Preliminary Skill Update Notes: Feb 19

Are you that stupid? Really? I said a Mesmer can easily roll through PvE even WITHOUT the AP build that many people say is the best option for mesmers in PvE.

I think many would say the AP/norn build is the best build available to a lot of professions. Rather than showing that mesmers are weak, I think this shows how stupidly overpowered AP and the eotn pve skills are.

Oh noes, it seems that I misread your original post. Dyslexia for the lose. I am so very sorry, please forgive my inadequacy. Now then, since you've proven how high and mighty you are above me, please enlighten me further on how exactly you would make a mesmer build that can roll through pve while playing a significant role for their team? So far, I haven't gotten any good responses.

Melee all do melee stuff better than using AP..so that leave the casters.
<all subjective but still>
Warior: earthshaker, We scythe
Assassin: crit scythe, MbDb
Ranger: pet+melee, barrage/turret
Paragon: Imbagon
Elem: er infoooozer
Rit: spirit spam
Derv: erm? pass.
Necro: Mop nuker* SS, OuU MM
Monk: woh, ap prot
Mes : Echo sin spam

Out of them, which most people consider to be about the top stuff(ish:P)
Only the necro mop nuker and the mes sin spammer abuse that...(NOT counting disco way..thats a whole different topic)

Did I say that they would play a significant roll for their team? I merely said that a mesmer could roll through PvE. For example, One of my many vanquishing builds is:

Ineptitude
Clumsiness
Wandering Eye
Conjure Nightmare
Images of Remorse
Arcane Echo
Auspicious Incantation
Glyph of lesser energy

This is an old fashioned build that i created pre-eotn (wandering eye had been replaced by sig of clumsiness). While it is by no means a wonderfully effective build, I continue to roll through many vanquishes with it. Is it better than most of the meta PvE builds? of course not. All I am saying is that the sorry state of PvE is that it is incredibly easy with any profession. It (or my other mesmer builds) may not be as fast as the meta PvE builds, but they still beat PvE. This is the reason why I said the mesmer class isnt "crappy". They arnt as fast as other professions but they can still accomplish anything another profession can, even if it is a little slower.

I should probably go ahead and mention (so that you dont discredit me by saying i rely completely on my team) that my heroes are currently an ER infuser, a minion master, and a Mes/Mo supporter with a healer henchie and three other henchies. Many times, I have completed these vanquishes with three mesmers (myself, gwen, and the henchie) with no trouble. Once again, I am only mentioning this to show that mesmers can beat PvE, though maybe not as fast as other professions. I am fully aware that my build and that mesmers in general are still slower than other professions.

in your honest opinion i would ask you to get off your high horse and perhaps ask me about my experience in PVE. In the 3 years (nearly 4 in 2 months time) i have been playing i have PVE'ed the entire game on my Ele and Monk. I have soloed UW and farmed my fair share of ectos using SF (on my PVE Sin - which is only set up to do UW and was made for no other reason) and 600/Smite. I even farm gemstones on my Ele in DoA using SF so please don;t bring about my interest or skill in PvE.

as a matter of boasting, i think i had my Assassin in ToA and farming ectos at L20 with 15 point attrib quests done within 6 hours. I finished the whole of factions and had elite luxon armour and elite canthan armour for my monk in 10hours (i obviously had too much cash from zkeys from all my pvp and had spare cash for the armour) and i have finished every capaign on my monk with only heros and hench.

i play more pvp cause i am bored with high end areas being dominated purely by SF sins and Speed clear groups which i don;t find fun or exciting to monk for. i would rather the old school FoW monking or bonding.

EDIT: or the crappy PVE monk builds people want me to run. for fun i ran a HA infuse bar in FoW and the Deep the other day (no PVE shit skills). and kept my team alive quite adequately.

so, once again. back on topic. what has this got anything to do with mesmers? this is a topic relating to the upcoming skill updates. i don;t see any skill updates about mesmers.

Edit :

why do i have so many PvP characters? to be honest, i wouldn;t play warrior in PVE and in order to play mesmer correctly i beleive the only pre-requiste is to know how other classes work. perhaps if i enjoy mesmer enough i will make a PVE character to learn more for playing PVP. until then, i am quite happy to do PVE with monk and ele.

