SF Argument

Targren

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

Primeval Warlords[wuw]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by kanuks View Post
Your points are ridiculous. Nice try at countering my arguments. Also regarding my poor grammar, english is not my primary language and I bet you that you can't write a secondary language as good as me.
If english is not your primary language, then you have a valid reason to be grammatically challenged. That does not mean you are not. And you also ignored the PERTINENT point that you ARE just a random guy on the internet who claims that the developers think things that Linsey herself has said the opposite of. Therefore, your attempt to appeal to authority failed via the fallacy of misplaced concreteness (Your opinion does not apply to reality).

Quote: Also, calling the casual players "Random morons"... I didn't. I called PUGs "Random Morons." As I said, "casual" players are not hanging out in elite areas.

Quote: You think you are good because you use SF? You think only the best players can use it? You think that because of that, SF should not be nerfed, since only the "top super elite players" are able to use SF correctly? You're so wrong. Even a newbie can run it. Except I never said any of those things. I see you've moved on to strawman arguments. I never claimed I was a "super elite player" or even "good." I think I'm doing fairly well, having completed 9/16 of the "accomplishment" titles on my main (which is a ranger and does not have access to SF). Well enough that the game is still fun for me, at least.

Quote:
Don't act like you are superior to other players because you abuse of a broken skill. I never claimed to be a superior player. I pointed out flawed logic. The two are entirely unrelated issues, that you seem to be taking personally.

Quote:
What exactly is the difference between a group of 8 players using 6 ursans and a group of 8 players using 7 SFers? SF still works? But who the hell said anything about Ursan? If anything, Ursan SUPPORTS my point that you claim I am wrong about (that nerfing SF will not make PUGs reappear at UW). DoA was an ursan-fest. Ursan was nerfed. DoA now sees less PUG action than a dead hooker has clients.

Quote:
Don't you think that the skill is abused at least a little? The nerf is inevitable and you look bitter about it. It will be so entertaining to come on these forums and see all the whiners complaining about having to play the game normally again. That'll be comdey gold. And I will laugh at all the "normal" players who continue to cry about not being able to PUG.

If you're trying to PUG an elite area, you're failing already. If an elite area doesn't require coordination, teamwork, and synergy, then it's not an elite area.

kanuks

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Targren View Post
If english is not your primary language, then you have a valid reason to be grammatically challenged. That does not mean you are not. And you also ignored the PERTINENT point that you ARE just a random guy on the internet who claims that the developers think things that Linsey herself has said the opposite of. Therefore, your attempt to appeal to authority failed via the fallacy of misplaced concreteness (Your opinion does not apply to reality).



I didn't. I called PUGs "Random Morons." As I said, "casual" players are not hanging out in elite areas.



Except I never said any of those things. I see you've moved on to strawman arguments. I never claimed I was a "super elite player" or even "good." I think I'm doing fairly well, having completed 9/16 of the "accomplishment" titles on my main (which is a ranger and does not have access to SF). Well enough that the game is still fun for me, at least.



I never claimed to be a superior player. I pointed out flawed logic. The two are entirely unrelated issues, that you seem to be taking personally.



SF still works? But who the hell said anything about Ursan? If anything, Ursan SUPPORTS my point that you claim I am wrong about (that nerfing SF will not make PUGs reappear at UW). DoA was an ursan-fest. Ursan was nerfed. DoA now sees less PUG action than a dead hooker has clients.



And I will laugh at all the "normal" players who continue to cry about not being able to PUG.

If you're trying to PUG an elite area, you're failing already. If an elite area doesn't require coordination, teamwork, and synergy, then it's not an elite area. Multiquote button doesn't seem to work for me so I'll reply with a number referring to your responses to the quotes you quoted :

1 : You act the same as me by implying that the devellopers don't care about an elite area being run in 20 mins. My assumption of them being worried about it is actually probably more accurate than yours. After all, they did nerf the skill twice and they did claim that they are still envisaging another nerf. PS if you are that worried about my grammar then I can write using my primary language and let you have fun with the google translator? Hmm that's what I thought. Usually, someone that starts personnal attacks on a forum board is someone running out of arguments. I can't blame you because the points that favors the SF nerf are a lot superior than the ones that doesn't.

