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Originally Posted by pumpkin pie
If you put it that way, all skills are godmode, cos they are all easy to us.
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Shadow Form meets the end
Bryant Again
FyrFytr998
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Originally Posted by Bryant Again
I could care less about them, and so should everyone else, including you. They're not the point here. The point is the game.
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I'll even do you one better. I am gonna follow your advice and not care anymore either. No matter how I see my position or yours. Ultimately, ANET is going to impose their position. Obviously high end PvE content being pwnt by smart build makers offends them as game designers. And all these farming builds past and present show the lack of play testing on their part.
All this typing is taking away from my fun time. Nerf away ANET. It'll be a matter of days before the next big thing comes along and the QQer's are back in your ear calling for a fresh set of nerfs "for the integrity of the game" so they can maintain their status as the wealthiest players in their pretend world.
Bryant Again
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Originally Posted by FyrFytr998
You're right. It should be about the game. Only thing is that ANET has made so many missteps, that for a lot of players it stopped being about the game a long time ago. It became a place where a players net worth in ecto outweighs their play ability.
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The question is how much does ANet have to gain in nerfing multiple farming builds? How much to lose? A question with no clear-cut answer.
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Originally Posted by FyrFytr998
...Obviously high end PvE content being pwnt by smart build makers offends them as game designers...
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In regards to "not enough play-testing", some things take a long, long time to come to form.
pumpkin pie
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Originally Posted by Bryant Again
Is your playstyle an exception, then?
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Bryant Again
I'm more pointing out that playstyles vary. You yourself have said you aren't able to use an SF build too well. That doesn't point to the build being faulty, more that you may have troubles with it.
Bristlebane
Wouldn't it be fun if Anet made some dungeon areas with mostly Perma-shadows in it? Of course a few extra counters as you as a player know how to counter it before you enter. So counter is by an unstrippable Shadow Form monster skill.
How do you think the poor Raptors feels when you trash their young and kill their mother :P
How do you think the poor Raptors feels when you trash their young and kill their mother :P
manitoba1073
Lmao nice to see in 13 months since I left GW nothings changed here.
They have far more to lose nerfing multiple farming builds then not nerfing them.
Yes Because we all know how its required to take 8 ppl into FoW or UW
(sarcasm) incase you didnt get that. Yes that one build is so smashing the area that they have to skip almost 90% of it to do it.
And such for "normal" team compositions, Truelly funny that you say that. Because the truth is that there is no "normal" team composition.
While the Q_Q continues here I'm off again enjoying another game.
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Originally Posted by Bryant Again
At least for a few.
The question is how much does ANet have to gain in nerfing multiple farming builds? How much to lose? A question with no clear-cut answer.. |
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Originally Posted by Bryant Again
While I do consider it smart, one build should not be able to defeat an area designed for eight. One skill bar should not be able to defeat multiple skill bars. Nor should the "normal" team composition be nearly entirely composed of one specific build.
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(sarcasm) incase you didnt get that. Yes that one build is so smashing the area that they have to skip almost 90% of it to do it.
And such for "normal" team compositions, Truelly funny that you say that. Because the truth is that there is no "normal" team composition.
While the Q_Q continues here I'm off again enjoying another game.
Bryant Again
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Originally Posted by manitoba1073
They have far more to lose nerfing multiple farming builds then not nerfing them.
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In this case I do feel that they have something to lose in attempting to nerf farming, but also much to gain. There are quite a few people who only appreciate GW for the "soloing", which is like going to a rock concert to admire people's shoes.
In regards to what can be gained, anything that puts GW on more of a set track will inspire and encourage quite a few of the players that ANet have dismayed. This isn't to say putting more of a stomp on farming will bring them back, rather that it's the first step of several.
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Originally Posted by manitoba1073
Yes that one build is so smashing the area that they have to skip almost 90% of it to do it.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by manitoba1073
And such for "normal" team compositions, Truelly funny that you say that. Because the truth is that there is no "normal" team composition.