EDIT (Again): All my posts are from early in the pages.. sorry if i have to sleep at night time. this thread has grown quite big and has been derailed quite a lot since then

That appears to be a sticking point for a lot of people, because mesmers CAN roll pve they think mesmers are fine as they are in the grand scheme! and cant see that comparatively they are under par and in all fairness they should get some help (not as is life is fair tho eh)

and ughhhh derailed from OP suitably now, next!

Well of course mesmers are comperatively under par. I never said they werent. I was merely arguing that they werent a crappy class as giga_gaia initially said . Although there are always going to be imbalances between the other classes, and there is always going to be a class at the bottom of the chain and one at the top, I am all for some buffs to mesmers so long as mesmers dont lose the aspects that make them... well... mesmers.

The mesmers need a buff, there's very little dispute on that issue. Let's not leave people out either... Dervishes and Paragons are pretty much in the same boat. Maybe even Rangers are underpowered because of how crappy bow damage is in comparison to just about everything else.

Still, the point of the thread is supposed to be about discussing the proposed skill changes, right? Discussing what NEEDS TO BE CHANGED isn't quite the same, and is already covered in a lot of other threads anyway.

For an off topic remark: This thread now has close to 24 THOUSAND views!! Clearly we're getting some attention here... hopefully at least some of those views are from the people making decisions, otherwise we're just wasting our time.

lol, honestly, we are probably just wasting our time. In fact, I feel as though many of the ideas we come up with here are a waste of time. I dont ever see any word that Anet is looking at, much less considering to implement the popular ideas discussed here. But at least its fun to argue about i suppose...

I know they're watching, I'm also pretty sure that the more of our suggestions they implement in any form, the more it becomes openly admitted by them that we now know more about their game than they do.

I don't think this will happen. Fortunately, as I said before, some of this update is great for me. As much as I don't like the idea of every war rolling DBS builds, a large part of my reason for that is because it's going to make my own personal DBS build, which is already great, into a sheer terror monster. Even that has a flipside. I don't play my sin or rit because they're like that, and boring because of it..

@ Trinity. Nice list, but I'm not here to shatter you with my bigger epeen, and you still don't have any more real Mes experience than any other speculator with a brand new Mes still fresh out of it's wrapper. Some of your points are good, but overall you aren't seeing it all.

No kiddin'...pretty sure everyone with a warrior is/has placing/ed DBS, dwarven stability, crude, sy, and gdw and few other combo together to see how OP this will be. Put the gdw on some team bonder *cough**e/mo**cough* and several dbs wars will be much like ursan rollin'. Constant kd/interupt on high armor steamrollers...woohooo for bout 1hr till it becomes boring.

/peace

ok. fair enuff. i guess i am used to blowing stuff up with my ele or monk when i wish to go ROJ. i know that my two mains are pretty much part of the holy trinity, so i don;t really get the whole mesmer thing in PVE. i know that mesmer is pretty much a key position in PVP. the game maker and game breaker in nearly every case i can think of.

i did notice that mesmer hexes don;t seem to affect some monster skills (or do they???). perhaps this is a needed change. i did the rotscale using a mesmer hero with PD and Diversion and it didn;t seem to even disable any of his skills. The same was true for Glint in HM. No single skill could seem to interrupt any of his skills. I don;t think diversion works on monster skills... perhaps this might go some way to helping mesmers.

maybe ANet needs to revert the way that Simple Thievery worked in PVE when it was first changed... ie... stealing monster skills. that would go a very very long way to bringing mesmers back into the fold. just make it a Fast Cast attribute... oh and change fast casting to inherently gain energy every time an action is interrupted. problem solvered

I don't mean to completely ignore the rest of your argument here or sound condescending, but have you ever actually played with two mesmer heals, especially healing mesmer heroes?

Consdering that warriors just got infinite energy AND adrenaline (cycle Soldier's Defense with Bonetti's Defense)

Quite generous damage reduction (stack Defy Pain with Shield Stance) ...