2 : Most of the random pugs consists of casual players so yeah you referred to them as "Random morons". Nice try there buddy. Casual players can and will always be able to hang in these areas because guess what? There is no requirements to reach these outposts (Except for Factions' elite areas which can still be accessible via cheap scrolls). Your statement was elitist at it's best.

3 : Sorry but your attitude makes it look like you feel superior than the random morons known as casual players. According to you, they aren't supposed to hang in elite areas, heh.

4 : Thanks for proving my point. DOA was indeed an ursan fest and it got nerfed. What the hell is UW if not a SF fest? I really don't get how the Ursan's nerf can support your point as you try to claim but fail terribly.

5 : And I will laugh at you crying about your favourite skill being nerfed, that way we will both have a good laugh. Not to mention that pugging can not regress more than it already has. Nerfing SF wouldn't fix the problem entirely but it would at least help a little. Also the pugging problem isn't the only issue with SF. Overfarming an elite area depreciate the economy and will eventually ruin it.

6 : Ok so if a pug attempts an elite area then they fails miserably right? Yeah thanks for proving my points 2 and 3, Dr. Superior. Also, I don't see much "teamwork" in UWSC since the players all takes a different paths. Yeah I guess you guys are playing teamwork from 2x radar range away haha. Nice try. Also, where is the use of "Synergy" in UWSC exactly? 7 characters with practically the same build is quite the opposite of "synergy" if you ask me. Go look at the definition of synergy if you don't believe me.

Targren

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

Primeval Warlords[wuw]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by kanuks View Post
Multiquote button doesn't seem to work for me so I'll reply with a number referring to your responses to the quotes you quoted :

1 : You act the same as me by implying that the devellopers don't care about an elite area being run in 20 mins. My assumption of them being worried about it is actually probably more accurate than yours. After all, they did nerf the skill twice and they did claim that they are still envisaging another nerf.
Firstly, stop putting words in my mouth. It only makes you look dishonest. I never said they weren't concerned with speed-clears. I said that they were (correctly, IMHO and as I've advocated since the start of this fracas) looking at changing the AREA instead of the SKILL. Yes, they nerfed the skill twice, and oh yeah... buffed it twice, and left it maintainable intentionally.

Quote:
PS if you are that worried about my grammar then I can write using my primary language and let you have fun with the google translator? Hmm that's what I thought. Usually, someone that starts personnal attacks on a forum board is someone running out of arguments.
You're certainly fixated, aren't you? The point was that you were wrong, you have no business speaking for the developers, especially when you DIRECTLY contradict what they themselves have said.

Quote:
I can't blame you because the points that favors the SF nerf are a lot superior than the ones that doesn't.
That has yet to be demonstrated. Not one of them, to date, succeeds logically, substantiated by fact rather than preference.

Quote:
2 : Most of the random pugs consists of casual players so yeah you referred to them as "Random morons". Nice try there buddy. Casual players can and will always be able to hang in these areas because guess what? There is no requirements to reach these outposts (Except for Factions' elite areas which can still be accessible via cheap scrolls). Your statement was elitist at it's best. That makes no sense... First off, there ARE requirements for entering all but two elite areas (Tombs and Sorrow's Furnace, if they are even considered "Elite" anymore...), completely independent of "reaching the outpost." Secondly, just because they reach the outpost does not mean they have any intention of waiting around for two hours for a pug to form before spending 2-3 in the elite area, only to probably fail. So either you're full of it, or you're using a definition of "casual" that I was not previously aware of.


Quote: 3 : Sorry but your attitude makes it look like you feel superior than the random morons known as casual players. According to you, they aren't supposed to hang in elite areas, heh. You're the one who called casual players "random morons."

I called pugs "Random Morons." That is based entirely on experience, and it is an experience shared by many. Just look at the old 7-heroes thread.

Quote: 4 : Thanks for proving my point. DOA was indeed an ursan fest and it got nerfed. What the hell is UW if not a SF fest? I really don't get how the Ursan's nerf can support your point as you try to claim but fail terribly. I will explain it more simply (because you will doubtless use your "English is not my primary language" dodge to explain your illiteracy on this point, despite the fact that you were able to read everything else I wrote.)

