I'm pretty disappointed if this is the extent that Anet will address the overpowered issue of shadow form. There patch work to try to prevent speed clearing underworld is shoddy at best. For one it only stuck like half an hour on clear times.... and for less "motivated" players, moved the problem to fow.
Great story line, bad fix.
If a balanced library of skills and professions for the game is your goal Anet... your going to have to disappoint those people that like to use God mode in games to negate the challenge. Make perma sins less invulnerable.
My ultimate question is, does anyone have any facts that might hint if a shadow form nurf is imminent by the end of the year...? and if so please provide a link to that literature.
[Edit]
Just looking for some info, not opinions.... if some admin knows for a fact that none currently exists please close this thread.
Is this Anet's solution to shadow form?
Mireles
Zahr Dalsk
ArenaNet apparently missed this when they were testing the update, but Shadow Form is not only still viable with Dhuum in the Underworld; it's actually still the most effective way to beat him.
Just thought I'd bring this to their attention.
Just thought I'd bring this to their attention.
Joe Fierce
Csb.
Did you ever stop to think that they were only intending upon slowing down shadow form in uw and not obliterating it?
The community for this game is friggin retarded "oh this game is stupid, farming and elites are too hard, the rich get richer, I thought this was a casual game, boohoo" then someone comes along with a gimmick that simplifies everything and it's: "OMFG THIS SHIZ IS EAZ! OMFG THIS IS BORKEN FIX IT IT TOO EASY GIMMICK BAD!"
Did you ever stop to think that they were only intending upon slowing down shadow form in uw and not obliterating it?
The community for this game is friggin retarded "oh this game is stupid, farming and elites are too hard, the rich get richer, I thought this was a casual game, boohoo" then someone comes along with a gimmick that simplifies everything and it's: "OMFG THIS SHIZ IS EAZ! OMFG THIS IS BORKEN FIX IT IT TOO EASY GIMMICK BAD!"
Lishy
I agree with Joe Fierce.
None of you ever consider game design when you cry.
That said, if SF is nerfed, they need to change other things to attract the more casual player like others and yours truly. Did some of the elitists here ever stop to think not everyone has a guild willing to put together UW balanced?
"Elite" area doesn't mean to discriminate other players either.
None of you ever consider game design when you cry.
That said, if SF is nerfed, they need to change other things to attract the more casual player like others and yours truly. Did some of the elitists here ever stop to think not everyone has a guild willing to put together UW balanced?
"Elite" area doesn't mean to discriminate other players either.
Zahr Dalsk
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Kain Fz
Did some of the elitists here ever stop to think not everyone has a guild willing to put together UW balanced?
|
Lishy
It would matter, Zahr Dalsk. UW is broken in design and requires 100% co-ordination otherwise an important npc dies and you're booted.
When you have a quest that throws invincible aatxes at you, what the hell are you supposed to do with H/H? While it is possible, I would still not say it's pleasantly possible.
When you have a quest that throws invincible aatxes at you, what the hell are you supposed to do with H/H? While it is possible, I would still not say it's pleasantly possible.
Joe Fierce
I've got an idea guys, let's all cry about problems we created!!! That's right, you, yeah you, the community, you created this problem, it's not a matter of imbalance, it's a matter of the willingness and free thought to put together something more effective or alluring to other play styles, your laziness and willingness to complain about imbalance is the failing point, had you begun to come up with new ways to do uw/elites months ago then sf would have something to contend with when it comes to groups forming in in toa.
MithranArkanere
What I get when I read they responses, is that they treat Shadow Form as a niche farming skill, that works in some areas.
But it is not. It works too effectively, in too many areas and not for all professions.
As it is, if it's not maintained, it's undesirable for its huge downside that leaves you open for a one-hit kill. And if it's maintained, it's overused for the immunity it gives.
The only solution is a complete functionality change. That's all that is left.
But it is not. It works too effectively, in too many areas and not for all professions.
