Here's a thought of how you could fix Permas.
Shadow Form:
10 energy, 1 sec cast, 60 recharge.
For 6...22 seconds, enemy attacks miss and you cannot be targeted by any spells. You can't use non-Assassin skills while under the effects of Shadow Form.
Glyph of Swiftness:
Changed functionality to: Ends if you use a non-Elementalist spell. If a non-Elementalist spell is used, Glyph expires before shortening the recharge.
Ding ding ding, everyone's happy. Sins who use SF for running or solo farming with Recall + hero or Shadow of Haste are happy, and speed clears can't shorten the recharge in a viable way.
Update - Thursday, February 25, 2010
Abedeus
Fay Vert
5 months for a badly tested and ineffective nerf! Wow.
SF would have been better with physical immuntiy and vulnerable to spells. It seems they didn't want to nerf the broken skills without seriously buffing them at the same time, that's just insanely stupid!
SF would have been better with physical immuntiy and vulnerable to spells. It seems they didn't want to nerf the broken skills without seriously buffing them at the same time, that's just insanely stupid!
Meridon
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Originally Posted by click here
UW will be just as fast as before, easily.
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As long as Shadow Form and 600/smite aren't able to solo the game anymore on HM, the nerf has been a success.
Lykan
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Originally Posted by Abedeus
Here's a thought of how you could fix Permas.
Shadow Form: 10 energy, 1 sec cast, 60 recharge. For 6...22 seconds, enemy attacks miss and you cannot be targeted by any spells. You can't use non-Assassin skills while under the effects of Shadow Form. Glyph of Swiftness: Changed functionality to: Ends if you use a non-Elementalist spell. If a non-Elementalist spell is used, Glyph expires before shortening the recharge. Ding ding ding, everyone's happy. Sins who use SF for running or solo farming with Recall + hero or Shadow of Haste are happy, and speed clears can't shorten the recharge in a viable way. |
Abedeus
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Originally Posted by Lykan
They already fixed permas, didnt you see?
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Gill Halendt
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Originally Posted by Abedeus
Ding ding ding, everyone's happy. Sins who use SF for running or solo farming with Recall + hero or Shadow of Haste are happy, and speed clears can't shorten the recharge in a viable way.
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click here
the areas I mentioned can still be done easily with shadow form, or, for more speed, obby flesh eles. (note the 60 dmg from sliver in wastes o_O). Fine, SF doesn't cause attacks to miss anymore, but with armor of salvation and the 5 dmg reduction that SF gives you, terrorwebs, mindblades, dead threshers/collectors do no damage while attacking you. And since paradox is not needed anymore, you can simply take stoneflesh for mountains and wastes. Same idea applies to FoW. take out the paradox, and you get an extra 20 energy to do whatever you want with during the course that shadow form is being recharge, so put in stoneflesh and gogo kill.
BlackSephir
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Originally Posted by Ugh
Undoubtedly.
Idea: Nerf Shadow Form. |
Let's not go crazy here.
AlsPals
Looking at what is possible in game(even worked out stupid Me/A solo build...wow) post patch, the lack of a true heavy handed approach is just gonna put everyone back into a position to laugh at the foresight of tester/balancers. I typically do less than half the work in a given college course, yet still hope to pass. Is that logical?
Axeman002
awww ...poor QQ's didnt get a skill obliterated...shows how much anet take note of ure cries ah well...heres to another year of SF QQ threads /raise can
Kumu Honua
Shadow Form was never the problem. Perma was.
The fix to shadow form was and always will be:
This skill is disabled for 30 seconds.
The fix to shadow form was and always will be:
This skill is disabled for 30 seconds.
Ugh
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Originally Posted by Kumu Honua
Shadow Form was never the problem. Perma was.
The fix to shadow form was and always will be: This skill is disabled for 30 seconds. |
Do this, please.
Abedeus
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Originally Posted by Gill Halendt
Deadly Paradox + a perfect Enchantment mod is enough even for Assassin secondaries tough.
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Or hell, like someone said, change it to "Disabled for 30 seconds" and change it from Spell to Skill. Or to Form.
own age myname
It's funny they try to make SF worse, and it ends up better.
