Next Skill Balance

I wasn't surprised at all to see the Aion exodus/return thing. I could have told you it would happen. S'what happens when the same mob make something new and flashy.
Most folk don't feel comfortable in the long term going from a f2p realm where they have status and knowledge to a p2p model in which they're noobs and pov stricken, just like everyone else. The security woes and unabashed grind of Aion would have helped to seal the deal, as both had already annoyed those migrating from GW to at least some extent.

IMHO, it's not that the players won't leave, or that they don't all have several other games lined up to take up their time with when they do leave, it's simply that aNet haven't given the playerbase sufficient incentive (Nerfs/lack thereof?) to say the fatal words..

"Oh you have to be kidding me!?!" "That's it, enough's enough.."

I'm not saying everyone is gonna do that, nor am I saying that a majority of players will, what I'm saying is that the fact that any players at all are going to be driven away from a game they love, by the company that made it, for the reason of trying to force people to play to an over-vocal portion (l33tboiz o yea!) of the playerbase's fiddle.

Which they won't.

It's a dangerous road aNet are treading with this one, as they've already outsmarted themselves, by giving us tools they never foresaw the utility of, leaving them for as long as they did, which is especially important when you consider the fact that a lot of the current playerbase is new, and has never seen GW without them, and then threatening to take them away, or change them so much they become unusable. This is all a result IMO, of a perfect example of a company that has built something far bigger than themselves, and no longer has the skill, or understanding of the thing, to look after it properly.

Regardless of what they do now, the amount of time they've done whatever it is that they've been doing besides releasing the update; the security issues, the amount of bugs of late, the servers lagging crazily everywhere, all of the different issues that have plagued players of late, are all adding up to a rather large mess for aNet over the next few months..

*sigh*
GW1 is 5 years old! (congrats ANet!)
There are always 'new' players coming in and joining...in any game you play.
Just remember the same threads here on GURU about Ursan/CoP/ and the new guy..SF.......ALWAYS plenty of QQ about someone's 'favorite' skill getting nerfed.
ANet has 'looked' after GW 'properly' for 5 years.
We are all still playing, and moaning about nerfs, and buffs.
The circle of life..yadda yadda yadda.
Suck it up, and go kill something. (INGAME of course!)

Well, although I sort of expected this, it's still quite amazing how "an update every 2 months" has stretched to around half a friggin year.

At this rate, Arena Net are not only putting the nails in the coffin of GW1, but also GW2 too. At this rate, I feel people won't want to have to go through s**t like this again with Arena Net, and to tell you the truth, I was looking forward to GW2, but just because of the lack of commitment A-Net have shown, I doubt I will end up interested at all.

A-Net need to get their priorities in order, and what they have to realise is, no matter how big a picture GW2 is, they need to properly support this game or they will end up with less and less people going on from GW1 to GW2. I will probably be on that list.

/slightly off topic rant and such.

I beg to differ. If the majority of old players I talk to, and this includes close friends who've played since beta and subsequently left due to constant stupidity in regards to skill balancing, say that aNet have fumbled since factions, do I believe them or you?

Again, this isn't right, because we aren't all still playing are we? Hell, even this thread has any number of ppl who are no longer playing. Why? Back to my first paragraph with you, sir!

If you read through my previous posts, in no place do I ever stoop to Q'ing the Q. I am merely expressing an opinion and voicing concerns that I have just as much right to speculate on as anyone else who has posted in this thread.

I will say it again and again who cares the damage is done u cant take the money with u, i think alot of the na sayers are the ones that didnt jump on the SF band wagon i know i didnt but man o man lol . We have GW2 to look forward too just buff up your hall and who cares what the rest do to try for there uber peenee and all that lmao........

Then the focus of the argument should be about invulnerability. Guys crying about their pretend items losing value is pathetic. Last time I checked, people couldn't use a physical manifestation of ecto to buy groceries. Now unscrupulously selling virtual ecto for real life money is another matter all together. That is valid. That is a legitimate reason to nerf SF and other farming builds into oblivion (Not that that is what I want mind you).