As it is, if it's not maintained, it's undesirable for its huge downside that leaves you open for a one-hit kill. And if it's maintained, it's overused for the immunity it gives.
The only solution is a complete functionality change. That's all that is left.
BlueNovember
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Kain Fz
It would matter, Zahr Dalsk. UW is broken in design and requires 100% co-ordination otherwise an important npc dies and you're booted.
When you have a quest that throws invincible aatxes at you, what the hell are you supposed to do with H/H? While it is possible, I would still not say it's pleasantly possible. |
The Aatxes hardly require multiple people even for a "pleasant" victory. If you use the reapers it's trivial (and slow). Still viable to prot, pull, run past.
Tenebrae
Never thought that Dhuum was going to be there to stop SF ..... maybe just to slow UWSC and yes , it did. Worth enough update ? hell no , this update is a - instead of a + imo.
Bob Slydell
And who from ANet stated that this was the combat for SF?
MithranArkanere
The only solution for Shadow Form is a functionality change.
I'll try to repeat it here and there until people start dreaming about it and notice it eventually too.
I'll try to repeat it here and there until people start dreaming about it and notice it eventually too.
Improvavel
Who cares about invincible aataxes? You tell your Mo/x or x/Mo to put Aegis up and go kill the keeper of souls and they go poof - and that aggro clause disappeared at around Halloween time (not sure if has since then returned).
But yeah, unfortunately this is another step on the wrong direction - adding more overpowered skills (even if mob ones) is just plain crap.
They need to remove all the overpowered skills, limit consumables and environmental effects (including HM inherent mob effects and mob levels) and just make all skills much less efficient.
WoH, for example, is one of the most efficient healing skills on the game, healing for 200+. Now imagine it was still one of the most efficient skills on the game, but instead only healed for 100?
And then do that for every frigging skill.
You can bet mobs wouldn't need skills like Flurry of Splinters to be an annoyance.
Every time they add a skill like Flurry of Splinters, an environmental effect or a boss like Mallyx and Dhuum, they are just moving the game into gimmickness.
But yeah, unfortunately this is another step on the wrong direction - adding more overpowered skills (even if mob ones) is just plain crap.
They need to remove all the overpowered skills, limit consumables and environmental effects (including HM inherent mob effects and mob levels) and just make all skills much less efficient.
WoH, for example, is one of the most efficient healing skills on the game, healing for 200+. Now imagine it was still one of the most efficient skills on the game, but instead only healed for 100?
And then do that for every frigging skill.
You can bet mobs wouldn't need skills like Flurry of Splinters to be an annoyance.
Every time they add a skill like Flurry of Splinters, an environmental effect or a boss like Mallyx and Dhuum, they are just moving the game into gimmickness.
Eragon Zarroc
Maybe anet's intention wasn't to prevent SF at all in UW eh? ever think of that? maybe they were just trying to make us happy with an all new uber awesome end boss? and all people can do is bitch about SF. QQ. *sigh*
MagmaRed
It was ASSUMED that Anet was working on a SF nerf with the changes to UW. They never said they were. They have said they were looking into SF and that SF was on their to-do list, but they never said what, how, or when they would nerf it. In fact, I haven't even seen them say they WOULD nerf it. I've only seen them say they were looking into it and that it was on their list of things to do. What that 'to do' is has not been said.
Wuhy
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Kain Fz
Did some of the elitists here ever stop to think not everyone has a guild willing to put together UW balanced?
"Elite" area doesn't mean to discriminate other players either. |
w00t!
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Kain Fz
That said, if SF is nerfed, they need to change other things to attract the more casual player like others and yours truly. Did some of the elitists here ever stop to think not everyone has a guild willing to put together UW balanced?
"Elite" area doesn't mean to discriminate other players either. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
(players)...treat Shadow Form as a niche farming skill, that works in some areas.
