Is this Anet's solution to shadow form?
TaggSilar
thankyou very much regina. all in all, i think this was a successful update. good work
Ninja Ninja
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Originally Posted by Joe Fierce
So what you're saying is, you're an ursan supporter.
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But ursan and SF have alot in common, they are both over powered skills that anet was generous enough not to nerf for far longer than they should have.
Ursan wasn't nerfed for over half a year at that time anyone reasonably active during then got all there PvE needs done then they screamed for a nerf to close the gap.
Personally I think ursan is crap because i've gotten lots more done with Sabway or Discordway and I find it easier to not have the need to find a noob group.
Joe Fierce
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Originally Posted by soul_of_misery
No I believe things like elite missions should take a lot of time and ursan made elites missions a joke.
But ursan and SF have alot in common, they are both over powered skills that anet was generous enough not to nerf for far longer than they should have. Ursan wasn't nerfed for over half a year at that time anyone reasonably active during then got all there PvE needs done then they screamed for a nerf to close the gap. Personally I think ursan is crap because i've gotten lots more done with Sabway or Discordway and I find it easier to not have the need to find a noob group. |
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Originally Posted by Joe Fierce
An appropriate nerf in my opinion would be a change to sf to where it counters one thing only, we already have plenty of anti spell enchantments, why not one that's a guaranteed anti melee? Simply make shadow form a 100% never hit by melee, cut out out the anti caster part, and just yeah, bam, there you go!
Think about it, for spells we have: spell breaker, obs flesh, sf, vow of silence. For attacks we have: sf and mist form (kindof) Why not just remove sf from that little "spell blocking" category. |
Ninja Ninja
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Originally Posted by Joe Fierce
An appropriate nerf in my opinion would be a change to sf to where it counters one thing only, we already have plenty of anti spell enchantments, why not one that's a guaranteed anti melee? Simply make shadow form a 100% never hit by melee, cut out out the anti caster part, and just yeah, bam, there you go!
Think about it, for spells we have: spell breaker, obs flesh, sf, vow of silence. For attacks we have: sf and mist form (kindof) Why not just remove sf from that little "spell blocking" category. |
Symeon
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Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra
I just posted this on the wiki.
I would like to take the time to address a couple of questions that came up after the latest scheduled game update. The re-design of the Underworld was intended as a way to add fun new content to the game while preventing ridiculously fast speed clears up the Underworld. (For example, the first Shadow Form group to beat Dhuum took 85 minutes rather than the 7 minutes it used to take similar groups to clear UW.) This was not an attempt to address all of the concerns about Shadow Form Assassins. That will happen in the next major skill update, which will include big changes to Shadow Form and may also include changes to other prominent farming skills. Work on this next update is currently in progress, but it looks like it will not happen this month. We are aiming for not only “tweaking numbers” of certain skills, we are looking into making changes that will require extensive testing and implementation time. We intend to heavily involve the Test Krewe in testing and evaluating the changes before they go live. Unfortunately it took longer than expected to get the Test Krewe off the ground. I hope this sheds a little bit of light on what’s happening and where we are going. |
Joe Fierce
Touch of dhuum now considered a touch skill BAM!
Saw that one coming.
Saw that one coming.
draxynnic
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Originally Posted by Mr. Undisclosed
So...you make uw really hard for balanced then nerf SF, are you high?
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Originally Posted by Joe Fierce
An appropriate nerf in my opinion would be a change to sf to where it counters one thing only, we already have plenty of anti spell enchantments, why not one that's a guaranteed anti melee? Simply make shadow form a 100% never hit by melee, cut out out the anti caster part, and just yeah, bam, there you go!
Think about it, for spells we have: spell breaker, obs flesh, sf, vow of silence. For attacks we have: sf and mist form (kindof) Why not just remove sf from that little "spell blocking" category. |
Ninja Ninja
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Originally Posted by draxynnic
Unless, can we hope, those changes make some of the weaker professions better off so you don't need SF?
