Henchman Skill Bar Contest Winners! - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

dr love

...is in denial

Join Date: Sep 2006

Hyperion

starcraft 2

P/Me

02 Oct 2009 at 15:17 - 161

Quote:

Originally Posted by QueenofDeath

I sent in an excellent blind bot spammer and it didn't get picked.

I had glyph of immolation also on the bar for not only blinding with steam, but, causing burning for 3 seconds as well. The ai uses this build quite effectively at least in PVE so I don't understand why a blind bot isn't one of the henchies? It's a build I like to use myself when playing PVP. Makes melees and rangers scream foul foul foul all the time.

)

a blind bot is one of the henchies... who will excel at blinding casters when they have their shields out because they might spear things for 2 dmg. then again there are many players that do this also. i heard blind monks can't see their party members and so can't heal.

Karate Jesus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2008

Texas

Reign of Judgment [RoJ]

Me/

02 Oct 2009 at 15:18 - 162

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auron of Neon

You still wouldn't have won. The Man is keeping you down, remember?

Oh yea. It's cuz I'm black right........? Wait, no.

I wasn't really worried about winning, tbh. I am, however, pretty pissed that they didn't even follow their own contest guidelines. Seems like a waste of the people who actually submitted unique builds time.

Oh, well. I guess I should have expected this from Anet. At least everyone else thinks it's an epic fail too.

The Bremby

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2008

Roma, Italy

If U See Lamer With Brain Call [WWF]

E/N

02 Oct 2009 at 15:28 - 163

Nice list of PvXWiki exported builds!!

1 month for testing and choosing metabuilds. Is it a joke?

Karate Jesus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2008

Texas

Reign of Judgment [RoJ]

Me/

02 Oct 2009 at 15:30 - 164

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

This is going to be utterly hilarious. GG.

I think the situation they're in now is pretty hilarious. I said this on the GWW section on Linsey's page (which is currently getting raped), but I'll say it here as well.

I think they're stuck at this point. If they do in fact introduce these builds into the game, they will have essentially left the same problems in the game that they were trying to remove WHILE effectively enraging anyone who submitted a build that was "unique/not meta" like they requested.

However, it's too late for them to undo what they've done now simply because they've announced the winners already and going back on that would be unethical.

They're stuck between a rock and a hard place, and tbh, that's what they get for making incredibly foolish decisions and spending weeks working on this (and by working, I mean looking at PvX) rather than actually doing the tons of stuff that they've promised to do in-game.

QueenofDeath

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2009

02 Oct 2009 at 15:31 - 165

Quote:

i heard blind monks can't see their party members and so can't heal.

You know though that wouldn't be a bad implementation into the game when a caster has to cast a direct spell on someone or something if they are blind there could be a 50-75% chance of it fizzling?? This is an element that is not in this game, fizzles and should be. There shouldn't be 100% always cast always hit with spells.

I also submitted an awesome Ranger build that I use in RA. At least it isn't a pvx or pdq or whatever wiki build. It's dam powerful and my ai heroes also use it well in pve. It's not no dam interupt model either. (I wish they would take dam interupts rangers out of the game having mesmers interupt is quite enough).

) It has burning and bleeding and poison and a 40dmg every 3 seconds shot and two of those in fact. It would have been great for PVP I think.

Oh well Anet lies to us and lets us down again....what else is new?

Karate Jesus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2008

Texas

Reign of Judgment [RoJ]

Me/

02 Oct 2009 at 15:38 - 166

Quote:

Originally Posted by QueenofDeath

You know though that wouldn't be a bad implementation into the game when a caster has to cast a direct spell on someone or something if they are blind there could be a 50-75% chance of it fizzling?? This is an element that is not in this game, fizzles and should be. There shouldn't be 100% always cast always hit with spells.

wut? Let's not get off-topic (also, wut's daze?)

Killed u man

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

02 Oct 2009 at 15:38 - 167

I do have to agree on the fact that it infuriates me even more that the majority of people who won (or atleast who are posting here on guru) don't even HA/GvG.

Yes, I'm "happy" for you guys that you won, but in reality, you don't deserve it.

I have, and I'm not even kidding, wasted a full day on trial and error for my heroes builds, so that they would be used effectivly, only to find now people who'se ONLY PVP EXPERIENCE IS AB won by submitting a Wiki build, WHICH WASN'T EVEN ALLOWED.