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manitoba1073
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Originally Posted by Bryant Again
Great job. Unfortunately it's usually implied that when a person makes a statement that they should also explain such a stance.
In this case I do feel that they have something to lose in attempting to nerf farming, but also much to gain. There are quite a few people who only appreciate GW for the "soloing", which is like going to a rock concert to admire people's shoes. In regards to what can be gained, anything that puts GW on more of a set track will inspire and encourage quite a few of the players that ANet have dismayed. This isn't to say putting more of a stomp on farming will bring them back, rather that it's the first step of several.. |
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Originally Posted by Bryant Again
If one build, one skill bar, one whole character, is able to take on several skill bars, builds, characters, then something in the game design is incredibly faulty. Simply put..
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Originally Posted by Bryant Again
The "norm" is defined as the "average", and when the norm is not a wide variety of characters and builds for an area and instead, say, one build, then again something in the game design is incredibly faulty - especially considering the numerous amounts of classes within GW.
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It was the so called "upper" community that required players to run certain sets of builds, not forced on by Anet at all, but by the community itself. Even though most of any kind of builds would work.
Tenebrae
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Originally Posted by manitoba1073
Yes because some people just refuse to add 1 little itty skill on there own bars to counter said build, said skill bar. Perfect example - SF was used extensively in PvP, Simple answer was take a dischant signet. WoW so simple even a cave man could have done, yet what was the reply from the so called community, Why should they have to change there skill bars and instead ran whinning to Mommy Anet to change. Simple put you know not as much as you try to claim you do.
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- Why 98% of elite skills have bloody lots of counters and SF combo has so so SO few ? Why should 1 skill combo OVERCOME 98% of GW skills ?.
No one is QQing here about not knowing to counter it dude.
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Originally Posted by manitoba1073
The average is what any one happens to throw on the skill bar whenever they feel like. The game was how you wanted to play it whether it was solo play or group play or what ever build they wanted to have.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by manitoba1073
It was the so called "upper" community that required players to run certain sets of builds, not forced on by Anet at all, but by the community itself. Even though most of any kind of builds would work.
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PS: Still can smell fear in this thread .
Gun Pierson
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Originally Posted by Bryant Again
In this case I do feel that they have something to lose in attempting to nerf farming, but also much to gain. There are quite a few people who only appreciate GW for the "soloing", which is like going to a rock concert to admire people's shoes. The "norm" is defined as the "average", and when the norm is not a wide variety of characters and builds for an area and instead, say, one build, then again something in the game design is incredibly faulty - especially considering the numerous amounts of classes within GW. |
There are a couple of areas left where the true powercreep rules. Playing an area for 4 hours to receive like 10k if you're lucky is just not fun. Because most of the veterans already played the game several times and did the elite stuff playing 'balanced' anyway.
Why do people use Shadow Form? Because it's the most efficient way of farming some stuff in a game where rewards suck. A few elite areas still drop some worthy stuff but they're guarded by the powercreep.
Not all skills can be equally effective, it's the nature of the beast, unless you give everybody one skill that does 50 damage and that's it. But that's not GW. GW is a game with a lot of different types of skills like MTG.
The gods use godly creeps in their area, so the tools to beat them should have 'godly' qualities too if balanced can't counter them. The average skilled player can't beat UW or DoA balanced and they don't know how to use shadow form. And in a way that's what an elite area stands for. However, a group of players can farm it, but that group is certainly not casual. So we're left with power traders and 'pro' farmers who have an intrest in the subject.
Ofourse both the powertraders/rich people in the game and Anet are not shun for a nerf because the rich want to secure their gold and Anet wants to drag on the game until GW2 so it takes more grind to get some of the silly titles.
Fix rewards,
Fix powercreep,
Fix silly titles,
After that they might actually have a point to nerf shadow form.
So yeah a skill with godmode characteristics shouldn't be in the game, but neither should be godlike creeps/bosses and crappy rewards for the time invested. RPG's have always been about character progression and cool stuff and GW PvE is no different. Hell, even PvP players want the cool stuff so they can die in style.