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leehai1980
No SF could you increase Drop rate also. Why fast speed clear because we 1 something but the drop rate low so we have to go for Fast speed clear to get something faster. If you gonna nerf the SF and alot of skill , please increase drop rate not only we can have something fast but also having fun in the place
Welthas
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Originally Posted by leehai1980
No SF could you increase Drop rate also. Why fast speed clear because we 1 something but the drop rate low so we have to go for Fast speed clear to get something faster. If you gonna nerf the SF and alot of skill , please increase drop rate not only we can have something fast but also having fun in the place
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P.S Anet...
Why don't you hold off on the "nerf" and learn to ban the botters?
reaper with no name
Thank you, Regina, for the news. This makes me happy, and gives me hope for the game's future.
draxynnic
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Originally Posted by soul_of_misery
Yeah but gl waiting 1-2 months for it.
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UnChosen
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Originally Posted by leehai1980
No SF could you increase Drop rate also. Why fast speed clear because we 1 something but the drop rate low so we have to go for Fast speed clear to get something faster. If you gonna nerf the SF and alot of skill , please increase drop rate not only we can have something fast but also having fun in the place
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Originally Posted by Mr. Undisclosed
So...you make uw really hard for balanced then nerf SF, are you high?
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Originally Posted by draxynnic
Unless, can we hope, those changes make some of the weaker professions better off so you don't need SF?
That's be one way to do it. It would make sense, too - like Mist Form, you're insubstantial, but magic should still be able to get you. |
Lord Sojar
Has it occured to any of you in opposition to Shadow Form that it may, in fact, have been changed to facilitate those that are still interested in GW1? I mean, without SF the way it is now, what percentage of current players would still be playing? I would guess low 30%s... just a guess, but it seems viable.
Guild Wars 1 has been on a steady decline for a long time now, and that isn't going to change. My guess is that the Test Krewe (of which I am a part of, thank god for the understanding of game mechanics and marketing in one handy dandy person or two!) will be able to evaluate SF from a gaming perspective, and that many of will be able to weigh the pros and cons of the skill, both from a general gameplay balance aspect (as much as can be achieved with the current madness that is to be called balance in GW1) and from a marketing/longevity of the series standpoint.
Guild Wars 1 has been on a steady decline for a long time now, and that isn't going to change. My guess is that the Test Krewe (of which I am a part of, thank god for the understanding of game mechanics and marketing in one handy dandy person or two!) will be able to evaluate SF from a gaming perspective, and that many of will be able to weigh the pros and cons of the skill, both from a general gameplay balance aspect (as much as can be achieved with the current madness that is to be called balance in GW1) and from a marketing/longevity of the series standpoint.
FoxBat
Farming *can't* be killed. There's thousands of skills in the game, there's so many options, for example the best raptor farmer W/N, his skills aren't even on the radar for most other farms. I don't think they *want* to kill farming even, they installed Nick after all.
What they might be targeting are the common "invinci-tank" builds that clear elite areas and dungeons quickly with small parties. This would be shadow form, obsidian flesh, and spirit bond. Although even if you kill those big 3, I have to wonder what else might pop up, like 55ish builds or shield of absorption, or even spirit spammers splitting up and soloing parts of UW.
What they might be targeting are the common "invinci-tank" builds that clear elite areas and dungeons quickly with small parties. This would be shadow form, obsidian flesh, and spirit bond. Although even if you kill those big 3, I have to wonder what else might pop up, like 55ish builds or shield of absorption, or even spirit spammers splitting up and soloing parts of UW.
The build master
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Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra
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QueenofDeath
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| This was not an attempt to address all of the concerns about Shadow Form Assassins. That will happen in the next major skill update, which will include big changes to Shadow Form |
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I mean, without SF the way it is now, what percentage of current players would still be playing? I would guess low 30%s... just a guess, but it seems viable. |
Zahr Dalsk
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Originally Posted by Mireles
Is this Anet's solution to shadow form?
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Mr. Undisclosed
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Originally Posted by akio pwns
mr troll please go to sleep. There will always be farming... shes telling us there will be new ways... a new "meta" to farming.
