Next Skill Balance

Regina Buenaobra

Regina Buenaobra

ArenaNet

Join Date: Apr 2008

Me/

Hi everyone. I just posted this to my wiki to let you know what we're currently working on with the next skill balance:

The Test Krewe has been discussing many proposed skill balance changes in preparation for the next balance update. The next skill balance update will not be released this month, but we would still like to give you a few more details of what our developers are working on, with feedback from the Test Krewe. Please keep in mind that not all of these changes may make it into the next skill balance and there is the possibility of different changes making it in, however we just wanted to give you an idea of some of the projects we’re undertaking at this time. The upcoming skill balance falls into two categories: addressing pressing issues, and tackling other issues.

Pressing Issues
  • Shadow Form – Shadow Form is a formidable build, providing blanket protection against both attacks and spells. The developers and Test Krewe are taking a look at a couple of options, including reworking the skill from a fundamental level.
  • Possible Changes to 600 Smite – The effects of this build on the game are less pronounced than other extreme farming builds, however it operates on the same basic premise of making a character invulnerable all of the time. The developers are looking at changes to some of the skills in this build.
  • Balancing Midline Spike – Several skills have been identified as overpowered. Several of these skills have brought more damage and defense to GvG midlines than we'd like. This de-emphasizes distinctions in roles between frontline and midline characters and removes some of the versatility we've seen in midline characters in the past.
  • Addressing Fast Cast Blood Spike – The Test Krewe is currently taking a look at a couple of proposals targeted to address the cornerstone of this team build.
  • 4v4 Issues – We’re looking at both Illusion of Pain and Ebon Dust Aura in terms of addressing issues in the 4v4 format.
Addressing Other Issues

Again, please keep in mind that not all of these changes may make it into the next skill balance, and the changes may be different.
  • Hammer Mastery – Hammer suffers from a number of issues that make it difficult to take over other Warrior weapons in PvE. For example, the combination of high adrenaline costs, slow attack rate, and battles ending relatively quickly in PvE mean that it can be hard to use skills before a battle is over and mean that being blocked feels much harsher. We’re looking at a number of approaches to address these and other issues.
  • Tactics – Tactics is the least exciting Warrior attribute and primarily sees use as a secondary attribute on other classes. We’re considering several options to address the weaknesses of Tactics.

Gun Pierson

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

Leave 600/smite alone.


Other than that, tx for the heads up.

DragonRogue

DragonRogue

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2007

Seattle, WA USA

Demon Dawg Knights

E/Me

Thanks for the update again Regina. Much more detailed than your previous posts, but saying the same things youve already said this month. Dont know why some havent gotten this thru their heads yet. Now go enjoy the Holidays and deal with the QQers, after a good vacation, next year.

The Drunkard

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2007

Still looking

Rt/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra View Post
The Test Krewe has been discussing many proposed skill balance changes in preparation for the next balance update. The next skill balance update will not be released this month, but we would still like to give you a few more details of what our developers are working on, with feedback from the Test Krewe. Please keep in mind that not all of these changes may make it into the next skill balance and there is the possibility of different changes making it in
So in short, "there will be an update sometime in the future but we won't disclose when because we cannot keep to date we proposed."


Quote:
Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra View Post
Pressing Issues
Shadow Form – Shadow Form is a formidable build, providing blanket protection against both attacks and spells. The developers and Test Krewe are taking a look at a couple of options, including reworking the skill from a fundamental level.
Possible Changes to 600 Smite – The effects of this build on the game are less pronounced than other extreme farming builds, however it operates on the same basic premise of making a character invulnerable all of the time. The developers are looking at changes to some of the skills in this build.
That's good to hear, but what about the areas that these builds have been rampaging in, is there nothing going to be done to change them so that degenerate builds don't replace 600/permaform?

At least you informed us about what's going on which I appreciate, though I can't say I'm not dissapointed.

Ugh

Ugh

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2009

R/

Yay to the nerfing of farming builds that have been around way too long.

But, no changes to Wilderness Survival... D:

Also, I've heard rumors of Spirit Spamming being nerfed. Any comments on that?

Giga_Gaia

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2006

Travelling around Tyria, Cantha, and Elona

P/W

About time they finally addressed IoP.

Regina Buenaobra

Regina Buenaobra

ArenaNet

Join Date: Apr 2008

Me/

Keep in mind that this may not be all the changes involved. Those are just the changes that the developers were comfortable letting me reveal in public.

Targren

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

Primeval Warlords[wuw]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugh View Post
Yay to the nerfing of farming builds that have been around way too long.