But it is not. It works too effectively, in too many areas and not for all professions. (snip) The only solution is a complete functionality change. That's all that is left. |
Life Bringing
Tbh, it seems that anet's intentions were not to NERF SF, but to slow down UWSC. Permas can still be used to clear uw, but now instead of 8 mins, it is taking around 40 with a good team. This is much more reasonable, and is actually quite a good fix. The skeles of dhuum slow down UWSC, as well as forcing players into a main team, similar to fow.
Regina Buenaobra
I just posted this on the wiki.
I would like to take the time to address a couple of questions that came up after the latest scheduled game update.
The re-design of the Underworld was intended as a way to add fun new content to the game while preventing ridiculously fast speed clears up the Underworld. (For example, the first Shadow Form group to beat Dhuum took 85 minutes rather than the 7 minutes it used to take similar groups to clear UW.)
This was not an attempt to address all of the concerns about Shadow Form Assassins. That will happen in the next major skill update, which will include big changes to Shadow Form and may also include changes to other prominent farming skills.
Work on this next update is currently in progress, but it looks like it will not happen this month. We are aiming for not only “tweaking numbers” of certain skills, we are looking into making changes that will require extensive testing and implementation time. We intend to heavily involve the Test Krewe in testing and evaluating the changes before they go live. Unfortunately it took longer than expected to get the Test Krewe off the ground.
I hope this sheds a little bit of light on what’s happening and where we are going.
I would like to take the time to address a couple of questions that came up after the latest scheduled game update.
The re-design of the Underworld was intended as a way to add fun new content to the game while preventing ridiculously fast speed clears up the Underworld. (For example, the first Shadow Form group to beat Dhuum took 85 minutes rather than the 7 minutes it used to take similar groups to clear UW.)
This was not an attempt to address all of the concerns about Shadow Form Assassins. That will happen in the next major skill update, which will include big changes to Shadow Form and may also include changes to other prominent farming skills.
Work on this next update is currently in progress, but it looks like it will not happen this month. We are aiming for not only “tweaking numbers” of certain skills, we are looking into making changes that will require extensive testing and implementation time. We intend to heavily involve the Test Krewe in testing and evaluating the changes before they go live. Unfortunately it took longer than expected to get the Test Krewe off the ground.
I hope this sheds a little bit of light on what’s happening and where we are going.
Mr. Undisclosed
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra
I just posted this on the wiki.
I would like to take the time to address a couple of questions that came up after the latest scheduled game update. The re-design of the Underworld was intended as a way to add fun new content to the game while preventing ridiculously fast speed clears up the Underworld. (For example, the first Shadow Form group to beat Dhuum took 85 minutes rather than the 7 minutes it used to take similar groups to clear UW.) This was not an attempt to address all of the concerns about Shadow Form Assassins. That will happen in the next major skill update, which will include big changes to Shadow Form and may also include changes to other prominent farming skills. Work on this next update is currently in progress, but it looks like it will not happen this month. We are aiming for not only “tweaking numbers” of certain skills, we are looking into making changes that will require extensive testing and implementation time. We intend to heavily involve the Test Krewe in testing and evaluating the changes before they go live. Unfortunately it took longer than expected to get the Test Krewe off the ground. I hope this sheds a little bit of light on what’s happening and where we are going. |
Ninja Ninja
I wish you would have brought the skill update before the new content.
I haven't even heard of a team that's not SF beating the new UW with Dhuurm added, looks like you nefed SC time for SF to 85 min and any other profession into impossible.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra
The re-design of the Underworld was intended as a way to add fun new content to the game while preventing ridiculously fast speed clears up the Underworld. (For example, the first Shadow Form group to beat Dhuum took 85 minutes rather than the 7 minutes it used to take similar groups to clear UW.)
|
AlsPals
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra
I just posted this on the wiki.
The re-design of the Underworld was intended as a way to add fun new content to the game while preventing ridiculously fast speed clears up the Underworld. (For example, the first Shadow Form group to beat Dhuum took 85 minutes rather than the 7 minutes it used to take similar groups to clear UW.) |
Tom Swift
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra
This was not an attempt to address all of the concerns about Shadow Form Assassins. That will happen in the next major skill update, which will include big changes to Shadow Form and may also include changes to other prominent farming skills.
|
in other words, "dittos" to joe
And dittos to Alspals also. If you are going to make things tough at least make the rewards worth it.