Gun Pierson
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Originally Posted by own age myname
It's funny they try to make SF worse, and it ends up better.
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Del
sweet, obby flesh buff! yay.
The-Bigz
I like the buff to tactics, and I think I'm one of the first people to say that. I dont know what it is about it, but after looking at this random build I hit for wiki, I lol'd irl. I mean I lol'd irl. Loling irl is what I did. Note counters.
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/W/Any_Shove_Axe
Edit: Bravery = Ability to frenzy charge into groups of enemies like a madman and start blowing shitters up regardless of impossible odds.
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/W/Any_Shove_Axe
Edit: Bravery = Ability to frenzy charge into groups of enemies like a madman and start blowing shitters up regardless of impossible odds.
Gill Halendt
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Originally Posted by Abedeus
Recharge 60, with DP it's 40. Even if you somehow make it last 30-35 seconds, it's still 5 seconds too little, at best.
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With a perfect Enchantment mod -> Duration: 20s (rounded down)
With Deadly Paradox -> Recharge: 20s
There you go.
Xenomortis
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Originally Posted by Gill Halendt
Recharge is currently 30s, duration 18s @ 12 Shadow Arts.
With a perfect Enchantment mod -> Duration: 20s (rounded down) With Deadly Paradox -> Recharge: 20s There you go. |
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Originally Posted by Abedeus
Here's a thought of how you could fix Permas.
Shadow Form: 10 energy, 1 sec cast, 60 recharge. For 6...22 seconds, enemy attacks miss and you cannot be targeted by any spells. You can't use non-Assassin skills while under the effects of Shadow Form. Glyph of Swiftness: Changed functionality to: Ends if you use a non-Elementalist spell. If a non-Elementalist spell is used, Glyph expires before shortening the recharge. Ding ding ding, everyone's happy. Sins who use SF for running or solo farming with Recall + hero or Shadow of Haste are happy, and speed clears can't shorten the recharge in a viable way. |
He was referring to his suggestion. That would be the suggestion he made in the same post as the one you initially quoted.
Abedeus
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Originally Posted by Gill Halendt
Recharge is currently 30s, duration 18s @ 12 Shadow Arts.
With a perfect Enchantment mod -> Duration: 20s (rounded down) With Deadly Paradox -> Recharge: 20s There you go. |
If you up the recharge to 45 or 60, it won't work.
Steps_Descending
OUch, just noticed Obsi's casting cost after logging on. Now that restrict it to elem.
Gill Halendt
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Originally Posted by Abedeus
Try reading my other post.
If you up the recharge to 45 or 60, it won't work. |
Turbo Ginsu
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Originally Posted by Gun Pierson
conclusion: don't mess with the farmers or they'll make you look bad. They know more about this game than the TK and Anet and the anti farming crowd combined. L2P lol.
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What I find funny is that farming with it takes a wee bit longer now, yet there is still a small and staunch number of ppz here carrying on like pork chops because things weren't done how they wanted them done, and the sins they so detest are still useable.
To me, it's starting to look like pure spite, and not a lot more.
DreamWind
I admit to not having played the game recently, but let me get this straight:
They spent 5 months to make an obvious must-nerf even better at worst, and just a little bit worse at best? LOLROFLMAOCOPTERS!
And people wonder why I haven't played this game recently.
They spent 5 months to make an obvious must-nerf even better at worst, and just a little bit worse at best? LOLROFLMAOCOPTERS!
And people wonder why I haven't played this game recently.
Mireles
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Originally Posted by Kumu Honua
Shadow Form was never the problem. Perma was.
The fix to shadow form was and always will be: This skill is disabled for 30 seconds. |
Trip555
So UWSC and FOWSC work again using permas.
Soosc now use even Mo/a permas. Warrior can no longer go Oby, should also become SF Perma instead.
Ele could still play Obby tank, but should prefer SF from now on, so nobody has to bring Balthazars spirit.
UW still sucks for balanced groups, thanks for the extra pressure caused by the skeles during Horseman and Wastes.
Thanks for the SF Buff and the balanced group nerf in the last 5 month.
Finally everyone can and should play Perma.
Soosc now use even Mo/a permas. Warrior can no longer go Oby, should also become SF Perma instead.
