Next Skill Balance
Krill
I heard from a TK insider that instead of having a skill update next month, anet is planning to hold a contest to predict what the excuse for not having an update will be. The player with the closest guess will receive 500 z-keys, a unique tonic and a statue in GoTB commemorating their guessing supremacy.
Welthas
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Krill
I heard from a TK insider that instead of having a skill update next month, anet is planning to hold a contest to predict what the excuse for not having an update will be. The player with the closest guess will receive 500 z-keys, a unique tonic and a statue in GoTB commemorating their guessing supremacy.
|
Silmar Alech
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Krill
The player with the closest guess will receive 500 z-keys, a unique tonic and a statue in GoTB commemorating their guessing supremacy.
|
FyrFytr998
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Aurelio
This skill update is going to be released when gw2 will be ready for open betas.
They will nerf SF, 600/smite, 55s, Trappers, VWK, Sliver armor, obsidian flesh, Spirit Spammer, mark of pain, so that you will need 8 men team even to clean your ass. Then pvers move to gw2. |
Karate Jesus
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Krill
I heard from a TK insider that instead of having a skill update next month, anet is planning to hold a contest to predict what the excuse for not having an update will be. The player with the closest guess will receive 500 z-keys, a unique tonic and a statue in GoTB commemorating their guessing supremacy.
|
"It's all their fault! They're inexperienced and disorganized! What? What do you mean it was our idea to hire inexperienced people and placed them in a disorganized system? Shut up! Iz THEIR FAULTZ!!!1!"
Cale Roughstar
At about 6PM EST last night (about two hours before a skill balance would appear), I asked my guildie if he wanted to hear a joke.
Here is an approximate transcript of that conversation:
Me: "Hey, who wants to hear a joke?"
Him: "Try me"
Me: "WE ARE GOING TO GET AN UPDATE TONIGHT LOLOLOLOLOL"
Him: "Lol"
I just dont really give a damn anymore, I am so used to all this crap. Yes, anet has kept the game running for a long time now, and yes it is an excellent product considering it is free to play. I have more than got my money's worth for the modest sum I invested in buying all the games etc. So kudos to anet for getting the game out in the first place. But seriously, they need to get their shit togeather if they want me to buy GW2.
We don't have to be in the loop about absolutely everything, I don't even care if skill balances are late every once in a while, but when they are many months late without even so much as a "not yet guys", the alarm bells go off in my head. Do they really expect anything other than the massive ammounts of QQ they get on the forums? Do they even care? They don't have to care, but I sure as hell don't have to buy any more of their products. Their call.
Here is an approximate transcript of that conversation:
Me: "Hey, who wants to hear a joke?"
Him: "Try me"
Me: "WE ARE GOING TO GET AN UPDATE TONIGHT LOLOLOLOLOL"
Him: "Lol"
I just dont really give a damn anymore, I am so used to all this crap. Yes, anet has kept the game running for a long time now, and yes it is an excellent product considering it is free to play. I have more than got my money's worth for the modest sum I invested in buying all the games etc. So kudos to anet for getting the game out in the first place. But seriously, they need to get their shit togeather if they want me to buy GW2.
We don't have to be in the loop about absolutely everything, I don't even care if skill balances are late every once in a while, but when they are many months late without even so much as a "not yet guys", the alarm bells go off in my head. Do they really expect anything other than the massive ammounts of QQ they get on the forums? Do they even care? They don't have to care, but I sure as hell don't have to buy any more of their products. Their call.
Karate Jesus
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Cale Roughstar
But seriously, they need to get their shit togeather if they want me to buy GW2.
We don't have to be in the loop about absolutely everything, I don't even care if skill balances are late every once in a while, but when they are many months late without even so much as a "not yet guys", the alarm bells go off in my head. Do they really expect anything other than the massive ammounts of QQ they get on the forums? Do they even care? They don't have to care, but I sure as hell don't have to buy any more of their products. Their call. |
I don't know if I want to buy another game from this company anymore. There are soooo many great games coming out over the next 2 years, that I don't know that it's worth it. There are several MMO's coming out that could be FtP, so I may just move on to them.
It sucks, but it's true. I just don't trust them to develop well anymore.
Welthas
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Karate Jesus
The part I bolded is where I'm at too. I used to be more than ready to buy GW2 and play it, but since all this shit last year and continuing into this year, I've really questioned it.