GIVEN: DoA was an ursan fest.
GIVEN: While DoA was an ursan fest, it was crowded, and there was always a pug to be had (if you met requirements).
CHANGE: Ursan was nerfed.
RESULT: No more PUGs in DoA.


Quote:
5 : And I will laugh at you crying about your favourite skill being nerfed, that way we will both have a good laugh. Those bastards are going to nerf Broad Head Arrow?!

Quote:
Not to mention that pugging can not regress more than it already has. Nerfing SF wouldn't fix the problem entirely but it would at least help a little. No. It won't. See DoA.

Quote:
Also the pugging problem isn't the only issue with SF.
Overfarming an elite area depreciate the economy and will eventually ruin it. Another failed argument. There is no such thing as an "economy" when supply is infinite. There is no "Central Bank of Tyria" that gives the coins to monsters to drop.

Quote:
6 : Ok so if a pug attempts an elite area then they fails miserably right? Usually, yes.

Quote:
Also, I don't see much "teamwork" in UWSC since the players all takes a different paths. Then you don't know what teamwork means. What's the word in your language for "everyone does his part and coordinates with everyone else?"


Quote:
Also, where is the use of "Synergy" in UWSC exactly?
7 characters with practically the same build is quite the opposite of "synergy" if you ask me. Go look at the definition of synergy if you don't believe me. And you show your ignorance again. All of the sins in UWSC don't use the same build because of 2 skills any more than most rangers use the same build because they all take Distracting Shot.

kanuks

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Targren View Post
Firstly, stop putting words in my mouth. It only makes you look dishonest. I never said they weren't concerned with speed-clears. I said that they were (correctly, IMHO and as I've advocated since the start of this fracas) looking at changing the AREA instead of the SKILL. Yes, they nerfed the skill twice, and oh yeah... buffed it twice, and left it maintainable intentionally.
Yet they are still reconsidering a nerf...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Targren View Post You're certainly fixated, aren't you? The point was that you were wrong, you have no business speaking for the developers, especially when you DIRECTLY contradict what they themselves have said.
They said they had a concern with speed clears and those runs are abused because of SF. Where do I contradict what they said exactly? Be it a skill nerf or an area nerf, the result is the same : no peoples clearing an elite area in 20 mins. You get it or you want a picture?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Targren View Post That has yet to be demonstrated. Not one of them, to date, succeeds logically, substantiated by fact rather than preference.
Has yet to be demonstrated? Have you even read this thread? Of course, someone using Ursan as a reason or a proof that SF should not be nerfed isn't going to see the light behind the reasons why SF should be nerfed. You are biased as hell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Targren View Post That makes no sense... First off, there ARE requirements for entering all but two elite areas (Tombs and Sorrow's Furnace, if they are even considered "Elite" anymore...), completely independent of "reaching the outpost." Secondly, just because they reach the outpost does not mean they have any intention of waiting around for two hours for a pug to form before spending 2-3 in the elite area, only to probably fail. So either you're full of it, or you're using a definition of "casual" that I was not previously aware of.
What are these requirements? Finish the game? Pay one platinum. Whoa big deal! You act like only farmers should play UW or what? That's what u just said. You act like casual players are the ones that haven't finished one of the campaign yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Targren View Post You're the one who called casual players "random morons."
No you are. Which players do you think have the most needs of forming a pug? Thats right, casual players. You called pugs "random morons" but fail to admit that 90% of the pugs are casual players. Admit that you are wrong instead trying to justify the idiocy that you said. You talk about me putting words in your mouth and then you say I am the one that called casual players moron. What a nice use of double standards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Targren View Post I called pugs "Random Morons." That is based entirely on experience, and it is an experience shared by many. Just look at the old 7-heroes thread.
Read my previous response : 90% of pugs are casual players, smartass.

Quote: Originally Posted by Targren View Post I will explain it more simply (because you will doubtless use your "English is not my primary language" dodge to explain your illiteracy on this point, despite the fact that you were able to read everything else I wrote.) Again, personnal insults. Running out of arguments perhaps?

