Preliminary Skill Update Notes - 23 April 2010
Sankt Hallvard
Another buff to hexes. I'm unimpressed.
Shayne Hawke
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| All of those are things we’ve been considering for major updates of their own. |
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| without introducing excessive power creep into the game |
It's like there's no recognition of players already being stupidly powerful with everything they have.Not like I'm concerned with Mesmers getting a buff in PvE. With all the discussion that's been tossed around it, I'm beginning to agree that they need help. However, to just be continuing with buffs to every class doesn't seem like a very good idea.
Sounds like it's time for another lengthy suggestion thread in Sardelac concerning the strengths of PvE-only skills. I'll get right on that after the racing holiday passes.
aspi
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Originally Posted by End
ummm....you do relise the update hasn't gone through yet right?
on a side note....yeah power creep moar? |
shadows of hob
I don't care what we do with all these OP looking mesmer skills, at least if we keep them PvE only! 
Infanta
I really like the idea of making the mesmer style of play effective for PvE, I just don't want to see mesmers turn into button spammers like most other classes are.
I would personally prefer to see most other classes nerfed to the level mesmers are at currently, then mesmers buffed to the level of other classes, but with PvE skills already in place it doesn't matter much anyways. I can see this changing the meta quite a bit though.
I would personally prefer to see most other classes nerfed to the level mesmers are at currently, then mesmers buffed to the level of other classes, but with PvE skills already in place it doesn't matter much anyways. I can see this changing the meta quite a bit though.
Test Me
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| These will NOT include major changes to the Dervish (and in particular scythes), non-“Imbagon” Paragons, and the smiting line for the Monk. All of those are things we’ve been considering for major updates of their own. None are far enough along to be a part of this update. |
drkn
No high hopes before the update comes in the final version, but i have to admit - i start to regain trust and hopes in ANet and TK.
Though at this state of the game, it's much easier - and much more realistic - to buff what needs to be buffed in order to balance it rather than nerf everything around it to balance things out.
If you weren't making mesmer another DD with some unique support skills, you would have to redesign all other classes and a big part of the gameplay itself in order to get everything in it's place - fun, playable and quite balanced. I hope for it in GW2, but i think that everything is fine for GW1 as long as it serves a good purpose - tweaking meta, buffing underpowered, nerfing overpowered, balancing and improving, giving us new content and having much better communication between ANet/TK and the playerbase than it used to be about a year ago.
Thumbs up.
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| However, to just be continuing with buffs to every class doesn't seem like a very good idea. |
If you weren't making mesmer another DD with some unique support skills, you would have to redesign all other classes and a big part of the gameplay itself in order to get everything in it's place - fun, playable and quite balanced. I hope for it in GW2, but i think that everything is fine for GW1 as long as it serves a good purpose - tweaking meta, buffing underpowered, nerfing overpowered, balancing and improving, giving us new content and having much better communication between ANet/TK and the playerbase than it used to be about a year ago.
Thumbs up.
MagmaRed
As already mentioned, there needs to be a correlation to Fast Casting to make these Mesmer changes instead of secondary Mesmer changes. Power creep is fun, but quickly becomes boring. I like some of the ideas for some of these skills, but the more impressive thing I saw was the change to the casting buff the HM creatures get. Since interruption is so hard in HM, this will make it more likely to be used, especially with some of the skill changes like Frustration and Migraine. And I hope they tested the monster groups very well. As noted, the Windriders will be much harder as they have Cry of Frustration and come in groups of 3-6. And there are others to be concerned about, mainly because of the large numbers more than the skills. Breeze Keepers having Migraine, Wastrel's Worry, and Empathy will make some Ring of Fire areas a nightmare. And the Jotuns, which come (usually) in pairs of Bladturners and Mindbreakers won't be too easy to tackle with Frustration, Ineptidude, Arcane Conundrum, and Visions of Regret. I don't mind seeing some of those changes on Mesmer monsters, but when there are large groups of them it can become very difficult. As long as they test those groups well, and know it won't require some gimmick to get through them, I'll be ok with it.
expugnare
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Originally Posted by Test Me
what about ele in HM?
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mage767
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Originally Posted by Abedeus
GHAHHGHGHGHHGAHHGHAHGHAGA
Psychic Instability = for every 10 seconds, enemies are knocked down for 4. Woah. Also Stolen Speed is nice on a Hero, to make sure every enemy is hexed and give your allies Fast Casting. Now Mesmer will boost party DPS too... Migraine = woah. Slow downs everything PLUS it's a Dazed but harder to remove. |
Thanks for listening to atleast one of my suggestions (psychic instatbility):
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...8&postcount=21
Axel Zinfandel
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Originally Posted by expugnare
I agree, I didn't roll an Ele to do a Monk's role.
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agrios
Some are nice, some are too much win.
Of course Mesmers needed some AoE effects and more ways too improve interrupting. But some of the "ajustments" are more powerful than needed. Namely ...Migraine.
I get the picture of increasing degen on some skills, to make them work better on the HP sacks that are some hi-level foes. Problem is players are not HP sacks...this degen will totally pwns players when cast from mobs in HM. The things go even worse when DP comes into play. This will have to be tested more.
Overall more nice changes than bad ones. But the bad ones are scaring me, and note the fact I have a PVE Mesmer.
One thing still worries me, there was no word about energy management. With reduced recharges Mezzies will burn mana even faster.
Of course Mesmers needed some AoE effects and more ways too improve interrupting. But some of the "ajustments" are more powerful than needed. Namely ...Migraine.