I don't know if I want to buy another game from this company anymore. There are soooo many great games coming out over the next 2 years, that I don't know that it's worth it. There are several MMO's coming out that could be FtP, so I may just move on to them. It sucks, but it's true. I just don't trust them to develop well anymore. |
Rampage
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Coast
who failed[Anet]
Never make stupid stuff like tk and work out stuff urselves instead, or are u paid for nothing?! |
Quote:
| It sucks, but it's true. I just don't trust them to develop well anymore. |
thedarkmarine
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Xenex Xclame
Signet of Ghostly Might says hi.
Besides that point, it still should not be a reason for them to not update the game,excuse is excuse,no matter how good the excuse sounds. |
Giga_Gaia
^I know for a fact that if I tried out that kind of excuse that Regina spouted to my boss, I would have been gone long before I even finished the first sentence.
jazilla
The first post by Regina was December 17th to announce the changes. The whole staff knew that break was upon them. Her second post to say that the winter break was part of the problem is a joke. You guys knew the break was coming. Posting that did more harm than good to the game and its players. I prepped because I thought the update was coming. You then gave us a completely canned response to why it was delayed. I think both sides of the nerf/buff fence have every right to be disheartened/angry about these delays. Just because you didn't think GW2 would take so long to develeop isn't an excuse to stop paying any attention to this game. Hmmm, SW: The Old Republic is coming out the same year as GW2...may be worth it to switch games if this is the type of care I can expect in GW2.
Chocobo1
If GW2 Is anything like this, I'll just stick to Diablo 3 tbh.
Turbo Ginsu
All of this is what I've been saying all along. aNet built a monster, it's out of their control because even they, the creators no longer understand the thing they've done well enough to actually run or manage it correctly.
GW2 is coming(they say)and aNet knows it's probably the only thing keeping us the tiniest bit interested in putting up with the steady flow of bull they've been pumping out for quite some time now, in the form of crappy updates, crappy wintersday hats and events, more crappy hats for other same old same old crappy festivals, ill-thought out crappy buffs and crappy nerfs...Crappy bugs, crappy meta..Crappity crap crap crap.
And this is from someone who actually loves GW..They'd really better get it together, for their own sake..No company is immune to the flop, and no company is immune to going under due to sheer mis-management.
GW2 is coming(they say)and aNet knows it's probably the only thing keeping us the tiniest bit interested in putting up with the steady flow of bull they've been pumping out for quite some time now, in the form of crappy updates, crappy wintersday hats and events, more crappy hats for other same old same old crappy festivals, ill-thought out crappy buffs and crappy nerfs...Crappy bugs, crappy meta..Crappity crap crap crap.
And this is from someone who actually loves GW..They'd really better get it together, for their own sake..No company is immune to the flop, and no company is immune to going under due to sheer mis-management.
shoyon456
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Karate Jesus
It sucks, but it's true. I just don't trust them to maintain well anymore. |
Gill Halendt
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Chocobo1
If GW2 Is anything like this, I'll just stick to Diablo 3 tbh.
|
At least I know that I can trust D3 to come out sometimes in the future, even if it's late.
QueenofDeath
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Gun Pierson
Leave 600/smite alone.
Other than that, tx for the heads up. |
Leave blood spikes alone my god how many times are you going to nerf other builds besides the holy trinity in pvp matches? I'm sick to death of the holy trinity matchups in pvp. You've ruined every build that can counter them from year 1 to present. It's time the holy trinity was laid to rest just like the others you've destroyed. I want to see a team of Fire ele's vs blood spikers instead of some stupid W/E using Shock all the gd time.
GoF
Nice ideas, bad timing.
Really... did it take them 3 years to percept the problem of 600/smite? ANET, you missed the train a long time ago.
At least we'll have less lag after they scare off casual players with this update.
Really... did it take them 3 years to percept the problem of 600/smite? ANET, you missed the train a long time ago.
At least we'll have less lag after they scare off casual players with this update.
lishi
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by QueenofDeath
Kick the crap out of 600/smite and SF as well.