Bryant Again
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Originally Posted by manitoba1073
Unfortuantely those are fewer than the ones Anet dismayed by the changes they have made in regards to such things.
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...wait.
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Originally Posted by manitoba1073
Yes because some people just refuse to add 1 little itty skill on there own bars to counter said build, said skill bar. Perfect example - SF was used extensively in PvP, Simple answer was take a dischant signet. WoW so simple even a cave man could have done, yet what was the reply from the so called community, Why should they have to change there skill bars and instead ran whinning to Mommy Anet to change. Simple put you know not as much as you try to claim you do.
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I think what you're attempting to say is that instead of nerfing a skill, we should change the enemy's skillbars? Well that's the same thing as a nerf in PvE land, but such a change only applies to a couple builds.
ANet would have to go and actually adjust the AI accordingly in a much more global fashion and have it react in a certain manner to certain builds (i.e. if the enemy encounters an SF sin, don't throw everything they got at it) for any sort of impact.
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Originally Posted by manitoba1073
The average is what any one happens to throw on the skill bar whenever they feel like. The game was how you wanted to play it whether it was solo play or group play or what ever build they wanted to have.
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Bristlebane
New Shadow Form skill leaked out on the net:
Shadow Form
Elite Enchantment Spell. (5...18...21 seconds.) 50...90% chance of hostile spells targeting you fail, and 90...50% chance of attacks against you miss. (50% failure chance with Critical strikes 9 or less.)
(Ok I was trolling, but wouldn't it be a nice skill change?)
Shadow Form
Elite Enchantment Spell. (5...18...21 seconds.) 50...90% chance of hostile spells targeting you fail, and 90...50% chance of attacks against you miss. (50% failure chance with Critical strikes 9 or less.)
(Ok I was trolling, but wouldn't it be a nice skill change?)
FyrFytr998
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Originally Posted by Tenebrae
Yeah more of that "if you dont like it dont use it" and "how does someone using SF affect YOUR game play" BS pointless arguments to defend SF.
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So one last time. To the players that argue they are personally affected by SF abuse. Please explain how. Knowing that you personally have the ability to play GW as you see fit regardless of what some other person is doing. The only way to render this line of questioning pointless is to provide an answer. And jumping on Bryant's bandwagon doesn't answer the "personal" aspect of my question either. I have a pretty good idea that the only counterpoint that could be made for personal affectation is that one's leet status has been impugned.
Tenebrae
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Originally Posted by FyrFytr998
Yet, not one person who is Anti-SF and used the personally affected argument has come up with a valid reason as to how they are affected personally by someone else using SF for SC's and farming.
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32493465 Threads about SF and SCs and you still didnt get that THAT is not the point.
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Originally Posted by FyrFytr998
Since they have no answer they just dismiss the question all together. No arguing fact right there. But you say the above is pointless and BS without even saying why it is so. Ultimately this type of back and forth arguing is more personal than factual.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by FyrFytr998
So one last time. To the players that argue they are personally affected by SF abuse. Please explain how. Knowing that you personally have the ability to play GW regardless of what some other person is doing. The only way to render this line of questioning pointless is to provide an answer. And jumping on Bryant's bandwagon doesn't answer the "personal" aspect of my question either. I have a pretty good idea that the only counterpoint that could be made for personal affectation is that one's leet status has been impugned.
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jshrimp3
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Originally Posted by Tenebrae
Wrong question.
