noobs in UW/FoW

I just like to give my team a challenge after Chamber by taking on UWG. If the team is really ready for UW, they should be able to do UWG right after Chamber right????

"WTF?!?!?! WHO TOOK UWG????"
Not me.

You sir sound like an elitist. Sad….think about this for a moment. 4 years ago almost 5 this game came out. The only way you knew people were the people who are your RL friends who said “Hey joe blow lets get this game and play.” And then you realized that OMG I can talk to people on line and meet more people. “Hey sarah jane care to join our party to beat up the baddies and get Master/bonus on this mission with us?” “Sure”, says sarah Jane. Whether you failed, passed, semi flopped you still PUGed. There’s nothing wrong with PUGing, you did it when you started. Sad that it has dwindled to almost nothing or B**** fests against new players. This game is a game. If you say you’re wasting time…well mister you’re wasting time playing the freaking game. So whether you pass, fail, semi flop time has been wasted. I enjoy myself regardless, is it frustrating when a fail happens SURE BUT that doesn’t stop me from wasting more time day in and day out. Time is wasted regardless. The real question that started this whole thread was about someone who said they knew but turns out they didn’t. If that is the case that is sad……but it’s people like this who posted what I quoted that leads people to lie about how experienced they are in an area. Should he have stated he had no clue? Yes, but what can you do when you get elitists saying find an alliance to teach you?

I've yet to see any videos/text guides on the NEW update of the areas, like what to do when a skele rapes you when you've been MIA for 9 months and recently found out what a skele does to you, lol. That's all I need is a text guide showing what to do when you have 5 of them around you, and I'll be straight in the areas. I know the areas well, it's just the skeles get me now.

This is good point. I see this often, too. I also see the kicking deal. I get frustrated when I see a newer person come into a group and ask for the build, or pings a random build, or something that's missing half the skills, and then get kicked. I understand that, but yes, these players should be given a chance, BECAUSE, we all started right where they are ... with no clue. I did.

I know plenty of experienced players who are very experienced in the game, but have yet to do UWSC, because no one will at least take them along or give them a chance.

I think the experienced players forget they started out as a noob once, too.

Who gave the monopoly on PUGs to you (and your kind)?

Why is it the noobs that have to stay out of PUGs, and join alliances to learn?

Why don't YOU find an Alliance? One full of pros like you, that do reliable runs?
Then you wouldn't have to waste your time maintaining that huge blacklist.

Approach the skeletons as you would any other ranged damage dealer. Stay out if its AoE Flurry of Splinters, use walls to block his Bone Spike or sidestep it, protect and heal the people that it is targeting, and kill it.

Do note their patrol paths are very large, it is best to kill any of them in the general area you are accepting the quest for. That way, you won't have 5 of them ganging up on you on the same time.

There really are no secrets, just use general battlefield awareness/compass.

Are you trying to jump straight into UWSC with little to no previous UW experience or do you have extensive UW experience and can't get into a UWSC group? If it's the former, those people typically have multiple build revisions as experience and are in it purely for the fastest runs possible. The bar then, naturally, is going to be a lot higher for who and what gets into the group.

I dont know why i still come here to read this crap you retards continue to write.

You sir are an idiot

So if a couple months go by and someone becomes experienced, they're still blacklisted. So if someone was believed to have made a mistake but didn't, they're still blacklisted. If your friend makes a program but has a small glitch, will you blacklist him for not being experienced at programming?

HIGH FIVE!! OMG too funny!! but so true. new players are everywhere. everyone makes a mistake every now and then. Oh well....we aren't robots with programs that we can switch out...Let see, insert UW program now.

+1

Totally agree, in fact, I think I will blacklist him right now.

I don't know if this has been addressed, but I try to help people learn how to play the game in a "teach a man how to fish, etc." way. That is, explaining how to play a prof, giving ideas on how to use heroes, and other strategy and knowledge.

Problem is...I think only about 1 in 10 people ever listen to me. I helped this monk in my guild out at vizunah square, bringing in two accounts (one for each side) with a great team of support heroes (MM's, smiters, spirit rts, etc.). He was very impressed with how trivial I made the mission. So while we're killing, I explain the builds and how to play a monk and what heroes he should bring (you know, what elites are good. and team synergy things like using strength of honor, blood ritual, splinter weapon, etc.).

I bid farewell to the guy after the mission. He then proceeds to spam guild and ally chat for help on the next, doing absolutely nothing to try to improve his own heroes so he can cakewalk through the entire campaign. Now a couple of months later, he's using discord (no offense, it works great and, but it doesn't teach you how to play. if you know how to play, go ahead and use it) but he has no idea why it works and doesn't understand why he needs extra hexes against destroyers (namely thoughts). I know this is no indication of the player base as a whole, but again, most of my experiences just confirm my belief that many players don't know how to think critically.