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But I don't think you understood my post.
I don't give a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO about farming, I want to do uw balanced and its nigh impossible in a reasonable time. Then she says not only will it be hard to do balanced you won't be able to use sf to do it, where does that leave us? GG.
Abedeus
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Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief
Has it occured to any of you in opposition to Shadow Form that it may, in fact, have been changed to facilitate those that are still interested in GW1? I mean, without SF the way it is now, what percentage of current players would still be playing? I would guess low 30%s... just a guess, but it seems viable.
Guild Wars 1 has been on a steady decline for a long time now, and that isn't going to change. My guess is that the Test Krewe (of which I am a part of, thank god for the understanding of game mechanics and marketing in one handy dandy person or two!) will be able to evaluate SF from a gaming perspective, and that many of will be able to weigh the pros and cons of the skill, both from a general gameplay balance aspect (as much as can be achieved with the current madness that is to be called balance in GW1) and from a marketing/longevity of the series standpoint. |
Tramp
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Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra
For example, the first Shadow Form group to beat Dhuum took 85 minutes rather than the 7 minutes it used to take similar groups to clear UW.
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Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra
the next major skill update, which will include big changes to Shadow Form and may also include changes to other prominent farming skills.
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Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra
we are looking into making changes that will require extensive testing and implementation time. We intend to heavily involve the Test Krewe in testing and evaluating the changes before they go live.
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Life Bringing
So, since the update to touch of dhuum AND dhuum's AI, he has become ridiculous, even for sf sins. He can no longer be bodyblocked or glitched against a wall, and the DP leads to being spiked down because of lower health. I dont see how a regular team could do this tbh.
pumpkin pie
what is this obsession to make people play the game longer than is necessary? Isn't it ArenaNet's "ideal" that people should be able to enjoy the game and not waste an enormous amount of time farming?
Lord Sojar
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Originally Posted by QueenofDeath
What good do solo players do for the community or game anyway? You can play a solo game offline ala Dragon Age or Titans Quest or Diablo 2 all solo players do is add lag to the game and lower value of things to the point for those that group or would rather group than solo can't get any value on things they finally do get. So, who cares if they quit I don't. I would rather have a handful of community multiplayers than a world of anti socialites.
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However, looking at it from an in game economic standpoint, they do benefit the greater good. They farm for a lot of materials, which floods the market with goods (weapons, etc) and supplies (ecto). While this does inflate prices to some degree, Guild Wars is not exactly a shining example of real economics at work. Thus, it takes a long period of time for the economy of GW to go into a period of inflationary flux, and so... for a time, ecto may be available in large quantity for specific high end purchases. This benefits you, them, and the sellers of high-end/in demand items.
In addition, you are still attempting to look at it from a gamer's perspective, instead of that of a company trying to keep whatever interest they can into a game that is losing traction. ANET doesn't have to keep players interested in the game based on their business model, but at the same moment, they do. It all equates to keeping players that enjoy the game at least motivated enough to comeback every so often, which lines them up for a Guild Wars 2 purchase and future titles within said franchise.
This really isn't too difficult to understand when you look at it from that concept and model.
upier
I approve!
I am bored and need to be entertained and the QQ from the people that are not good enough to complete the hardest content with hench will be sufficient.
Good times ahead!
I am bored and need to be entertained and the QQ from the people that are not good enough to complete the hardest content with hench will be sufficient.
Good times ahead!
Lord Sojar
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Originally Posted by upier
I approve!
I am bored and need to be entertained and the QQ from the people that are not good enough to complete the hardest content with hench will be sufficient. Good times ahead! |
- Drinking
- Smashing your head against a wall until you bleed
- Watching paint dry/grass grow
- Doing something else not listed here and not related to posting useless crap in a useless crap QQ thread that seems to endlessly repeat itself and will probably spell the end of a few mods sanity.