32493465 Threads about SF and SCs and you still didnt get that THAT is not the point. Thats because smart ppl gets tired of repeating and answering the same BS question / lame arguments to defend SF or SCs again and again and again. Then some more absurd arguments came up, like "i need SF to make my obsidian armor" and stuff like that ..... honesly , do you understand now why some of us get tired ? For the 32493466th time , that has nothing to do with the SF and or SC problem and im tired of saying same stuff so many times. Another thing that has nothing to do with that is how many titles do i have , how many time ive spent in GW or how much ingame money i have ; dont follow that line of thoughts , it will only lead to insults and "personal" aspects i think you are trying to avoid . |
Again, I don't use SF. The use of SF has not affected me in any way. I'm finding PUGs to do missions perfectly fine. Not as much as there used to be, sure, but that's more to do with a stale game, and less to do with SF directly. I don't hoard ectos like a fat kid who thinks the world is going to run out of cake, so the fact that ecto prices may be cheaper doesn't affect me either.
Really the only legitimate effect SF has on GW is that ToA is busy and ectos aren't all that expensive. If you want to go questing and do missions, you can find PUGs or join a PvE guild. Is it as easy to do as it was 3 years ago? Of course not. But SF isn't to blame for that, the simple fact of the matter is that most people have played through this shit over and over again and don't really have any interest in going through Borlis Pass.
Bobby2
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Originally Posted by Tenebrae
For the 32493466th time , that has nothing to do with the SF and or SC problem and im tired of saying same stuff so many times. Another thing that has nothing to do with that is how many titles do i have , how many time ive spent in GW or how much ingame money i have ; dont follow that line of thoughts , it will only lead to insults and "personal" aspects i think you are trying to avoid .
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"SF does not affect me. I QQ for the sake of QQing."
SlipknotOFA
Thank god this makes me happy hopefully they nerf it until its useless
EPO Bot
I swear, the moment SF is killed of i will make an Assassin.
Bristlebane
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Originally Posted by SlipknotOFA
Thank god this makes me happy hopefully they nerf it until its useless
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UnChosen
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gun Pierson
People can play 90% of the game's areas using balanced or whatever composition of classes in a team as long as the team finds the sweet spot between offense and defense.
There are a couple of areas left where the true powercreep rules. Playing an area for 4 hours to receive like 10k if you're lucky is just not fun. Because most of the veterans already played the game several times and did the elite stuff playing 'balanced' anyway. Why do people use Shadow Form? Because it's the most efficient way of farming some stuff in a game where rewards suck. A few elite areas still drop some worthy stuff but they're guarded by the powercreep. Not all skills can be equally effective, it's the nature of the beast, unless you give everybody one skill that does 50 damage and that's it. But that's not GW. GW is a game with a lot of different types of skills like MTG. The gods use godly creeps in their area, so the tools to beat them should have 'godly' qualities too if balanced can't counter them. The average skilled player can't beat UW or DoA balanced and they don't know how to use shadow form. And in a way that's what an elite area stands for. However, a group of players can farm it, but that group is certainly not casual. So we're left with power traders and 'pro' farmers who have an interest in the subject. Of course both the powertraders/rich people in the game and Anet are not shun for a nerf because the rich want to secure their gold and Anet wants to drag on the game until GW2 so it takes more grind to get some of the silly titles. Fix rewards, Fix powercreep, Fix silly titles, After that they might actually have a point to nerf shadow form. So yeah a skill with godmode characteristics shouldn't be in the game, but neither should be godlike creeps/bosses and crappy rewards for the time invested. RPG's have always been about character progression and cool stuff and GW PvE is no different. Hell, even PvP players want the cool stuff so they can die in style. |
manitoba1073
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tenebrae
You dont get it dont you ?. Let me expand your little GW knowledge with 2 words "cover enchant" . Anyway thats not the matter , dont go offtopic , now answer this :
- Why 98% of elite skills have bloody lots of counters and SF combo has so so SO few ? Why should 1 skill combo OVERCOME 98% of GW skills ?. No one is QQing here about not knowing to counter it dude.. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tenebrae
Yeah more of that "if you dont like it dont use it" and "how does someone using SF affect YOUR game play" BS pointless arguments to defend SF..
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tenebrae
No one is forced but there are ppl that are not stupid and if they can pack a colt m4a1 to a battle they will pick that weapon instead a stupid sword and a wand , got it ? ...... dear god when will this **** end ? maybe with the skill update ? god i hope so.
