Botters in PvP (Preventive actions for RBR)

Sad. You can win with Grenth. You just have to be the better team by a wide margin. Giving up before the match starts doesn't get you wins.

2 of the 4 spawns have an auto-snare when you pick it up. Tough it requires some luck. (Ice freezes every second, if you don't get hit by the "checker" -the code which checks if you're standing still on ice- you won't get snared standing still on ice.

And what you're describing is exactly my point. mobbing.

It's ALL about the relics. Any person not working on a relic, is a useless person. And all of what you mentioned is stuff that MATTERS.

I'm not arguing that playing good will OBVIOUSLY help you further. But as long as you can't pick up the relic, you won't go anywhere.
There isn't enough snares (esp if you're grenth) and people rezz too fast to "deny" the enemy team getting close to the relic.

If you obs'ed as much as you said you did, you can not deny following statement:

Only 1 in every 50 relics got run "clean". Every single other relic got mobbed at some point in time. (Had atleast 3-4 people fighting for it)

And because that statement is true, following statement is also true:

With more than 3-4 people around the relic, the tema who can constistantly pick up the relic faster will get further, regardless of snares or shutdown. (If you can't pick it up, you can't move it to your base)

And because this statement is true, following statement is also true:

A bot will gain you significant advantage, because it WILL guarantee a significantly higher pick-up rate.

And because that statement is true, following statement is also true:

Bots will gain you a significant advantage in Snowball AT's. So much even that they matter more than skill, or other variables. (Dwayna/Grenth)

And this solely because every relic gets mobbed at some point in time, and the team who picks up faster always comes out as victor...

And observing this only confirms this statement. I've seen 2 botters go all they way to the enemy base, and STEAL a relic only 5 inches away from the Avatar, from 5 people because they managed to pick it up amongst themselves each time the other person got kd'd.

They stole the relic from the enemy base all the way to their base, solely because they could pick up faster. At some point, they defending team was actually spiking their snowballs. (To KD both of them at the same time) And this work, for about 5 seconds. then one of them kd'd the runner again, and they could once again go on their way. (They both used some forts and snowcones, which is how they managed to survived)

Given, around halfway (iceriver), one of them died, and got replaced by someone else.

Point being that as long as you can pick up faster than your opponent, you got a significant advantage...

@ Fril - I think you have a quality summary of the issues on the table.

@ Borat - The first relic always gets mobbed heavily. After that it varies with the number of fakes and how dominant one side or the other is. A person not on a relic is not necessarily useless; they can at times be more useful than someone defending at a relic.

Any match that is inconclusive tends to degenerate into 2v2s if there are not fakes. Large mobs around relics should be punished with DPS, and the players with DPS skills need to be very cognizant of which fights they should/should not be assisting.

There are more than enough snares to control enemy positioning. 4-5 copies of Icicles and knockdowns can make a large difference if used properly. You can't keep them away forever, but you can keep them away. A good team will make it difficult to cross the map from spawn.

Again, I'm not saying that a bot would be useless. I'm saying that a bot would not be nearly as helpful as you seem to think. Your statement (Bots confer more of an advantage than Dwayna/server) isn't logically true. The fact that a bot would confer an advantage does not imply the degree of advantage conferred. It may be true, but you haven't demonstrated it logically.

Your anecdote is interesting because it quite clearly demonstrates why you are failing. If you have five people at the base, and they are being resisted by two "botters", I have to ask - why did you lose the relic? The four people not carrying the relic should have ensured that the defenders didn't get anywhere near the relic. Your enemies should have been knocked down, had Snow Down The Shirt on them, and been hit with Icicles. If you do that, they can't knock the runner down to take the relic or get into position to capitalize on the knockdown.

Well we won with grenth vs everything except LR.
But Dwayna is still ftw. We played with 2-3 pve'ers who never snowballed before. We had 2 grenths, rest dwayna and we easily won the AT. Ofcourse we ended lucky on #2 in swiss (didnt know it back then) , so we got 3 dwayna in single elims. We even slaughtered LR with 10-4 that AT.

Then you're definitely doing something right. LR didn't lose often with Dwayna.

The 2 people vs the 5 didn't pop up out of thin air. They had more ppl there, but they died. The remaining 2 managed to get off a single kd and pick up the relic. From there on, all they had to do was hold on, as they would just pick up once their party member got kd'd.