I am not really afraid of any OF related nerfs. And worst, you will put Spell Breaker on your bars and just mainain it on tank.

has anyone from TK officially confirmed that ANet gives them things to work on and they only test ANet's ideas?
if so, i've missed it. but i don't think we know anything about that issue.


since i don't see reworking pve possible, so that interruptions and e-denial are fine in the form they are now, i'd rather see ANY decent buff to the class than no love at all.


rits can be buffed again. menzies can be added (yeah, dreams, but a possibility since introduction of dhuum). dervishes/paragons can be taken care of and introduced new balance might be fail.
i was hoping to see any changes after five months. even one skill buffed, or VoR reverted, or something tied to another attribute. seriously, anything.
instead, as Upier noted, it reminds me of the april fools' 'update'. this time it's just not funny at all.




i'll point it again.

our whining is NOT about that mesmers can't complete the game. the game is easy, not counting a few places, and can be completed with even lol builds.
our whining is NOT about mesmers not dealing enough damage in pve, as we realise that it's not a damaging class.
the thread is NOT about mesmer heroes and their abilities in pve. we are aware of their godlike targeting and interrupting skills. and yes, they are useful for indirect protection, but still inferior to a good monk hero, especially that one will usually use two monks when h/h.

our point is that when playing a mesmer, you have no mesmerish role in the group.
you can't do what you have been designed for, as e-denial and interruptions suck in pve. as hexes are easily strippable and bosses have 1/2 hex duration, only to hit mesmers and necros with it (please note that it was already introduced in prophecies, where only those two classes actually use hexes). if you want to play in a group, you have to FULLY rely on your secondary class, running 'fast casting xyz' rather than using secondary class to support your primairy. that's pretty silly.
our point is that fast casting is the worst primairy attribute and became redundant with the introduction of mindbender. mysticism and divine favor ain't directly powerful either, but they at least have the synergy with classes' skills. the only synergy between fc and mesmer skills is because some mesmer skills have longer cast times by design.
our point is that if you use various mesmer skills, you have to wand mobs after casting several spells. i'd rather deal 50 damage every two seconds than 100 damage every four seconds (number for simplicity), as even though you get the same in the long run (or even the 50 damage is slower, due to aftercast delay), NOT being able to do anything because all your skills are recharging is simply killing the fun from playing. we don't need backfire to deal 150 damage, cost 5e and recharge in 3s. just cut it's recharge and cost down, damage as well a bit, so that you can actually use it on several caster mobs or cast again if it gets stripped rather than cast it and wand.
our point is that mesmers have no designed role in a pve group. dervishes can easily tank, paragons can run imbagon to aid with 83% lowered damage on the whole party. although they do need some love, mesmers are even worse. if pve diversion had better recharge and worked on bosses, if blackout shutdowned three-four random skills and worked on all bosses...
our point is that mesmers have no options to choose from in pve. it's similar to paragons. you either run imbagon or suck, as paras are generally underpowered themselves. it's also the point here - but it's even worse. you either run VoR and heavy domi/illusion hexes to at least do something or do completely nothing.
our point is that mesmers had no love throughout the whole game's lifespan. instead of even trying to buff and balance them in pve, they got nerfed because of supposed pvp imbalance (see: VoR, it was perfect for pve and got thrashed because of completely another aspect of the game, while nothing was buffed in it's place).
our point is that there are loads of useless skills, not only non-appealing for pve, but even pvp. there are loads of copied skills. there are skills randomly put in several various attributes what kills some of their synergy. i mean, take a look at the spell-stealing mesmer. SoI in illusion, arcane thievery in domination, the other stealing elite in fc. and you have to invest in inspiration for e-management.
our point is that there is no synergy between mesmer skills now, in their effect. it was totally killed with the nerf of VoR, showing us that we can use only one skill a time on mobs just because so, as using two or more at once is weaker or similar to using one.
our point is that there was no pve update for five months and after that already powerful and playable classes got buffed instead of the underpowered ones. it would be much better to see some para/derv love (giving paras options other than imbagon and making dervishes the most powerful class with a scythe), but another buff to rits is just insane.
our point evolved in this thread is that loads of people not even playing mesmers in end-game try to enlight us with their wiki-knowledge. wiki lies. also we got struck by Shayne saying that, in his opinion, mesmers need no love as they are pvp class. it's also a lie - with the introduction of titles, one has to choose one main character, and all classes should be comparable in pve, playing different roles but having them more or less equally viable. and many many ideas how to fix mesmers were already posted in sardelac - turns out that no one reads or cares about that subforum. or maybe it's just mesmers again...
our point is that 'splits are not game-friendly and we have to avoid them' but rits already have 32 splits and it's SO SO hard to split some mesmer skills.
our point is that the supposed role of mesmers can be played better by other classes, but not them. the crown example here is that eles have maelstrom, while mesmers have no interrupt-over-time, not speaking even about aoe interrupts-over-time.
our point is that whatever you can do on a mesmer, another class can do it better. mesmers are not specialists in anything, they don't shine with anything, their primairy attribute is the least useful, their insignias is just a joke. and to hit it even more, there are classes - rit, ele, nec - that can outclass mesmers at several fields at once.