PS: Still can smell fear in this thread . |
reaper with no name
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gun Pierson
People can play 90% of the game's areas using balanced or whatever composition of classes in a team as long as the team finds the sweet spot between offense and defense.
There are a couple of areas left where the true powercreep rules. Playing an area for 4 hours to receive like 10k if you're lucky is just not fun. Because most of the veterans already played the game several times and did the elite stuff playing 'balanced' anyway. Why do people use Shadow Form? Because it's the most efficient way of farming some stuff in a game where rewards suck. A few elite areas still drop some worthy stuff but they're guarded by the powercreep. Not all skills can be equally effective, it's the nature of the beast, unless you give everybody one skill that does 50 damage and that's it. But that's not GW. GW is a game with a lot of different types of skills like MTG. The gods use godly creeps in their area, so the tools to beat them should have 'godly' qualities too if balanced can't counter them. The average skilled player can't beat UW or DoA balanced and they don't know how to use shadow form. And in a way that's what an elite area stands for. However, a group of players can farm it, but that group is certainly not casual. So we're left with power traders and 'pro' farmers who have an intrest in the subject. Ofourse both the powertraders/rich people in the game and Anet are not shun for a nerf because the rich want to secure their gold and Anet wants to drag on the game until GW2 so it takes more grind to get some of the silly titles. Fix rewards, Fix powercreep, Fix silly titles, After that they might actually have a point to nerf shadow form. So yeah a skill with godmode characteristics shouldn't be in the game, but neither should be godlike creeps/bosses and crappy rewards for the time invested. RPG's have always been about character progression and cool stuff and GW PvE is no different. Hell, even PvP players want the cool stuff so they can die in style. |
Also, if Anet were to fix those things, do you really think they would do it all at once? Of course not. And if they don't fix them all at once and do them in the order you describe, then none of it would mean jack until they get to the end and finally nerf SF, because until then people will just keep on using SF.
A patient comes into the ER with a malignant tumor on his foot, anthrax, and a bullet wound in his chest. Any one of these could be fatal. Which do you treat first? The bullet wound, obviously, because unless you fix that, the other things won't matter.
The Drunkard
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Originally Posted by manitoba1073
LAT ME ENLIGHTAN TAHT LITLE KNOWLEDG3 TAHT U HAEV OF GW!!111 TRY 30% OF SKILS IN GW AF3CT SF IN ONE WAY OR ANOTH3R!!!11!1 OMG JUST B/C UR NOT QUIET SMART 3NOUGH 2 FIGURA SOMETHNG LIEK TAHT OUT DO3SNT MAEK SOMATHNG GOD MODE!11!1!!1 OMG LOL BUT PLZ KEP TRYNG 2 SHOW DA AROGENT IGNORANC3 OF UR PURPORT3D HATRED OF SF!1!111!1 WTF LOL
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by FyrFytr998
Yet, not one person who is Anti-SF and used the personally affected argument has come up with a valid reason as to how they are affected personally by someone else using SF for SC's and farming. Since they have no answer they just dismiss the question all together. I can at least respect Bryant's position that ANET did not intend for the game to be played this way, so since it's their world, they will change it as they see fit. No arguing fact right there. But you say the above is pointless and BS without even saying why it is so. Ultimately this type of back and forth arguing is more personal than factual.
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You're so right, SF has absolutly nothing to do with the rest of the game at all!
jshrimp3
But why are those cheaper prices bad? Oh no, you can't rake in as much dough as you used to? Boo hoo. Prices aren't constant, some things drop in price, some things increase in price, it's the way of the world.
This is, once again, the argument of "THANKS TO SF I CAN'T BE AS COMPARATIVELY RICH AS I USED TO BE."
This is, once again, the argument of "THANKS TO SF I CAN'T BE AS COMPARATIVELY RICH AS I USED TO BE."