I'm not saying they COULDN'T have done more. I yell more than enough at my guildies to use SDTS and spamm interrupts. But this doesn't change the fact that 2 ppl managed to outcap 5 ones...


I see your point, but I believe the opposite is true. You believe personal skill and "tactics" can overcome botting, I believe the opposite. So far, my theory stands stronger as reality implies.
I'm getting tired of this "no name calling", because you guys keep asking for "proof" and "examples", but we're not allowed to post proof or examples.

The main 2 guilds in question have been mentioned before, and I've tried my dropping experiment wiht both of them. (To see if they can outpick-up a bot) And they could.

And if you guys want proof, WHAT proof exactly do you want? Do you want a vid of someone picking up a relic I drop, how does that proof anything?
Then I got to proof I'm botting. How do I proof I am botting, aside from making my bot public (Which is the plan?).

I'm really sorry for your you Martin, you seem like a nice guy, but if your guild can out pick-up a bot, then they are botting themselves. There's nothing more to it...

Depends on the person competing with a bot, or using one.
If you can pickup something faster then a bot:

• Then the player using a bot will not have an advantage.
• If you wanna use a bot, then it will give you a disadvantage.

You assume that everyone is worse then a bot, wich is not true




In a way bots make you better, they are unfair but they make a fair player better. You learn to play better from playing against something that is better, I used to play CS alot and when aimbots "took over" I learned to be better and/or outsmart the bots.

I do agree that bots shouldn't be here or in any other game because it is unfair.

Here is an idea, make a bot/macro to counter a person running an interrupt bot. Wich should check if anyone is casting an interrupt, and if someone is using an interrupt then it should cancel the skill that you are using. Wait a minute..... i'm here to play Guild Wars not Bot Wars.

People should not be competing with bots, and therefore they, Anet, should do something about it, or I should say do more to protect the fair players.

Remember when using a bot in GW, it would be like performance-enhancing drugs in any physical sport like cycling, boxing, American Football, etc... when caught using it you will be suspended/banned.

Dude, you assume alot of things. I used to outpick people using "pickit" in D2 (Diablo 2). It is possible to be faster then a bot, it's not because you aren't faster then a bot that nobody is.

I can frigin tap the same key with 1 finger 7 times per second and I know people who can do it faster. I play stepmania, I call it DDR for fingers.

I feel like I have to baby-sit this thread with all the amount of untought trough posts. (No offensive)
Luckily for me, I'm willing to do that.

You ASSUME a player CAN outplay a bot. It can't. The intire point of a bot is to PLAY BETTER. I mean, would footballers play with football shoes if it made them worse? No, they wouldn't. They are DESIGNED to increase your play.

With bots, you don't even have a remote chance:

Server Client packet transfer for dummies:

Client sends packet to server to KD runner.
Server KD's runner.
Server sends packet to client runner is KD'd.
Player observers client, and imputs "pick up" key
Client sends pick up packet to server
Server allows client to pick up.

This is pretty much how it works. Now if you could write a script, that would autoreply every packet that read:"Runner is KD'd" with a packet "Pick up relic" it would look like this:

Server KD's runner.
Server sends packet to client runner is KD'd.
-Bot instantly, replies -Within milliseconds *Depends how fast your PC can process it*
Client sends pick ip packet
Server allows client to pick up.

The latter is OBVIOUSLY going to be alot faster. Not only does it take away the need for the player to input any keys, he can also focus on doing other tasks at hand...

EDIT: But if you don't believe me, I am willing to test it. Add me in-game: Borat on Monk
I am kindly willing to do some flag wars in GToB. We keep dropping the flag, and whoever picks it up first gets payed 5 zkeys by the other guy.

You assume a player can't outplay a bot. The entire point of a bot is to play better? you mean play unfair by automating things.
Also bad point you are making with the football shoes, they are made to increase grip so you wouldn't slip, fall, etc... the fact is that they aren't illegal, and that they are a requirement. I've been in a soccer team, and I forgot to bring my football shoes once and I wasn't allowed on the field with normal running shoes.

You underestimate people.



I know what packet sending is.

You forgot some variables:

• Location, location, location...
• Internet connection speed.
• Delays.

I don't believe that everyone is slower then a bot.

I'm not willing to test that because it can get you and me banned. Believe it or not but if you or me would use a bot and one of us accept zkeys, then both of us can get banned, even the one not using a bot.
And i'm 100% sure that I won't risk my account.

