How to nerf: reprogram terrorweb dryders to use lava font if there is only player.
Btw I don't even see a point at nerfing the underworld. Only a handful of guilds can complete it in less than 10min but the rest of society has a 90% failure rate. I did bout 15 runs and only have gotten 4 chests. I really see no point in nerfing uwsc
Best way to nerf UWSC?
Thenameless Wonder
Maker of the fallen
There is the only way, imho, to nerf it and have everyone happy.
Since they already said it needed to be changed, they are not going to "just leave it alone" as some of you put it.
Others said that the simple fix would be to put all sorts of skills that get past shadow form into underworld, only problem with that is, anything that isn't UWSC will have even more of a hard time with it. How do you expect to run a balance hmm? So that's a no bueno.
I also don't like the idea of nerfing it to hell. Another smiter's boon would just show us that they don't care about guild wars anymore.
So, all that leaves is, ZOMG WuT iz it!1!!!11! Remaking the skill completely...
Let's do an aegis (pvp) and just make a brand new skill that isn't broken.
Would make my day if they did this, not only showing motivation in the team, but, giving us a brand new elite for the game.
Just my two cents.
Since they already said it needed to be changed, they are not going to "just leave it alone" as some of you put it.
Others said that the simple fix would be to put all sorts of skills that get past shadow form into underworld, only problem with that is, anything that isn't UWSC will have even more of a hard time with it. How do you expect to run a balance hmm? So that's a no bueno.
I also don't like the idea of nerfing it to hell. Another smiter's boon would just show us that they don't care about guild wars anymore.
So, all that leaves is, ZOMG WuT iz it!1!!!11! Remaking the skill completely...
Let's do an aegis (pvp) and just make a brand new skill that isn't broken.
Would make my day if they did this, not only showing motivation in the team, but, giving us a brand new elite for the game.
Just my two cents.
Schnellburg
You don't run SF in a balanced team.
Nighthawk2dr
I don't really see why everyone wants it nerfed...cheap ectos=good thing. Besides, how does UWSC affect you and your experience in the UW anyways? It's not like you could actually find anyone who wasn't solo farming smites before uwsc came out 
, and if you did, chances were you failed in 10 minutes
. Get a guild group and do balanced if you want.
anyways.
Couple ways you could nerf it.
Make Shadow Form a stance. Simple enough, still makes sense, won't work with deadly paradox.
Make the recharge reduction time of Deadly Paradox non-stacking.
Reduce Deadly paradox's skill recharge reduction to 25% instead of 33%.
Hmmm. just thought of this. Switch some numbers around. ^^ What about something like this.
Deadly Paradox - All of your attack skills are disabled for 13...5 seconds. For 10 seconds, your Assassin skills activate and recharge 15...33% faster.
Seems like this would solve quite a few of the problems. In order to maintain shadow form you would need 11-12 points in deadly arts. You would still be able to maintain it, but it wouldn't be an uber farm build. You could even change it to 15...50% and it would still require 6 points, reducing the efficiency of most of the UWSC builds.
Makes sense to me... =P
Maybe it's too late and I need to go to bed...
, and if you did, chances were you failed in 10 minutes. Get a guild group and do balanced if you want. anyways.
Couple ways you could nerf it.
Make Shadow Form a stance. Simple enough, still makes sense, won't work with deadly paradox.
Make the recharge reduction time of Deadly Paradox non-stacking.
Reduce Deadly paradox's skill recharge reduction to 25% instead of 33%.
Hmmm. just thought of this. Switch some numbers around. ^^ What about something like this.
Deadly Paradox - All of your attack skills are disabled for 13...5 seconds. For 10 seconds, your Assassin skills activate and recharge 15...33% faster.
Seems like this would solve quite a few of the problems. In order to maintain shadow form you would need 11-12 points in deadly arts. You would still be able to maintain it, but it wouldn't be an uber farm build. You could even change it to 15...50% and it would still require 6 points, reducing the efficiency of most of the UWSC builds.