On top of that, my builds were better. (And I mean this purely dps/effectivity wise)

Its a black day for Guild Wars, and I can only hope they will not continue this line of sloppy work with the TestKrewe

ele pl

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2007

E/

02 Oct 2009 at 15:39 - 168

Quote:

Originally Posted by QueenofDeath

You know though that wouldn't be a bad implementation into the game when a caster has to cast a direct spell on someone or something if they are blind there could be a 50-75% chance of it fizzling?? This is an element that is not in this game, fizzles and should be. There shouldn't be 100% always cast always hit with spells.

I though we all learned that "% chance for xxx" in GW (except blind and cripple) is bad

papryk

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2006

Nancy

The Autonomy[?????????]

02 Oct 2009 at 15:40 - 169

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormDragonZ

I'm probably going to be the only person to say this, but:

A build with Primal Rage won... really!?

EDIT: A build with Death Pact Signet won... really!?

pvp much?
12chars

Karate Jesus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2008

Texas

Reign of Judgment [RoJ]

Me/

02 Oct 2009 at 15:42 - 170

Quote:

Originally Posted by papryk

pvp much?
12chars

Actually, he's probably right about Prage. Heroes don't know how to cancel-stance, so they'll just take double damage the whole time....which is bad. That's why I intentionally avoided posting a meta Prage build....oh wait....

Lex

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2005

02 Oct 2009 at 15:43 - 171

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

They're stuck between a rock and a hard place, and tbh, that's what they get for making incredibly foolish decisions and spending weeks working on this (and by working, I mean looking at PvX) rather than actually doing the tons of stuff that they've promised to do in-game.

I think the answer for "why did it happen" lies here in Regina's journal:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

Over the past couple of weeks, Robert and Linsey have been looking at the Henchman Skill Bar contest submissions and deciding which of the bars you submitted should go into the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

H1N1 had a big impact on the Live Team in the first half of the month, with Linsey, Robert, and Joe coming down with symptoms. At one point during her illness, Linsey actually came into work, but was physically unable to work for more than an hour or two before getting fatigued, so she went right back home for rest and recuperation.

Two quotes and one question: how could single person (Linsey, Robert) at the same time: work good and be ill. It was impossible to get good results.

They were absent at work but they have deadline. They needed to make quick decision instead of carefully select good builds. Not enough time for all - thats the answer.

Hellscream The Evil

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2008

Sigh

N/

02 Oct 2009 at 15:47 - 172

hahahha 90% of the builds WERE on wiki... others are almost wiki builds with one or two skills changed xD
just a question...how can a henchman snare efficiently, or use infuse, or frenzy? o.O

(sorry for my bad english)

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

02 Oct 2009 at 15:48 - 173

Ele henchman with Gale? Yeah... that will work for the first 2 minutes of the fight. Then he'll be exhausted out for the rest of the match.

Oh well, for the most part, these builds are better then what we currently have. But still... not great. Knew I should have submitted a MB ele build and other meta stuff.

Also, stop whining if your leet "creative" build didn't win. These things have to be viable in a team. Plus, the notes that Linsey said with many of the bars not having an elite skill on them... pure fail on the GW's community part.

Nihal

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2009

aLL

W/

02 Oct 2009 at 15:53 - 174

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellscream The Evil

just a question...how can a henchman snare efficiently, or use infuse, or frenzy? o.O

ty hellscream is the same that i think

Emunator

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2006

DVDF

Mo/E

02 Oct 2009 at 15:59 - 175

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

Makes no sense. They never said they will upgrade the AI. You *thought* does not cut the mustard.

There is also no point in making builds *for* the AI if they plan to change the AI later. Which was actually the idea, to have some viable henchmen bars that work well.

Now we have henchmen with builds that cannot be properly used by heroes, that would require micro management and manually activating some skills.

Hmzz, next time read some more posts, i actually quoted someone who did say that.

Shayne Hawke

Departed from Tyria

Join Date: May 2007

Clan Dethryche [dth]

R/

02 Oct 2009 at 16:13 - 176

Now let's add the attribute spreads!

dr love

...is in denial

Join Date: Sep 2006

Hyperion

starcraft 2

P/Me

02 Oct 2009 at 16:16 - 177

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

Now let's add the attribute spreads!

i don't even want to know.