And how would you proof it? by using a bot and see if i'm faster? If I would be faster, then how would you know i'm not using a pickup bot? The only way to proof it is if we were sitting next to eachother so we could see the other persons screen and/or check their computer to see if there is a bot active on it. Also we would need to use the exact same computer setup, same lenght of cables, etc... and eliminate any other possible variables.
And even then we could still argue about things that might affect... speed.

I do agree that it does affect many people and that it is a problem and that it should be taken care off.

All this caring about rollerbeetle races, since when did anyone ever look at the rollerbeetle highscore list and think "wow those guys really race hard, sure must be skilled".

Same goes for snowball matches, its all just some minigame thata small group of people take way too seriously, kinda like playing zelda purely for the fishing.

Botting is a problem in GW, infact recently theres been lots of mods aswel as bots for GvG but i never thought anyone would be complaining about hacks for roller beetle races.

The actual "reality" you've been exposing so far doesn't mean that your theory stands stronger, as you cannot show us that the people you're talking about are not skilled (and have better tactics for snowball AT) both at RBR and snowball AT. Why can't people be consistently and reliably be as good as we've seen? (I'm not saying that no one is botting but I'm not convinced either that botting is as damaging as you seem to imply) I remember seeing Yuri constantly improving its method for RBR, and maybe as you're saying it was done to improve a bot, but I can't simply believe your word (especially when you're saying things like the last bit in the above, so far all you've done is say "this is what I saw, believe me guys, it was exactly like that, and HENCE it can only be interpreted that way").

Except those aren't variables. Anyone with half a brain can tell you that your location and internet speed aren't even slightly variable whether you run a bot or not. You've just discovered constants, buddy, and you may treat them as irrelevant.


Then you believe wrong. FACT: A pickup bot can pick up a present well before you as a player even recognizes it's dropped. Even if you mash your nearest item and spacebar keys the likelihood of your action coinciding with the millisecond or two it takes the opposing bot to process is so slim as to be negligible. The difference between your ping and your oppositions is something of a deciding factor, but for all theorycrafting purposes it should be assumed that the two are equal.

I don't believe that most of the RBR high scorers use bots (snowball is a different story in some cases), but denying the existence, and the capability of these things is just plain RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing stupid.

Lol, those aren't variables?

• We all live in the same place with the same connection speed?
• Your internet connection speed doesn't differ from mine?
• Your internet connection speed is always the same?
• Your ping doesn't change?
• If I live in Europe and you live in Asia and we connect to the same server it won't make a difference in how fast we recieve packets?
• If we are sending packets it won't make a difference on when the packet arrives depending on where we live?

If those were constants:

• Everyone would have the same amount of lag.
• Disconnect on the exact same moment.
• We would all have the exact same ping.

My physical and mental state even matter if you wanna go extreme. And thats a variable because nobody has the exact same physical and mental state.

They are not irrelevant.

You can't proof to me that what I believe is wrong just as I can't proof to you that you are wrong.

And for accurate theorycrafting purposes you should assume that they are not equal because it "IS something of a DECIDING factor".

Lol, where did I deny the existence and capability that they don't exist?

That was me acknowledging that they do exist.

And that's me acknowledging the capability.

I just say it doesn't affect everyone, and that some people are indeed faster than bots.

You're ignorant, I'm sorry, but you are...

Worst thing is, you're one of those ignorant people, who don't even want to be thaught. I'm willing to PROOVE to you you're not better than a bot, nor is anyone, but then you're crawling back into your cave under the excuse of "Anet will ban me if I team up with you".

Go play some more guild wars from you batcave, sir. Im tired of arguing with "dumb" people.

Except you originally quoted your 'variables' in reply to Borat stating that running a bot is faster than not running one for menial activities like picking presents up. No one else's location or ping has any relevance to you running a bot or not. Given the context that you originally quoted, those factors were constant, you can't just invent a new situation now.

Just throwing around some really basic numbers here, but how fast do you think you can react to seeing a present on the ground? 250ms is a pretty average human reaction time. Factor in the delay in actually pressing the buttons and you're looking at a good 300ms or so from the time the present drops until you pick it up. Bots don't have reflexes buddy. I could create some basic pseudocode for a simple pickup bot, and I would imagine that on most modern PCs you're looking at perhaps 5ms processing time, perhaps as much as 10ms if you really wanted to be pedantic. Draw your own conclusion.