But, no changes to Wilderness Survival... D:

Also, I've heard rumors of Spirit Spamming being nerfed. Any comments on that?
My guess is that would fall under the "Midline" part. I also expect that, if it doesn't, she's talking about killing Discordway.

The Drunkard

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2007

Still looking

Rt/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra View Post
Keep in mind that this may not be all the changes involved. Those are just the changes that the developers were comfortable letting me reveal in public.
Alright, I guess I'll have to wait n' see what happens then.

Karate Jesus

Karate Jesus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2008

Texas

Reign of Judgment [RoJ]

Me/

Meh, they're only 2 months late according to the "new way we're doing things" and that's not bad by Anet's standards.

I'm looking forward to removing the countdown timer on my GWW of how long it's been since a real skill "update" (6 months, btw).

Lishy

Lishy

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2008

There were actually quite a bit of changes discussed. Those, combined with wintersday, probably resulted in not making it to the deadline D:


I cannot say specifically as to what was discussed, but there's just so many great ideas, yet so many ideas being thrown at once, it'll be a pain in the ass for the programmers and not all may make it.
I just thought I'd let you guys know that we're making progress

Dzjudz

Dzjudz

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

gwpvx.com/user:dzjudz

SF QQ'ers just got pwnd for at least another month. Can we please close/delete all those threads, since we know that there won't be a nerf for a looong time to come?

StormDragonZ

StormDragonZ

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2008

New York

W/R

I'm not going to believe any form of skill balance, change, nerf, buff and/or any term used revolving around skills will happen until it happens. In the end, a fair amount of people will not even give a GO RED ENGINE by then and you can bet on that.

In fact, because of this thread right here; this information Regina has provided: If anyone needs to QQ or GO RED ENGINE about skill balances and/or skill whatever, wait until the update ACTUALLY HAPPENS, then you can shoot your mouth off (or type with your fingers).

Till then, have a fun and exciting Wintersday!

Oh yeah, thanks for sharing the 5% you're allowed to reveal, Regina.

akio pwns

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2007

ny

[KISS]

D/

dont bs me... let them change EVERYTHING. Id like a new face to farming, so let them nerf a bit 600/smite. In most ways its like SF at the top 2 of the god mod list.

Im interested... like to see something done to dervs in mysticism. Agree on the Hammer and Tatics possible change.

Barrage

Barrage

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2008

A/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra View Post
Shadow Form – Shadow Form is a formidable build, providing blanket protection against both attacks and spells. The developers and Test Krewe are taking a look at a couple of options, including reworking the skill from a fundamental level.

Possible Changes to 600 Smite – The effects of this build on the game are less pronounced than other extreme farming builds, however it operates on the same basic premise of making a character invulnerable all of the time. The developers are looking at changes to some of the skills in this build.
Farmers Response: TACTICAL NUKE INCOMING, IT'S ALL OVER!

Apollo Smile

Apollo Smile

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2008

[LORE]

E/Mo

Guys, just try to have a good Wintersday. The Test Krewe is really taking these skills and proposals seriously. I can assure you, no random darts are being thrown.

Lycan Nibbler

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2006

AZ

Remember that having another group to discuss things (krewe) and the time to get feedback/discuss involved, is going to take time - certainly more at the start as things "bed in" too, so Im not shocked that the update wont be this month..

The only problem I see now is that SF, 600/smite etc farm builds have been around for so long that the damage has already been done.
Im not sure how it will effect the game afterwards.. Id like to think it will mean more real groups doing dungeons etc, but I somehow doubt it at this stage of the game.

Thank you for the update Regina and Merry Xmas to you and the staff.

PS. please reintroduce HB, (codex HB would be fine) - just dont put it in the ZQ rotation ^.^

Carboplatin

Carboplatin

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2005

[PIG]

W/A

would love to be able to use tactics shields on a warrior again!

Karate Jesus

Karate Jesus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2008

Texas

Reign of Judgment [RoJ]

Me/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apollo Smile View Post
Guys, just try to have a good Wintersday. The Test Krewe is really taking these skills and proposals seriously. I can assure you, no random darts are being thrown.
I just hope to god some of you guys are PvP'ers and know what you're doing. From what I've seen only 1 major GvG'er was selected for the krewe......and that worries me a lot.

Voltaic Ectoplasm

Voltaic Ectoplasm

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2007

Mallyx's pimped out Crib

Mo/A

All the nerfs are killing the game imo....... after the nerfs have been finished we will have no skills left to use :P

StormDragonZ

StormDragonZ

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2008

New York

W/R

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apollo Smile View Post
Guys, just try to have a good Wintersday. The Test Krewe is really taking these skills and proposals seriously. I can assure you, no random darts are being thrown.
Let's hope so. The last thing I want to see as of right now is Aneurysm becoming an Inspiration Magic spell or Pin Down now having a recharge time of ten seconds instead of eight, among other insanely randomized changes.

