherwise is just removing gameplay.

Tl;dr

When I first started reading, I thought it was going to ne a rant about how PvE'rs were bad at PvE. Then when I started reading, I saw thAt it was the same old song and dance about SF and xyz is over powered, and I was dissapointed .

Some people think farming is fun, it really gets stuck in peoples gullets when they are told what is fun and what isn't.

And as to the whole hate-on for speed clears and permas etc. all I have to say is why? Do you really think everyone will automatically get better at the game by neerfing SF? Do you hate assasins as much as I do, and would rather vomit than play one for an extensd period of time and are this shut off from a lot of the aforementioned phat l00tz?

If you don't like it, don't do it, 'nuff said.

Me thinks creativity and variety is dead in this game. PvE Skills are IMBA and enable even casual players to 1-2-3-4 the hardest shit in GW1. Am I right or wrong?

Me also thinks that PvP is headed towards the same trajectory due to stagnation in skill variety.

Overall, me thinks that the very nature of Free-to-Play MMORPGs are adynamic at best because their monetary incentive just isn't enthusing enough for the developers to [care] tbh.

I take it you dont really know the meaning of elite. so let me enlighten those with miniscule thought patterns, ELITE= A superior or choice part, esp. of a human society. That is from the great webster's mouth. So tell me somethiing how does 20 min speed clears sound to be skillful at all.
If that to you is logic then your logic is seriously flawed, LOL i think a retarded monkey could permasin.^ ^
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GW1 is history.

The only question is if GW2 will be "better", and to which kind of gamer it will appeal. As they are so secretive it is hard to tell.

They better kill fast-speed god-mode gimmicks in GW2 as soon as they appear.

Levaing them around for long periods of time in GW only servers to make players depend on those gimmicks.

PvE is designed so a moderately skilled party can kill all foes they face without deaths in the party, but when a single character can beat entire dungeons solo in 10..30% of the time it would take to a party, . heh, that's something to take care of.

PvE can't be actually 'balanced' because both sides are different, but excessive stuff must be removed, specially when it affects only one or two professions, leaving most of the rest out.

The whole concept of 'Elite' is retarded in Guild wars. When you see gold trimmed guilds selling their guilds or invitation for their guilds for gold or even guilds arranging matches between themselves to advance in 'tournies' or farm glad points, I think there is something very wrong with this game. Moreover, when you see a game which was about skill in the 'first age' turned into build wars where the main point is to abuse mechanics, I think that there is something very wrong not only with the game but with the devs also. Add to that the devs encourage grind and rewards players for spending huge amout of virtual money through AFK titles, it's not surprising that people looks for the easiest way to make money. Even though I can't be bothered to do it and hate it, I can actually understand why they do it. The Coop part of GW-PvE is almost dead in most outpost with the exception to some of the zaishen mission places. Like Ensign said, the only part of the poplation that is left are the farmers. And for those who liked to actually play the game and storyline, how long can you actually replay the game storyline and quests with the company of heroes? I would not mind if it were real players, but with heroes, once on every characters I have is more than enough for me ....

The problem with most of the OP's 1st post is that he is only pointing out things that he does not like. That's fine because they are indeed true and are detrimental to the game. But, changing them, ain't gonna make it any better. It's only gonna change it to something else. Remove SF and people will switch to Obby tank. Remove that too and they move to the next tank and spank strategy. Is that actually gonna make it better? It's merely gonna end up just being a band aid.

The problem is the level design, an area like DoA basically restricts the team build to very few options. The level design is way too unforgiving and the constant power creep basically forces you to abuse game mechanics to actually have a chance to complete the last areas. Take a balance team and try DoA, and you will find yourself dead within seconds. It's not even about skills anymore...It's more about how well you can abuse the AI flaws now...

Edit : ZZZ...Grammy errors...

You said it's a problem we're obsessed with farming... How exactly is that bad after we've played the game for 4 years and beaten everything?

Ah i understand. Your bored of the game, so you'll remedy this by entering the EXACT same area with the EXACT same build OVER and OVER and OVER again to farm cash for a game that you are clearly bored of?

Actually, it's because I haven't gotten an e-(pen0r)blade or Obsidian Edge.
Like-wise with shmups, you keep trying until you get things perfect or "The high score"
In this case, those two high-end items.

Yes, because that's how farming works. When you've done everything there's to do, and you want to get shiny stuff, this is what you can do to get it. Makes sense. You want to get it the fastest, so you do farm areas repeatedly until you get desired loot. This is because the only things worth farming are rare, and unless you are very lucky, you don't get what you are trying to get in just one run.