Tenebrae
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Originally Posted by manitoba1073
Let me enlighten that little knowledge that you have of GW. Try 30% of skills in GW affect SF in one way or another. Just because your not quite smart enough to figure something like that out doesnt make something god mode. But please keep trying to show the arrogent ignorance of your purported hatred of SF.
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Please , keep making false assumptions , hatred of SF ? hahahaha ! when did i say that i dont USE it ? or that i dont ABUSE it for farming right now ?. You are clueless pal and that feeling is making you insult me .
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Originally Posted by manitoba1073
Yeap because its the argument that is the most true, Dont like tough shit.
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Originally Posted by manitoba1073
Yeap I can smell something too, shame its all the BS from the side that wants to nerf stuff for wrong reasons.
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Listening to : Rolling Stones . Tiiiiiime .... is on my side , yes it is !
Bryant Again
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Drunkard
And exactly how many of those skills do monsters have in order to stop permasins from stomping all over elite areas/dungeons?
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zwei2stein
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Originally Posted by Bryant Again
That re-quote was possibly one of the best things I've seen on here in the longest time.
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UnChosen
Quote:
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Originally Posted by reaper with no name
You forgot one of the crucial issues with SF; not only is it powerful enough to do all that grindy stuff, but it's also so good that there's no reason to play anything else. Why even have the other 9 professions, really?
Also, if Anet were to fix those things, do you really think they would do it all at once? Of course not. And if they don't fix them all at once and do them in the order you describe, then none of it would mean jack until they get to the end and finally nerf SF, because until then people will just keep on using SF. A patient comes into the ER with a malignant tumor on his foot, anthrax, and a bullet wound in his chest. Any one of these could be fatal. Which do you treat first? The bullet wound, obviously, because unless you fix that, the other things won't matter. |
There were plenty of logical arguments predicting that DoA would become a ghost town if Anet just nerf Ursan without toning the place town, guess what? The predictions was true...
As for the "bullet wound", its not SF. SF is the bandaid, the "bullet wound" is gameplay and area that are designed to have crappy reward that are only worth it if you have a guild to do the area as fast as possible. The tumor is gimmicky design that prevents pugs from learning the area efficiently, while allowing "pro" guilds/friend teams to blow through the area with ease. Etc.
Its all those other problems that needs to be fixed or nerfing SF won't matter. It'll just chase like 99% of the player base away to solo farm, another speed clear, or just leave the game. And no, "they should just leave the game" is just as invalid as "don't like it, don't use it" as an argument.
Red Apple
Quote:
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Originally Posted by jshrimp3
But why are those cheaper prices bad?
This is, once again, the argument of "THANKS TO SF I CAN'T BE AS COMPARATIVELY RICH AS I USED TO BE." |
Pve is for STATUS or FUN (which after 3 years I know you would get bored of the same missions over and over, or whatever float your boat), if you take status then fun only lasts a while.
The Drunkard
Quote:
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Originally Posted by jshrimp3
But why are those cheaper prices bad? Oh no, you can't rake in as much dough as you used to? Boo hoo. Prices aren't constant, some things drop in price, some things increase in price, it's the way of the world.
This is, once again, the argument of "THANKS TO SF I CAN'T BE AS COMPARATIVELY RICH AS I USED TO BE." |
I have achieved: one obby set, mini mallyx, full destroyer wep HoM, defensive caster torm set, and are currently striving for a obby blade (100e's so far), which has all been from SF or 600/smite. I have played the game for 3 1/3 years and I've made more money exploiting invincibility build for six months than by casually farming (splinter barrage, trolls, vermin, etc) for the rest of my time. It's not that i'm not raking in dough, it's that all of my spots I have farmed before have either been nerfed or depreciated by permasins and SB monks- and i've done A LOT of different areas.
jshrimp3
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Red Apple
Because it hurts the WHOLE economy, people play for rewards and whenever a high-end item would go common all the hours spent on farming it for veterans wouldnt have been worth it.