Actually, now that I think about it, when the time comes for this update... the only people truly worth QQ'ing over, if a need for QQ, will be The Test Krewe members themselves.

x sithis x

x sithis x

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2009

[Pro]

N/

lol 600smite actually takes somewhat skill so dont nerf it
not like perma when you can just gather 1000000023 things and just be like what eva what eva i do what i want

Krill

Krill

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

America

I sincerely hope the dagger buffs in the August update are also on the table or perhaps (dare I say) a final fix for expertise in PvP. GvG is obviously the top priority and it's nice to see an acknowledgment of midline spike damage and FC blood spike as a problem but us idiot tombzers need some love too! You need to a full review of all skill buffs in the past 18 months in my opinion.

Reverend Dr

Reverend Dr

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Super Fans Of Gaile [ban]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltaic Ectoplasm View Post
All the nerfs are killing the game imo....... after the nerfs have been finished we will have no skills left to use :P
This is entirely wrong. Because so few skills have been so overpowered your skill selection is low. After nerfing the appropriate problems your skill selection will improve. Most people can't see balance beyond "they took my toy away"

Lishy

Lishy

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2008

There actually is a skill update this year.
Quoted from the GW site:
Quote:
* Avalanche: reduced activation time to 3/4 second; reduced Cripple duration to 7 seconds.
* Avatar of Dwayna (Snowball Arena): increased Health gain to 30 per skill; reduced activation time to 1 second.
* Avatar of Grenth (Snowball Arena): increased Health stolen to 15 per skill; reduced activation time to 1 second.
* Flurry of Ice: increased damage to 50 per snowball.
* Holiday Blues: reduced Health sacrifice to 50%; reduced effect duration to 30 seconds; increased activation time to 1 second; increased recharge time to 45 seconds.
* Icicles: increased recharge time to 25 seconds.
* Side Step: increased Health gain to 250; increased recharge time to 25 seconds.
* Steady Aim: this skill is now a Shout; removed activation time; reduced recharge time to 5 seconds.
* Yellow Snow: this skill is now a Preparation; reduced casting time to 3/4 second; increased recharge time to 12 seconds.
* Side Step has been removed from the following creatures and character:
o Dodgy Grentch now uses Hidden Rock.
o Playful Snowman now uses Hidden Rock.
o Vael (Snowball Dominance quest only) now uses "Let's Get ‘Em!"


Enjoy wintersday I say. Enjoy it!
Make some yellow snow and crush the sickening dwayna followers this year with powerful diseases! (Some in which include H1N1 Swine Flu Yellow Snow!)

Eragon Zarroc

Eragon Zarroc

Atra estern?? ono thelduin

Join Date: Jan 2008

Madness Incarnate

[Duo]

W/P

thanx for the update will keep an eye out for nex month

Apok Omen

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2006

Commence Aggro [BaMf]

Mo/E

First off, thank you for the update of the skill balance. Much appreciated.

Wasn't expecting Hammer and Tactics being looked at. Tactics looks fine to me (B-stance, D-stance, etc.) and Hammer wars have the same problem with Illusion Mesmers and Water Eles in PvE: if they don't do big damage to mobs, they sure as hell have a place in PvP.

Would be nice to here even more confirmations from the actual Test Krewe guys (like how it is looking, the quality of the work being done, top priorities, etc.)

Anyway, thanks for the flashlight!

Evil Eye

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2007

P/Me

whoooole lotta pve changes in there.................... maybe do the actual pvp love update that was promised

animal fighter

animal fighter

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2009

buying shields w/ armor vs animals

Animal Fightas Inc [?????????]

personally i am glad pet animals were buffesd but we need a buff of new pets like dragons

asb

asb

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2008

Europe

Me/

As long as there's still at least one skill combination left that can be used to accumulate more wealth than by playing regularly, I don't mind. /sarcasm

Curo

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2007

GMT-5

Liars, Cheats and Thieves [Liar]

Mo/

I'm looking forward to the reworking on some of the underpowered attributes. Thinking outside of the box

Jensy

Jensy

Site Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2007

Phoenix, Arizona

Blinkie Ponie Armie [bpa]

N/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karate Jesus View Post
I just hope to god some of you guys are PvP'ers and know what you're doing. From what I've seen only 1 major GvG'er was selected for the krewe......and that worries me a lot.
That is absolutely, positively, 100000% untrue.