Leave blood spikes alone my god how many times are you going to nerf other builds besides the holy trinity in pvp matches? I'm sick to death of the holy trinity matchups in pvp. You've ruined every build that can counter them from year 1 to present. It's time the holy trinity was laid to rest just like the others you've destroyed. I want to see a team of Fire ele's vs blood spikers instead of some stupid W/E using Shock all the gd time. |
From my memory all the professions got their round of nerfs.
richdaddy
Man A lot of you are uptight about this game. A Game.. Why stress yourself about it like it's the only thing in life?...or is it for you? I hope it isn't, I play guitar in my spare time too, you should try it, or anything really. I myself have been tromping around GW for 4 & 1/2 years ish (with 3-4 month breaks scattered in). The only skill update that shook me was way back when AoE Dmg made monsters scatter lol. We all adjusted just fine despite it though.
I can't think of one skill update that stopped my friends or I from doing anything we wanted in this game. We don't keep track uf updates either, they just happen for us & we hit the site to see what's up, adjust and move on. Yeah it may suck, I have to admit sometimes I'm like Dang lol but O well, time to fire up the brain and try something new. Matter fact I don't find the UW a challenge solo, I don't know how to 600 (don't care), and I don't really like my sin, he has dust on him lol. Just like someone else said, they will nerf it, and another version will be right back.
Ok so info is iffy at times, it's late, it's early, what ever the case, I'm sorry but who cares. Name one company that's perfect... Name one perfect person while you're at it... Don't bother because you can't. Some of you are going off the deep end over a game and saying some pretty off the wall stuff like you are...
I guess I don't see the big deal, late or not, when it happens, everything will be as it was not long after (just a new flavor). So why stress about when the brief delay will occur? If you find your build stale, make a new one. If your circle doesn't accept your custom build; find a new circle that's not made of robots who paste template code.
Anyway I hope you all are having a good new year despite your frustration with GW.
Laterz :-)
I can't think of one skill update that stopped my friends or I from doing anything we wanted in this game. We don't keep track uf updates either, they just happen for us & we hit the site to see what's up, adjust and move on. Yeah it may suck, I have to admit sometimes I'm like Dang lol but O well, time to fire up the brain and try something new. Matter fact I don't find the UW a challenge solo, I don't know how to 600 (don't care), and I don't really like my sin, he has dust on him lol. Just like someone else said, they will nerf it, and another version will be right back.
Ok so info is iffy at times, it's late, it's early, what ever the case, I'm sorry but who cares. Name one company that's perfect... Name one perfect person while you're at it... Don't bother because you can't. Some of you are going off the deep end over a game and saying some pretty off the wall stuff like you are...
I guess I don't see the big deal, late or not, when it happens, everything will be as it was not long after (just a new flavor). So why stress about when the brief delay will occur? If you find your build stale, make a new one. If your circle doesn't accept your custom build; find a new circle that's not made of robots who paste template code.
Anyway I hope you all are having a good new year despite your frustration with GW.
Laterz :-)
Xenex Xclame
The healer (monk) the "tank" (warrior) and the damage (the ele).
Orry
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Xenex Xclame
The healer (monk) the "tank" (warrior) and the damage (the ele).
|
QueenofDeath
Yeah but, there's always that Yeah But! Warriors, Monks and Ele's still rule the holy trinity in PVP matches of any significance. This is what I'm tired of though because it's always the same types. I love it when I see necros as a team kick some butt and Ele's even Mesmers. Anything but sorry repetitive tired old holy trinity groups. Need more balance where there will be more Dervishers, Paragons, Ritualists as teams instead of Warrior, Monk, Ele blazey crummy teams.
Reformed
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Orry
Warriors are not tanks, they are damage. Traditionally Elementalists are support, them being damage comes after Nightfall and is one of the things that should be fixed. And, of course you need a healer if there is a profession that can do it, Monks have been nerfed several times to make them not be able to outheal everything.
|
lord of all tyria
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by QueenofDeath
Yeah but, there's always that Yeah But! Warriors, Monks and Ele's still rule the holy trinity in PVP matches of any significance. This is what I'm tired of though because it's always the same types. I love it when I see necros as a team kick some butt and Ele's even Mesmers. Anything but sorry repetitive tired old holy trinity groups. Need more balance where there will be more Dervishers, Paragons, Ritualists as teams instead of Warrior, Monk, Ele blazey crummy teams.
|
Almost all GvG matches include a rit, and in the last mAT [ym] made the final (and only lost because of a horrendous mistake at 26 minutes) using dual paragons.