Pve is for STATUS or FUN (which after 3 years I know you would get bored of the same missions over and over, or whatever float your boat), if you take status then fun only lasts a while. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Drunkard
If you don't know what depression is in an economic situation, I suggest you go look it up or take a course on it before posting. How does one go about making money now in our economy without exploiting Sf or any invincibility skills? Chest running has collapsed in profit due to the chest nerf and the depreciation of items, solo play in non-elite areas is lootscaled, and powertrading isn't actually playing the game. Most of the non-sf/600/smite cash I make is from nicholas stuff, farming items for scers, and the free-nf treasures. If you want to use macroeconomics as an example in GW, then name five items in GWthat have gone up in price. I can, and they all are used to aid SCs.
I have achieved: one obby set, mini mallyx, full destroyer wep HoM, defensive caster torm set, and are currently striving for a obby blade (100e's so far), which has all been from SF or 600/smite. I have played the game for 3 1/3 years and I've made more money exploiting invincibility build for six months than by casually farming (splinter barrage, trolls, vermin, etc) for the rest of my time. It's not that i'm not raking in dough, it's that all of my spots I have farmed before have either been nerfed or depreciated by permasins and SB monks- and i've done A LOT of different areas. |
I don't play for status, that's not what I go for. I'm not saying you shouldn't go for status, I'm not saying you should. It's just differing playstyles. But most people don't try to be the very best.
Once again, everyone who's arguing against SF has the mindset that PvE is competitive, you versus everyone else in a race to the top of the money pile. And that's not necessarily what it is.
As for how do you make money in this situation without SF, I've made 1000k in the past 5 weeks without SF. It's not bucketloads of cash by any means, it's less than a stack of ectos, but still it's something. And I haven't even been trying very hard. If you're going to respond to this by saying you're forced to use SF to make money faster because everyone else does, then see above.
AOD_EaSyKiLL
Quote:
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Originally Posted by reaper with no name
You forgot one of the crucial issues with SF; not only is it powerful enough to do all that grindy stuff, but it's also so good that there's no reason to play anything else. Why even have the other 9 professions, really?
Also, if Anet were to fix those things, do you really think they would do it all at once? Of course not. And if they don't fix them all at once and do them in the order you describe, then none of it would mean jack until they get to the end and finally nerf SF, because until then people will just keep on using SF. A patient comes into the ER with a malignant tumor on his foot, anthrax, and a bullet wound in his chest. Any one of these could be fatal. Which do you treat first? The bullet wound, obviously, because unless you fix that, the other things won't matter. |
This ER patient (Guild Wars), with the tumor (600/smite), anthrax (USWC), and bullet wound (SF), had all of these issues fixed, yet he died on the OR table after sowing him back up. Turns out, the bullet wound was preventing blood circulating to the tumor in the leg, once the wound was patched, blood returned and made the tumor grow uncontrollably. The Tumor had to be removed by amputating the leg (nerf farming). The Anthrax turns out to be a misdiagnosis caused by Leprosy (loot scaling) in the patient who had a defective immune system (titles), which was running wild from antibiotics (grind). Turns out the only thing keeping him alive was the bullet wound.
Bryant Again
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Originally Posted by jshrimp3
Once again, everyone who's arguing against SF has the mindset that PvE is competitive, you versus everyone else in a race to the top of the money pile. And that's not necessarily what it is.
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Phaern Majes
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Originally Posted by AOD_EaSyKiLL
Lets finish your analogy "House" fashion.