Makes sense to me... =P
Maybe it's too late and I need to go to bed...
IronSheik
UWSC can't be fixed, remove Underworld.
amirite devs?
amirite devs?
Bug John
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Barrage
Okay, they aren't concerned about the skill obviously, ( They haven't nerfed it in all this time) they are concerned about elite areas getting demolished by it, and the skill generally taking over all PvE builds, as ursan did.
|
SF is just another farm build, overpowered or not, depends on the income it generates (not so high if you're pugging it btw)
if you start killing farming (in general, SF or anything else), as elite areas have absolutely no repeatability, they'll be as dead as doa
nerfing SF won't promote balanced pugs, people will just move on to another farm, because there's absolutely NO point in doing anything else
seriously, would you really spend 2 or 3 hours completing an area for a diamond and a passage scroll (more than once, for fun) ?
make UW hard as hell if you want, but make the rewards worthwhile, or just let things as they are (broken)
sLiceR
smiter's boon SF imho
ll Jamie ll
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by sLiceR
smiter's boon SF imho
|
Personally im going with an idea posted in the first page of this thread, making SF cast in about 6 seconds. (paradox making it roughly 4.5 secs)
It could still be possible to keep up SF, but would cut down on the amount of UWSC's due to a high chance of failing Shadow Form and making the run more longer and annoying. You would need good timing to keep up SF, however this is just my idea.
Or just make AI (Dhuum Riders) use Signet of Humility better, so that they use it on you while SF is recharging.
Atro
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bug John
most of you fail to see the real problem
SF is just another farm build, overpowered or not, depends on the income it generates (not so high if you're pugging it btw) if you start killing farming (in general, SF or anything else), as elite areas have absolutely no repeatability, they'll be as dead as doa nerfing SF won't promote balanced pugs, people will just move on to another farm, because there's absolutely NO point in doing anything else seriously, would you really spend 2 or 3 hours completing an area for a diamond and a passage scroll (more than once, for fun) ? make UW hard as hell if you want, but make the rewards worthwhile, or just let things as they are (broken) |
People fail to see balanced team in PUGs are dead and have been since forever and always will be unless you can find a guild or you have a group of friends. And yes you make a good point about spending 2 to 3 hours in uw just toi get crap. Maybe just maybe if balanced groups do return they probably wont even last half as long as Ursan or SF did, not because of Anet because people just dont feel the need to spend that much time and get nothing.
I say go ahead and nerf SF, Ill move along to another farm/meta along with 90% of the other permas.
Renegade26
The success of the UWSC PUG is that each role is very easy. If you make it too hard for the random noobs, people will give up based on frustration, whilst guild groups will continue to farm at high speeds. Sounds worse to me.
If you just want to slow everyone down without breaking the whole thing, change the 33% less damage to 50% or 66%. Pools can still kill CBlacknesses, degeners are mostly unaffected, but mnts and such will be slowing the whole run down for those players now. Itll still be possibly under the 30mins, people wont fail more often, and guild groups will be slowed down by a few minutes.
If you just want to slow everyone down without breaking the whole thing, change the 33% less damage to 50% or 66%. Pools can still kill CBlacknesses, degeners are mostly unaffected, but mnts and such will be slowing the whole run down for those players now. Itll still be possibly under the 30mins, people wont fail more often, and guild groups will be slowed down by a few minutes.
beaverlegions
Wont people ever get bored of lets nerf sf threads?
Martin Alvito
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by beaverlegions
Wont people ever get bored of lets nerf sf threads?
|
People keep talking about it because it affects every PvE player in some way. The discussion about IWAY was similar back in the day in PvP.
gone
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by beaverlegions
Wont people ever get bored of lets nerf sf threads?
|
Bug John
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Martin Alvito
There are important issues in PvE?