Anyhow, I still try to teach players, but I hold no expectations. I also employ a "I help you in person one time. then verbal advice for any subsequent times.". of course I don't say it explicitly. that's just being a jerk.

ps. of course, this is kind of a tangent to the FoW/UW topic at hand.

So... the question was asked, but I don't see any actual responses: does anyone have a 2 man / 6 hero build that can clear 4H, Servants of Grenth, and Dhuum?

Not that I have seen.

Pol

I was meaning out in Pools area, since their is a boat load of KD.

I did pools the other night, and had my IAU and I couldn't even stay alive .. but then again, I somehow got ambushed with about 10 charged somehow, which is normal for Pools. I guess I panicked a bit when I saw the skeles and forgot there were Charged xD

I'm pretty experienced at UW, I've been doing UWSC since Ursan days, so I'm used to UWSC and all the builds that have gone through it. It's just a been awhile since I've used the Obby build so I keep thinking all I have to press is three numbers to stay alive. But, it's not the bar that bugs me, it's the new UW... it's all changed and I have no where to read about the changes and new things about it, like if the quests in the areas have changed.

I wonder if anyone will be kind enough to write a guide on explaining on the new stuff in UW? Because no one seems to want to explain it a bit.

I don't even understand the Dhuum part, like where the heck do you go?

No one bothers to explain the "experienced who left the game due to some life and health issues but has come back to have fun in uwsc and just needs a few lines said so she can understand what has happened"

I agree with the others, this is dumb. You're basically saying no one can make a darn mistake in this game. It's a game. I've made tons of them, we're meant to make a mistake. I only blacklist certain people, but most of the time, if someone screws up, it's not a big deal. I used to get all pissy about it before I left for awhile, but now, it's not a big deal ... everyone makes mistakes. Get over it. Have fun. Play the game.

Wait, you are soloing that part? Then indeed forget all about what I mentioned. I have no experience in soloing/speed clearing the UW, other than faming mindblades or smites with the flavor of the month build.
That's just being ignorant. There's an entire wiki dedicated to GW. There's plenty of information to be found on the Underworld, Dhuum, the Skeletons, the new Dryders and the quests.

All changes are documented on the wiki too. Just browsing through the October, November and December updates would show plenty of starting points for further investigation.

I mean, it sure is convenient and all if someone writes up an entire step-by-step guide for UWSC, but trying to acquire the information by yourself hasn't harmed anyone.

To all you people attacking "elitists," here is my response. We aren't elitists. We are skilled players who would be glad to teach you a run. We run teaching runs all the time in our alliance. We love more people in UW. But don't join a PUG unless you learn extremely fast (like me, I learned all areas on my own in 2 tries each) or are experienced. Don't waste our time. We spend our time on PUGs to try to get a chest. When we run teaching runs, that is when we expect to spend time without getting a chest.

Also, there are NO step by step guides out for UW/FoW yet because even we haven't figured out the kinks. Our chamber is almost never <1 cons, we have never had a flawless run, we still die to unexpected things. The skill bars could still use improvement. Stop begging for builds and think for yourself instead of being a mindless follower (<- a bit philosophical eh?). Its not hard to create a team build if you put your mind to it. Just join an experienced alliance that teaches and they would be glad to show you how to do it.

Here is a basic breakdown of UW for you so you can think up your own builds:
Threats in Chamber (Quests: Clearing the Chamber, Escort of Souls, Unwanted Guests) - High melee damage, interrupts, knockdown (spell), caster hate (spell)

Skills you should bring - Protective Bond (and a way to cope with the massive energy loss), Anti-interrupt (Mantra of Resolve works well), damage reduction (Stoneflesh Aura works well), spell blocking (OF or SF), a way to relieve damage (blocks or more reduction), self healing, damage

Team positions available for chamber - 3


It's that simple. Just assess the situations and adapt to your needs.

Nobody good seriously plays in PUGs, and definitely not with any expectation of completing UW. Also, chamber does not take anything like 30mins to do.

You can definitely still do Wastes quest and 4H with two people, and with a hero bonder I'm pretty sure you could do Dhuum also. However, I'm not sure if you could do chamber with the same builds, you do have 5 heroes to use though so it can probably be done.

I do, because I enjoy playing in PUGs. They are the best way of meeting people on the game in my opinion.

Well, I usually go in a 8 party group with the terras who solo the four main areas; mtns, pools, wastes, pits ... and I usually do mtns and sometimes pools. I don't solo all of UW ;P

I guess I could take a look at these. It's just it feels like people are keeping this a giant secret :/ and won't give advice to people who just plain need some advice, which is what I am... someone who is experienced, left for reasons, but needs advice, lulz.