This update seriously doesn't scare me unless they only NERF and don't buff anything. But of course they will buff something to keep people around and something will be a little too strong and someone will make it a little too overused and thus the cycle begins again.

Next month maybe? Gogo SF farming!

Okay, I seriously dont get this whole 'running down GW1 is going to mean GW2 support is gunna suck' (to paraphrase) thing is coming from. While in some instances I can kind of see (wanting to retain player base), there are a couple of things I see blowing holes in that kinda statement

first off: the ones updating the game are a small portion of the ANet staff. nearly everyone else is working on GW2, and that is where the company focus is, so it will be more supported than GW1 currently is. That is also not to mention some of the stuff they have put into the game since the Live Team started (MOX, the Menagerie, Zquests and coins, costumes, overhaul of the PvP heros/hench issue, etc)

second: GW2 is being started from scratch, as they have wanted to implement more stuff and cant on the existing architecture. Also they are redoing how they do skills, so they hopefully wont have the same imba problems second time around

thirdly: and to me this is an important one, people are still going to get the game anyway. They will get the trial, or they will just buy it, even if they have given up on GW1 just to see what it is like.


I will say that they shouldn't have made the 'skill update every 2 months' comment (just like the 'new content every 4 months' comment) though they still have done pretty well for the limited workforce that they have. But GW1 is not a reflection of what GW2 is going to be like

How can you just assume that, based on the current track record? Last time I checked, quality control was an issue that generally affected the performance of entire companies, not just a single product.

I could think right now of a certain games manufacturer that releases beta's in the guise of finished product and insidiously uses the players as unofficial beta testers; I'm not going to name names but I'm sure most will know who I'm talking about. That's quality control affecting the entire company right there.

IMO, regardless of what is different in GW2, the management of it and the support quality it receives can certainly be seen as questionable given the current state of GW1, which until GW2 actually materializes, is still aNet's #1 baby.

Seems no update today... I guess they will wait until February... wow ANET loves to procrastinate. I think they are just too scared to kill Shadow Form.

If Anet nerfs farming altogether, I'll LOLOL aaaallllll the waaaaaay hoooooome....

..and there'll be a nice massive exodus of PvEers, leaving all farming area districts empty. I'll be sure to pull up a bowl of popcorn and uncheck local chats across all the high-end farming areas so I can LOLOL get my LOLOLOL on. Oh, I just can't wait any LOLonger! <333333333

I'm not sure why they *want* to nerf farming.

They may claim that it "ruins the game economy" but keep in mind that even with things like UWSC, ectos (one of the most important parts of the GW economy) never went below 4.3k or so.

Even with things like SoOSC, the price of BDS are still very high, especially for a q. 9.

It's almost like there are some titles that GW does not want us to obtain ... killing things like DSC and MQSC would make it unrealistic to really try to obtain those titles. Who wants to spend such a ridiculous amount of time in JQ (for example) in order to go from r1 to r12? After all, it still takes a very long amount of time to max those titles from start to finish, even when speed clearing. So why mess with it?

In theory I guess I can see the positive to nerf some things ... maybe if people couldn't "run" dungeons then maybe players would actually form parties more. I guess it remains to be seen. All I know is that I have a very, very difficult time finding parties for certain things (especially NM dungeons!). And the notable dungeon in this regard is Duncan; which is almost impossible to find a group for in NM... which people don't run anyway, so apparently it doesn't "force" people to form groups even if there are no runners available...

Farming builds are only effective in certain areas. SF and 600/Smite work in most areas of the game. Therefore, they are not farming builds. They can be used for farming (among other things), but they are not actually farming builds. They are "rape PvE" builds.

Now, if Anet talks about nerfing 55 or the various raptor farms out there, then you can say they want to nerf farming.

Next month indeed. Sadly, many guilds had prepared backup plans just in case Anet nerfed the broken shit in GvG this month. It looks like they wont.

Continue to rape face, MoI eles. I look forward to seeing you in basically every GvG until the skill update .

