im having a whinge

I feel Anet have damaged the game badly since the last few nerfs. Hm in the dungeons is now impossible, no more runners, very few ppl to make A pug, guildies leaving in their droves.

I know this a doomsday thread (all doom and gloom) but I wish they hadnt nerf the sins or monks, even though they may have dominated things at least i could get things done, now its a struggle to find ppl to do NM.

The once bustling town of Doomlore and umbral are mere ghost towns now, my chances of completing missions and areas for my titles are now badly dented if not shot down in flames.

If this thread is closed or flamed for my pessimism I understand, but I feel writing my sorrows may find a soft spot in Anets heart and maybe they will back step on some of their decisions and re-instate some of the changes they made....but alas i fear it will be in vain.

There....Ive revealed my feelings and withdraw into the solitary corners of doomlore to shed my tears!

I hear what youa re saying man. BUT, it means you need to practice. All of those areas can be finished with heroes and henchies. There are also new areas to solo, BUT you have to learn how to do the soloing, and not rely on others to run you. If you want phat lewtz, you need to get them yourself and not rely on others. You can do it!

erm...dungeons impossible without runners?! im almost tempted to call this a troll attempt....
seriously tho, 99% of the game can be rolled with h&h...and pugs arent that hard to find...

loosing guildies after 5years is expected...games life span and all.

I guess it would be nice if some titles represented some kind of achievement instead of just $$$ eh?

i understand what you guys say about doing it for myself, after all i use to do it with just H/H before the runners came prolific as they were, but i guess i got lazy.

Still one of my chars was a runner and now she is redundant for this alone im sad.I have to admit i used her to make money to get my other chars done now its going to be a struggle or at least take much longer to raise the finance.

but still i miss the crowds in the towns...

P.S trying doing arachni HM with H/H...for an average player like me..trust me its too hard.

Dungeons, in general, are not so hard that you shouldn't be able to do them yourself. If you're too lazy to do them without a runner, sucks for you.

The things you talk about dear Thread Creator, are nothing else but a natural consequence of Anet not addressing overpowered/no-skill builds efficiently and on time for the previous years.

They made the community lazy, demanding and self-centered, because they failed to promote teamwork, creativity and skill.

Now, the community response to nerfing is quitting and raging, rather than looking for alternative means to achieve the same goals.

Also, jazilla nailed it pretty well and to the point. Game is still ridiculously easy, but of course it's not easy enough!

That's what happens when you spoil the brats too much - they keep asking for more. More. And even more.

Daddy, but you MUST buy me this toy or I'll cry! Mommmy!

For someone like me who has many titles to complete and who feels that GW2 is looming closer and closer and faster than i can now get these titles done, sometimes the runners are a godsend.
I know they wasnt everyones idea of playing the game,and many still chose to play it as it was meant to be played even when the runners were in abundance, but for me it was a respite from always doing it the harder way.

Now that choice has been taken from the game and i do miss it.

I Vanquished all of EOTN and did all nm (and some HM) dungeons with H/H, The rest of the dungeons HM i completed with my guild or pugs with balenced teams. Not a perma or 600 in site !

Exept for Slavers but thats an elite dungeon, I did those as soon as eotn came out and used old school obi tank builds for that.

I dont really know what you are moaming about.

Roll a rit, SoS + a couple extra spirits + painful bond is hella overpowered and can make short work of nearly any foe. Throw some heroes and henchies on top that and nothing can stand in your way. Or don't roll a rit and just bring one of the Rit heroes to do it for you. Either way piece of cake.

Wow, I didn't realise people actually struggled with NM/HM PvE. So far everything I have done has been rolled so easily with myself as either critscythe/critspear/critbow and Sabway heroes along with 4 henchman. So far only 1 thing stopped me, and that was Vloxen Excavations HM....yea never attempt that on your own. But seriously, with the right h/h and being smart anything can be done so damn easily.

MY point was the guild im in lost 50% of its members after the nerf..unfortunate for the guild ...tough luck others might say...but it happened and they didnt just move on to another guild..they quit GW.

As for the pugs go to doomlore or umbral and try get one..hardly anyone there now whereas it was always full.

All im saying is the nerf has obviously pleased some ppl but it has also displeased others, ppl had a choice whether to use runners or not, therefor I feel it should of been left alone.
OFC this is purely my opinion and im sure many others feel the same so i felt the need to have my whinge.