Yelling @ Cats
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Reformed
When someone writes holy trinity they are talking about W/Mo/E as traditional easy to understand job roles and positions. Frontline tank(s) are aggro control, the midline is where your damage comes from via casterspike and the backline is support and heals. What you are thinking of seems more like physway/manlyspike type setups where the frontline is damage and everything else is support and heals, it's not the same thing.
|
One way works.
The other way is terrible.
PuppyEater
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Rampage
Yeah, how dare they get the help of players when it comes to getting feedback on skills and testing updates. They should just continue giving us fail skill balances and updates full of bugs.
|
Orry
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Reformed
When someone writes holy trinity they are talking about W/Mo/E as traditional easy to understand job roles and positions. Frontline tank(s) are aggro control, the midline is where your damage comes from via casterspike and the backline is support and heals. What you are thinking of seems more like physway/manlyspike type setups where the frontline is damage and everything else is support and heals, it's not the same thing.
|
Reformed
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Orry
Except, Guild Wars is, or at least initially was, balanced around Warriors being the primary damage with casters adding to it, preventing it, or healing it. Or is the math here wrong? http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...21&postcount=1
|
Del
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by QueenofDeath
Leave blood spikes alone my god how many times are you going to nerf other builds besides the holy trinity in pvp matches? I'm sick to death of the holy trinity matchups in pvp. You've ruined every build that can counter them from year 1 to present. It's time the holy trinity was laid to rest just like the others you've destroyed. I want to see a team of Fire ele's vs blood spikers instead of some stupid W/E using Shock all the gd time.
|
Also, trinity? lolwut?
Orry
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Reformed
The numbers are fine and the analysis is great but this isn't about DPS it's about what is actually meant by holy trinity. When that comes up they are talking about damage from the midline, not the front. It's meant as an oversimplification of job roles.
|
Zahr Dalsk
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Apathetic Tom
Because in pvp, the most skilled player should win. gimmicks allow poorly skilled players to win against skilled players.
|
Maybe other people think a spike is skill, and think it should stay.
And who are you to argue? What makes your definition of skill more valid than theirs?
Krill
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
That's a very shaky argument, because what defines skill?
|
HawkofStorms
Orry, Reformed isn't advocating the holy trinity. He's just explaining what the term means. Neither was Xenex Xclame, which is why when he called the warrior a tank, he put it in quotation marks as "tank," because he knew warriors aren't tanks and was indicating disbelief in the idea.
The holy trinity means tank/healer/DPS as it appears in other MMOs. Players who play those other games, who come over to guild wars, automatically assume (incorrectly) that the spell caster "mage type" ele is a damage dealer, and the heavily armored melee warrior is a tank and often try to carry those expectations over to GW.
Only QueenofDeath is complaining about the holy trinity appearing in PvP (which it doesn't since tanking and traditional CC doesn't exist in GW). And even then, I don't think QueenofDeath is REALLY complaining about that. I think he's just complaining that some metas are considered "acceptable" while others are considered "gimmicks" simply because of the professions that appear in those builds, when in fact they are often all gimmicky.
The holy trinity means tank/healer/DPS as it appears in other MMOs. Players who play those other games, who come over to guild wars, automatically assume (incorrectly) that the spell caster "mage type" ele is a damage dealer, and the heavily armored melee warrior is a tank and often try to carry those expectations over to GW.
Only QueenofDeath is complaining about the holy trinity appearing in PvP (which it doesn't since tanking and traditional CC doesn't exist in GW). And even then, I don't think QueenofDeath is REALLY complaining about that. I think he's just complaining that some metas are considered "acceptable" while others are considered "gimmicks" simply because of the professions that appear in those builds, when in fact they are often all gimmicky.
Orry
I was merely stating the "the holy trinity" shouldn't be used to reference Guild Wars, at all.
I would define gimmicky if they used professions for roles that their mechanics allow but were actually designed for another profession.
For instance, using expertise to do more damage for less energy is a bit gimmicky, it should be a bit less damage, but in reality it isn't.
Midline characters dealing more damage by stacking Searing Flames is gimmicky, frontline is for damage, midline is for spike-support and other support.
Now Rangers should be able to run front-line characters, they should just do less damage than they are currently capable of, Elementalists should be able to do a good deal of damage, at touch range.