This ER patient (Guild Wars), with the tumor (600/smite), anthrax (USWC), and bullet wound (SF), had all of these issues fixed, yet he died on the OR table after sowing him back up. Turns out, the bullet wound was preventing blood circulating to the tumor in the leg, once the wound was patched, blood returned and made the tumor grow uncontrollably. The Tumor had to be removed by amputating the leg (nerf farming). The Anthrax turns out to be a misdiagnosis caused by Leprosy (loot scaling) in the patient who had a defective immune system (titles), which was running wild from antibiotics (grind). Turns out the only thing keeping him alive was the bullet wound. |
FyrFytr998
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Originally Posted by The Drunkard
So, the weapons that I've been chest running haven't deteriorated in price at all? (I used to CR saurian scythes/eswords btw) And of course SF has nothing to do with the poor prices of tomes, greens, and gemstones. But hey, dungeon end weps are still worth something (even when the price dropped greatly.) It's not like any mats have gone up in price as a result of SCs either (excluding feathers/iron).
You're so right, SF has absolutly nothing to do with the rest of the game at all! |
But I do thank you for an actual answer though.
w00t!
Personally, I could care less about the economics of SF or any other farming build, solo or team. If you want to grind out lots of virtual cash, more power to you. As we all know, collector's items are just as effective as BDS's and other high-value skins.
Where I do have a problem with SF and other similar skills (i.e. Ursan) is when it affects gameplay. Most of the arguments for SF are of the "don't screw with my farming, and quit QQ'ing" variety, but they fail to address the gameplay aspect.
Whenever builds predominate such that, if you're not using cut/paste PvXwiki builds, you can't get into a group, then that sucks the fun out of the game. It's always been there in some form (tank/spank, ursan, etc), but SF has taken it to the level of the absurd.
Does anyone realistically believe that Anet ever intended for UW to be completed in 15 mintues or less? And can you blame them if they make changes (either by nerfing SF, or countering specific builds) that makes Elite areas Elite again?
That, in short, is my problem with imbalanced skills such as SF.
Where I do have a problem with SF and other similar skills (i.e. Ursan) is when it affects gameplay. Most of the arguments for SF are of the "don't screw with my farming, and quit QQ'ing" variety, but they fail to address the gameplay aspect.
Whenever builds predominate such that, if you're not using cut/paste PvXwiki builds, you can't get into a group, then that sucks the fun out of the game. It's always been there in some form (tank/spank, ursan, etc), but SF has taken it to the level of the absurd.
Does anyone realistically believe that Anet ever intended for UW to be completed in 15 mintues or less? And can you blame them if they make changes (either by nerfing SF, or countering specific builds) that makes Elite areas Elite again?
That, in short, is my problem with imbalanced skills such as SF.
Dark Paladin X
Hey guys, you should at least thank the perma-Shadow Form builds for lowering the ecto prices as well as getting chaos gloves/obby armor more easily.
But still, one of my major concerns is farming Raptor Nestlings outside of Rata Sum of perma-Shadow Form gets nerfed. I mean, Raptor Farming is one of the best ways to farm holiday items. And without perma-Shadow Form, what other builds that can safely farm raptors?
But still, perma Shadow Form shouldn't be nerfed. Who is going to tank in the most difficult dungeons and areas in the game?
But still, one of my major concerns is farming Raptor Nestlings outside of Rata Sum of perma-Shadow Form gets nerfed. I mean, Raptor Farming is one of the best ways to farm holiday items. And without perma-Shadow Form, what other builds that can safely farm raptors?
But still, perma Shadow Form shouldn't be nerfed. Who is going to tank in the most difficult dungeons and areas in the game?
Eragon Zarroc
meh, we will see. never know for sure until the update comes 
. speculation is nothing more than something to distract us from how boring the game is becoming
. speculation is nothing more than something to distract us from how boring the game is becoming
pumpkin pie
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Originally Posted by Bryant Again
I'm more pointing out that playstyles vary. You yourself have said you aren't able to use an SF build too well. That doesn't point to the build being faulty, more that you may have troubles with it.
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good example of players who qq about skills is thread like this, out of the blue, a skills that my necro have been using for ages, all of a sudden, just because players only now realize its usage and BAM! everyone uses it, then BAM! ITS OVER POWERED. SF is the same thing, if nobody notices its usefulness its not over powered, when lots of player uses it and lots who can't use it gets jealous BAM ITS OVER POWERED. same story.