Quote: Originally Posted by Targren View Post GIVEN: DoA was an ursan fest.
GIVEN: While DoA was an ursan fest, it was crowded, and there was always a pug to be had (if you met requirements).
CHANGE: Ursan was nerfed.
RESULT: No more PUGs in DoA. The difference is blatant but you fail to see it :

Ursan doa = pugs everywhere. easy to get a game but everyone using 2 monks + 6 ursans so that goes against the GW philosophy.

UWSC with SF = No one can find a pug but that's still groups consisting of 7 SFers. That goes even more against the GW philosophy.

Your entire argument is based over the fact that even if SF is nerfed, forming a pug will still be very difficult (You ignore the fact that it would still be easier than it is right now). But you fail to admit that SF is a broken skill, the most broken in the game on top of that. Ursan was broken and got hit by the nerf bat, SF is broken and should be nerfed. You know it but you don't want to admit it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Targren View Post
Those bastards are going to nerf Broad Head Arrow?! Nice attempt at being funny but still a miserable fail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Targren View Post
No. It won't. See DoA. It won't be as bad as it is now. You know it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Targren View Post
Another failed argument. There is no such thing as an "economy" when supply is infinite. There is no "Central Bank of Tyria" that gives the coins to monsters to drop. Sorry but the concept of economy is used in each and every mmorpg. No need of a central bank. A game's economy begins to fail when an item that used to sell for 100k is now sold for less than 5k because some areas are overfarmed. Sup vigors used to be 100k. Then there was the ettin run and they quickly dropped to the 20k range.

Quote: No.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Targren View Post
Usually, yes. But according to you they shouldn't even have the right to try, Mr. Superiority.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Targren View Post
Then you don't know what teamwork means. What's the word in your language for "everyone does his part and coordinates with everyone else?" Yes everyone does his part... litterally. His part of the map... alone. Great teamwork indeed...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Targren View Post
And you show your ignorance again. All of the sins in UWSC don't use the same build because of 2 skills any more than most rangers use the same build because they all take Distracting Shot. The difference here is that it's 3 skills AND the same build concept : be invincible and be able to do enough damage to do your part alone. There is no synergy. It's not like 2 SFers coupled together benefits a lot from each other more than let's say, a monk and a warrior. Warrior needs the healing while the monk needs the enemies killed. A synegized team is more like front lines, middle lines, casters and healers. 7 SFers are the opposite of synergy. You fail big time on that one.

Bloodgrave

Guest

Join Date: May 2009

If a skill is unbalanced enough to produce 13 pages of QQ then I guess that counts for something.

AtomicMew

AtomicMew

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

N/A

Quote:
Originally Posted by kanuks View Post
Using stone of jordans as an example is ridiculous because D2's economy was the most pathetic economy of any games ever. When an economy rely on a very rare item that was duped with a hack to the point it became very common then it's easy to realise the economy in question Fails with a capital F. wrong is wrong. You are it.

SoJ as currency arose because gold was worthless. Hack or not has ZERO bearing on whether the economy was bad or not. If SoJs didn't exist, there would just be some other currency, like gems or runestones.

That's so dead obvious, I'm seriously not even sure how you can be so illogical.
i like this post and in a semi-responce. Horsemen are THE hard point in UW...but with a group of people who arent idiots :P and yes Jeydra i know YOU know...its not THAT hard *more a solidification of your point BUT its perfectly do-able without a sf sin....so long as your not alseep or completely retarded.....

Retro quote!
Quote:
Originally Posted by traversc View Post

The only 2 reasons I can think of are:
1) Youre a noob and you need a scapegoat to explain why you have no money and continue to be poor and a noob.
2) Youre already rich in the face and want your e-peen to mean more by not allowing others to have eblades, VSF, obbys, FoW, etc because you're a giant MF.
Tbh......yes....period.


*edit : wow...beer makes me do smileys a lot

AtomicMew

AtomicMew

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

N/A

Quote:
Originally Posted by kanuks View Post
Do you want GW's gold to be meaningless? If ectos was the new GW currency then it would just collapse since the only way to earn money would be to play in UW.
Um, no? Where did I ever say that or remotely imply that?

Quote:
Go back and read throught the thread. But this time, open your eyes. How mind-boggling ironic.
Quote:
Edit: Actually, you're right! If I just stay huddled in Ascalon and ignore every high-end area in the game, SF will have no effect on me. So UWSC reduces your purchasing power how?