another idea to buff mesmers: add 'if that hex ends early' clause. there are loads of hex-stripping mobs in pve, oftenly in groups. so empathy inflicting long blindness if it ends early or backfire disabling three random spells would add great power to mesmerish mesmer. it would also add synergy with shatter delusions and so on. again, the possibilities are endless.


edit: power in pve = how fast you can kill everything + how fast can you move + what are the odds of failing. since the introduction of heroes, you can set up a team build to have it all pumped up - the question now is how much you can contribute to either part.
that's why SF is impossibly overpowered - sin can kill everything insanely fast, move insanely fast and be totally unkillable while doing so.
even so underpowered class as a paragon is much faster and more stable than a mesmer in pve. even without the synergy from para heroes (haven't unlocked them yet). go into defensive para, preprot yourself, aggro mobs, keep them on you, ball them up and let RoJ hero finish them off, while still dealing moderate damage with your char.

That's not true. We has..............
...
...
.
web of disruption.

......

Can be done even faster. Roll the Dead Sword farming build, tweak it a little for PvE in a team, and do the same thing, with constant burning+whatever.

i know it wasn't serious, but i see it bringing more enlightened wiki geniuses, so...
it's not over time. it's strippable. it's slow and expensive. it sucks :3

Debatable.

You have "no mesmerish role", becase the Mesmer never was designed to have one in PvE, and that's why what you've been designed for "sucks".

To have the Mesmer fit PvE you can:

- Define a new "mesmerish role" alltogether
- Change the game DEEPLY to have ONE profession work better

So, since:

... it's much easier to give the Mesmer some "raw power". Which is exactly what happened with VoR and the infamous Cryway.

To me, even just bringing back VoR would be enough to have the Mesmer shine a bit more. I used to run a VoR bar with some interrupts before the nerf: enemies were either interrupted or punished for not being interrupted.

That, combined with an efficient party setup that had us protected by those skills I couldn't disrupt, worked for me.

I guess, since there are 3 persons having different views and have good explanations for how they use their Spirit Spamming Rit, that, maybe it is only I who are using spirit spamming in a DIFFERENT way, so guess this tiny nerf isn't gonna affect my Ritualist, mwahahahehehehehe. I use my Ritualist to create chaos, mainly, you all know how foes/monsters love to attack spirits, right. Which, come to think of it, I usually play my main character to protect my heroes and henches, unless I am playing the melee class, then again, I always run around chasing whoever is chasing my healers rofl. anyway. good to know what other players are doing with their Ritualist.

In case people are wandering, I do play a mesmer in PvE, she reached Drognar's Forge at level 17 all on her own, no running, or help, playing the game as it was intended by ArenaNet, without HEROES only using available henches. She's my no cheating, kick ass character

Big RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing deal. That was then; this is now.

I remember doing that, ahhh the nostalgia! It was fun *and* useful, being able to kill something due to its "stupidity" (aka bad AI) in PvE for a change.

QFT.

Ditto.

EDIT: I somehow missed this gem of a post. I know it's a huge quote but it's worth repeating because it points to so much of what's wrong with mesmers atm. [Truncated somewhat, sry drkn.]

Also worth noting: we KNEW what issues they were working on. We knew it since.. what? November?

How come people are getting upset NOW for the lack of Mesmer buffs, when none was even in the plans for this update?

I wouldn't expect any more updates to involve all the professions available, they just don't have the resources to. It took them months to come up with this, go figure how long it would have taken if they also took Mesmers, Paragons and Dervishes into consideration.

