Red Resigns: What will Anet do about this?

Amen to that brother.

On that note, have I mentioned I'm a Wiki Gnome? There's a feedback suggestion made by Karate Jesus for better communication in-game. A lot of people seem to be contributing to it. Maybe it will come to something (doubt it, but you never know).

Here's the link: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedb..._Communication

I'm starting to like that guy.

lack of swift action on this and other matters is why anet fail.

instead they chose to ignore it and the scale of the problem has grown to the point where any action is moot.

I think you need to stop being an ANet fanboy and look at the big picture here. RR day has been going on for weeks. Not once has ANet said anything about it. Yes, it's against the EULA. So is what rawr did in the monthly. How can you punish the thousands of players who participated in 'manipulating' a ladder that's going to be removed this week, but not do shit to players who manipulated something that mattered? No, I'm not saying that 'oh they got away with manipulating something that mattered so I can manipulate something that means shit all to ANet and get away with it', I'm saying that's not quite the message you want to be sending out to your community. ANet, stop playing favorites.

The issue could have been solved easily. What did ANet do? Let it slide until it got out of control. When do ANet step in to say something? When they want to imply that people will get banned for this.

What warning signs are you talking about? Yeah, they removed /roll. Did anyone get banned for it? No one ever reported it. It was obviously acceptable enough in their eyes to not do anything. But what happens when they let a minor issue get out of hand for weeks? They start throwing out bans. If you think that's logical, then your logic fails. In a declining game, if you expect people to not abuse something like this, you have absolutely no clue about what's going on.

What am I hiding? Words of a desperate, condemned man? That's hilarious. Ask anyone I play with the last time I logged on for more than 2 minutes. I'm hiding nothing. Gold is worthless in Guild Wars, I have plenty of better things to do than enter battle /resign repeat x100. I'm looking at this from a 'hey guys lets not make our already small community even smaller for dumb reasons' point of view.

In the end, ANet could have prevented this, they let it escalate, and now they're going to punish for it. They knew it was happening weeks before it got into a huge problem. They did nothing. Now since everyone is doing it, they finally decide to step in and ban people. If you think that's the right step in a declining game where a fair bit of the community (not only guru) already think low of ANet for their actions in the past, I beg you to never, ever apply for a gaming company, because the game would die quite fast.

quit reading right there. you're an ADMIN. Act like it.

I'm glad you have no counter argument. <3

PS: I hope you know saying someone is acting like a fanboy isn't flaming/trolling.

I do. but you know as well as I, who will end up with the ban, and or deleted posts.

right?

No one. If you think I'm going to ban you for arguing with me, then quite frankly I'm insulted.

Absolutely, but as we know they don't have the recources for swift action as far as coding is concerned, communication could have been their next best thing, coupled with action from support.

Imagine CR team and support working together and coordinating their efforts and Regina posting at the time the issue became hot that it is against the rules and that perma bans are coming up for everybody who's getting caught. This would certainly not have missed its effect imo. Even going ingame with 'GM' above the character and informing/warning people. It's something Gaile is not afraid of.

If ANet stated on the Guild Wars site that participating in it would get you banned, or at least informed the community (on something other than wiki, because it's a cesspool if shit to read through), then the bans would have been fair. Instead they kept their mouths shut until shit hit the fan, and began hiding behind the EULA. Just when I thought communication between the devs/community was getting better, this happens.

so let me get this right arkantos. you did not, nor do you think this RR resign was an exploit/ cheat in any way?

this bullshit, rawr did it..1000s did it. doesn't cut it. we'll start from there.

And at above poster. It is not a bug, cheat, or exploit for the simple fact that the game allowed you to do it. If A-Net did not like it they could have simply removed the quest or required 1 Automated tournament victory in order to get credit for the quest.

Yes I realize that this does not remove RR because people will still do it for the title. RR would never have become famous if A-Net had not decided to remove HB. By removing it they put people in the mind-set that they need to grind the title as fast as possible.

In short A-Net caused RR.

All this bs aside... Hero Battles being removed tomorrow, why is there still a discussion on this topic???

Because people are bored/pissed off/there are bans coming/etc.

Btw, did anyone know that Guild Wars has a newsletter? Why the hell isn't that communication medium being used? They use Twitter and Facebook but don't send emails? What the hell?