YOU need to re-read this thread. It's been agreed that UWSC is actually not that fast compared to other farms.

Furthermore, people who do UWSC don't even play the game with you, so again, why do you care?

The only 2 reasons I can think of are:
1) Youre a noob and you need a scapegoat to explain why you have no money and continue to be poor and a noob.
2) Youre already rich in the face and want your e-peen to mean more by not allowing others to have eblades, VSF, obbys, FoW, etc because you're a giant MF.

So which are you?

upier

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeydra View Post
@above - I thought you agreed that meeting crap with more crap isn't a smart thing to do. I just said this is just going round and round and round:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...&postcount=188

So that would be a "no".

Ugh

Ugh

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2009

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by traversc
*entire post*
I have no idea how you managed to stray that incredibly far from my point.
Quote:
So UWSC reduces your purchasing power how?

YOU need to re-read this thread. It's been agreed that UWSC is actually not that fast compared to other farms.
Not only is that not even close to what I was talking about, it's wrong. The only time UWSC isn't that much faster is when compared to a similar farm with obby tanks.

To clarify:

Quote: Originally Posted by traversc
UWSC has ZERO effect on you if you just ignore it. That is untrue for several reasons listed throughout this thread and its predecessor. Since it has been discussed many times, I wanted you to reread this thread instead of blindly repeating the same (false) argument.

When I said:

Quote:
Edit: Actually, you're right! If I just stay huddled in Ascalon and ignore every high-end area in the game, SF will have no effect on me. I was satirizing the fact that SF is used in almost every high-end area and would be impossible to ignore without resticting myself to low-end areas or NM.

From now on, please read both my responses and the part I am responding to to avoid further confusion.

Quote:
Furthermore, people who do UWSC don't even play the game with you, so again, why do you care?

The only 2 reasons I can think of are:
1) Youre a noob and you need a scapegoat to explain why you have no money and continue to be poor and a noob.
2) Youre already rich in the face and want your e-peen to mean more by not allowing others to have eblades, VSF, obbys, FoW, etc because you're a giant MF. 3) I'm a person who remembers the good ol' days when GW took skill to excel in and I would like those days to return.
4) I'm a person with enough sense to realize that SF is disgustingly broken.

Life Bringing

Life Bringing

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2008

Fissure of Woe

[LOD]/[GS]/[DL]/[LOD*]

N/P

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugh View Post
Not only is that not even close to what I was talking about, it's wrong. The only time UWSC isn't that much faster is when compared to a similar farm with obby tanks. Umm..He's actually right. UWSC is a shit way to make money. Maybe 7-11k in a half hour? Half of your runs fail? Now compare that to DoA where you can easily get 100k/hour.
EDIT:Now that i read that, i think i misread something.

kanuks

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by upier View Post
I am bored of this thread, because it's just the same thing over and over again.
Still, this one is just too good to let go:

SF is broken.
The funny thing?
Not only is A.Net aware of this, they DESIGNED it to be broken.
It's a PvE only skill designed for farming.

The simple fact that SF is broken, doesn't mean it needs to be fixed. Oh yeah I can picture it.

A-Net's big boss : "Ok guys! Today we design a broken skill. We want that skill to be abused. You know these Elite areas it took us so much times to develop? Well I want the players to run these in 20 mins with that skill. Oh yeah and since it'll be such a powerful skill, I want it to be class exclusive so that it's not being abused. Hell yeah let's do it. Today's a magical day!"

reaper with no name

reaper with no name

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2009

FaZ

D/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloody Dominator View Post
Ur right, every class should have its own SF, if SF doesnt get nerfed. Would be fair to everyone. But ofcourse there would be more abuse, so that might be not so good, but u wouldn't here anyone complaining (well not me anyways ).

Now ive said this, u all need to stop arguing. its just rediculous now, u all keep repeating the same things over and over
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrage View Post If they nerf shadow form, I welcome it with open arms, and I really only play sin O.o, if they give us more options and the like, (what they did with the recent update) it would be perfect. Sure we can't farm as well as before, but at least we aren't breaking the game in half with a sickening crack.
These are two very opposite solutions to the same problem. And honestly, I would support either one of them (mainly because the first would undoubtedly lead to the second). Though the second is definitely the preferable one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by upier View Post
I am bored of this thread, because it's just the same thing over and over again.
Still, this one is just too good to let go:

SF is broken.
The funny thing?
Not only is A.Net aware of this, they DESIGNED it to be broken.
It's a PvE only skill designed for farming.