A few loudmouths keep talking about it on these boards because they have nothing else to do. |
important issues in pve... I'm quite impressed with this one, can I use it again or is there some kind of copyright ?
many say SF affects other players, but I'd really like to hear at least once HOW it does so
the analogy with iway fails, the only thing those skills have in common is that people will still QQ about it as long as GW exists
Atro
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by flubber
yes they will/do. after the a/e SF nerf, there will be plenty of foot stomping and taking of balls home. the next time around it will be about ?/rt spirit spamming.
|
moriz
best way to nerf SF?
change monster AI to use the charr skill "gloat" and move half aggro range away as soon as a player use SF. problem solved.
change monster AI to use the charr skill "gloat" and move half aggro range away as soon as a player use SF. problem solved.
olalunga
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nighthawk2dr
Make Shadow Form a stance. Simple enough, still makes sense, won't work with deadly paradox.
|
leave SF as it is and @%^&#$ Deadly Paradox
Bitoku Kishi
I don't think you need to make Shadow Form unusable, just more balanced in the game in general. It's not a problem with UW specifically, as much as it's a problem with the skill itself. It's just imbalanced overall. This is why I proposed the following change to the PvE Shadow Form, which isn't just a straight nerf:
Energy Cost = 10
Casting Time = 1
Recharge Time = 30
Elite Enchantment Spell. For 5...18...21 seconds, all hostile Spells that target you fail and all attacks against you miss, but you deal 33% less damage. When Shadow Form ends, lose all but 5...41...50 Health. You cannot activate Shadow Form while enchanted with Shadow Form.
If you notice, I've actually reduced the recharge time on the skill, from 45 to 30. This buff would make Shadow Form much easier to maintain, and eliminate the need for some of the extra skills that are now required to get the recharge and duration to synchronize with each other. This in turn would make Shadow Forming easier on energy overall. And if that's not enough, I think the skill's duration could even be buffed to cap at around 26-30 seconds instead of 21, to make it potentially maintainable without any extra skills at all.
The additional qualification that I've added to the skill though, of it not being able to activate while enchanted with it, would force you to take the health cut after each time you use it. But additionally, and more importantly, this would give you a necessary ~1 second that you wouldn't have Shadow Form active each time in-between recasting it, requiring much more skill in using it. Specifically, you'd have to make sure you could survive for 1 second without it after each time you used it.
So overall, this change would actually make Shadow Form easier to maintain, but require more skill in using it, and also balance the skill out more. Seems like a win-win scenario to me.
Energy Cost = 10
Casting Time = 1
Recharge Time = 30
Elite Enchantment Spell. For 5...18...21 seconds, all hostile Spells that target you fail and all attacks against you miss, but you deal 33% less damage. When Shadow Form ends, lose all but 5...41...50 Health. You cannot activate Shadow Form while enchanted with Shadow Form.
If you notice, I've actually reduced the recharge time on the skill, from 45 to 30. This buff would make Shadow Form much easier to maintain, and eliminate the need for some of the extra skills that are now required to get the recharge and duration to synchronize with each other. This in turn would make Shadow Forming easier on energy overall. And if that's not enough, I think the skill's duration could even be buffed to cap at around 26-30 seconds instead of 21, to make it potentially maintainable without any extra skills at all.
The additional qualification that I've added to the skill though, of it not being able to activate while enchanted with it, would force you to take the health cut after each time you use it. But additionally, and more importantly, this would give you a necessary ~1 second that you wouldn't have Shadow Form active each time in-between recasting it, requiring much more skill in using it. Specifically, you'd have to make sure you could survive for 1 second without it after each time you used it.
So overall, this change would actually make Shadow Form easier to maintain, but require more skill in using it, and also balance the skill out more. Seems like a win-win scenario to me.
Martin Alvito
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bug John
fixed it for you, no need to thank me
|
[sarcasm]
Narrow-mindedness is win.
[/sarcasm]
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bug John
important issues in pve... I'm quite impressed with this one, can I use it again or is there some kind of copyright ?
|
HM Urgoz farming wasn't important?
The glitch that let players repeatedly farm Duncan wasn't important?
