Preliminary Skill Update Notes

Regina Buenaobra

Regina Buenaobra

ArenaNet

Join Date: Apr 2008

Me/

Hi, everyone. I've posted the preliminary skill update notes on the wiki. These changes are not final, and are subject to change.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiki
Preliminary Skill Update Notes – 21 January 2009

While we continue a larger playbalance project that includes drastic changes to Shadow Form, we believe it is important to release a small skill balance to address a few other pressing issues. Because this update will be released shortly before a Monthly Automated Tournament, we want to provide a preview of the changes that are under consideration. This is a preliminary list, and it is likely there will be some changes before the update goes Live.

The areas we are trying to address are:

* Ranged Spike/Damage in GvG
* Party Wide Healing in GvG
* Blood Spike in PvP
* Individual Problem Skills

In addition to these skill changes, we think this is a good time to update some of the GvG party restrictions to make participation a little easier. The revised restrictions, which we hope to have in effect for the upcoming Monthly Automated Tournament, will be as follows:

* Ladder Play:

1. Requires 2 guild members, including a guild officer as the party leader.
2. Henchmen are restricted to a maximum of 4.

* Daily Automated Tournaments:

1. Requires 2 guild members who have been in your guild for at least 7 days. The party leader must be a guild officer.
2. Henchmen are restricted to a maximum of 4.
3. All party members must be registered with Tolkano.

* Monthly Automated Tournaments:

1. Requires 4 guild members who have been in your guild for at least 7 days. The party leader must be a guild officer.
2. All players in the party must be members of your guild.
3. Henchmen are restricted to a maximum of 2.
4. All party members must be registered with Tolkano.

* Removed Balthazar faction penalty for new guild members

Please note: These changes have NOT all been implemented yet, and there is some chance that we will not be able to update the MAT restrictions before the tournament. We'll let you know what we can as soon as possible.
Ranged Spike/Damage in GvG

In GvG especially, Glass Arrows Rangers and other bow spike builds are a little too effective. We are exploring a few different approaches to addressing this but we need to perform additional playtests before settling on a specific set of changes. It is likely that a number of bow attack skills, especially those with fast activation times will be altered in some way.

Part of what makes these ranged teams overpowered is their survivability, typically enabled by Paragons. So in addition, we're revising "Stand Your Ground!" (PvP) so that the effect ends when a character attacks. ("Shout. For 5...17...20 seconds, all party members within earshot receive +24 armor when not moving. Ends on a party member if that party member attacks.") This skill will be unchanged in PvE.
Party Wide Healing in GvG

We believe that spiking, disruption/control and pressure damage should all have a role to play in GW PvP. Currently, pressure damage tends to be outshined by party healing in GvG. There are a couple of skills that we wanted to alter to bring this into greater balance.

Recuperation (PvP) will no longer provide health regeneration to characters who are above 75% health. This lets it remove some pressure damage but not counteract it entirely. This change will only affect PvP.

Mending Refrain will be split into PvP and PvE versions. The PvE version will be unchanged. The PvP version will only target the caster, effectively removing this skill as a party healing option in PvP.
Blood Spike in PvP

We've decided to make two changes to address current issues with Blood Spike.

First, and most dramatically, we're changing several defensive skills to work against life stealing. (They will continue to work against normal damage as well.) The skills we're looking at are: Reversal of Fortune, Life Sheath, Shielding Hands, Vengeful Weapon, Weapon of Remedy, and Union.

Second, we're adjusting the lead-in Blood Spike skills: Vampiric Swarm will be altered so that there is no delay between the spell being cast and the first target losing health. (This delay current causes the life-stealing from Vampiric Swarm to happen at about the same time as the life-stealing from the follow-up spike skill, making it unrealistic to react to.) Lifebane Strike and Shadow Strike will have their recharges increased from 8 to 15 in order to decrease the frequency of spikes.
Individual Problem Skills

We're changing Ebon Dust Aura to only trigger from melee attacks. This skill will no longer be useful for ranged blind spamming.

For Illusion of Pain, we're adjusting some numbers to make the skill more vulnerable to disruption and more demanding to use effectively: Increasing cast time to 2. Lowering duration to 8. Lowering recharge to 5. Decreasing healing to match the shorter duration (45...129...150).

Along similar lines, we're making some numerical tweaks to Mirror of Ice to make it more vulnerable to disruption, raising the energy cost to 15 or 25 and the cast time to 2.