Damage should be based on survivability, energy management, and position required. Rangers are easily very survivable and should do less damage because of this, but if they are in a front-line position then they should do more than is capable at range.
I would define gimmicky if they used professions for roles that their mechanics allow but were actually designed for another profession.
For instance, using expertise to do more damage for less energy is a bit gimmicky, it should be a bit less damage, but in reality it isn't.
Midline characters dealing more damage by stacking Searing Flames is gimmicky, frontline is for damage, midline is for spike-support and other support.
Now Rangers should be able to run front-line characters, they should just do less damage than they are currently capable of, Elementalists should be able to do a good deal of damage, at touch range.
Damage should be based on survivability, energy management, and position required. Rangers are easily very survivable and should do less damage because of this, but if they are in a front-line position then they should do more than is capable at range.
Tearz1993
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
That's a very shaky argument, because what defines skill?
Maybe other people think a spike is skill, and think it should stay. And who are you to argue? What makes your definition of skill more valid than theirs? |
YunSooJin
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Apathetic Tom
Because in pvp, the most skilled player should win. gimmicks allow poorly skilled players to win against skilled players.
Also, trinity? lolwut? |
The argument against gimmicks is not that it blurs the line between 'more skilled' and 'less skilled' players, but that it makes the gameplay shallow and therefore boring. It's kind of like replacing all the pieces in chess with rooks except for the king. Okay..everyone can play it, but the game has no depth anymore.
Spartan Digz
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Orry
Warriors are not tanks, they are damage. Traditionally Elementalists are support, them being damage comes after Nightfall and is one of the things that should be fixed. And, of course you need a healer if there is a profession that can do it, Monks have been nerfed several times to make them not be able to outheal everything.
|
Elementalists are support, but I'd classify them as Support/damage tbh, if the warrior was a tank in a 'proper balanced group' then that would allow elementalists to do the damage but also support other dps's for example rangers and dps warriors/dervishes.
Monks need to be able to heal, not necessary outheal everything or then you'd have people complaining over how OP monks are. Monks need to be able to heal sufficiently and efficiently, I'm not going to say how as their are far too many variables and factors to consider and different forms of monking, just for argument sakes prot vs heal.
If Anet is going to make GW more balanced, in a sense of professions being able to do the jobs that they were supposed to at the start (this dependant on what games people played before GW, or what they think should be the traditional jobs of a specific profession), then it would make the game more interesting and encourage group play, almost to the point where it mimics WoW.
Orry
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Spartan Digz
Warriors technically should be able to tank, if tactics were at a a decent stage then they wouldn't need to use the obby tank. Warriors traditionally should be a tank, but also should have the chance to be damage as well, with 8 skills allowed that would negate any chance of people abusing this tank/dps combo.
Elementalists are support, but I'd classify them as Support/damage tbh, if the warrior was a tank in a 'proper balanced group' then that would allow elementalists to do the damage but also support other dps's for example rangers and dps warriors/dervishes. Monks need to be able to heal, not necessary outheal everything or then you'd have people complaining over how OP monks are. Monks need to be able to heal sufficiently and efficiently, I'm not going to say how as their are far too many variables and factors to consider and different forms of monking, just for argument sakes prot vs heal. If Anet is going to make GW more balanced, in a sense of professions being able to do the jobs that they were supposed to at the start (this dependant on what games people played before GW, or what they think should be the traditional jobs of a specific profession), then it would make the game more interesting and encourage group play, almost to the point where it mimics WoW. |
Yes, Warriors do have some survival skills, but to be honest to be a tank you would need to use a lot of them.
One of the things that makes Guild Wars fun is it isn't a generic "tank'n'spank" combat style. When was the last time you have seen a movie set in the middle ages with a guy in armour standing in the middle of a field and balling up the enemies so they could hit them with a catapult?
There are only about two places where a tank even comes close to being needed, The Four Horsemen being the most prominent, and I am fairly certain it could be done with a group that is designed to split up, which you pretty much need anyway for Servents of Grenth.
But, again, this initially being a PvP game, tanking should not even really be in your Guild Wars vocabulary.
Gill Halendt
Regina, please, have the Live Team release some form of balance update now, otherwise your thread is gonna reach 100 pages of arguments about "skillful play" and "shadow form". We're getting there already. Pretty please with sugar on top and a cherry...? 