Those are big and delicate issues that IMO require specific updates and intensive and dedicate efforts. I'm glad they didn't just resort on a couple random buff just to give a sign they care, and I hope those issues will be treated as they need to in the future.

From past updates and that nobody directly stated that what was mentioned will be the only things changed. We don't really know if they will dedicate any such update for mesmers, dervish, or paragons.

Actually, the last few notes from the devs showed just that: we had a list of the changes in the plans, and those were the only changes that materialized in the actual update.

Also, remember this is only half of the originally intended update. We got the other half in January.

Then again, what's left for them to work on? They have Mesmers, Dervishes and Paragons to work on next. Professions that are next to impossible to balance. So it will take time, but I'd be surprised if nothing happens at all.

So, what's wrong with people pointing out what needs to be looked at instead of just sitting around and hoping that they will?

As I stated before, we're talking about skill balance here, not area balance.


Your point of view:
Mesmer can do Northern Wall = cool! = Mesmer class balanced!

My point of view:
Mesmer can do Northern Wall slower than any other class, and Anything Mesmer Can Do... others can do better = Mesmer class underpowered



I do Vanquishes with 7 people in 8 man areas, 5 people in 6 man areas, and 3 people in 4 man areas. Technically speaking, this means a mesmer in the team can have empty skillbar and dance at the portal while the rest of the team does VQ. Does that mean mesmer class is OK and balanced? No. So what is your point of stating you can do VQ with build X? This is a skill balance thread. A skill balance thread. A skill balance thread. Not 'I can do this with WMo mending build'.

Pointing out is fine. Screaming like little kids isn't. You're not pointing out, you're complaining about a patch not containing buff that never were meant to be there.

This update WASN'T meanto to address those issues. NEVER was.

So, pointing out for FUTURE updates is fine - even though I'm sure they know better than anyone what needs to be done. Complaining for the current one is pointless. They absolutely CAN'T address EVERYTHING with a single patch. It's not like GW will be over next week.

So, while we're at it, why aren't they rebalancing the UW now? What are they doing for Codex Arena being unsuccessful? Where are the new costumes? Why no info about the 5th Year Anniversary? Why aren't there news about GW2 yet?

Lolwut? What demented bar are you running? First Vizunah, now GNW... I'm afraid your problem is far from being the underpowered profession you're playing...

GNW can be done in a matter of minutes by just putting Empathy on anyone, and that sure is faster than doing it with an Ele, just to mention one.

Why did they then work on the ritualists then?
I mean, they didn't announce it and the ritualists already are very high on the list of options that are godly, so ... why do it?
Why not waste time on hammers and blood and then waste every spare moment on the stuff that REALLY needs the help?

And most of the bitching in this thread (and others of course) comes from the fact that you have individuals that bring up an issue and then that issue is countered by how those individuals should learn to play better or arguing what's the proper term to describe the inadequacy presented. And then, those same guys admit that the issues presented are actually real issues, but then they still continue attacking their validity.

From a PvP perspective, these changes are the most likely to have an impact on the gameplay:

Good:
* Primal Rage getting nuked. This piece of power creep has caused problem ever since it got reworked to this version
* Shattering Assault getting nuked for secondaries. While it's probably not enough to take out the R/A gimmick, it's a good start.
* Pious Concentration: Although they ignore the real problem (Empathy, Backfire and VoR), they at least nerf a skill that makes the skills so much stronger. A rework for the unholy trio still needs to be done, though.
* Resilient Weapon and Featherfood Grace: These skills are obviously overpowered and in need of a hit.
* Backbreaker: About time they fixed the BB sin.