My avatar says it all,

And then what? What are you going to do once you have those items? You said the game is boring and that you have beaten it to the point where you just don't want to anymore. So you set a goal and are trying to reach it. That is great, everyone needs to set some goals. But what are you going to do after you reach that goal?

The game is boring so you won't play it over again. So you won't even get a use out of that weapon you got. So are you just gonna say, yes I got it time to un-install? Sounds pretty pointless to have gotten the thing in the first place if there is nothing you can use it for.

So honestly, I really am curious as to what you would plan to do with it once you got it. It has always been a serious question to me that I would love to have answered.

What I would do after I get the e-pen0r swords is bashing Still Number One on GWG for using such a retarded logic that makes video games themselves pointless to play

Everything comes to an end, and I must applaud ANET for making a game one can enjoy for thousands of hours rather than merely a few, unlike most console games.
Gz anet.

They kind of are. Video Games are a means of entertainment. They are not a way of life. Playing a video game will not enhance your real life in any way. It just allows you to take some time out of reality and enjoy yourself. If you aren't having fun playing the game anymore then stop playing it. If you can't put the game down once it becomes boring then you have an addiction problem.

If farming is fun for you then by all means farm. But what happens when it isn't fun anymore. A lot of people don't do it because it is fun or because they have a goal they are working towards. People do it because they simply do not know what else to do. They have played the game to death and have nothing else to do besides farm. These people need to quit the game. The game has served its purpose for them in their life and is now being an obstacle preventing them from moving forward in the real world because they feel they need to play the game. It is no longer a fun escape from reality, it is now a way of life. A game should never become that unless you can make a living off it (professional sports).

It is time for people to start picking up a new hobby. Either move on to a new game, or pick up something like golf or boxing. You are supposed to control the game, the game is not supposed to control you.

Wrath of God:
All enemies within earshot die.

So for you such a skill (a bit extreme there :P) would be a good addition to the game??
Things happening fast is good... Things happening way too fast is bad (imho)...

/endthread

No wait!

/endguru!

Yeup.

It matters less if you address it poorly (i.e. bad implementation) and more if you simply address it at all. Just look at the way the AI works since day 1, allowing the "Holy Trinity" to be stable team set-up that completely goes against the concepts of Guild Wars.

If something's going or against design they need to take care of it pronto. Otherwise we'll get GW1 - again, in all it's horrendously shallow glory.

Too long. Still think that h/h are the reason why PvE is broken lol. Online game where nobody is available to play with... so much fun! (And don't tell me to just get a guild, I've tried many times, it doesn't' work).

I just read the blog of a GW player. He learned how to team 600 some areas, to farm a torment shield - but the team did not work in the Domain of Anguish.

This is what happens when a game becomes about title and item farming with gimmicks. I do not want to blame the player, I blame the design.

HB is a skill that uses a skill slot just like every skill. Of the times I've noticed it stripped, I was already able to recast it (and it's casting time is fine).

I hope permas become a thing of the past because I enjoy playing...not standing there watching someone else play.

So you consider uncooperative people that screw up agro fun?
GW isn't an online game per say. It's a PC game and it is marketed as a Co-RPG that lets you play with "your friends or theirs"
And that's the whole beauty of gw and why I play. Because it plays similar to an mmo, but acts more like a simple rpg that can be played multiplayer.

Wrong. If you enjoy a game and it makes you happy, then when you log off you will be in a good mood. While you play the game you will be in a good mood. You can start your day on a positive note or end in on a good note. So video games can enhance your life. Just like enjoying a movie can. You leave the theater after watching that new, good movie. You are enjoying yourself and not thinking about the bills or family/relationship issues. The game/movie/hobby has served as a positive distraction which enchances your day. So it can enchance your real life through simple enjoyment.


This is true and a real problem with MMO games. People spend so much time on these games that it is harder to let them go. When you dedicate so much time to something, regardless of what it is, You don't just walk away from it. Dedication and addiction go hand in hand. The difference is dedication has positive results, addiction has negative results. But just because you play a game you find boring doesn't mean you're addicted. I'v played many games that bored me beyond measure yet I continued through them so I could finish them.

You find something else to do.

Or they are trying to work towards something else. Maybe they are trying to get that new "bling" to take into the elite areas. Maybe they just enjoy it. GW provides plenty to do and I'm pretty sure most people know they have options.


They have plenty to do besides farm. But farming is fun. We set goals for ourselves to keep us interested in a game we dedicated massive amounts of time to. We farm and grind and wait for new content.


If this is true, its up to them to decide, not you or anyone else.