Ursan wasn't important?
Really? You want to take that stance?
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bug John
many say SF affects other players, but I'd really like to hear at least once HOW it does so
|
2) It forces players that want to farm to make a new character and farm all the PvE junk on that class to farm
3) It makes the non-farming crowd just that much poorer.
Basically, SF is kudzu. It has no natural predators and it's highly efficient, so it kills off all variety. If the most efficient team build for areas is comprised of various classes and bars, and the most efficient build varies from area to area, there's just a lot more content. There's always another way you could learn to play the game when variety exists.
That's before we even get into hyperinflation in high-end markets. Notice that these periods only occur when lots of ectos are being created (dupe/SF).
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bug John
the analogy with iway fails, the only thing those skills have in common is that people will still QQ about it as long as GW exists
|
AKB48
Best way to nerf UWSC: Permanent ban on anyone who do it.
AlsPals
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by slowerpoke
they dug themselves into a hole with consumables and pve skills
|
Shasgaliel
reduce ecto price to 50g. I would not change any of the skills atm.
QueenofDeath
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Shasgaliel
reduce ecto price to 50g. I would not change any of the skills atm.
|
And this is a much better build of SF
Energy Cost = 10
Casting Time = 1
Recharge Time = 120
Elite Enchantment Spell. For 5...18...21 seconds, all hostile Spells that target you fail and all attacks against you miss, but you deal 33% less damage. When Shadow Form ends, lose all but 5...41...50 Health and teleport to a random edge of within ear shot distance range.
My New Name
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by QueenofDeath
And this is a much better build of SF
Energy Cost = 10 Casting Time = 1 Recharge Time = 120 Elite Enchantment Spell. For 5...18...21 seconds, all hostile Spells that target you fail and all attacks against you miss, but you deal 33% less damage. When Shadow Form ends, lose all but 5...41...50 Health and teleport to a random edge of within ear shot distance range. |
FengShuiDove
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by QueenofDeath
Although that's a great idea the SFers would just find a new spot to unlimited easy farming.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by QueenofDeath
Dervishers have to deal with a useless elite for 120 seconds why shouldn't sins?
|
Lastly, your version of SF is terrible.
SonofGrenth
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by SomeSayImFamous
For like the 3rd time you cannot remove underworld from the game it is not an option due to the fact that ectos drop 80% of the time there. How would people ever get there prestidge armor.
|
AKB48
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by SonofGrenth
You know that 74% of all the people make up facts based on nothing?
|
QueenofDeath
I thought of the most excellent way to nerf SF.
Make it require a resource to activate. And that resource would be a zashien key.
) Everybody can get zashien keys and then those SFers would have to buy them from everybody.
I remember in Everquest there were many spells that required a resource to cast. I remember Clerics had to have something and I think Enchanters as well to cast some pretty high powerful spells.
"might as well just erase it then"
EXACTLY! unless you want to use my new perfect nerf idea.)
Actually it's more like 99.9% and the most common words they use are "everybody", "majority", "entire player base", did I say "everybody"? lol Oh and "nobody", "that idea sucks", "you suck noob", "moron", "idiot", "worst idea I ever heard", "stupid", "retarded" oh and the list goes on an on oh and "most" like in "Most people will say anything and use any non documented numbers to fulfill their own agendas.
Make it require a resource to activate. And that resource would be a zashien key.
) Everybody can get zashien keys and then those SFers would have to buy them from everybody.I remember in Everquest there were many spells that required a resource to cast. I remember Clerics had to have something and I think Enchanters as well to cast some pretty high powerful spells.
Quote:
| Your "much better" build is pretty useless,who would ever use that? might as well just erase it then... |
EXACTLY! unless you want to use my new perfect nerf idea.
)Quote:
|
Quote: Originally Posted by SonofGrenth You know that 74% of all the people make up facts based on nothing? |
HawkofStorms
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by AKB48
And does that 74% includes you too?
|
Scary
Well for me, I don't care if SF is staying alive in use for tanking in dungeons or so.