Random point, I know, but it fits into the whole "lack of communication" theme we have going on here.

I second the close of this nonsense its manipulating everyone knows this what a-net does about is there decision not ours. Let it go

Never did I say it was not an exploit/cheat. This is what I'm saying:

The situation began years ago with /roll. Lots of people were doing to to farm commander points. It got bigger, and ANet decided to step in by removing /roll from hero battles. They did not punish anyone.

Then started the red resign. It's been going on much longer than the current outbreak. ANet knew about it. They did nothing, they said nothing. They acted like it didn't exist.

Then came the monthly incident. Rawr and another guild manipulated the monthly to get into elimination. The community found and and got mad. What did ANet do? Slap on the wrist. Hey, it's rawr, they're obviously elite players that matter.

After that, people were still 'manipulating' the ladder in HB. ANet knew, didn't step in, didn't say a word, nothing.

Then, the outbreak. ANet announced that they were removing hero battles. On days where hero battles was the zaishen quest, people started doing red resign again. Every day it was the hero battles quest, more people joined in. ANet was fully aware of the situation. Again, they did nothing, they said nothing. The situation got out of control, with dozens of districts full of people participating. Yet again, they did nothing, they said nothing. It got out of hand, and people started discussing it more and more. That's when Gaile decided to imply that they were going to ban people for this.

Where is this fair warning you speak of? Please, don't answer with the EULA. All ANet had to do was tell people this was a bannable offense when it started to get popular. When a guild gets a slap on the wrist for manipulating the monthly, what message do you think ANet is sending? They don't care if rawr manipulate a monthly tournament, but they care when thousands of players manipulate a ladder that's going to be removed this week? No, two wrongs do not make a right, but that doesn't justify ANet's lack of actions.

As I said, this whole thing could have been avoided if ANet communicated with their community for once. It's as simple as that. You can't blame the community for doing this when ANet has not said a single time that this was a bannable offense....until thousands of players did it after 3 years, which is how long this manipulation has been going on.

If you want to blame something, blame it on ANet's lack of simple communication skills. I know they're busy, but it doesn't take much effort at all to let players know what they're doing is bannable before thousands of players begin doing it for weeks.

As Black Metal mentioned below, going from zero to ban is an absolutely ridiculous way to manage your customers. Please, argue against that.

I may be wrong, but I think no ban will be issued.

While Anet may be waving the ban-hammer, striking people with it is another matter.
Words are one thing, actions another.

Yes, I think that RR is cheating, and this is why I didn't participate in it.
Yes, I think cheaters will get away with their free zkeys and zcoins and title points.

It doesn't bother me much what will happen, as I said it before, the only thing that matters to me is the message.
You can cheat and be rewarded.

all right, I'll take a crack at this.

I think we all here agree that it's an exploit. But it's also a very simple game mechanic. Let's put ourselves aside, and look at the bigger picture; that being the general game population, as in the thousands that were RR'ing.

When RR started, literally thousands of people were saying 'Happy RR day!'. It was like an event, one which the vast majority of people thought was completely legit, because the mechanic was so blatantly simple. I honestly think the vast majority thought it was perfectly fine -- everyone knew it, were happy to participate, plus HB was going away and pve'ers only way of making zkeys, xth, had been taken away.

Put yourself in their shoes. Right now, they've probably forgotten about it and have no idea this discussion is going on, and would be shocked to think there might be some kind of account action taken against them. Now actually imagine this happens. These people thought this was ok, Anet had no obvious warning against doing this, now they are blindsided. Most of them have never visited guru, and after getting over the initial shock, will have a very, very low opinion of Anet, and will harbor this when asked to patronize Anet when GW2 launches.

Anet got themselves in a corner with this. As mentioned before, they either should have taken away the mechanic, or introduced a very obvious warning system. This from zero to ban in the blink of an eye is a very poor way to manage their customers. Anet has themselves to blame for not heading this off when it was manageable, and consequences could have been more in line with the seriousness of the offense.

I don't think its simply a case of having 'low resources' which is of course ANets excuse for everything, but of priorities.
Urgent matters should be dealt with first, not thrown on the back of the queue of issues that are piling up.