How many times do you think you can mash a button or two in one second? Without rebinding a bunch of keys to target nearest item and execute action, you're looking at probably 8 hits per second, and that's if you're a pretty twitchy RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO. So even if you are mashing on those buttons, on average you're hitting them once every 125ms. The likelihood of one of those keypresses landing within that 5-10ms window (at most) that a bot requires to operate is slim at best.

You may be fast, but don't make the mistake of thinking you're faster than a bot.

Your argument is that some humans are faster than bots. You only want one independent variable for this purpose - namely whether a given person is running a bot, or they are not. For this purpose you simply assume that your own ping differs not, whether you are running a bot or you aren't. Comparing two different people's connections was a sidetrack from that, in an attempt to point out that one persons ping advantage may be enough to beat another person's bot. It is a deciding factor - just in a more advanced and completely different situation. Nice try though.

The final paragraph of my initial post was not aimed at you directly, it was aimed at (quite obviously) the people who were disputing the existence of such bots.

Miss Who remembers Xi?[dth] nex that is permabanned for:
- rbr cheating
-being lame with other peoples property
-playing rr for commandertitle 24/7 (even when he was in the shower and sleeping and i never knew that u can at same time take a shower/drive a car and play gw at same time)
- and some guy (r11skillthing) from THAT guild who told me this when I was doing nothing in id 1 ha when I asked what the person got banned for (summed up above)

I'll leave it to the hard boys now!!!!

Keep it civil, folks. Truthfully there's not much reason for me to allow this thread to go much further, since it's just Killed arguing with everyone.

Don't give me another reason to delete all this.

I have 2 suggestions on how you can prove your points.

- @killed u man: get that bot, buy a new proph account, bot it to the top 100 in the rbr on the upcoming event. Show entry in ladder. Give the greased lightning to player #101 on the ladder.
- @Martin Alvito: get a webcam and broadcast/youtube upload your rbr sessions from the upcoming event with your keyboard and monitor visible.

I am not in possession of the RBR bot, otherwise I would have just made it public along with this thread.

Let's be clear on what I'm saying. I'm saying that pickups aren't everything. Would such a bot confer an advantage? Absolutely. I'd be thrilled to be able to pick up anything in a match on 206 servers.

But that isn't all there is to it. The [MoO] guys were brutally effective not just because they could scoop. They were effective because they also antiicpated opponents' actions and took the proper countermeasures. That precision was machine-like, but not in the way that a bot can produce. They always had their players actively looking for ways to disrupt enemy movement, and they consistently used knockdowns and snares properly to disrupt attempts to steal a gift. I find scripting that level of decision-making unlikely.

A pickup bot would enable you to retain possession of a gift more often, but it can't save you from the tactics fails that ultimately cost you gifts. I recall stalemating a lot of 2v2s against players that you claim bot; that would have been impossible if they were botting and the bot were as decisive as you claim.

Why are you so hell bent on proving individual cases? Let ANet sort that out. If you really want to prove that someone bots, you need video evidence of impossible behavior. In the previous thread, you claimed that a dodge bot could tell whether or not a Hidden Rock was being thrown and choose to drop dodge accordingly. So put it to the test. They can't see who on your team Rocks up at match start, right? So have only half of the players on the team Rock up, then see whether or not the dodge bot can identify the players with Rock and dodge only those snowballs.

We know that it's impossible for a human to discriminate between the players with Rocks and the players without under those conditions. But the bot can't help itself; it knows and reacts accordingly. If you observe botlike behavior that cannot be produced by a human, you just found a botter.

We're quibbling over what a human can and cannot do. I see the same behaviors you observe and don't see bots, because I saw humans produce that behavior in the days before bots. Sometimes I have seen things that didn't appear possible during a match, but when I looked at the situation with Obs it became apparent that someone wasn't standing where they thought they were.

I think your plan of popularizing the bots is probably the best course of action if you want to see something done.

- There's a pretty significant cost there. I'd rather not have everyone doing exactly what I do, thanks.
- It still wouldn't be conclusive. For all you know, the keyboard isn't plugged in and a bot is playing the run. I'm consistent enough that any minor discrepancies could be blamed on lag.

Cleaned the thread, again. Keep it on topic, keep it civil. Final warning.

I think many people in this thread are severely understating the current situation.

These screenshots were posted on a certain qq website just yesterday:

You cannot post names, regardless of the reason for posting them.