Ele could still play Obby tank, but should prefer SF from now on, so nobody has to bring Balthazars spirit.
UW still sucks for balanced groups, thanks for the extra pressure caused by the skeles during Horseman and Wastes.
Thanks for the SF Buff and the balanced group nerf in the last 5 month.
Finally everyone can and should play Perma.
nologic
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Originally Posted by Trip555
So UWSC and FOWSC work again using permas.
Soosc now use even Mo/a permas. Warrior can no longer go Oby, should also become SF Perma instead. Ele could still play Obby tank, but should prefer SF from now on, so nobody has to bring Balthazars spirit. UW still sucks for balanced groups, thanks for the extra pressure caused by the skeles during Horseman and Wastes. Thanks for the SF Buff and the balanced group nerf in the last 5 month. Finally everyone can and should play Perma. |
SF should either been nerfed to the ground or removed.
I want a new fresh build thats not 100% gimmick and that goes decently fast right now its just a mere joke.
Turbo Ginsu
Quote:
| I want a new fresh build thats not 100% gimmick and that goes decently fast right now its just a mere joke. |
I can't help but think that SF in it's current form is one of the biggest "You asked for it!" jobs in the history of gaming.
You guys wanted GW free of Assassin dominance, you got it. You wanted Perma SF given limitations and have it's complete invulnerability removed, you got that too. The fact that you're all now complaining even harder than before just leads me to believe, that as pointed out by a previous poster somewhere around the joint, overall, the community here seems to have little or no idea what it wants.
Sooner or later you guys will have to realise that in the real world of RPG's with multiple class systems, 2 sometimes 3 or more classes per toon, that "Pure" builds almost always get instagibbed. It's the way things are.
Ultimately this nerf, and it was a nerf to Perma Sins in their previous incarnation, gave all of my toons legitimacy in a greater way than they ever had before, and their diversity has only been enriched by several of the changes, not just SF alone.
Leave GW alone folks, keep your heads down, mouths shut, don't make eye contact. You never know when next they'll give you exactly what you ask for.
AlsPals
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Originally Posted by Turbo Ginsu
I want to sit tight, shut my trap, and enjoy what's left of GW until GW2 comes out. Apparently it's a whole new game.
I can't help but think that SF in it's current form is one of the biggest "You asked for it!" jobs in the history of gaming. You guys wanted GW free of Assassin dominance, you got it. You wanted Perma SF given limitations and have it's complete invulnerability removed, you got that too. The fact that you're all now complaining even harder than before just leads me to believe, that as pointed out by a previous poster somewhere around the joint, overall, the community here seems to have little or no idea what it wants. Sooner or later you guys will have to realise that in the real world of RPG's with multiple class systems, 2 sometimes 3 or more classes per toon, that "Pure" builds almost always get instagibbed. It's the way things are. Ultimately this nerf, and it was a nerf to Perma Sins in their previous incarnation, gave all of my toons legitimacy in a greater way than they ever had before, and their diversity has only been enriched by several of the changes, not just SF alone. Leave GW alone folks, keep your heads down, mouths shut, don't make eye contact. You never know when next they'll give you exactly what you ask for. |
Tullzinski
In tackling Shadow Form, we decided to take a larger look at the issues involved. We didn’t want to simply nerf Shadow Form and cause a mass migration to another overpowered build, only to nerf that after players start using it. It’s not possible to predict all of the clever combinations that players may invent, but we’d like to establish clearer guidelines for ourselves and for players as to what is and isn't acceptable. This should help us with any future buffs or nerfs related to end game PvE.
The nerf/buff merry go round continues. Good Job Security I guess.
The nerf/buff merry go round continues. Good Job Security I guess.
cthulhu reborn
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Originally Posted by DreamWind
I admit to not having played the game recently, but let me get this straight:
They spent 5 months to make an obvious must-nerf even better at worst, and just a little bit worse at best? LOLROFLMAOCOPTERS! And people wonder why I haven't played this game recently. |
aspi
Looks more like balancing skills for gw2?
Never thought about it much but I truly hope that gw2 has all new spells instead of reusing the skills of gw1.
Never thought about it much but I truly hope that gw2 has all new spells instead of reusing the skills of gw1.