We're also evaluating potential changes to Cultist's Fervor (increased energy cost, increased recharge, and/or decreased effect). These changes need more testing. We have not yet decided whether or not to proceed with them.

zelgadissan

zelgadissan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2008

The Warrior Priests [WP]

Me/Rt

Skill summary for those who cba to read:

- Bow attacks with activation times likely to be hit
- "Stand Your Ground" (PvP) to end on attack
- Recuperation (PvP) does not affect people over 75% health
- Mending Refrain (PvP) to affect caster only
- BIG THING - Reversal of Fortune, Life Sheath, Shielding Hands, Vengeful Weapon, Weapon of Remedy, and Union likely to work against life stealing
- Vampiric Swarm to hit instantly instead of delay to avoid the follow up hit at the same time
- Lifebane Strike and Shadow Strike to 15r
- Ebon Dust Aura only to work on melee attacks
- Illusion of Pain to 2c, 5r, duration of 8, lowering the heal
- Mirror of Ice to have energy raised (15e or 25e) and 2c
- looking into Cultist's Fervor as well

Thanks for the update Regina.

End

End

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2008

Rubbing Potassium on water fountains.

LF guild that teaches MTSC (did it long ago before gw2 came out and I quit...but I barely remember)

N/A

Quote:
Originally Posted by zelgadissan View Post
- BIG THING - Reversal of Fortune, Life Sheath, Shielding Hands, Vengeful Weapon, Weapon of Remedy, and Union likely to work against life stealing
seems that this will apply to both PvE and PvP(or at least it says nothing baout it being PvP only whereas most do)...while its not a big deal in PvE it's still important to note...

MisterB

MisterB

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2005

Planet Earth, Sol system, Milky Way galaxy

[ban]

W/

Thanks for posting.

Echo Mending(Mending Refrain) is too strong. I laughed.

God_Hand

God_Hand

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2008

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by zelgadissan View Post
- Illusion of Pain to 2c, 5r, duration of 8, lowering the heal
If ANet thinks that this will be enough to fix the skill, they've got another thing coming.

This really worries me; I'm now under the assumption that ANet has absolutely no idea what they're doing.

isildorbiafra

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2007

The Netherlands

W/

Was about time those pesky mesmers got hit with the nerf bat. To the above poster....2 second cast time allows for some serious interruption.

The Arching Healer

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2006

Super Kaon Action Team [SuKa]

Quote:
Originally Posted by God_Hand View Post
If ANet thinks that this will be enough to fix the skill, they've got another thing coming.

This really worries me; I'm now under the assumption that ANet has absolutely no idea what they're doing.
Even worse people can dshot it now.

kvndoom

kvndoom

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

Communistwealth of Virginia

Uninstalled

W/Mo

Not bad. I'd still love to see hexes toned down a bit, especially shutdown stuff with low recharges.

lemming

lemming

The Hotshot

Join Date: May 2006

Honolulu

International District [id???]

It won't matter if prot is being updated to work against life stealing, but did nobody realize that current bloodspikes don't use Shadow Strike?

fowlero

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

England, UK

We Are The One And Only [rR]

Quote:
Originally Posted by lemming View Post
It won't matter if prot is being updated to work against life stealing, but did nobody realize that current bloodspikes don't use Shadow Strike?
Except for the part where they do use it.

Wondering as someone in ally said, will LS/RoF now trigger off life steal from weapons instead of weapon damage? Or is vamp after damage?

Riot Narita

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiki
We're changing Ebon Dust Aura to only trigger from melee attacks. This skill will no longer be useful for ranged blind spamming.
Nooooooooooooooooooooo ;_;

WTB PvE/PvP split for EDA

Karate Jesus

Karate Jesus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2008

Texas

Reign of Judgment [RoJ]

Me/

Awww, I beat your post Regina

I'm excited about the LS/RoF stuff. If there's no PvE/PvP split on that, it's going to be so OP and amazing.

However, 2 of my favorite shitter FA builds will feel the wrath of this.....which sucks.

Yelling @ Cats

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by God_Hand View Post
If ANet thinks that this will be enough to fix the skill, they've got another thing coming.

This really worries me; I'm now under the assumption that ANet has absolutely no idea what they're doing.
You're just now coming to this realization?

lemming

lemming

The Hotshot

Join Date: May 2006

Honolulu

International District [id???]

Quote:
Originally Posted by fowlero View Post
Except for the part where they do use it.

Wondering as someone in ally said, will LS/RoF now trigger off life steal from weapons instead of weapon damage? Or is vamp after damage?
My mistake then; I was under the assumption that Unholy Feast was still the preferred fourth spike skill.

The point I was trying to get at remains, though - why that particular nerf at this point? If enabling prot against life stealing doesn't work, it's not a fix that will do anything.

zelgadissan

zelgadissan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2008

The Warrior Priests [WP]

Me/Rt

While they're messing with Mirror of Ice, if they're not going to change the functionality, it'd be appreciated if they actually made it affected by armor since it's, you know, elemental damage.