(blurred names)





If this isn't a prime example of the current state Guild Wars and coding are to each other, I don't know what else to say.

All the information is available at this time to code bots that act strategically and play as "perfectly" as even remotely imaginably possible.

There seems to be the common misperception of bots as something repetitive, unintelligent and bad at the game. This is what macros are, not properly coded bots.
Bots can do anything you can imagine to optimize their gameplay.
There are virtually no limits in terms of how good you can get them to play, except maybe processing power but that should not even matter because there are just not enough variables the bot has to account for, especially with the current hardware.

Okay first of all killed u man or borat whatever you are called why do u come here talking about bots and macros in snowball when you played in a guild where people used macros thats kinda sad.

And i think we never lost to [ban] this year except once when we resigned.

And thanks to Martin for nice posts.

That's not a bot, it's just an addon. Certainly it's an unfair advantage, but it doesn't play the game for you like the bots mentioned in this thread.

Certainly true, but look at it! It has all the info to play the game for you perfectly.

Also AFAIK from what I experienced from this "addon", it is integrated into a "modded" version of Guild Wars that helps you play the game by interrupting skills (works with any build) and it has an integrated infuse bot that will detect incoming spikes by estimating the damage incoming to any target at any time and calculating according to your ping when exactly to start casting infuse to hit it just about at the right time to make the target survive and get the most out of the infuse (basically it tracks all skill casts, estimating attributes based on previous dmg etc, and as such can find the critical time when a target would be close to dying, and adapt based on that). Ofc taking into account own hp/mana/distance to the target etc.
It doesn't prevent you from playing normally, you can lock the bot on specific targets, or disable it altogether.
It also has a helper for perfect instantaneous weapon swapping so for example you can run a warrior and switch to a bow automatically to automatically dshot skills that you can choose ingame that are important enough to dshot.
It has many other features but you'd have to ask the tool's maker.

the current version also does swap your shield to the right +10 armor VS xx damage instantly on any incoming damage (it tracks casting and attack speeds) and it cancels your cast optionally against certain interrupt skills.

I really hope Martin/Regina or some significant people of ArenaNet will take a look at this embarassing thread. Further, they should test/observe me while playing Snowball/RBR to prove that you're lying. I'm not even that good as u want to make other people believe to.

Show me a bot that is able to reach the RBR top10, I'd love to see them in action. You can't, cuz it's impossible.

Bots do exist in PvP and they really destroy the game and should get banned as often as possible. Anyways, no one has time for creating bots while the events are running, because all of them are competive players that want to learn/improve their skill on the track. Don't tell me about "private servers" now, you wouldnt have seen our little improvements from event to event.
Even the whole Top100 requirements increased from event to event.

I do know u wont listen to me, u neither do to some1 else in this thread, but somewhen you willl get better and probably you will understand what we are talking about. gl in that.

^ This is essentially why spike bots can be so good. If you get 4 well-programmed spike bots on a team, you can be damn well sure that someone will get raped.

It's just the way of GW now. People will continue to bot until Anet does something about it. They didn't do anything to JQ or FA bots, they didn't do anything to RR bots, they didn't do anything to PvE bots or festival event bots, and now they're not doing anything to GvG bots.

Welcome to the new GW. It's rather old.

In reply to Martin:

You again seem to have misunderstood what I'm trying to say. I never claimed that there are bots that play Snowball FOR you. (Tough there are, but I can't post link :P)

I'm saying that there are bots who READ incomming packets and reply said packets with a pick-up one.

For some reason, you keep going on about: "Bots can't do strategy", and this and that. I agree. A bot does not reason, it's AI. But it doesn't need.

Just as with RBR, you do NOT need an stand alone script which does everything for you. All you need is a bot which takes care of all the technique aspects of said event/format.

The interrupt bot, for example, doesn't know how to run flags (if needed), nor how to move, but it DOES know how to interrupt 1/4 second spells.

So when you're talking that you see teams which I acuse of botting using relativly good tactics, it doesn't automaticly mean they are not botting. Botting ALLOWS you to EMPLOY BETTER TACTICS, because you don't have to camp the runner waiting for a pick-up anymore. The same reason cookie cutter builds in HA or GvG allow for better strategy. This is one of the main reason sinsplit was so effective. The gameplay itself gets reduced to nothing, so U can focus your brainpower on strategy.