- Obsessed with a game that is pretty far past the point of true recovery
- Naturally enjoy bitching/QQing/complaining about anything they can
- Don't understand any other side to an issue except what their narrow minds can create
- Don't care about what other people think, but believe that their opinion is above that and it doesn't matter.
- Believe (in a naive fashion I might add) that a game mechanic is going to change just because they and other forum users believe that it needs to be changed (when the fact is, a very small percentage of the GW community actually bother with forums such as GWG)
Note, you can probably combine the demographics above in the case of many people!
upier
Why must there ALWAYS be one that does not find fun in taking candy from a baby with the sole intent of watching it cry?
Lord Sojar
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Originally Posted by upier
Why must there ALWAYS be one that does not find fun in taking candy from a baby with the sole intent of watching it cry?
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This wasn't ANET's solution to "fixing" Shadow Form, so you guys can stop making these absolutely mundane, nearsighted, and naive threads over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.
Joe Fierce
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Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief
Don't get me wrong, I never suggested that they really benefit the community in anyway, shape, or form.
However, looking at it from an in game economic standpoint, they do benefit the greater good. They farm for a lot of materials, which floods the market with goods (weapons, etc) and supplies (ecto). While this does inflate prices to some degree, Guild Wars is not exactly a shining example of real economics at work. Thus, it takes a long period of time for the economy of GW to go into a period of inflationary flux, and so... for a time, ecto may be available in large quantity for specific high end purchases. This benefits you, them, and the sellers of high-end/in demand items. In addition, you are still attempting to look at it from a gamer's perspective, instead of that of a company trying to keep whatever interest they can into a game that is losing traction. ANET doesn't have to keep players interested in the game based on their business model, but at the same moment, they do. It all equates to keeping players that enjoy the game at least motivated enough to comeback every so often, which lines them up for a Guild Wars 2 purchase and future titles within said franchise. This really isn't too difficult to understand when you look at it from that concept and model. |
tw1tchdp
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Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief
Has it occured to any of you in opposition to Shadow Form that it may, in fact, have been changed to facilitate those that are still interested in GW1? I mean, without SF the way it is now, what percentage of current players would still be playing? I would guess low 30%s... just a guess, but it seems viable.
Guild Wars 1 has been on a steady decline for a long time now, and that isn't going to change. My guess is that the Test Krewe (of which I am a part of, thank god for the understanding of game mechanics and marketing in one handy dandy person or two!) will be able to evaluate SF from a gaming perspective, and that many of will be able to weigh the pros and cons of the skill, both from a general gameplay balance aspect (as much as can be achieved with the current madness that is to be called balance in GW1) and from a marketing/longevity of the series standpoint. |
YEAH. Totally ASSASSIN WARS is such a rad game broski. Anet, f'n ridiculous. You attempt to "slow down UWSC"s and in the process forget that people who enjoy playing other classes would like to do the area as well. I dont understand, Regina brings up the UWSC 7 minutes, to 85 minutes thing. Get REAL. Still your going to be completing it twice as fast as most balanced groups, not to mention those new fairy items that are brought into the game are going to be hearded by the people who originally went in for ectos/eblades are now going to come out with an even bigger reward for the extra time. so in reality SF lamers just slapped you all in the face. ANet = terrible.
Bryant Again
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Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra
I just posted this on the wiki.
I would like to take the time to address a couple of questions that came up after the latest scheduled game update. The re-design of the Underworld was intended as a way to add fun new content to the game while preventing ridiculously fast speed clears up the Underworld. (For example, the first Shadow Form group to beat Dhuum took 85 minutes rather than the 7 minutes it used to take similar groups to clear UW.) This was not an attempt to address all of the concerns about Shadow Form Assassins. That will happen in the next major skill update, which will include big changes to Shadow Form and may also include changes to other prominent farming skills. Work on this next update is currently in progress, but it looks like it will not happen this month. We are aiming for not only “tweaking numbers” of certain skills, we are looking into making changes that will require extensive testing and implementation time. We intend to heavily involve the Test Krewe in testing and evaluating the changes before they go live. Unfortunately it took longer than expected to get the Test Krewe off the ground. I hope this sheds a little bit of light on what’s happening and where we are going. |
It's good to see farming being looked at as a whole and not nit-picking on popular builds, too.