Possibly bad:
* Steelfang Slash: This skill might lead to insane knocklocks, which is why it was changed to begin with.
* Life Siphon: This will be both an awesome cover Hex and a good one on its own. It's an outright buff to Hexway.
* Oppressive Gaze: That's a pretty insane skill for Condition spreading. It also doesn't seem to fit the Blood Magic theme very well (Poison is a Death Magic Condition, Weakness is a Curses Condition).
* Jaundiced Gaze: It all depends on the numbers for this one, if it keeps the same HEAR as it has now it'll be totally insane.
* Blood Bond: That's one mighty cover Hex. It would be a better idea to make this an Enchantment.
* Mark of Fury: That's 3 adrenaline on 1 hit. In 5 seconds you could completely fill your adrenaline.
* Auspicious Parry and Defensive Stance: Instant unconditional adrenaline gain (yes, unconditional. Use another stance and you get your adrenaline) is dangerous. Both could serve as a cancel stance and AP is especially dangerous because it recharges so quickly. It could lead to extremely gimmicky builds using it to fuel Hammer Attack Skills, possibly abusing another primary attribute for it.
* Deflect Arrows: If the recharge and duration stays the same, that's an almost permanent block stance, very abusable for secondaries.
* "Fear Me!": A skill to fear indeed, this+Soldier's Stance for IAS and a big chance to critical.
* Overbearing Smash: Don't give Thumpers a second copy of Bestial Mauling, please.
* Renewing Smash: +40 damage is a lot, especially on Hammers. Being able to deal that amount of damage every time you knock somebody down is retarded.

....Keep the random buffs out of PvP, please? Thanks in advance.

You make it oversimplistic. Do you really think THAT's all they've been working on in the last few months? They obviously DON'T work on an update at a time. This is what they have ready to release: simple buffs to address simple issues.

Who knows what's next?

While they're at it, they should change Assassin's Promise to read: "Elite Hex Spell. For 5...13...15 seconds, if target foe dies, you gain 5...17...20 Energy and all your Assassin skills are recharged."

Well working on multiple balance projects at the same time and releasing stuff when it's ready, sure fits in really nicely with the move from a monthly skill update to a bimonthly plan, which they still haven't been able to keep.

Sorry Gill, but you miss the point. I think everyone here realizes that changes to crappy professions was not INTENDED to be in the update. What you've missed is that the people posting here by and large think that's what the update SHOULD have been about.

When you think about it, its pretty understandable that players aren't satisfied... we've had to wait for 6 months to get even this little tidbit of an update. Remember that when most of us started playing there were updates once a week, like clockwork, even after EotN was out. Then it was changed to once every few weeks, then once a month, then once every 2 months and finally 1 time in 6 (SIX!) months. By the live team's own promise there should have been 3 updates in that time and we're getting one, which is about equivalent to the kind we would get weekly not so long ago.

Add to that the fact that there are some very needed balances that have been due for literally YEARS that still are being left out (or by your argument not even planned) and the result is that we are pissed off. We've all paid a good amount of money for a game which is currently BARELY supported. Honestly, sometimes I think anet would be better off if they just shut down their servers, and let the current player base set up their own where they could balance the game on their own. Or, at the very least, instead of using the test krewe for testing purposes only, they should be taking their ideas for buffs/nerfs directly from at least a sampling of the players whom they have deemed worthy. (Maybe they're already doing that... if so kudos... but then the TK needs to think in broader terms and listen to the non-TK members.)

That pretty much sums it up

.. and makes further discussion pointless after numerous "become more skilled and you will be able to do this mission in HM, although slower / with more difficulty / but mesmer doesn't need buff, you just need to learn how to have fun with it even if it sucks".

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. Im not saying that mesmers dont need buffs. Im merely saying they arnt a crappy class.

Once again, they arnt a crappy profession. They just cant accomplish their goals as fast as other professions. Sure mesmers need buffs but they arnt all THAT bad as they are.

yea, thats me. Im tired of hearing that my professions is crappy when they are only slightly underpowered.

that is exactly the change that I would like to see implemented. It would allow assassins to use it to recharge longer-recharging chains but it would not be abusable by other professions.

Once again, you are overexagerating the recharges. I rarely have to wand unless im playing some gimmicky per shutdown build for the lol's or for fun.

Uh, no. Mesmers can interupt and disrupt better than any profession. This may not be useful in PvE, but that doesnt change the fact that no other profession does this better than a mesmer.

Thats a good idea that I have been vouching for for awhile. I think that Shatter hex would be a great skill if other skills had synergy with it.

First, I would disagree that how fast you can move is power in pve.

Second, we have to remember that mesmers are not a strait up dps class. Therefore, if more "power" is to be given to mesmers, it has to be in a way that utilises what mesmers are intended to do (ex: rewarding interuption or disruption or e-denial with damage).