I find this funny. How is a video game preventing someone from moving forward in their lives? You can't blame a video game because someone doesn't do their homework or neglects their spouse or slacks off at work. Thats a personal issue and has nothing to do with the game. Guild wars may be a focus in the persons life, but its not the cause of the problem. If it wasn't gw then it could be online poker or strip clubs or other less legal activities.


Even if you make a living off something it should not be a way of life. They used to say "Don't bring your work home with you". I agree with you though that people tend to take gaming far to seriously.


Again, its up to them to decide when its time for them to move on. But I agree that people should practice self control and moderate their gaming habits instead of over indulging. But people do what they want.

After just reading the title, I can say that I think PvE is mostly broken because there are what, FOUR PEOPLE that are full time on this game anymore?! Anet's response? "We're working on GW2 nubz." - (still haven't seen any fruits of this obscure labor)

Oh, and skills like Shadow Form, PvE only skills, Title-linked skills dont help.

But mostly, as referenced in my first statement, PvE is not necessarily broken so much as stale because there is NO NEW CONTENT.

PvE is always broken, because everytime one thing is nerfed, people find a way to expolit some other skill or method of farming.

Hence its a never ending cycle of people farming with a new gimmick.

now if they just made every skill half as effective...

I don't honestly care about SF, once i get my frog scepter I won't have a use for money anymore so I'm not going to talk about that.

As for HB, I still use WoH, SoD, RC and Divert Hexes in PvE, it just really depends on how I feel or what area i'm doing.

I think it's stupid to try and tell people to run different things, I always say - run what you're comfortable with - you will make mistakes and suck otherwise. Also to be brutally honest, I LIKE HB- sure it's run by terrible people to get somewhat decent at the game but I'd much rather have someone spamming seed of life and superpowered heals than someone using a prot/hybrid bar when they don't even know what shield of absorbtion or guardian does.

Sure, you want to show off what a good player you are and how people should be bowing at your feet - go pvp.

My opinion really...

What makes me uncomfortable with a lot of the players on this board is this:

Everytime a new build comes around and changes the meta, people scream "EXPLOIT EXPLOIT OMG!!! nerfnerfnerf".

It's NOT an exploit to freaking perma. It's NOT an exploit to use game mechanics to your advantage when the developers obviously want their game to take the direction it has. They dont care how much money everyone is making, they just want people to have fun and actually stay around and play enough to be intrigued with GW2.

The skills are what they are, the meta is what it is, live with it people. It is NOT an exploit to use the skills the game has provided us with to our advantage.

The real exploits are fixed with mini updates all the time, and thank godness for that. :-) We dont want another "get into Mallyx cave whenever you want"-episode, right?

I have always been against perma sins and I use the for farming DOA HM with 8 men. They have had a negative impact on the game and I think the only time they should have been buffed to their current state is just months prior to the release of GW2.
With regards to farming, that is boring if you are solo farming, there is no joy in that, when I do DOA we have a different goal, we like to set records and by doing this we get rich nice and fast. PvP is the best way to get to know the mechanics of the game (and this is coming from a hardcore PvE'er). PvP is the future of Guild Wars and those who fail to see this either feel that they lack the skills to enter PvP or has a crazy view on what the game is all about. I would be the first to sign anything that nerf's all solo farmers and for 8 man farming (DOA, FOW, UW for example), those area's should be made more challenging and still possible to be completed within 30 minutes but only by specialist teams and not any random bunch of nubz. Izzy wake up man...

Don't twist words. Heros may be fun and all since you customize them and they are there 24/7, but I have like 0 fun in PvE because of them. I played another online game that did the 8 skill thing and that one forced you to play with other people to do things... and it was way more fun than Guild Wars ever has been for me, despite having a crapload of beta problems (framerates of like 1 frame every 5 seconds in the endboss and taking up almost a gig of ram not even fullscreened due to be coded in flash, limited skills, etc). Real people are not always horrible players or DURR HURRRR WHUT DO WE DOOOOO?" I rarely encounter those type of people, and they seem to weed themselves out if I ever get them (they will leave because they'll think eveyboyd but them was the problem). PUGs have a bad rep, but can make the game way more fun. Plus I've met tons of people in that other game and if they'd iron out the lag I might go back lol. And say you can "play with your friends", but if everybody is pvxing their heros and taking henchmen, then is that statement true?

I may sound against heros 100% lol, but I do see how they are necessary and like using them myself, but they just clash with PUGs and I'm not sure what a solution would be.

I personaly dont mind having Permas in DoA but thast about it.