Yeah i know what your saying,
My guild has dwindled alot recently and old friends no longer play. But this isnt because of nerfs to SF or 600, its because they have max HoM and GWAMM and have completed everything, and they all went to other new and fun games because gw became boring.
No real new content and tired of old quests people have been doing for almost 5 years.
Horrible pugs and bad skill updates (im not just talking about SF or 600)
There is alot of reasons people dont play anymore. you cant just put it down to one skill update.
The 600 SF nerf wasnt to blame.
If Anet didnt make it easy to run and farm dungeons in the first place people wouldnt mind pugging a dungeon the hard way now. Also, better end chest drops would make people play them more. There is just no need to play a hour or more in a dungeon to get a crappy q13 gold drop.

some good points here commander thank you...but i was just starting to learn playing the 600 in DOA when this nerf came about, so you could probably say sour grapes on my behalf...and you'd probably be right.
but ive been playing gw for 4 years now and starting the 600 monk for me was new and gave me new interest in the game as it was becoming a little stale.now i got to find something else again.

yea yea i know tough luck! but it doesnt stop me from feeling gutted.

i did all eotn nm + hm with just another human so 2 human + 6 heroes no conset no sf go learn to play

and for all i incule slayer and vloxen HM

I don't agree 100% with the recent updates,but I never got a run for anything other than Gate Of Madness once. Its so boring,i dont buy a game for ppl to play it for me. Its no fun,and since almost everyone did it,everyone is leaving (the ones that did it have nothing else to do,the ones that didn't can't find help).

Most of GW is hero/henchable. It isn't as fun but...well its an old game.

You can always join a high-end guild that does DOA,Urgoz,Fow,UW,etc and shiz,its groups where (not always everyone) you have humans so its fun.Doesn't get repetitive unless you over do it

I hear yah about the updates and such.. it really killed runs and things like that(and for the most part alot of selling consets ;p). But, now alot of ppl go do FoWSC and UWSC and such.... but yea. eotn was may favorite"campaign"(i call it a campaign even tho its just an exspansion), so i really do miss all the ppl.

1. use decent builds for heroes
2. pop a conset + summoning stone
3. good game

Guess what? it's called HARD mode for a reason...and it's not what some might think....


there is no reason though that you can't sit and do it yourself...quit your QQing

I think what they really need to do is make the Paragon viable outside of the Imbagon. The class is almost nothing compared to the other classes.

On topic though, I wholly agree with you. I can't find groups at all anymore.

No it's not. Get a real build if you're failing.
OH NOES! THE RUNNERS ARE GONE!
H/H>pugs, what else to say?
The game is five years old.
You don't have to. NM is just loleasymode. NO area except where henchies are unavalible aren't doable on NM.

No, they're not. Also, WTS friend list, there sure are some people willing to help you if you really can't do it for whatever reason.

Eh, no. They made Shadow Form a little less OP(It still is) which is a good thing. And you can also still 600/smite shit with SoJ.

If you could do it before the runner appeared, you can also do it now that they're disappeared

QQ more. I still run dungeons.
^See above.

It doesnt matter if you're an 'average player' or not, you could let your h/h do the work for you easily.

It's not a troll attempt, or it wouldn't be called "A whinge". It would be called "AMG DUNGEONS R OP".

Anyway if you can't H/H it, either change your builds alot until you come across something that works for you; change tactics (Lure more, give aggro to something, ball stuffs) or get some friends to help.

I only ever play dungeons with eight players, and I never have trouble finding allies to join me. That could just be my double-standard of patience in outpost, though.

Have these people tried to find people? From their friends list, Guild Wars Guru, or their alliance?

That's your problem, right there. It's not impossible to do HM dungeons now, not by a long shot. Ask anyone who did them without SF or 600/Smite, let alone those who completed them all with H/H (and there are plenty of those people on these forums). The fact that you think it's impossible to do something in HM without god mode tells me that one of the primary arguments against SF - namely, that it rewards bad players and doesn't contribute to helping people get better - was spot on.

Again, how is this a bad thing? You should not be able to complete the hardest team content in the game by paying one guy to do it with his hero.

Wrong, they damaged the game by allowing 20 min speed clears and dungeon runners to become the norm and now the fix has come way to late.

I hope in GW2 they introduce similar concept as in Aion, once you do a dungeon you cant enter it again for a set numbers of hours. i.e 4/12/18

Few things you may not have considered. As noted, most dungeons, even in HM are able to be done with heroes and hench. I even did Duncan with hero and hench once on my Mesmer, which many people feel is one of the worst PvE classes in the game. Also, if you can't find PUGs, good. PUGs are not the best way to get things done as you are relying on people you know nothing about. Using people in your friends list, guild, and alliance is a much better option. If you are in a guild or alliance that doesn't offer help, or can't, then you are not in the right guild/alliance. Try finding a new one that focuses on PvE and has enough people in it. Lastly, runners should not be used (in my opinion) until you have completed the dungeon/mission/quest at least once yourself (and I mean once in NM and HM each). After you have finished the dungeon once, and want to use it for various reasons (rep points, fun, loot, etc.) you then can start using runners (remember, this is my opinion). But runners doing everything for you is a bad idea, a very bad idea. Why play a game if you are going to ask other people to play it for you? Seems like you have no fun if you sit and watch someone else do all the work.

I really don't understand the mentality of someone whining they they can no longer pay another person to play a portion of the game for them to get a title that shows off their GW skills. :facepalm:

cause then they can't call other people noobs who don't have the titles and stand around AFK in Kamadan

Same thing happened to DoA with a previous nerf. It went from several districts to...1? some people move to different areas...some move to different games altogether.