But for UWSC.. Just put in a Environment effect that effects skills as SF
in a very negative way. And let this effect go away as more people join the party.
So with 1 person the effect has his 100% durability. and stop the effect
when it is a party of 8.
So now people will say, yes but than you get groups of 8 sins.
Yes, but they have to share drops by 8..I don't know if that is so profitable.
Just an idea
But for UWSC.. Just put in a Environment effect that effects skills as SF
in a very negative way. And let this effect go away as more people join the party.
So with 1 person the effect has his 100% durability. and stop the effect
when it is a party of 8.
So now people will say, yes but than you get groups of 8 sins.
Yes, but they have to share drops by 8..I don't know if that is so profitable.
Just an idea
eximiis
- Simply put perma well of profane in choke points, like where Obsidian Behemoth stand to trap.
SF get's strip, so no more UWSC. This would change nothing to normal pug.
- Decrease difficulty of UW, make normal PUG easier and faster, so ppl will still do UW
SF get's strip, so no more UWSC. This would change nothing to normal pug.
- Decrease difficulty of UW, make normal PUG easier and faster, so ppl will still do UW
Targren
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by QueenofDeath
I thought of the most excellent way to nerf SF.
Make it require a resource to activate. And that resource would be a zashien key. ) Everybody can get zashien keys and then those SFers would have to buy them from everybody. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Scary
Well for me, I don't care if SF is staying alive in use for tanking in dungeons or so.
But for UWSC.. Just put in a Environment effect that effects skills as SF in a very negative way. And let this effect go away as more people join the party. So with 1 person the effect has his 100% durability. and stop the effect when it is a party of 8. So now people will say, yes but than you get groups of 8 sins. Yes, but they have to share drops by 8..I don't know if that is so profitable. Just an idea |
QueenofDeath
Quote:
|
Quote: Originally Posted by QueenofDeath I thought of the most excellent way to nerf SF. Make it require a resource to activate. And that resource would be a zashien key. ) Everybody can get zashien keys and then those SFers would have to buy them from everybody. No. Even Blizzard was smart enough to realize that consumable-based skills were stupid (bye bye blinding powder). |
)
Targren
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by QueenofDeath
Well there's going to be a nerf bud so you might as well accept one where you can at least keep using it although you will need to buy zashien keys to do so.
) |
Even if it were another reagent, that's just something else to be farmed and spammed in Kamadan, thus would not affect UWSC and the QQing would continue.
IronSheik
Smiter's booning it would just show me how lazy live team is again.
We can't fix it so we'll just erase it.
Nerf FoW and UW, not SF.
Make it so Shadowformers can't roll thru it, but a normal team can.
We can't fix it so we'll just erase it.
Nerf FoW and UW, not SF.
Make it so Shadowformers can't roll thru it, but a normal team can.
Targren
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by IronSheik
Smiter's booning it would just show me how lazy live team is again.
|
Age
Make the UW like the Catacombs no entry fee and no favour and needs a party of 2 or 3 atleast.
Hellscream The Evil
sliver armor--> energy storage (or just a link with energy storage like glowing gaze or glowing ice)
-Makai-
I'm surprised Blackout has barely been mentioned. It's a Prophecies skill, considered touch class, and could considerably slow down speed clears. Similar to Dying Nightmares, a weak creature with Blackout equipped could randomly appear.
Martin Alvito
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by IronSheik
Make it so Shadowformers can't roll thru it, but a normal team can.
|
So all monsters should have touch skills and untargeted AoE skills on their bar? I hope you realize how incredibly limiting this would be, and how it would just lead to further exploitation. (If we spam slow hexes at them with one character, they can't reach us, and we can just trash them with seven other ranged damage dealers without ever needing to mitigate damage!)
Anything that will give SF trouble can be easily exploited by other strategies. You won't get balanced groups to form by stacking the monsters to beat SF. You'll just get new, degenerate groups.