Killamus
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra
The re-design of the Underworld was intended as a way to add fun new content to the game while preventing ridiculously fast speed clears up the Underworld.
|
Quote:
| (For example, the first Shadow Form group to beat Dhuum took 85 minutes rather than the 7 minutes it used to take similar groups to clear UW.) |
Also, teams are already (After what, not even 24 hours?) down to < 40 minutes. Many of us expect even pugs to be < 30 minutes within a few weeks.
Quote:
| This was not an attempt to address all of the concerns about Shadow Form Assassins. That will happen in the next major skill update, which will include big changes to Shadow Form and may also include changes to other prominent farming skills. |
Quote:
| Work on this next update is currently in progress, but it looks like it will not happen this month. We are aiming for not only “tweaking numbers” of certain skills, we are looking into making changes that will require extensive testing and implementation time. We intend to heavily involve the Test Krewe in testing and evaluating the changes before they go live. Unfortunately it took longer than expected to get the Test Krewe off the ground. |
Joe Fierce
Farming and going for gwamm is all I have left in this game, if you take that away from me, I won't be purchasing any guild wars products in the future, and I personally, literally, know of hundreds of people who hold the same reservation as me in this aspect.
akio pwns
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Mr. Undisclosed
So...you make uw really hard for balanced then nerf SF, are you high?
|
Day Trooper
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra
...This was not an attempt to address all of the concerns about Shadow Form Assassins. That will happen in the next major skill update, which will include big changes to Shadow Form and may also include changes to other prominent farming skills...
|
Golgotha
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by akio pwns
mr troll please go to sleep. There will always be farming... shes telling us there will be new ways... a new "meta" to farming.
|
Same as it ever was.
Joe Fierce
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Golgotha
One skill goes down, one skill goes up.
Same as it ever was. |
Shayne Hawke
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra
The re-design of the Underworld was intended as a way to add fun new content to the game while preventing ridiculously fast speed clears up the Underworld. (For example, the first Shadow Form group to beat Dhuum took 85 minutes rather than the 7 minutes it used to take similar groups to clear UW.)
|
Why even bother to improve rewards (read: add new rewards, as efficiency may have dropped) when the old, disliked method of achieving those rewards still exists?!
Quote:
| This was not an attempt to address all of the concerns about Shadow Form Assassins. That will happen in the next major skill update, which will include big changes to Shadow Form and may also include changes to other prominent farming skills. |
That said, "other prominent farming skills" really makes me hope that you're also tackling 600/Smite teams as well, but I've had lots of hopes for what ANet could have done in the past.
Quote:
| Work on this next update is currently in progress, but it looks like it will not happen this month. |
Quote:
| We are aiming for not only “tweaking numbers” of certain skills, we are looking into making changes that will require extensive testing and implementation time. We intend to heavily involve the Test Krewe in testing and evaluating the changes before they go live. Unfortunately it took longer than expected to get the Test Krewe off the ground. |
Ninja Ninja
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra
This was not an attempt to address all of the concerns about Shadow Form Assassins. That will happen in the next major skill update, which will include big changes to Shadow Form and may also include changes to other prominent farming skills.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Joe Fierce
Farming and going for gwamm is all I have left in this game, if you take that away from me, I won't be purchasing any guild wars products in the future, and I personally, literally, know of hundreds of people who hold the same reservation as me in this aspect.
|
Joe Fierce
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by soul_of_misery
You obviously weren't thinking or you just plain don't care, in that time frame you created assassins are going to farm the crap out of the new content and when SF finally gets nerfed all the new content items will be worth crap.
Good to hear, if all you can do is farm with an over powered SF build then you really don't deserve any title. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Joe Fierce
No, it sounds more like they are trying to nerf farming. I could give a crap less about sf, but you touch my ele, my monk, my ranger. Then screw you! They aren't hurting anyone.
|
You are so good at reading, troll more.