Igorputski

Banned

Join Date: Oct 2009

02 Oct 2009 at 16:19 - 178

This is a travesty they didn't fairly pick according to the rules I want my money back.

Hellscream The Evil

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2008

Sigh

N/

02 Oct 2009 at 16:25 - 179

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Ele henchman with Gale? Yeah... that will work for the first 2 minutes of the fight. Then he'll be exhausted out for the rest of the match.

Oh well, for the most part, these builds are better then what we currently have. But still... not great. Knew I should have submitted a MB ele build and other meta stuff.

Also, stop whining if your leet "creative" build didn't win. These things have to be viable in a team. Plus, the notes that Linsey said with many of the bars not having an elite skill on them... pure fail on the GW's community part.

I thought anet needed new ideas, a contest to discovery new builds with wiki builds winners is pointless imo
(if anet needed wiki builds they would had took the build from the website...

)

Krill

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

America

02 Oct 2009 at 16:25 - 180

Well as I said in the previous threads about the henchman contest, it's nice that anet finally did something about hero abuse but inevitably all off those heroes are absolutely useless for GvG and all but maybe two are useless for HA (the LC and SB hero). And even at with the two necro heroes they chose secondary skills on the LC that humans use (snares) and useless optional skills on the SB (FF and plague sending). The net result of this entire effort is that when someone drops in HA you'll now get a slightly less worse hench to replace them and a few people will be very rich with their new trinkets. Oh, and HA during American hours will be completely dead besides awesome 8 player builds like IWAY because heroways are about the only thing going after 7-8 EST on weekedays.

Qing Guang

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2008

California

Lucid Spirits [LIFE]

N/A

02 Oct 2009 at 16:28 - 181

Yeah I don't know much at all about PvP and builds and stuff, but um...

I stopped reading after the Frenzy war. Yeah. Even I can tell that's just dumb. I probably could have just tossed my Rit's RA build in and it would have been better than that... at least the AI can interpret mine.

And here I thought the whole thing was about creativity and considering the AI's limited strengths. I really oughta dial down the optimism.

EDIT: Actually, I'm really facepalming over NOT entering a build. I thought it'd be best if a PvE never-ever-PvPs-beyond-Arenas-and-AB person didn't enter a contest pertaining to higher PvP she knew nothing about, but as these seem to have been pulled out of a hat and no one is ever going to use most of these I might as well have tried.

Reflect

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2007

Varna,Bulgaria

Glob Of Ectospasm [GoE]

W/

02 Oct 2009 at 16:35 - 182

Heroes + those build = epic phail
wiki build winning = epic phail
so if we add those 2 up
Anet = epic phail ...

elk

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

02 Oct 2009 at 16:47 - 183

What about future meta skill changes where skills fall out of play? Anet will often take what's currently in use (which several bars currently mirror) and tweak them out of play while buffing others into play. Do they intend to maintenance these bars regularly or will it be left such that the AI can't play the bar correctly to begin with and then the skills on the bar aren't worth taking anyway? Or does this mean that these particular bars/skills will remain untouched in future balances (or that meta changes will also have to consider these bars before release)?

anywho, regardless of how it all pans out, congrats to those who won.

elk

zelgadissan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2008

The Warrior Priests [WP]

Me/Rt

02 Oct 2009 at 16:53 - 184

Let's face it - I'm pissed that essentially wiki builds won as well, but if they had actually followed the rules that they had initially set out, this thread would be just as many pages long with people bitching about how they ran a contest, took away manhours that could have gone to better content and/or PvP updates, and then made new henchmen with just as pointless skill bars as the ones we already have.

Anet can't win whatever they do. However, they could have at least stuck with what they initially said in the first place so maybe we'd actually believe in what they're telling us.

snaek

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

N/

02 Oct 2009 at 17:01 - 185

Quote:

Originally Posted by winterclaw

Unless anet plans on redoing the henchies everytime the meta changes one skill update will kill a number of the henchmen.

you mean like the distortion bar that was submitted before the september skill balance, and then the september skill balance specifically targetted to nerf this bar, yet they still decided to pick this bar as a winner?