I wonder why people farm in this game. I have more than 4000 hours (not AFK) gameplay, and every single farm done (by myself) was testing builds, just that. I have everything I need in this game, EVERYTHING without farming, just playing the game for fun; I don't even have the first tier of the Kind Of A Big Deal title.

EDIT: I forgot I have an uber expensive Everlasting Tonic I can sell and buy 2 FoW armors, lol. The big problem is I don't like FoW armors and Torment weapons (expensive PURPLE weapons you cannot dye, come on). Please make a better job about expensive weapons/armors in GW2.

Nah, the March update will be that someone gets sick.

ETA of this update is around June/July time

I estimate this skill balance update arriving upon GW2's release, and then they'll simultaneously pull the plug on GW1 while posting up an official saying "Sorry folks, not enough /care tbh."

Hah, what am I talking about. Can't be march, that is when ANet planned their spring break vacation to Cancun with all the dough they are rolling in over the dwayna/grenth costumes. Can't be april either thats obviously for april fools day and easter... mabye may? or do they celebrate cinco de mayo as well?

Ok, let me try to describe the problem as I see it in another way:

Cockroaches = PvE Imbalance
Cupboards = Shadow Form
Closets = 600Smite
Storage containers = New Buffs

Anet "Ok, we have this big Cockroach infestation in our home! The problem isn't really the Cockroaches though, it's the dark hiding places in the home! Quick, yank out all the Cupboards! Damn, the Cockroaches are still here. Quick, tear out all the Closets! Oh wait, we have no place to store this stuff...Lets get some Storage Containers! Damn, we still have a Cockroach problem! Oh no! Storage Containers are dark places too! Get rid of them!"

It's classic scapegoating. PvE imbalance still exists because it's a design flaw in the game mechanics, not a result of 1, 2, or even a dozen or more builds! And your side keeps saying "well, yeah we know it won't fix it, but tearing out all the Cupboards and Closets is better than doing nothing.". No, it's not!

Look you guys want to keep accepting "busy work" as a fix, be my guest. I don't need perma or 600smite, I never played ursan, and I am more than fine plugging away with my lowly warrior. But the plain and simple fact is: All these updates are an exercise in futility! I say, forget PvE "balance", it's a myth. Let's all get dirty and play in the mud until GW2 arrives!

well, idk what to say for the absence of todays update, maybe typical is sufficient

imo they wont give out the skill update this month because next week will be too late due to the monthly

and the test crew is such a joke, you expect the things will go faster but its just the opposite

Nah, in March they'll be "super busy preparing for the 5th anniversary update". And then April will be "April fools!". So yeah, they probably won't start working on it until May... that is if they can finally get organized enough. Sooo at the earliest? Yup, June.

if this is what they're basing it on then damn.... whoever came up with that idea is just as bad as the guy(s) in charge of the ncsoft website(s)

Yes but I propose they just close all threads about this and MODERATE

I propose they actually leave this open so everyone goes to one place instead of over 9000 different threads

Also, I think Anet is so delayed that Valve is now impressed.

600/smite and SF in dungeons encourges a lazy player base. Instead of actually figured out what they are fighting and COUNTERING it they just use an over powered farming build, alt tab and surf facebook while someone 1 man, 2man or 3mans and ELITE area DESIGNED for 8 PEOPLE.

Your arguement is that without 600/smite I wont be able to do any dungeons quickly. So your skill level or lack off should determine what broken shit is left in the game? Everyone has access to the same, weapons, armor, heroes and skills plenty of people have figured out how to complete elite areas without abusing gimmicks. I would suggest you wake up, realize your permaform and 600/smite is gonna be nerfed and start to play other builds.

sometimes less is more

Please! don't say we have to wait another month! If it is then well, I don't know...this is ridiculous as it already is and to make us wait another month is beyond a joke!
The least they could do if that's true is to post a sizeable list of the skill changes that will occur next month so we can at least know what to expect and be (maybe wowed by it). Then when the real skill balance comes they surprise us with even more skill changes. Ok, yeah very unlikely...

Your metaphor has a good message (fixing SF alone will not balance the game), but a terrible execution, because SF is not the cupboard, it is the single biggest of the cockroaches. If you remove all of the cockroaches except it, you will still have a cockroach problem.