Very good point. I've met some of my best "guild wars buddies" from playing in PUGS, lol xD no shame in that.

I pug when I can and I have a reputation in my guild for telling some really good pug horror stories. I've been in some really awful pugs. However, for the most part I must say that most of the pugs I get are decent.

It's just that the bad ones make for better stories and those are the ones we post on guru and tell our friends about. So people get the impression that all pugs suck.

I PUG, I'm very exp. I know lots of people that PUG, but when I create a PUG group, I create a group that can probably finish, not a group of random people that wan3z ect0z.

Also a big point that everyone is missing that was made in post #1. One of the noobs LIED and said he was exp. These are the people I blacklist. The ones that lie and say they are really exp then turn out to be complete idiots that don't even know the basics of UW.
You can do UW with a ton of different builds, my alliance has 2 builds that works.

Also plenty of good people play in PUGs. I met a ton of my most exp UW friends in PUGs, you just have to know who to avoid. Most people with popular anime names in their name are mostly 12 year old idiots who fail. Etc etc the list goes on and on.

Now, people say that they won't be exp if no one let them join in a team.

Now this is a case of Speedclear is false, mostly of time you have a vital job and normally you are supposed to do that job alone, no one even with the best of intention will be able to help you, simple as that.

At start I was like those people, no idea of what i was supposed to do. How I improved myself?

1) I joined some full clear PUG forming, those will almost always have no req, as other then a decent skill bar. I never expected those actually to beat UW, but playing in few of them I got a good idea of some area.

2) I looked on Youtube some video of the role I was supposed to play.

3) I bought some conset then tested my job alone.

4) when I was comfortable with my skills I joined some pugs.

5) last step, eventually troughs pugs I got some friend who would call me when they were forming and tutored me some more area.

Now, this was last year when the build was DayWay, but this concept can be clearly adapted with the build that PUG run today (terraway, but dont expect big chance of success)

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_UWSC_TerraWay

1) get a idea of the how generally UW work by pugging a UW full run and reading wiki( avoid those without any protective skills, like no imbalagon or the classic monks with only heal and no prot. Most of those Pugs will fail when the aggro break from the tanks.)

2) get yourself a target role :
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_UWSC_TerraWay
Read carefully what you have to do, and try check on youtube for some videos ( they are mostly old but still it give a good idea)

here few tips on how to learn a role

Bonder : Even a cat can play this role. Just join any pug looking for one, as long you know how that skillbar work you will be fine.

Necro : That is a little more tricky but not much, you need to know where to put yourself to cast spell.

Lab Tank : Vital job, there is one video on youtube somewhere (linked on the farming section in a UWSC thread), I will suggest not do to this at first, play bonder and watch what your Lab tank do(if he is good, otherwise just wipe it from your memory)

Emo : The emo job is not too hard, but I suggest you to not play this, his role is vital at dhuum, if eventually the team after much pain manage to dhuum and fail because you don't know your job, well they have a good reason to rage at you. (this actually its true also for the necro)

Terras.

Simple watch what you can from youtube, read what you can from wiki, then have a friend come with you in UW with 4 hero. Then he can leave (or join you and trying to learn another terra area) and you should be able to clear the chamber, pop lab reaper and take "restore grenth monument".

After that use hero to clear the way to the start of your area (like a normal SC team will do) pop cons and try to complete your job.

Pits one are probably the easiest since no one expect them to pop the plain reaper.

For hero I found those the best (+3 random hero)
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team...o_SpeedBooking

I suggest no one waste their time with that terrible chamber setup because its total crap. Also CONS are gonna cost 1 stack of mat's soon enough so speed clears will die because they stop being profitable.

There are some better skillbar, but that is what pug expect for now. About cons, their price are actually dropping.

Viewing a YouTube video or reading about the run does NOT prepare your average player with no experience for the difficulty of UW/FoW even in Normal Mode.

The problem as some have put is the classic job hiring process:

To get the job, I need experience
To get experience, I need the job

Both conditions A and B must be simultaneously for one to succeed, however they cannot be simultaneously satisfied thereby blocking said interviewee from ever getting the job.

The problem is, there's no "entry level" areas in GW which require PUGs. You can H/H your way across the entire game, never once meeting another living soul if you wish or have to, but when it comes to the "elite" areas you are required by the game to run with others, because of the restriction on Henchmen/not being able to run seven Heroes.

H/H never tells a player they can't come due to a lack of experience, which is why so many choose to H/H instead of waiting hours for a PUG. H/H is a known quality, a PUG could either suck, drop, or be a bunch of jerks.