The same thing has happened to the guild and alliance that I'm in. I'll agree to an extent with some of the other posters that the game is getting old. But I've noticed a trend that with each successive nerf, the number of people in our guild/alliance dwindles faster and faster each time.

Sadly, if you couldn't do it without ridiculously overpowered builds that bordered on invincibility, then quite frankly, you didn't deserve to do it in the first place. It wasn't quite "cheating", but it was an exploit. It was using parts of the game in ways for which they were never intended to give one an unfair advantage over the game.

So, get better. Make good builds. Find people who actually know how to play and group with them. These areas are quite doable. You can do it; you just need to not suck.

Or you could PLAY the game. In which case, everything is okay.

Sorry to be a douche, but if you can't complete something, improve your build, improve your skills, find better guildmates, or learn how to counter and build teams. I'm not anti-runners or anti-farming, but you shouldn't have the entire game played for you.

It's really your guild's fault for attracting a membership base 50% of which was comprised of farmers.

I remember playing /w a guy in our guild who did nothing but farm for the two months following up to the SF nerf. He literally played like someone who was doing nothing but farming for two months. Completely incapable of tracking party member (monk) positions, over aggro, poor targeting, you name it. After playing for a week or so and realizing he sucked, he pretty much quit GW.

Tough luck, the ppl that quit b/c they don't have insanely OP farming builds aren't exactly the kind of people I'd want to be playing with on a regular basis.

There actually are other options, they're limited, but they are there.

What I find the most suprising about the para, is that of the 3 builds I've managed to put together that aren't imba, I see people coming up with variations of pretty much the same builds independently. That pretty much smacks of a very limited set of useful skills, forcing players to fall back to the same ones repeatedly.

Well, at least the news that the Mesmer will get some love with the next skill update means that ANet's actually looking in the right direction in terms of what needs love.

Just bring 2 minion masters and good game. It's that easy. You just need to learn how to play pl0x.

I've been away for quite a while and I don't find it any harder than it used to be.

I did get run through thirsty river on my native prophecies Mesmer because she didn't have any heroes and i couldn't do it with just henchies.

meaning of this thread:

no very easy SC = impossible to do
.

u can h/h all dungeons and elite areas in hard mode, with 2 players u can do anything u want. And Im playing with derv so u cant call it too easy class.

And I assume you can h/h (1 player + 3 heroes... no dual boxing) UW HM? Or DoA? All quests, of course, not just monsters.

lol you got that soooooooooo right. Too many brats in this game. I think this game is good proof of what happens when you don't charge a monthly fee like a WOW or EQ or DAOC etc. Nothing but whiney crybabies all the time everyday. Lazy kids who just want someone else to do it for them so they can have bragging rights like those that worked for them. lol

Lots of relevant points from most of you and I thank you all for making me realise that all is not lost, as i have stated before i guess i had got really lazy.

Only points id like to re-iterate is:

1...I dont 100% rely on runners as some of you seem to think.

2... Im no gaming wizard who can work out the mathematics in game builds,i tend to throw a build togethor that i think may work and if it dont work then its back to drawing board.but this sometimes gets weary after hours of failures.

3....personally the runner builds were not invincible as far as im concerned,they still required good gaming skills and were enjoyable gaming platforms.


4....my guild didnt purposely enlist farmers.

5...when i say anet damaged the game, I mean that many ppl have stopped playing the game, i know the age of the game contributes towards ppl moving on, ive done it myself for periods of time, but blatant signs that ppl left in their droves is easily noticable after the last nerf.

obviously i can see there are anti-runner posters here and so probably cannot see it from the runner side, let me give you another example.

Zaishen bounty/missions....since they were introduced they have become a busy commodity, many many ppl are rushing all chars on their accounts through these, whether its for the title for themselves or just to trade in Z keys.
As much as some of you hated the runners, it was here that they were invaluable,ordinary PUGS could NEVER do DOA HM in the time a runner could,everyone was a winner,the runner got paid for running, the team got their Zaishen done relatively quickly and through drops/gems and Zaishen reward got their money back, everyone was happy.
The game wasnt always dependant on runners,most missions still relied on the PUG/Guild teamwork to complete,whereas some merited the runner IMO.
Most ppl are working with at least 4+ chars on their accounts, (I know some who have ten chars) can you possibly imagine how long it would take to get 10 chars through FOUNDRY HM using PUGS??IT WOULD never happen.

The FACT that once busy towns are now the way of the DODO is a testiment to the fact that the nerf to the runners was a bad move.
Whether you like the runners or not,they attracted ppl to towns and made the game still feel like it was in abundance with ppl playing GW, but now that illusion have been destroyed.

Yes, probably. But what is your build to fight 6 Angorodon's in HM, without anyone dying, and no Assassin support?

The opp is right about empty outposts. It IS considerably more quiet since the nerfs.