The simple fact that SF is broken, doesn't mean it needs to be fixed. First of all, it was not designed for farming. It was designed as a temporary-invulnerability skill. It morphed into a farming skill once people learned it could be maintained (something Anet never intended).

But, let's assume for a moment it was designed for farming. Even under that interpretation, it needs to be changed, because it was most certainly NOT designed for SCs or curbstomping 90% of PvE (which is what the skill currently does). How do I know? Because Anet went to a lot of trouble to create a game with a lot of skills and professions. They wouldn't have gone to all that trouble if they didn't want that stuff used. But to intentionally put such a vastly superior option in the game is the same as saying "here, use this and ONLY use this, since it's the only thing worth your time". Using anything except permaSF is like putting mending on your bar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EinherjarMx View Post
that's plain stupid.

I've seen casual players that don't even know about the sabway/discordway.

Shinier things are meant to be for people who work hard for them. Just as in RL

If I work only 40 hours a week, am I entitled to get the same shiny car as my neighbor who works 60 hours/week, when we have the same wage?

If you're standing for players that want to play their game the way they want, then I WANT TO PLAY using /bamph!

btw, first post was one of the biggest flamebaits I've seen here on guru XD Oh, and if Anet really intended for there to be options like permaSF in the game, you have to ask yourself one question: why didn't they just give us BAMPH! ? SF and BAMPH! are really just two sides of the same coin. If you use BAMPH! correctly, you can kill anything. If you use SF correctly, nothing can kill you.

In fact...You want to know how overpowered SF is? It's so powerful I'm not even sure BAMPH! can kill it!

(well, okay, it can, but only because BAMPH! is a skill, not a spell; otherwise it wouldn't be able to )

Point is, they gave us SF, but not BAMPH!. Why? Because they knew BAMPH! was overpowered. They didn't know SF was overpowered. Now they do (I assume), but now they're worried about people crying because they won't have an instant win button any more (either that, or they just haven't had the chance due to company stuff or time).

But you know what? That doesn't change the fact that as a broken skill, SF needs to be fixed. That's how it works. If something is broken, it requires fixing. Otherwise, it's not broken in the first place. And SF is most certainly broken.

AtomicMew

AtomicMew

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

N/A

Ugh (ugh lol). You're just wrong everywhere, I hardly know where to begin.

First, UWSC is NOT particularly faster than any other farm. If you can't even realize that then it's pretty obvious to everyone you have no clue what you're talking about.

Re: SF taking over every high end area. If you don't want to use SF because it's "disgusting", then find other people like-minded to do balanced-way with you. You obviously think that there are lots of other people out there who agree with you. Why don't you farm a "no SF" club while you're at it?

"But but but... if I do balanced-way, I don't make as much money!"

Duh.... But if you were ONLY interested in money, even UWSC would not be the way to go. UWSC is actually pretty bad at making money. Even feather farm and raptor farm are comparable.

Again, stop trying to force other people to play the gameYOUR way.

Quote:
3) I'm a person who remembers the good ol' days when GW took skill to excel in and I would like those days to return.
4) I'm a person with enough sense to realize that SF is disgustingly broken. 3) lol.
4) lol.

kanuks

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by reaper with no name View Post
These are two very opposite solutions to the same problem. And honestly, I would support either one of them (mainly because the first would undoubtedly lead to the second). Though the second is definitely the preferable one.



First of all, it was not designed for farming. It was designed as a temporary-invulnerability skill. It morphed into a farming skill once people learned it could be maintained (something Anet never intended).

But, let's assume for a moment it was designed for farming. Even under that interpretation, it needs to be changed, because it was most certainly NOT designed for SCs or curbstomping 90% of PvE (which is what the skill currently does). How do I know? Because Anet went to a lot of trouble to create a game with a lot of skills and professions. They wouldn't have gone to all that trouble if they didn't want that stuff used. But to intentionally put such a vastly superior option in the game is the same as saying "here, use this and ONLY use this, since it's the only thing worth your time". Using anything except permaSF is like putting mending on your bar.