AngelWJedi
i fine it funny SF can still be used but not 600/smite. when it was SF that was over used and not 600/smite. and now if a monk wants to 600/smite they have to us SF?! wth. -_- i tried SF but never could get it wasnt good with timing add in lag i always died. but with 600/smite when i lagged i was able to keep myself alive enough to get SB off. well at least 50% of time. i could live with what they did to SB but why mess with holywrath? >> keep SB the way it is but gimmie back my old holywrath.
SoS is slow and now i have to bring a healwith me when i do feathers farm and when i farm for nic. so i can live with that. i find it laughable that some people think those who do 600/smite dont play with people. 9/10 of the runners i had for dungeons would run unless they had human smiters/sin to run them to the dungeons. disagree with me if you want but this is my opnion and yes i am a fan of the old 600/smite. it was one of the few things that keep me in game. old content is still old content.
SoS is slow and now i have to bring a healwith me when i do feathers farm and when i farm for nic. so i can live with that. i find it laughable that some people think those who do 600/smite dont play with people. 9/10 of the runners i had for dungeons would run unless they had human smiters/sin to run them to the dungeons. disagree with me if you want but this is my opnion and yes i am a fan of the old 600/smite. it was one of the few things that keep me in game. old content is still old content.
Ecomancer
It amuses me that over these many years and many skill updates later we still have skills that are uttterly and hopelessly useless. Not only that but they come out with a great recent update that highlights lack of forethought or outright stupidity on ANETs part.
Here is a prime example:
* Overbearing Smash: removed adrenaline cost; added Energy cost of 5; added recharge time of 20 seconds; changed functionality to: "Hammer Attack. Deals +1...16...20 damage. If it hits a knocked-down foe, this attack is unblockable, and that foe is dazed for 1...7...8 seconds."
Compare this to:
*Skull Crack: Elite Melee Attack. Interrupts an action. Inflicts Dazed condition (10 seconds) if target is casting a spell.
One could say that I am simply ranting, but look at the way the skills work and their requirements. OB Smash requires 5 energy, deals additional damage and inflicts dazed for a maximum 8 seconds if foe is knocked down.
Compare this to Skull Crack. Its an ELITE attack, requires 9 adrenaline, inflicts daze for 10 seconds maximum but foe needst o be casting a spell. Now it wouldn't have been such an issue if this stupid skill were non elite. But the fact that it is an elite skill and DEALS no additonal damage it is one of the most absurd if not idiotic skill ANET have conjured up.
The skill can be made useful by changing its attribute to STR and having it deal additional damage. I don't know of anyone that has ever bothered with Skull Crack in either PVE or PVP form and I have had ample experience in both fields.
Here is a prime example:
* Overbearing Smash: removed adrenaline cost; added Energy cost of 5; added recharge time of 20 seconds; changed functionality to: "Hammer Attack. Deals +1...16...20 damage. If it hits a knocked-down foe, this attack is unblockable, and that foe is dazed for 1...7...8 seconds."
Compare this to:
*Skull Crack: Elite Melee Attack. Interrupts an action. Inflicts Dazed condition (10 seconds) if target is casting a spell.
One could say that I am simply ranting, but look at the way the skills work and their requirements. OB Smash requires 5 energy, deals additional damage and inflicts dazed for a maximum 8 seconds if foe is knocked down.
Compare this to Skull Crack. Its an ELITE attack, requires 9 adrenaline, inflicts daze for 10 seconds maximum but foe needst o be casting a spell. Now it wouldn't have been such an issue if this stupid skill were non elite. But the fact that it is an elite skill and DEALS no additonal damage it is one of the most absurd if not idiotic skill ANET have conjured up.
The skill can be made useful by changing its attribute to STR and having it deal additional damage. I don't know of anyone that has ever bothered with Skull Crack in either PVE or PVP form and I have had ample experience in both fields.
Del
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Originally Posted by Ecomancer
It amuses me that over these many years and many skill updates later we still have skills that are uttterly and hopelessly useless. Not only that but they come out with a great recent update that highlights lack of forethought or outright stupidity on ANETs part.