I'm also very curious on the prot changes with relation to vampiric mods as well.

fowlero

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

England, UK

We Are The One And Only [rR]

Quote:
Originally Posted by lemming View Post
My mistake then; I was under the assumption that Unholy Feast was still the preferred fourth spike skill.
Yeah, they never really get to try bodyblock your res shrine as most games end up finishing after the first wipe or teams just split them. So yeah they started taking it instead.

That or distortion which makes things fecking annoying.

ousbique

ousbique

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2006

France :)

Rage Team [rT]

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Arching Healer View Post
Even worse people can dshot it now.
Mmh maybe magebane it, but with distorsion in the build, dishot it will be more difficult.

Also Me/N "Polly" use Vampiric Spirit which is 2c too.

I think IoP isn't dead...

Karate Jesus

Karate Jesus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2008

Texas

Reign of Judgment [RoJ]

Me/

Quote:
Originally Posted by ousbique View Post
Mmh maybe magebane it, but with distorsion in the build, dishot it will be more difficult.

Also Me/N "Polly" use Vampiric Spirit which is 2c too.

I think IoP isn't dead...
It shouldn't be dead. Tbh, what they did with IoP was smart. They duration gives people the ability to kite and ruin the recast of it and the increased cast time makes Mesmers invest into FC to take it.

Imo, it was a smart move. It'll still be used (because 30dps from a hex is still OP).

Sarevok Thordin

Sarevok Thordin

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

Scotland

W/N

"We're changing Ebon Dust Aura to only trigger from melee attacks. This skill will no longer be useful for ranged blind spamming."

THANK THE LORD!

Martin Alvito

Martin Alvito

Older Than God (1)

Join Date: Aug 2006

Clan Dethryche [dth]

I have to admit that I expected something much more ambitious.

You're hitting Ranger spike and the OP blood spike. You're doing something to rein in two OP buffs (Mirror of Ice and Illusion of Pain). You're fixing the worst skill in Codex and you're thinking about doing something to a third OP buff (Cultist's Fervor).

That's all?

FoxBat

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Amazon Basin [AB]

Mo/Me

You leet guilds could care less, but the 2 member thing for ladder play is a huge improvement for casual bottom feeders and people screwing around in byob. Hope to see some more ladder activity.

Yelling @ Cats

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Alvito View Post
I have to admit that I expected something much more ambitious.

You're hitting Ranger spike and the OP blood spike. You're doing something to rein in two OP buffs (Mirror of Ice and Illusion of Pain). You're fixing the worst skill in Codex and you're thinking about doing something to a third OP buff (Cultist's Fervor).

That's all?
Careful, might force them into delaying it until September.

Hollygen

Hollygen

Core Guru

Join Date: Feb 2007

UK

Blinkie Ponie Armie [bpa]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Alvito View Post
I have to admit that I expected something much more ambitious.

You're hitting Ranger spike and the OP blood spike. You're doing something to rein in two OP buffs (Mirror of Ice and Illusion of Pain). You're fixing the worst skill in Codex and you're thinking about doing something to a third OP buff (Cultist's Fervor).

That's all?
So you missed the bit that started
Quote:
While we continue a larger playbalance project ...
So no, that's not all. Just all for the moment to hit some of the issues whilst others are still being hammered out

Dre

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

Belgium

Dutch Doom Brigade

W/

I don't see SF anywhere in that list ^^

jimbo32

jimbo32

Site Contributor

Join Date: Aug 2008

Canada

Gentlemens Club [GC]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Alvito View Post
I have to admit that I expected something much more ambitious.

You're hitting Ranger spike and the OP blood spike. You're doing something to rein in two OP buffs (Mirror of Ice and Illusion of Pain). You're fixing the worst skill in Codex and you're thinking about doing something to a third OP buff (Cultist's Fervor).

That's all?
This part seems fairly clear to me:

Quote:
While we continue a larger playbalance project that includes drastic changes to Shadow Form, we believe it is important to release a small skill balance to address a few other pressing issues.

X Ghoul

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2009

IGN: X Ghoul

Mega M O R P H I N Power Ranger [pR]

Rt/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra View Post
Along similar lines, we're making some numerical tweaks to Mirror of Ice to make it more vulnerable to disruption, raising the energy cost to 15 or 25 and the cast time to 2.
Lol'd at this and pce out rspike >.>'

HawkofStorms

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

EDA change will help with Codex balance.

I do hope that's not everything though.

Yelling @ Cats

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dre View Post
I don't see SF anywhere in that list ^^
I don't see SF used much in PvP

Dre

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

Belgium

Dutch Doom Brigade

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yelling @ Cats View Post
I don't see SF used much in PvP
what's wrong with a small update?

lutz

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

Battery Powered Best Friends [Vibe]

Me/

Quote:
Originally Posted by God_Hand View Post
If ANet thinks that this will be enough to fix the skill, they've got another thing coming.