Actually, they're already banning RR day botters. I don't know if they'll actually ban real players, but you'd better hope to God (if you RR'd) that you didn't have a 3rd party program running. They're already perma'ing those guys.

Good point. For example, we were told twice now that we'd have better communication.........so........yea.

But in the end they're not going to ban anyone, at least not for match manipulation. Gaile can't afford to admit that they don't enforce the EULA, that's the only reason she implied that they might ban people. The fact is that Support never took action on match manipulation in HB and they're not going to start now.

It should be obvious what Gaile is trying to say here if you read between the lines.

The fact is, she implied that they would be banning for this. Judging by ANet's actions in the past, it's not hard to believe that they'd do something as ridiculous as this. I truly hope they don't take action for this, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

Still... they are banning for botting.
Permaban is the usual procedure for them.
I have yet to see or hear about anyone non-botter being banned just for RR.

Gaile's quote posted by Draikin seems to point in that direction: no action will be taken, RRers can sleep sound and safe.

Reading Black Metal's post I also reflected on another thing: If banning some people that abused RR (for example those that claim to having farmed RR for 10 hours nonstop) will reflect bad on GW2 or push the banned ones to not buy GW2, then it is really a plus. People with the mindset of exploiters kicked out of GW1, not buying GW2... I don't see how this could be better.

People will soon forget about that statement after HB has been deleted and no bans (other than accounts flagged as bots) have followed. For them to ban players it would first of all require other people reporting them, and secondly even if that happens Support is just going to dismiss everything saying that the evidence is not concrete.

Yeah, people will forget about it if no bans are handed out. However, if they do start banning people for whatever reason, there's going to be a shit storm.

From a player who wants to have a perfectly clean community (like that's ever going to happen) point of view, sure, it's a plus I suppose. From a business point of view, not so much. You're also assuming that the thousands of players who participate in this event are players who want to exploit things that actually matter. Another thing you're assuming is that all the players who participate know it's an exploit. When something like this is celebrated by the community, many players participating are not aware that they are actually exploiting something in this way.

Regardless of whether or not they truly want to exploit things, satisfied customers = money, and money = business, which is definitely something ANet wants.

you know what the problem is with anet?

everytime new stuff comes out that i read on guru/wiki, noone or very few people in my guild know about it, so i have to tell them every single time, or i could tell them where to look for the new stuff in guild wars, guess where i tell them to go? an UNOFFICIAL GW FORUM.

anet, improve your communication, for the sake of your games.

If you believe it was/is an exploit/cheat, we're not going from zero to ban are we? we're going from the EULA to player.

/edit
and I hope you (all) know. it's not the guy who did this 4 or 5 times and left that I consider the exploiter (even though s/he is). it's the people who did this HUNDREDS of times over many months. if you try to tell me they didn't know it wasn't a cheat or an exploit, i've got a bridge to sell you in San Fran, and they opossum'd you all.

/edit2
even if we can lay blame fully on anet for not taking immediate action, does that still give people the right to hide behind numbers and not be punished?

This is slightly off-topic but Cracko's post reminds me of it -

I can't believe that there still hasn't been a single announcement on the login screen or anything about TA and HB being removed. So many people in-game still have no idea this is happening. I had to tell people in GToB about it just last night...how long ago was it that Linsey said they were being removed? Two months probably?

/waves

Hello. I'm not a botter and I'm permabanned. Still with screenshots sent to support I'm permabanned. Waiting for 2 days without response to my permabanned account.

I think the fault lies in the fact they ignore parameters that can be used to identify human players. Fought real fights? Chatted in towns waiting for matches? Replied to pms? Sent PMs? (analyze pm contents and chat contents) Complained about ERR=13, etc? All those are typical non-bot behaviours. They chose to ignore all that and still hit me with the permaban hammer.

EDIT>
Gaile's response:
That single line she mentions is probable "Happy RRday" and variants/typos on it. It seems that Anet ruling is that I can't possibly be human for doing something over and over however boring it may seem to be. Still not Gaile's call. The support team has been doing an excellent job ignoring all my messages and screnshots.

If a screenshot within seconds of the ban isn't proof I was behind the keyboard I don't know what they'll take as proof.

may have already been said but solution:
2 grey teams.
kthxbaii

According to Gaile, here, your case fit into the majority of the 20 rubrics used to identify bots.