That experiment you're talking about is something I DID do, I just didn't cam it because I was on a shitty pc (7-15 FPS, go!). Anyways, I did it exactly like you said: I hidden rock up out of range, Yuri DnD'd it. I went out of range but DIDN'T Hidden rock, and he ignored the snowball. I did this about 5-6 times. (So of each hidden rock, and regular) Each time, the KD'ing snowball gets dodged, the non-KD'ing doesn't.

YES, I admit, this, and also the fact he DnD's when surrounded by 6 enemy's (So when it would be really dumb to DnD) COULD be all concidence. As a matter of fact, the chances of him "dodging" the right snowball is exactly 50%. Concidering I've thrown +-15 snowballs, the chances of him DnD'ing ONLY the KD'ing snowballs is (1/2)^15. So either he's REALLY lucky, or there's something more going on. I believe the latter.


Prooving these bots exist and are getting used can only be proven by showing them examples. If I say Bspam is overpowered, that's a loose statement, and might or might not be true. If I say Bspam is overpowered, and say that every top guild is getting destroyed by xxx PvE guild, than I have "proof", as in the reality supports my theory. There is no other way of showing someone is botting, as you said yourself, besides seemingly impossible/inhuman behaviour.

Knowing the difference between a KD'ing and non-KD'ing snowball, aswell as DnD regardless of how the enemy team is set-up is that behaviour, for me personally. I then simply continued that train of thought based on the fact that all the people on that guild, are also the ones who get redicilously high scores in RBR. So I'm not making "loose accusations", there definatly is some logic behind them...

According to my extensive research (about 15 minutes on the interweb), these bots have been around for a long, long time. Like years.

Doubt they're going to do anything just because someone's posted yet another thread about it.

I'm not necessarily saying they don't want to do anything about it, I'm saying they're not able to do anything about it.

I think this is merely related to the fact the better ones of those bots have not been released publicly until now. But at this time, it is really starting to become a widespread issue.

There are things they could do, I just doubt they have the resources to actually do them. Hell, half the GvG botters in-game have posted a character name they use to bot on......it really wouldn't be that hard to look up.....

Agreed wholeheartedly. Although I don't know that it's as widespread as some would think.
Yeah. Seems like it would a major redesign of several major features like the game client, packet transmission, etc.

This. And I believe, in this line of thought, if only a "elite" few get a shot a rewards through the aid of programs, because the devs are too lazy/incompetent to do anything about it, then EVERYONE should.

On January 29, right before the Wintersday event starts, the pick-up bot will be made public. I'm only abiding by Anet's rules, which is to "keep PvP fair". By having some people using bots, and them not replying to this issue, we can only conclude they don't mind. Therefor, everyone should get an equal shot at winning snowball AT's.

If they don't believe it's that serious of an issue, we'll make it one...

The issue is that players do not want to compete with bots. So, have separate servers for those who bot go to the bot server and those who want to go to a secure no botting server.

How do you plan on broadcasting this to everyone?

I never said I, myself, will make it public. (And if I did, I meant, it will be, by a thrid party) But I gues through the aid of forums, PM to whoever wants it, or maybe even trial-in game acounts in GToB. (Tough I don't know if trial acounts can use all-chat and/or are still available)

Bear in mind, this is the absolute last resort. But if you had to pick the lesser of 2 evils, which one would it be:

-> A Holiday event were 2-3 botting guilds steal everyone rewards
-> A Holiday even were everyone (Or the people who engage in community works -forums, etc) has an equal chance, albeit with bots?

-EDIT-

So it is possible that there are guilds of bots dominating the rankings? If thats the case how is anyone willing to compete with bots? just think that there are thousands of permutations of skills in a build and the bots already have the best set. Its kinda like Poker the bots have the best set of the house how is anyone going to compete in the rankings?

Instead of releasing the code, what about this (since you have the code we'll assume you can execute it and bot; oh and change #101 to "the person at the bottom of the list" just to be consistent with the fact that you believe top RBRers are botting):

I would assume what your saying killed is that dth if I am not mistaken as a guild is somewhat dominating the top 100 in RBR by the possibility of botting?

I can tell you this much, it isint the case in the slightest, in fact if you knew most of the top 10 or 20 RBR racers they practically all come from various guilds, baring one who has a couple in there but that doesent mean a thing.

Pol

Edit; As others have said here ladies and gents try and keep things to a civil conversation otherwise the moderators will close this thread.