Quote:

Originally Posted by regina buenaobra

The AI for the henchmen will be tweaked and improved as appropriate.

please do not waste time fixing the ai to run these builds effectively. there are better ways to spend your time than trying to make henchies play human bars just as good as humans. it really is a lost cause--it will be a bigger mistake than the mistake already made of picking these bars imo. i'd rather let these henchie bars stay as a joke than let them be viable to be used in pvp.

tealspikes

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2009

02 Oct 2009 at 17:07 - 186

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symeon

Quote:

Originally Posted by tealspikes

lol @ people who still think anet picked these bars for their effectiveness. They arent that stupid. The entire point of this move was to kill heroes - this contest is nothing but a diversion.

If this was their intention, why did they spend weeks being 'ridiculously busy' choosing from tens of thousands of entries? No, I don't believe ANet are clever enough to deliberately pick bars the AI can't run so that nobody will use them. I believe they chose them because they don't have a clue.

I can imagine the Live Team sitting around a table for hours discussing the merits of each build that would only apply if they were run by humans. They probably didn't spend a minute considering how AI would cope with them.

Oh, and most of the bars look like they were copied straight from PvXwiki; so much for the 'originality' demanded in the rules.

Why would anet have spent so much time and just end up with meta builds. Considering the limited resources given they probably skimmed through the first 500 or so and took the builds most recognizable to pvp players. If they did seriously review every single submission, I highly doubt they would have come up with wikitbuilds. Heck, the the entire reason for this contest was the removal AI from PvP why would anet even want to spend time finding workable builds. Kinda defeats the purpose.

Regina Buenaobra

ArenaNet

Join Date: Apr 2008

Me/

02 Oct 2009 at 17:08 - 187

Congrats to the winners.

The AI for the henchmen will be tweaked and improved as appropriate.

FoxBat

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Amazon Basin [AB]

Mo/Me

02 Oct 2009 at 17:13 - 188

ONLY possible silver lining to this cloud - I noticed they chose 4 builds for elementalists. You'd think like with warriors getting one per mastery, they would have one for each element; but instead they doubled up water in GvG and fire in HA. It's possible that this was done so the have the room to go back later and re-do the bars to represent all four elements. If THAT's the case, they might be planning to put up actually useful bars later (or keep tweaking the fail choices until they become useful). They are swamped with work now, so they just dartboard some winners and move on to their other tasks, with the hope of revisiting this in a few months.

I don't even care if some clueless nubs win the prize for zero effort, just give us some not completely retarded henchmen in the end.

Scythe O F Glory

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2008

New Jersey

League of Elite [LoE]

D/

02 Oct 2009 at 17:17 - 189

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

Congrats to the winners.

The AI for the henchmen will be tweaked and improved as appropriate.

Just don't mess up on the cancel stances (if you even do that). We don't want them using Frenzy, then immediately canceling it with the sligthest damage. Then again, I don't know why I would take a henchie war in the first place...

I Angra I

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2007

Napa, CA

Inadequately Equipped [GeAr]

R/N

02 Oct 2009 at 17:22 - 190

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

Congrats to the winners.

The AI for the henchmen will be tweaked and improved as appropriate.

Won't that take months of coding/testing/etc? There's some incredibly significant flaws in the AI that I can't imagine taking just a few days to change.

Lex

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2005

02 Oct 2009 at 17:35 - 191

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scythe O F Glory

Then again, I don't know why I would take a henchie war in the first place...

There is worse thing. Think of them as replacement if someone got err7 on the HA run... and?

Frenzy? PR? No.

From that point of view I would want my "Charge!" back

Oh, and btw:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

Congrats to the winners.

.. who (most of them) used "original" builds from pvxwiki? How about first rule of the contests about "originality"? Isnt it broken? I think we all need some explanations.

Quote:

Originality: Entries must be the submission of the contestant and cannot be taken from any other source. Your submission must not infringe on any patent, copyright, trademark or other intellectual property right, or any privacy, publicity or publishing rights of any third party, or be libelous, obscene or otherwise contrary to law.

hitsuji182

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2008

Poland

The Autonomy [?????????]

Mo/A

02 Oct 2009 at 17:49 - 192

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

Congrats to the winners.

The AI for the henchmen will be tweaked and improved as appropriate.