You claim that you chatted in towns, sent pms, etc. However, according to Gaile after she reviewed your chat logs, your characters "repeated" the same line of text over and over again and that's it. That, sir, counts as botting. You got caught. Sorry *shrugs*.

Lol this thread should just be left to die now really. Gaile pretty much said they won't punish anyone there also aren't any rr days coming up because HB is supposed to be removed in the Halloween build which will come out before the next rr day.

It depends on whom you are catering to.
I know that it is impossible to have a clean community, but I think that kicking out "baddies" is a benefit even from the business point of view.
This is why exploiters, cheaters, griefers are banned.

Me and many others are not going to buy or participate in a game where the community has a fat share of sociopaths (I am not referring to this particular case, it is in general).

I talked about thse who went 10 hours RR non-stop, the occasional RRer could not have known, but seriously, getting all that money in so few time should have raised a warning inside their head if they were in good faith.

When I heard about RR, the "too good to be true" sign started to blink in my mind, since I care about NOT being banned I decided to read the forum to see what was happening.

I understand that many people don't have my same cautious mindset (that's why a lot of people gets scammed, because "too good to be true" stuff doesn't raise any warning), but I also think that many people just went along because "a lot of other players is doing it".

(There's a post in this thread or the other one regarding HB about a guy who in the HB outpost said in local that RR was an exploit and the answer was "stfu", "everybody is doing it"... so I won't say that RRers are all innocent)


The emphasis is on "satisfied".
Having cheaters/botters/etc in the community is not going to satisfy the "honest" playerbase.
On the other hand, if I start botting I should be satisfied by the gold coming at me, Anet shouldn't ban a satisfied customer...
Two different tipes of satisfaction.
I wonder to which one Anet wants to cater now.


EDIT:
Sorry, I was answering Fred who wrote this

Chico, I don't know about your case, neither we know the ban is RR related, I take your word that you weren't botting, but then I'm curious to know how long have been you doing RR when you got the ban?

The majority, which consists of the rr player base duh.

It is called red resign because the person with red always has a higher rating.

What you suggest would simply change it to HAPPY HIGHER RATING RESIGN DAY.

The idea that A-Net thinks they can ban people for RR is laughably retarded. I personally have never read the EULA (omg and I checked off the accept?!) but in there I doubt they clearly define what ladder manipulation truly is. In order to go through with banning someone for ladder manipulation it needs to be properly defined and that mean including Red Resign. My guess (and I think a good one) is that they do not specifically say you can't RR in the EULA.

If you are banned challenge A-Net, technically they can't ban you for it.

If you are using a click bot or any bot for that matter you should be banned.

By that logic... go to a town and SPAM "WTS blah blah" over and over... Oh... you're a bot. /permaban
Give me a break. Your logic is wrong on so many levels.
Why not analyze/replay the paths when I walked around in town, from chest, to chest, to zaishen guy, etc. They chose not to log any of that. Any seller in Kamadan and LA is a bot using your definition of a bot.

Actually, the match manipulation thing is pretty well defined.

Just because it uses the word "ladder" doesn't mean that they don't have the right to reinterpret ladder to mean the whole rating system. It's pretty messed up.

I agree with you that they shouldn't do it, but there's no "legal" imperative for them not to. And I also agree with you that bots should be banned. (Again, sorry Chico).

It wasn't my logic, it was Gaile's. I was literally quoting Gaile. She basically said that they're not letting up on you. Sorry, bud. They think you botted.

First time. I just heard about RR not even a week ago thanks to this site.

Current status from Support.

They do permaban and don't care about any proof. A screenshot of my complete desktop within seconds of the ban isn't proof enough about me being a human being.

From a business point of view it would be better (for A-Nets pocket) to let the "baddies" in then ban them at a later date when the start botting again

Gaile asked you twice to send any screenshots you have to support as proof. Have you sent it in?

And I'm confused about what exactly you took screenshots of. Did you take screenshots of yourself playing the game? Or did you take screenshots after your ban?

If the latter, then I'm sorry, but you have no proof.

Find where they say that RR is a bannable offense for me, please.

if you take a screen shot it pic the desktop in it current condition this PC clock current windows ect so it will show quite abit