Seeing as how many elite areas would be MORE difficult running H/H or even seven Heroes compared to a human group that knows the routine, I think its high time ANet get off their butts and allow seven Heroes in ALL areas, including the elite areas. In places like Urgoz and the Deep, it should be upped to eleven Heroes.

Its not fair to expect players new to the game to languish in defeat before they've even had a chance to try. The only way for many to get experience clearing UW for example is with two accounts and dropping a 2nd character's three heroes in with their group. It should not require two accounts to play an area of the game, no matter its "elite-ness."

ANet needs to recognize that GW is on the decline, if not already approaching the bottom, and just open up the gameplay and areas to everyone. This means realizing that most of the outposts in the game are completely dead, and the ones that are not are populated by the hardcore who don't wish to waste their time "educating" new players.

Nobody is born with experience; everyone started somewhere, and the fact that "EXP" people exist is proof enough that it is in fact possible to learn from nothing.

I didn't start playing until after the Ursan nerf, I had no experience in UW, and PUG groups only wanted people who had done it many times before: exactly the same situation as now. I had no teacher, I didn't have a secondary account, and I didn't have any friends to help me. Catch 22? No. Youtube, PvX, Guildwiki, these forums, everything is there for those who put in the effort to learn about it.

Show me a screen where ToA has >50% of people selling cons for <8k. Until then, this is complete bullshit. And cons don't cost a stack of mats right now. They will be expensive as hell when it takes 5x the materials to craft a cons. Thats 1 cons for every 5 you could make before. Thats 40k/cons which is 5k/person in an 8 person PUG.

Experience is getting your ass kicked over and over again and deciding if you really care enough to keep going.

You couldn't get hold of the things you'd done and turn them right again. Such a power might be given to the gods, but it was not given to women and men, and that was probably a good thing. Had it been otherwise, people would probably die of old age still trying to rewrite their teens. ~Stephen King, The Stand

When the game is new, everyone starts on an equal playing field, there are no "pros" because everyone is a noob. As soon as there is an experience gap however, usually in relative short order, those who have said experience quite often refrain from helping the "noobs" as they've moved beyond that skill level. Its kind of like the age old repetition of parents forgetting what it was like to be a child, and telling their ten year old kids to act like adults.

I'll assume that you're saying you've cleared the UW by yourself then, or with a guild, otherwise you wouldn't bother posting the above. Bully for you, but I think a game's learning curve shouldn't be so high that you have to spend more time on external research just to be able to get into the game itself.

All the tools to learn should be within the game, and admittedly, GW has a sharp learning curve at the high end PvE and PvP, and little to no in-game directions on how to do it. There's no description in game of how to proceed in Urgoz for example except trial and error, with a lot of fail.

It wouldn't be so bad if it didn't mean that you could spend 2-4 hours in one dungeon, with pathetically measly rewards, only to fail because half your team drops or some Wammo overaggros every group repeatedly.

Question: Where are you hearing that the materials required to make cons is going to increase?

Well yes, I don't know if you look around in farming section etc. but I am quite knowledgeable/skilled or whatever when it comes to the underworld - of course, it wasn't always that way.

Well, the wiki I don't think is external research really seeing as you can press F10 or type /wiki in-game, and besides, this game is largely about strategy anyway. The planning is just as important (if not more so) than the actual doing. Also, as you said these are "high-end" areas; they are meant to take effort to do.

I find PUGS kinda fun. It's kinda like casual gaming with no high expectations. I get in them when I'm bored and rather not deal with all the nagging of people, lol... but I normally use PUGS for mission in campaigns on NM.

No need, i have 30 set on my inventory bought at 7.5, if they drop low I will buy some more while waiting for something else, not everyone might sell for 8k, but enough of them do.

Now, that is something who need a sauce/screen

Basically this. I had to learn on my own, self taught basically, no one wanted to sit there and show me around. It takes awhile to learn on your own, but you eventually get up there with the others and once you've gotten your foot in the door, it's smooth sailing the rest of the way.

was on a FoWsc and apparently with a 100b whos done it loads, he got the griffon quest and went and aggroed them and said what i dont do that?
every1 has to start off somewhere but youd expect them to at least know what to do

now im a fairly good EoE and MoP in FoWsc but how i started out was watched some videos and just learnt how what to do then joined a team and didnt mention it was my first time and they didnt ask and no one knew because i did a little background research into my job in the team.

Yes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Af1OxkFOK18http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Af1OxkFOK18

That is in part true, but like implosion pointed out there are ways to get experience, and once you are not completely clueless about something is easier to get more experience.

Its like all those fame thread, will i do something or just complain?

Using the suggestion posted above are a much better way then hoping the mentality of people change. That or giving up on the area.