The Drunkard
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Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief
Has it occured to any of you in opposition to Shadow Form that it may, in fact, have been changed to facilitate those that are still interested in GW1? I mean, without SF the way it is now, what percentage of current players would still be playing? I would guess low 30%s... just a guess, but it seems viable.
Guild Wars 1 has been on a steady decline for a long time now, and that isn't going to change. My guess is that the Test Krewe (of which I am a part of, thank god for the understanding of game mechanics and marketing in one handy dandy person or two!) will be able to evaluate SF from a gaming perspective, and that many of will be able to weigh the pros and cons of the skill, both from a general gameplay balance aspect (as much as can be achieved with the current madness that is to be called balance in GW1) and from a marketing/longevity of the series standpoint. |
I fail to see why removing the playerbase devoted to SF farming is bad for the game- after a few months of getting all the money they could ever want they are going to quit because of lack of content. The reason most people use SF nowadays (including me) in order to farm for cash to fill out their HoM so they are ready for GW2. People who still want to farm after a nerf to SF will jump on a 600/smite or OB (which should also be looked at) and still make lots of money.
Anet should focus on removing invincibility builds from the game, AND find the reason why people jump to invincibility in an area instead of tank n' spank. Then they should spend their time trying to fix the problem with the resources they have (aka adjust levels and skills on monsters). Then again, no game wants to spend their time fixing all of the inherent problems based on the community’s whim.
My expectations with anet are pretty low right now compared to what they've done in the past, so I really don't care anymore on how they want to drag out their game.
Ninja Ninja
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Originally Posted by tw1tchdp
YEAH. Totally ASSASSIN WARS is such a rad game broski. Anet, f'n ridiculous. You attempt to "slow down UWSC"s and in the process forget that people who enjoy playing other classes would like to do the area as well. I dont understand, Regina brings up the UWSC 7 minutes, to 85 minutes thing. Get REAL. Still your going to be completing it twice as fast as most balanced groups, not to mention those new fairy items that are brought into the game are going to be hearded by the people who originally went in for ectos/eblades are now going to come out with an even bigger reward for the extra time. so in reality SF lamers just slapped you all in the face. ANet = terrible.
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Fril Estelin
I approve of Dr. House's intervention! (j/k: moving company, or takign a break from Guru, made you more interesting :P)
Tenebrae
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Originally Posted by pumpkin pie
what is this obsession to make people play the game longer than is necessary? Isn't it ArenaNet's "ideal" that people should be able to enjoy the game and not waste an enormous amount of time farming?
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You are blind , "farming" it self is not the problem , never was. Its balance itself and broken skills that make the word "challenge" or "hard" turn into "SC" and "joke". If you like so much farming , you picked the wrong game , Lineage2 exists and korean games , hf mate , cheers .
pumpkin pie
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Originally Posted by Tenebrae
I guess that its coming from the same source of ppl to play the game and content in the less time possible using the high amount of broken mechanics they can.
You are blind , "farming" it self is not the problem , never was. Its balance itself and broken skills that make the word "challenge" or "hard" turn into "SC" and "joke". If you like so much farming , you picked the wrong game , Lineage2 exists and korean games , hf mate , cheers . |
for someone who play like me, SF is of the least concern. only farmers will care what other farmers can do in how long a time. Weather SF is nerf or taken out of the game has little concern to me. Or how other people are getting their game cash and weapons from, does not concern me, thats why I ask why it is such a concern to the QQ players.
Frankly, I couldn't care less how fast some stranger can clear what area. I much rather ArenaNet take care of the "cheat" thats been happening. like using texmod for cartography, autoclicker for drunkard and sync ....
FYI: I have yet to see an arm brace
rb.widow
Funny isnt it, Anet nerfed UB because it was too powerful, clearing Elite areas fast etc wasnt supposed to happen, along comes Perma Sin and Anet ignores it, there fix was to make the Elite area dam near impossible for normal players,
So why not revert UB to its old form, then everyone else in the community can run the HM with ease just like the permas do.