It's not the main issue. Everybody complains of your previous statement about originality etc. and about contest rules, which were broken. :/ Someone could work on build a few days and the person didn't win, but someone else who just copied skillbar from pvx won and will get prizes. I'm sure there were, just a few, creative and working builds, but no, better choose boring meta and dissapoint people.

Killed u man

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

02 Oct 2009 at 17:56 - 193

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

Congrats to the winners.

The AI for the henchmen will be tweaked and improved as appropriate.

Really?!

...

This is ALL you have to say?

I just went from kinda dissappointed and rather furious to simply amazed.

It's like you just opened the first thread with "contest" in it, and said: congratz to the winners, instead of actually reading said thread.

But yeah, AI is the main concern regarding this issue.

NOT how:

-> All the skill bars are directly ripped off wiki (Against rules)
-> None of them were original with the exception of few ("low" chance of winning)
-> Most of them are in meta right now (Against rules)
-> Most of them, and I mean all of them, will have MAJOR AI flaws
-> It wasn't specificly stated special AI would be created, and thus "smart" people would avoid skills such as Coward, Frenzy, and Prage
-> Some skill bars simply are bad

But yeah, those are obviously all minor things, just like GvG, HA. You can easily ignore those...

ousbique

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2006

France :)

Rage Team [rT]

Mo/

02 Oct 2009 at 18:01 - 194

Quote:

Originally Posted by hitsuji182

It's not the main issue.

Well i think it is, i don't care about the contest & prizes, the real objective is the end of "PvPvE" situation with :
1/ AI abusing
2/ Teambuilds and Individual IA builds that leads to a very consistant & strong party with only 4 or 6 humans in.
3/ Boring pvp situation (it's not funny to face, win or loose against bots)

But Anet people don't see the main issue, and selected problematics templates such as LC necro, Vor Mesmers or Soul bind (come on only curses necro). I'm pretty sure the current hex-hero pressure in HA can be tweaked a little to introduce thoses henchies... here we go again...

This half-solution will not satisfy everybody.

GMJStrongbad

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2006

In the United States

R/Mo

02 Oct 2009 at 18:07 - 195

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

Congrats to the winners.

The AI for the henchmen will be tweaked and improved as appropriate.

Grats to what? peoples ability to copy/paste wiki? Some people worked for a long time creating their original builds, testing them, planning them, and you guys go and give it to some people who just took 5 seconds out of their day to copy the builds off wiki?You guys BROKE YOUR OWN RULES FOR THE CONTEST, seriously, did you even take any time or effort into this contest at all?

Very disappointed in Anet

Shadowspawn X

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

Fellowship of Champions

R/E

02 Oct 2009 at 18:16 - 196

Why have a contest if all the winning builds are well known wiki's?

Zodiac Meteor

Imma Firin Mah Rojway!

Join Date: Aug 2008

At the Mac Store laughing at people that walk out with anything.

E/Mo

02 Oct 2009 at 18:20 - 197

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

Congrats to the winners.

The AI for the henchmen will be tweaked and improved as appropriate.

Ok, we can rule out that AI can be fixed for them.
Their builds won't be total wastes and will run properly.

But that still doesn't explain originality rule...

Um, you here Regina? *Checks viewing list*
Nope...

Hellscream The Evil

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2008

Sigh

N/

02 Oct 2009 at 18:33 - 198

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

Congrats to the winners.

The AI for the henchmen will be tweaked and improved as appropriate.

...utopia...

(p.s. my koss uses frenzy without any weapon equipped, i cant believe that a hench will run near the relic runner and will use "ward against enemies", moreover, how about 40/40? and tattics? bah)

Nihal

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2009

aLL

W/

02 Oct 2009 at 18:40 - 199

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellscream The Evil

...utopia...

(p.s. my koss uses frenzy without any weapon equipped, i cant believe that a hench will run near the relic runner and will use "ward against enemies", moreover, how about 40/40? and tattics? bah)

and what about make haste?XD i can't imagine that a npc use it well.. baaaaah

Draikin

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

02 Oct 2009 at 18:45 - 200

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

The AI for the henchmen will be tweaked and improved as appropriate.

So you're removing the format that needed those AI updates the most, and afterwards improve the AI for PVP formats where people don't want henches/heroes to see play. That doesn't make any sense to me.