Oh, and if Anet really intended for there to be options like permaSF in the game, you have to ask yourself one question: why didn't they just give us BAMPH! ? SF and BAMPH! are really just two sides of the same coin. If you use BAMPH! correctly, you can kill anything. If you use SF correctly, nothing can kill you.

In fact...You want to know how overpowered SF is? It's so powerful I'm not even sure BAMPH! can kill it!

(well, okay, it can, but only because BAMPH! is a skill, not a spell; otherwise it wouldn't be able to )

Point is, they gave us SF, but not BAMPH!. Why? Because they knew BAMPH! was overpowered. They didn't know SF was overpowered. Now they do (I assume), but now they're worried about people crying because they won't have an instant win button any more (either that, or they just haven't had the chance due to company stuff or time).

But you know what? That doesn't change the fact that as a broken skill, SF needs to be fixed. That's how it works. If something is broken, it requires fixing. Otherwise, it's not broken in the first place. And SF is most certainly broken. Yep SF is indeed broken and anything that is broken, in the litteral meaning of the word, has to be fixed. Many of the pro-SF posters in that post were eventually forced to admit that it is broken. They just has excuses for SF not being nerfed. Sorry guys, but what is broken needs to be fixed

kanuks

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by traversc View Post
Ugh (ugh lol). You're just wrong everywhere, I hardly know where to begin.

First, UWSC is NOT particularly faster than any other farm. If you can't even realize that then it's pretty obvious to everyone you have no clue what you're talking about.

Re: SF taking over every high end area. If you don't want to use SF because it's "disgusting", then find other people like-minded to do balanced-way with you. You obviously think that there are lots of other people out there who agree with you. Why don't you farm a "no SF" club while you're at it?

"But but but... if I do balanced-way, I don't make as much money!"

Duh.... But if you were ONLY interested in money, even UWSC would not be the way to go. UWSC is actually pretty bad at making money. Even feather farm and raptor farm are comparable.

Again, stop trying to force other people to play the gameYOUR way.


3) lol.
4) lol. LOL Warning : teenager post. I'm sure you were "laughing out loud". Or is it "lot of laugh"? Sorry I don't use the geek-teen language often.

fenix

fenix

Major-General Awesome

Join Date: Aug 2005

Aussie Trolling Crew HQ - Event Organiser and IRC Tiger

Ex Talionis [Law], Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] ????????????????&#

W/

Suggesting there is an SF 'argument', means there would need to be more than one valid viewpoint.

There is not.

The only valid viewpoint is that SF is broken, and needs to be destroyed.

Ugh

Ugh

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2009

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by traversc View Post
First, UWSC is NOT particularly faster than any other farm.
Sorry, but are you talking about any farms in all areas or are you talking about other clearing options for UW. In case we were on the wrong page, I was talking about other clearing options for UW. The only non-meta UWSC options of a comparable time to the meta is the one that uses obsidian tanks instead of SF (I could be mistaken, please provide screenshots if there are other builds that can clear UW in <20 mins).
Quote:
Re: SF taking over every high end area. If you don't want to use SF because it's "disgusting", then find other people like-minded to do balanced-way with you. You obviously think that there are lots of other people out there who agree with you.
I don't remember claiming that I was the majority. It would take a long time to assemble a balanced team for any area that can be easily done with SF.
Quote:
Why don't you farm a "no SF" club while you're at it?
"But but but... if I do balanced-way, I don't make as much money!" Don't remember saying that either.
Quote:
Again, stop trying to force other people to play the gameYOUR way. You stop trying to force other people to play the game YOUR way.

-No one PUGs anything other than the meta; SF is the only option.
-I'm not going to ditch my guild so I can start doing balancedway.
Quote:
Suggesting there is an SF 'argument', means there would need to be more than one valid viewpoint.

There is not.

The only valid viewpoint is that SF is broken, and needs to be destroyed. Amen.

Daenara

Daenara

Bad Romance

Join Date: May 2006

Aussie Trolling Crew HQ - Grand Matron

Mo/



This is going nowhere.