I mena that place is hell on earth in a bad way... i tryied doing it "balanced" with my guildies and heroes but that was a no goe for at least foundry... Than we went with a Perma sin guildie which just bunched them up and we all torched them to hell... i think DoA promotes the tanking and spanking attitude.... ( Than again we never looked in DoA at all and started recently.. did City and Veil witout permas and all)

In any case rid of Perma sins and DoA minght as well die out with them.... i would keep em just for DoA so people who just cant find a team to make the quests complete or have no clue how to do them adn dont want to join PuGs rare as they are there .

It doesn't matter. Those people who want to make a fortune off rare drops will complain. Those players who want to have the biggest epeen will complain. Those players who are jealous that a profession they don't like is way better than their favorite profession will complain.

Sin's sucked before perma build. Everyone said as much and it was rare to see a sin. Sin player's used to be where para players are now. Excluded from groups. Now everyone hates them because they are so useful.

Dervishes cry for a nerf on scythe builds on non dervish professions because dervishes suck with their own weapons compared to other classes. Soon rits will be the target of endless QQ and will get nerfed back into uselessness.

No one is ever happy with the way the game is and they know that if they complain enough, anet will problem fix the issue to shut them up. They can not have fun unless other people are playing the game how the jerks want.

PvE has absolutely NO effect on another player's ability to play, yet people constantly rage about Pve. They want people to either dedicate massive amounts of their lives to becoming good in the opinion of the no lifers, or they want players to have no fun at all and play a different game because the no lifers are jerks with ego problems.

Those no lifers need to go to pvp and rule all to show off their skill. Everyone screaming for nerfs don't know what PvE is about and saying " Multiplayer vs single player is different" is a weak argument as you can still play with people. That has never changed.

What they really want is this, They want people to have to play with others no matter how rude, abusive or unwelcome they are. They enjoy ruining others fun and being the "leader" of the game. They suck up to get what they want and then cry when they don't.

All these people ever do is bitch on the forums. Thats all I'v ever seen. They run down the average gamer, insult the dedicated gamer and nerf gamers better than themselves. Whats worse is Anet goes for it.

I say include a godmode for all the professions. Let people play what they want. Let people speedclear elite areas. Who cares? Who does it hurt? It makes the people who spent hundreds of hours trying to get that nice item, angry because now that item isn't worth as much because average joe sin over there is selling them by the dozen for half the cost.

They're also butthurt because average joe can do in minutes what it took them hours to do and they cry foul and scream "it isn't fair!"

Guildwars is 4 years old and people claim its dying or dead yet they still want to remove as much of the funfactor as they can for others. I don't care if someone can make more money than me or beat areas faster than me. Right on for them! I'm glad they're enjoying the game how they want.

But they will come back and say "It wasn't suppose to be like that in the first place!" Same can be said for grinding or farming or Soloing. You know what this says. Guildwars is not the game for those people who can not accept the changes it has gone through, yet they are unwilling to accept it and move on. Instead they dedicate their time to RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing it up for everyone else.

Nerfing a godly build will not fix anything at all. Not the price of items nor the frequency in which you see them sold nor the amount of people playing together and not even the crying complainers will shut up because they will find something else to cry about within a weeks time or sooner.

In short, nothing will make them happy, so forget about them and focus on those you can make happy who don't complain constantly. Like me. I don't complain about guildwars, I complain about the community, not the game which I accept for what it is and not demand they fix it to fit my vision of what it should be.

When will the cycle stop?

People come up with builds that spank the game.

Builds get nerfed.

People come up with more builds that spank the game.

Builds get nerfed.

This has been going on for years now.

I say bring back ursan to its former glory and put shadow form back to full power. Never really cared if someone else could run through the game in 1 week or not or farm ectos until they have to get another account to hold them all. If people enjoy doing that then who the F&#% are we to say otherwise. Are we some kind of f^%$ing busy bodies deciding how everyone should play the game. Play the game how you want to and stop concerning yourself with what the other guy is doing. Some people act like they are having something stolen from them if someone else uses a build that allows them to blow through the game or get piles of money/ectos. Make the game challenging for yourself and play it noone is forcing us to use an easy build.

I have already seen calls to nerf discordway and other hero builds too, next cycle of nerfs is on the way.

ANET Make it Stop and save yourself some time and money...just say no to nerfing!!!

It is your game play it how you want!

@ huntmaster...Hell yes godmode the whole damn thing.

Also F%#@ the economy, that is a load of crap also. It will adjust get over it.

Permasin is SeRious BusiNess.
Game is 4+ years Old.
Bring back Ursan and Elvis!