I can bet that in GW2, there will be no builds like this, all builds that can make no damage taken will be nerfed in a heartbeat.
So why not revert UB to its old form, then everyone else in the community can run the HM with ease just like the permas do.
I can bet that in GW2, there will be no builds like this, all builds that can make no damage taken will be nerfed in a heartbeat.
Tenebrae
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Originally Posted by pumpkin pie
see,, thats where you are wrong, pumpkin pie doesn't farm. Ask me how many time I have cleared FoW UW, or how many time i have kill mallyx.
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Originally Posted by pumpkin pie
for someone who play like me, SF is of the least concern. only farmers will care what other farmers can do in how long a time. Weather SF is nerf or taken out of the game has little concern to me. Or how other people are getting their game cash and weapons from, does not concern me, thats why I ask why it is such a concern to the QQ players.
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Its a matter of balance , is not like it affects me or not , not like my life is at risk or whatever , its simple perspective. Please , dont be mistaken , you speak like all ppl that agrees with a SF nerf is a cryer and thats not true.
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Originally Posted by pumpkin pie
Frankly, I couldn't care less how fast some stranger can clear what area. I much rather ArenaNet take care of the "cheat" thats been happening. like using texmod for cartography, autoclicker for drunkard and sync ....
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Anyway , check reginas post , enough said
Zebideedee
To OP, this is not an opinion, this is cold hard fact!
The SF abusers who think they are all that, I've played with (oh dear) a few on their alternate chatacters who have tormented shields & VS etc. and they have totally, totally sucked. I'm talking about easy missions/quests, they got it into their heads that they are Chuck Norris or something. But thats probably A-Net's fault for not letting them type /godmode into console with every profession?
I'd love it if A-Net removed/changed the game so that SF/55'ing etc wasn't possible, the QQ threads would be hilarious
The SF abusers who think they are all that, I've played with (oh dear) a few on their alternate chatacters who have tormented shields & VS etc. and they have totally, totally sucked. I'm talking about easy missions/quests, they got it into their heads that they are Chuck Norris or something. But thats probably A-Net's fault for not letting them type /godmode into console with every profession?
I'd love it if A-Net removed/changed the game so that SF/55'ing etc wasn't possible, the QQ threads would be hilarious
DragonRogue
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Originally Posted by rb.widow
Funny isnt it, Anet nerfed UB because it was too powerful, clearing Elite areas fast etc wasnt supposed to happen, along comes Perma Sin and Anet ignores it, there fix was to make the Elite area dam near impossible for normal players,
So why not revert UB to its old form, then everyone else in the community can run the HM with ease just like the permas do. I can bet that in GW2, there will be no builds like this, all builds that can make no damage taken will be nerfed in a heartbeat. |
Our guild tried UW with the balanced team set up that we have used in UW to clear it for years now and failed epically. We will be trying again all weekend to do it tho, because we like the new challenge. However, we dont care that people use SF to clear anything, nor did we care when it was Ursan, or 600. What is starting to grate on my nerves is the constant need to create a new profession, run it thru all the games, just so we can play this game. First it was the loss of our Elem/sin farmers nerfed to uselessness because of damage reduction in SF, so we created perma sins just to have the areas in the game nerfed, such as budger (god forbid we make 200k off holiday items for a weekend intsead of ectos and obby blades 24/7/365), then it was to create monks so we could farm with them instead. Now i need a friggin paragon to do UW? What the hell is it gonna be next month Anet? Instead of fixing the skills to balance out things, you fix the areas so gimicky builds and specific classes are the only ones who can do it. Its gotten to the point now where i need all 10 classes just to play this game and its annoying as hell. At least with Ursan, if i wanted to play in an area my ranger wasnt wanted, id still get to play. Which reminds me, why dont you buff up my Incendiary Arrows so i can take out half a party in two hits too. Then maybe my ranger could get a group around this game.