Here is a prime example: * Overbearing Smash: removed adrenaline cost; added Energy cost of 5; added recharge time of 20 seconds; changed functionality to: "Hammer Attack. Deals +1...16...20 damage. If it hits a knocked-down foe, this attack is unblockable, and that foe is dazed for 1...7...8 seconds." Compare this to: *Skull Crack: Elite Melee Attack. Interrupts an action. Inflicts Dazed condition (10 seconds) if target is casting a spell. One could say that I am simply ranting, but look at the way the skills work and their requirements. OB Smash requires 5 energy, deals additional damage and inflicts dazed for a maximum 8 seconds if foe is knocked down. Compare this to Skull Crack. Its an ELITE attack, requires 9 adrenaline, inflicts daze for 10 seconds maximum but foe needst o be casting a spell. Now it wouldn't have been such an issue if this stupid skill were non elite. But the fact that it is an elite skill and DEALS no additonal damage it is one of the most absurd if not idiotic skill ANET have conjured up. The skill can be made useful by changing its attribute to STR and having it deal additional damage. I don't know of anyone that has ever bothered with Skull Crack in either PVE or PVP form and I have had ample experience in both fields. |
Phineas
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Originally Posted by AngelWJedi
i fine it funny SF can still be used but not 600/smite. when it was SF that was over used and not 600/smite. and now if a monk wants to 600/smite they have to us SF?! wth. -_- i tried SF but never could get it wasnt good with timing add in lag i always died. but with 600/smite when i lagged i was able to keep myself alive enough to get SB off. well at least 50% of time. i could live with what they did to SB but why mess with holywrath? >> keep SB the way it is but gimmie back my old holywrath.
SoS is slow and now i have to bring a healwith me when i do feathers farm and when i farm for nic. so i can live with that. i find it laughable that some people think those who do 600/smite dont play with people. 9/10 of the runners i had for dungeons would run unless they had human smiters/sin to run them to the dungeons. disagree with me if you want but this is my opnion and yes i am a fan of the old 600/smite. it was one of the few things that keep me in game. old content is still old content. |
I don't wish to see the nerfs rolled back though. I'll give some thought towards another method of farming (because that's all it amounts to at this stage) and won't worry too much if I have to put the game down due to lack of enjoyment. No point flogging a dead horse.
Test Me
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Originally Posted by Trip555
Thanks for the SF Buff and the balanced group nerf in the last 5 month.
Finally everyone can and should play Perma. |
I've never used SF before (nor was I pro or against it) but now I have to!
I do wonder though, why did they bother leaving two other skills doing the same thing but far worse (SB and OF, the energy requirements on OF for the extra 20 armor must be the worst joke ever).
rb.widow
So they nerfed the builds for solo farming and most SC/ 2 man farming,
So now will they make the drops better in hardmode, because they are getting worse and worse.
So now will they make the drops better in hardmode, because they are getting worse and worse.
Steps_Descending
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Originally Posted by DreamWind
I admit to not having played the game recently, but let me get this straight:
They spent 5 months to make an obvious must-nerf even better at worst, and just a little bit worse at best? LOLROFLMAOCOPTERS! And people wonder why I haven't played this game recently. |
I know we all expected more from a 5mounth update but...
I wonder if the problem is ANet's balancing abillity or the fact that the game itself is just unbalanceable without retooling every single skill to act the same ( basically reducing the number of different skills).
Can't wait to see GW2. Both to get rid of GW1 and to see a game with less skill than this one!
dark4190
I miss Holy Wrath. 
No more 50k/40min dungeon runs with 2 heros (smiter and ranger). Even if a new build is created, nothing will be as simple as it used to be: pin hero, cast QZ, cast spells, run in, everyone dies, rinse, repeat.
I feel that without the ability to 600/smite with heros I will never 600/smite again (due to my lack of faith in other players).
PS. I also find it humorous that SF is now being used by 600s rather than Spell Breaker. I never would of seen that coming.
No more 50k/40min dungeon runs with 2 heros (smiter and ranger). Even if a new build is created, nothing will be as simple as it used to be: pin hero, cast QZ, cast spells, run in, everyone dies, rinse, repeat.
I feel that without the ability to 600/smite with heros I will never 600/smite again (due to my lack of faith in other players).
PS. I also find it humorous that SF is now being used by 600s rather than Spell Breaker. I never would of seen that coming.