I repeat.

Most of the issues you think that SHOULD have been addressed with this update are HUGE issues that need something like... a complete game redesign? to be addressed properly. Unless you want the usual band-aid fix, like those that only generate power-creeps and then get nerfed in 6 months (VoR says "Hi!"). Which, ironically, is what Ritualists got so far: their primary attribute still sucks big time, yet they got one ubiquitous build based on a stupidly OP elite skill that's being abused by everyone and his mother, but won't probably last long.

You CANNOT assume they AREN'T addressing more issues anytime soon, nor that they work on one or two issues at at time, release an update to address them and then start to think what's next. That's absolutely absurd. I'd be wondering what the Hell they have been doing in the last 8 months if they just worked on this update, 'cause it surely didn't take that much.

If anything, Paragons should be more vocal here, since they hardly make a point in this game now, lacking ANY appeal at all.

As far as gameplay goes, I find offering alternatives to overpowered builds much more valuable than band-aid buffs to a classes that, while being subpar, work perfectly fine (like the Dervish and the Mesmer): Warrior can now consider Hammers and Tactics instead of DS+SY / HB+MoP, Necros will probably try out Blood and maybe Ritualists will stop being Spirit Spammers only. Surely that won't change the current state of the game and probably everyone will go back to the usual builds after the sense of novelty has faded away. Good intentions, awful execution, but well, that's Anet. I still appreciate they tried.

LMAO.

We're talking about the status of Mesmer in PvE, and then you come and say they do this and that better than others... oh wait, not in PvE!

Hilarious.


FYI, Mesmer interrupts and disrupts actually suck even in some PvP arenas. In RA or FA for instance, you're better off having a ranger than mesmer if you want to be successful (yes, talking about disruption and interruption). I don't play GvG anymore so maybe someone else can comment on that, but "mesmer is good at interruption... but sucks out of GvG" just shows how bad mesmers really are. Wake up, GvG is played by a small % of players, and is just 1 zone in the game, and now that we have PvE PvP split there is no need to have crap skills outside of GvG because it might affect monthly tournaments. Do I come to GvG subforum saying how necros are ok because AotL Death Nova and Bone Minions are cool? No, I don't, because it would sound silly.

Urban legend. See examples in the other thread. Buff is enough, no need for complete game redesign, just buff that will keep in mind PvE environment as it is right now. I demonstrated it can be done. How can someone then say it can't, is beyond me. State of Denial I guess.

In the last two years, Balance Updates brought:

- Multiple buffs to Ether Feast - which really didn't need any, since it was one of the best self heals in the game.
- A buff to Energy Tap
- A buff to Empathy
- A buff to Energy Surge and Energy Burn - go figure, since e-denial is pointless in PvE, they even reduced the energy loss and increased damage! But what do they know...
- Ether Nightmare being buffed and becoming pretty much the best AoE degen skill in the game
- Lyssa's Aura getting a good buff
- CoP being buffed (and then reworked) and spawning the infamous Cryway
- VoR becoming so powerful and abusable that became meta everywhere (before getting a nerf)
- IoP becoming godly (and then being slightly toned down)

And those are just the ones that spring into my mind right now. How can you say this class is being "left out"?

EDIT - Oh and I forgot Wastrel's Demise!

I already used this combo and it was very fun. Now I think I will quit. To keep blocking 24/7 a powerful ele or a monk was very useful.

uh... what? I said Mesmers DO disrupt better and interupt better in PvE. I just admitted that disruption isnt useful there (though i would argue interuption is). I never said anything that could be interpreted as "oh wait, not in PvE!". Why dont you reread my post?

Uh... i wasnt talking about mesmers in the PvP world, but if you would like to, i can. Mesmers have far more options for interrupts and disrupts in PvP than any other profession including rangers. Mesmers can deny energy better, and have access to a wider variety of interupts with a wide variety of side effects. I will admit that D-shot is good, but mesmers (or any other prof) can use it just as well as rangers, and I would far rather have the assortment of other disruption spells available to mesmers. Mesmers have the incredibly awesome diversion for PvP, as well as the punishing hexes. I really dont see how you can say that rangers interupt/disrupt better than mesmers.