This really worries me; I'm now under the assumption that ANet has absolutely no idea what they're doing.
Trust me, it's much, much more in line with balance. It's been playtested.

It's fine.

Rhadamanthys

Rhadamanthys

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot Narita View Post
Nooooooooooooooooooooo ;_;

WTB PvE/PvP split for EDA
Same here! Please.

Wuhy

Wuhy

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2008

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Alvito View Post
I have to admit that I expected something much more ambitious.

You're hitting Ranger spike and the OP blood spike. You're doing something to rein in two OP buffs (Mirror of Ice and Illusion of Pain). You're fixing the worst skill in Codex and you're thinking about doing something to a third OP buff (Cultist's Fervor).

That's all?
I didn't because it is Anet but... they've been working on this for 4.5 months and yea... thats all?

Chocobo1

Chocobo1

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2007

New Zealand

CoA

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkofStorms View Post
I do hope that's not everything though.
This times a billion.

Jarge

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2006

England

Queen and Country [QC]

P/W

Plenty mentions of nerfs, but no buffs?
Also, nerf the R/A Dagger rangers that are lynching tombz.
Yes, tombz IS srs bsn.

zelgadissan

zelgadissan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2008

The Warrior Priests [WP]

Me/Rt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarge View Post
Plenty mentions of nerfs, but no buffs?
This is a very, very good thing.

Though technically you could call having an effect on life stealing a buff to prots.

HawkofStorms

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

Yeah, dartboard buffing 90% of the time is what leads to broken metas anyway.

Martin Alvito

Martin Alvito

Older Than God (1)

Join Date: Aug 2006

Clan Dethryche [dth]

Yes, she had already stated that the PvE update would not happen until after the mAT.

What I'm surprised at is that this is the comprehensive list of "pressing PvP issues". I'm all for incrementalism, but all this did was hate on spike, kill MoI and zap a couple of OP skills used in 4v4. Low hanging fruit, and I'm not sure why hitting this set of skills (other than MoI) right before the mAT was critical.

I suppose that it's the way this update was pitched. It was sold as important for the mAT, so I expected more skill changes that would have an impact on that meta. Unless you think spike was going to win the mAT.

Jarge

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2006

England

Queen and Country [QC]

P/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by zelgadissan View Post
This is a very, very good thing.

Though technically you could call having an effect on life stealing a buff to prots.
Fair point, but tbh at this point the power creep's just ruined everything.
I want massive buffs to previously useless skills.
I want a complete overhaul of skills.

Let's start this game again. 10 stacks of ectos says it brings back the oldschool and reinvents pvp.

Xenex Xclame

Xenex Xclame

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2006

DPX

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Regina
Preliminary Skill Update Notes – 21 January 2009

("Shout. For 5...17...20 seconds, all party members within earshot receive +24 armor when not moving. Ends on a party member if that party member attacks.") This skill will be unchanged in PvE.
Nice change,I like it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Regina
Blood Spike in PvP

We've decided to make two changes to address current issues with Blood Spike.


First, and most dramatically, we're changing several defensive skills to work against life stealing. (They will continue to work against normal damage as well.) The skills we're looking at are: Reversal of Fortune, Life Sheath, Shielding Hands, Vengeful Weapon, Weapon of Remedy, and Union.
Wow ,big change here,this is pretty cool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Regina
Second, we're adjusting the lead-in Blood Spike skills: Vampiric Swarm will be altered so that there is no delay between the spell being cast and the first target losing health.
Nooooooooooooooooooooooo.........There goes blood spike.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Regina
Lifebane Strike and Shadow Strike will have their recharges increased from 8 to 15 in order to decrease the frequency of spikes.
Wow do we really need this too since you'r already changing swarm?It's not a small change too its almost double the recharge,at least increase the damage a bit, or beter yet lower the recharge to something more normal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Regina
For Illusion of Pain, we're adjusting some numbers to make the skill more vulnerable to disruption and more demanding to use effectively: Increasing cast time to 2. Lowering duration to 8. Lowering recharge to 5. Decreasing healing to match the shorter duration (45...129...150).
Eh the healing is exactly the same,whats up with that.


Edit:Give us some BUFFS! After you change these things gives us at least some new stuff to play with.

MaaKotka

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

Finland

Kuningas Kunta [Pipi]

Mo/

Recuperation (PvP) will no longer provide health regeneration to characters who are above 75% health. This lets it remove some pressure damage but not counteract it entirely. This change will only affect PvP.

I think this is a bit strange. When pressure gets ppl lower than 75% of their health, recup still counters as much pressure as before. This change makes it just much worse against spikes, because it doesn't anymore clean up random damage, when it is important to keep ppl topped up against spikes. So this change does little to make pressure more viable, but helps spikes to get through easier because it is harder to keep ppl at full health between spikes.

Anyway let the nerfs flow, GW really needs that.