Ninja Ninja
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Joe Fierce
You are so good at reading, troll more.
|
go noob more.
Golgotha
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Joe Fierce
No, it sounds more like they are trying to nerf farming. I could give a crap less about sf, but you touch my ele, my monk, my ranger. Then screw you! They aren't hurting anyone.
|
Never underestimate the ingenuity of farmers. They've nerfed many a skill and the farming kept up and found new ways, and many times they were faster than the original builds.
Joe Fierce
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by soul_of_misery
I was making my post when you made yours and still stick by it, power changes in mmorpg all the time its part of what makes it interesting and when SF is nerfed its not going to destroy the assassin profession.
go noob more. |
Let me Italic this for you so you can see the sarcasm:
Yes, because I said nerfing it will destroy the assassin profession, that's exactly what I said.
I like changes in meta, I like skill changes. But I don't like the obliteration of an entire playstyle, in other words, if they go and nerf say for example, prot spirit, something that has been universal from day one, say they nerf it, and numerous other notable skills needed by the farming types of people such as myself until farming is impossible or not worth the time, then screw it.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Golgotha
The only farming nerfs that have occurred and actually made an impact were the loot scaling and AoE scatter.
Never underestimate the ingenuity of farmers. They've nerfed many a skill and the farming kept up and found new ways, and many times they were faster than the original builds. |
I realize this, I crap out farm builds on a regular basis, but the way that she worded it makes it appear as though they are trying to phase out farming.
Mireles
Thanks Regina for clearing that up
Golgotha
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Joe Fierce
Let me Italic this for you so you can see the sarcasm:
Yes, because I said nerfing it will destroy the assassin profession, that's exactly what I said. I like changes in meta, I like skill changes. But I don't like the obliteration of an entire playstyle, in other words, if they go and nerf say for example, prot spirit, something that has been universal from day one, say they nerf it, and numerous other notable skills needed by the farming types of people such as myself until farming is impossible or not worth the time, then screw it. I realize this, I crap out farm builds on a regular basis, but the way that she worded it makes it appear as though they are trying to phase out farming. |
Ninja Ninja
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Joe Fierce
Let me Italic this for you so you can see the sarcasm:
Yes, because I said nerfing it will destroy the assassin profession, that's exactly what I said. I like changes in meta, I like skill changes. But I don't like the obliteration of an entire playstyle, in other words, if they go and nerf say for example, prot spirit, something that has been universal from day one, say they nerf it, and numerous other notable skills needed by the farming types of people such as myself until farming is impossible or not worth the time, then screw it. I realize this, I crap out farm builds on a regular basis, but the way that she worded it makes it appear as though they are trying to phase out farming. |
People want to see farming changed because doing the norm PvX build is no skill at all.
People want SF nefed not as a hate crime against the assassins but to make it even with the other professions. I'm looking for balance not an absolute.
Joe Fierce
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by soul_of_misery
Your views on nerfing are so black and white, when they nerf one thing they'll buff another. One skill does not make a profession.
People want to see farming changed because doing the norm PvX build is no skill at all. People want SF nefed not as a hate crime against the assassins but to make it even with the other professions. I'm looking for balance not an absolute. |
An appropriate nerf in my opinion would be a change to sf to where it counters one thing only, we already have plenty of anti spell enchantments, why not one that's a guaranteed anti melee? Simply make shadow form a 100% never hit by melee, cut out out the anti caster part, and just yeah, bam, there you go!
Think about it, for spells we have: spell breaker, obs flesh, sf, vow of silence.
For attacks we have: sf and mist form (kindof)
Why not just remove sf from that little "spell blocking" category.
HawkofStorms
*eyes popping*
Here is to the SF nerf being more substantial then just reducing the damage you can deal or nerfing E/A permas.
Here is to the SF nerf being more substantial then just reducing the damage you can deal or nerfing E/A permas.