Which cockroach do you squish first? The big one or the small one?

Ah, but SF is not a cockroach, SF is just one of the dark places cockroaches like to hide, maybe the biggest dark place, but only that.

The cockroach infestation is PvE imbalance, which is tied to the game MECHANICS and has nothing to do with the builds. The builds just take advantage of the poor MECHANICS. Without fixing the MECHANICS, you can eliminate all the dark places (builds) you want, and the problem will still be there, still be just as bad.

With over 1,000 posts and almost 60,000 views and maybe a dozen or so posts like yours...I'd say you're better off ignoring this thread rather than expecting it to get out of your way.

The most broken of the broken mechanics is the ability to permanently maintain immunity to spells and attacks. That's exactly what SF is.

PvE imbalance is not a result of mechanics, per se, but a result of AI, mob setups, and skills (either alone or in certain combinations).

This...is....pathetic. Can't anet deliver ANYTHING anymore? What happened to so much as keeping us in the loop? By all accoutns the update SHOULD have been out,therefore it is up to them to give us some godamn information.

Rumor has it that Valve is trying to hire Regina...few have the willpower to stand so boldly in the face of hatred and spout off a dozen different excuses within 4 sentences.

So if perfect balancing isn't feasible (no, it isn't feasible that they completely rework the entire PvE section of the game), they should just throw out a godmode skill and let people have at? Your logic would baffle even the most hardcore schizophrenic.

I mean, it's like saying "We can't cure AIDS so f*ck it, don't make any medication that may help it".

But your medication doesn't help it. Your medication is all about making you feel good that you're doing something. That's all. It's not a cure, it's not an asparin, it's not a band-aid. It's pissin on my leg and trying to convince me it's raining.

Well, I have to say, as one who would try and defend ANet as much as possible, now I am starting to think why should I?

On the one hand they HAVE done a great job in general over the years and given us something that has lasted probably longer than their expectations in terms of product shelf life. But this whole situation surrounding the skill balance is now a joke. While I appreciate life in a development team can be extremely difficult at the best of times (I head a dev team in R/L so know what it's like), there is in place a structure to let the clients (aka the players) know precisely what the delay is. E.g. Customer Relations. Over the last month or so, we have seen a reasonably decent attempt to keep us in the loop surrounding the security issues and this was applauded (rightly so).

But the whole "mystery" surrounding what is going on with this update, the over-reliance (imho) in the Test Krewe shaping this balance (which scares me, as a pocket of "testers" should not be leading the dev team - it should be the other way round) and the total lack of information has made me walk away from the game now (popping back occasionally for friends).

ANet - you should be concerned right now. As this is another case of people losing faith in not only what you can deliver NOW but also in your flagship game on the horizon...... Guild Wars 2.

You have a structure. Use it more or lose more of us.

So you are saying that fixing a skill that makes you permanently invincible isn't a step towards balancing the game?

I find it really, REALLY amazing that some people are still trying to defend Anet on this issue. It is impossible to defend Anet on their balance ability and their balance policy. It is garbage, always has been garbage, and always will be garbage.

The 4 month delay would be hilarious if I wasn't already used to this company. As it stands it is just sad more than anything. Test Krewe will not change a thing and is only another excuse for Anet. You can defend the company on all their other talents, but if you attempt to defend them on balance you can be assured your argument is destroyed before you even thought of it.

Loool no skillbalance for over what? 3 months? Epic fail!

Look, I've tried multiple times. For some reason you don't get what I'm trying to say. These builds are scapegoats, fallguys, they are the symptoms of poor game mechanics, not the disease. No matter how many re-balances you try, you will keep getting builds that are overpowered. sometimes as much as SF, sometimes not as much. We've had 5 YEARS of skill rebalancing and it has NEVER stopped invincibuilds from cropping up, or "balanced" PvE. After 5 YEARS of trying the same thing, it is OBVIOUS that skill rebalancing will NEVER work!

Call me crazy or schizo...Albert Einstein once said "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results."