Trust me on that.

zhongzh

zhongzh

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2008

Temple of Ages

Mo/

I guess this is the next best thing to a skill update. Thanks Regina!!

Chthon

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Apr 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra View Post
  • Shadow Form – Shadow Form is a formidable build, providing blanket protection against both attacks and spells. The developers and Test Krewe are taking a look at a couple of options, including reworking the skill from a fundamental level.
Fine. Lots of people happy to see it go.

Quote:
  • Possible Changes to 600 Smite – The effects of this build on the game are less pronounced than other extreme farming builds, however it operates on the same basic premise of making a character invulnerable all of the time. The developers are looking at changes to some of the skills in this build.
Be very careful here. Please remember that both Protective Spirit and Spirit Bond are essential staple skills in most non-farming PvE and PvP contexts. They probably should not be messed with. Probably the best way to tackle 600/smite is to nerf the "smite" component of 600/smite into the ground. I am not able to think of a satisfactory way to change either PS or SB to break 600/smite without doing huge collateral damage to normal play. Be very careful if you try.

Quote:
  • Balancing Midline Spike – Several skills have been identified as overpowered. Several of these skills have brought more damage and defense to GvG midlines than we'd like. This de-emphasizes distinctions in roles between frontline and midline characters and removes some of the versatility we've seen in midline characters in the past.
This is too vague to respond meaningfully to. PvP-only changes?

Quote:
  • Addressing Fast Cast Blood Spike – The Test Krewe is currently taking a look at a couple of proposals targeted to address the cornerstone of this team build.
Again, too vague to respond meaningfully to. While you're at it, please find a way to buff blood for PvE (without creating grossly overpowered HM monsters).

Quote:
  • 4v4 Issues – We’re looking at both Illusion of Pain and Ebon Dust Aura in terms of addressing issues in the 4v4 format.
Good. Please keep the changes PvP-only; those skills are fine in PvE.

Quote:
  • Hammer Mastery – Hammer suffers from a number of issues that make it difficult to take over other Warrior weapons in PvE. For example, the combination of high adrenaline costs, slow attack rate, and battles ending relatively quickly in PvE mean that it can be hard to use skills before a battle is over and mean that being blocked feels much harsher. We’re looking at a number of approaches to address these and other issues.
TBH, I don't find hammer particularly weak in PvE. Except at the very high end where GDW spam obviates hammer-based KD, earthshaker is more than good enough to deserve play -- and far stronger than anything the Axe line has to offer. (If search wasn't disabled right now, I'd link you more reading on that point.) If you don't have at least one person in your Test Krewe who gets this, you've got a problem...

Quote:
  • Tactics – Tactics is the least exciting Warrior attribute and primarily sees use as a secondary attribute on other classes. We’re considering several options to address the weaknesses of Tactics.
Good.

And, one other thing: NCSoft has major security problems that need fixed, YESTERDAY! Fixing those (and I don't mean "solutions" like pretending all the vulnerabilities are userside/third-party-side and telling people to just change their passwords) should take priority over skill balances right now.

Auron of Neon

Auron of Neon

cool story bro

Join Date: Apr 2006

Mililani

yumy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karate Jesus View Post
I just hope to god some of you guys are PvP'ers and know what you're doing. From what I've seen only 1 major GvG'er was selected for the krewe......and that worries me a lot.
trolls trolling trolls trolling trolls trolling...

majikmajikmajik

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2007

SATown~Tx

Guild Hopper!

R/

FIX PET CORPSES IN PVE - no reason you cant raise a minion from them anymore with all the other over powered stuff going on since the "nerf".

also revert PvP Escape please? lol

Karate Jesus

Karate Jesus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2008

Texas

Reign of Judgment [RoJ]

Me/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auron of Neon View Post
trolls trolling trolls trolling trolls trolling...
Lol, I was serious. But obviously I've not heard a good deal of the people on the krewe

Also, /wave.

kazjun

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

HoVa

W/N

Lol, tactics on a warrior? It's been like what, about 2-3 years since that's happened. Thought it had been shifted to become a monk or para attribute

Apollo Smile

Apollo Smile

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2008

[LORE]

E/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karate Jesus View Post
I just hope to god some of you guys are PvP'ers and know what you're doing. From what I've seen only 1 major GvG'er was selected for the krewe......and that worries me a lot.
There is a VERY good representation on both sides.

Auron of Neon

Auron of Neon

cool story bro

Join Date: Apr 2006

Mililani

yumy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apollo Smile View Post
There is a VERY good representation on both sides.
that's just lying about it. embellish it slightly, don't go all out into fantasyland