I get the picture of increasing degen on some skills, to make them work better on the HP sacks that are some hi-level foes. Problem is players are not HP sacks...this degen will totally pwns players when cast from mobs in HM. The things go even worse when DP comes into play. This will have to be tested more.
Overall more nice changes than bad ones. But the bad ones are scaring me, and note the fact I have a PVE Mesmer.
One thing still worries me, there was no word about energy management. With reduced recharges Mezzies will burn mana even faster.
FoxBat
I'm guessing they mean "make a direct-damage smite skill thats worth using besides ray of judgement" but that doesn't really seem like a great or needed idea to me, with smiters already being fairly good without it. As mentioned eles should be promoted as HM nukers and monks as HM healers, not the other way around.
I don't know if they are testing anything like this, but something like fast casting giving you energy every time you interrupt a spell (or through an ignored fast casting skill) could be interesting.
I don't know if they are testing anything like this, but something like fast casting giving you energy every time you interrupt a spell (or through an ignored fast casting skill) could be interesting.
drkn
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| Of course Mesmers needed some AoE effects and more ways too improve interrupting. But some of the "ajustments" are more powerful than needed. Namely ...Migraine. |
I don't know what's your real experience on mesmer in high-end PvE - having one doesn't mean you know that class and played it long enough; i have and play a paragon but i'm not the one to judge the upcoming updates too much - but compare the incoming mesmer possibilities with most current meta builds of other classes (not to mention meta team builds). Mesmer is simply catching up with the creep now.
Every other class has 'more powerful than needed' skills already and while i agree that it would be better to redesign all classes and the gameplay itself, it's probably impossible because of the team's limitations.
Side note: as mentioned earlier, keep in mind that it's primairy mesmers that need love, mostly, and FC is actually crappy and redundant in PvE, especially after introduction of Mindbender. While i'm not the biggest fan of changing FC itself, seeing skills having higher (or even better: additional) benefits from high FC would be awesome.
An example (just to point out the view) is to add an additional effect on Channeling, allowing x party members to gain energy as well for every 2x in FC. No buff for secondary mesmers, possibly great buff for primairy mesmers in terms of support.
kvndoom
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Originally Posted by Greedy Gus
Most of those need to be pve-only, as they've already had to be nerfed in pvp (or still need to be).
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FengShuiDove
Oh my gosh. I read Migraine wrong the first time. 100% slow down AND easily interruptable on spells? That thing is a boss killer if I've ever seen one...
Axel Zinfandel
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Originally Posted by FengShuiDove
Oh my gosh. I read Migraine wrong the first time. 100% slow down AND easily interruptable on spells? That thing is a boss killer if I've ever seen one...
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~ Angel ~
Yay, nice to see some mesmer love!
TheGuildWarsPenguin
PvE only + nerf/balance mesmer enemies (Wind riders, etc.)
Buff everyone else to match Mesmers now.
Buff everyone else to match Mesmers now.
Raynb
WOW, really nice changes! Makes me really wish to play as a Mesmer at PvE and things look nice on the future!
But I have to ask something to Regina or some at A.net. Most of the significant damage changes goes in one of the attribute lines that any secondary Mesmer have access to, and especially in illusion attribute with lots of new powerfull skills.
Have A.net tought in the really big possibility of anyone with Mesmer as secondary profession being equally able and efficient to play the role of a Mesmer primary at High-End PvE? (Cry of Pain being one good example of it btw)
Can something be done so when the balance finally goes live primary Mesmers have a considerable advantage over secondaries using Mesmers skills?
Sorry if I was hard to understand but I got really worried with this issue and I hope A.net can give some attention at this. And once again, thanks for this nice Mesmer balance
But I have to ask something to Regina or some at A.net. Most of the significant damage changes goes in one of the attribute lines that any secondary Mesmer have access to, and especially in illusion attribute with lots of new powerfull skills.
Have A.net tought in the really big possibility of anyone with Mesmer as secondary profession being equally able and efficient to play the role of a Mesmer primary at High-End PvE? (Cry of Pain being one good example of it btw)
Can something be done so when the balance finally goes live primary Mesmers have a considerable advantage over secondaries using Mesmers skills?
Sorry if I was hard to understand but I got really worried with this issue and I hope A.net can give some attention at this. And once again, thanks for this nice Mesmer balance
NerfHerder
Good Job Anet and TK! Eventhough its only a preview, there is some really promising stuff in there. And it really feels like there is some communication and Anet is listening to its player base. This makes me feel alot better about the future of GW.
I know some people think this will make the mesmer overpowered in PvE, but I dont. Remember old school Ritualists? Now that they have a buff they are brought into current meta, and I'm sure this will be the case for Mesmers. Even though im getting tired of the only way to farm the traveler trophies is SoS spirit spammer. I see the new niche for mesmers as a team player. Again, Good Job and keep up the good work!
I know some people think this will make the mesmer overpowered in PvE, but I dont. Remember old school Ritualists? Now that they have a buff they are brought into current meta, and I'm sure this will be the case for Mesmers. Even though im getting tired of the only way to farm the traveler trophies is SoS spirit spammer. I see the new niche for mesmers as a team player. Again, Good Job and keep up the good work!
JDRyder
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Originally Posted by TheGuildWarsPenguin
PvE only + nerf/balance mesmer enemies (Wind riders, etc.)
Buff everyone else to match Mesmers now. |
Sankt Hallvard
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Originally Posted by JDRyder
Why? Its awesome that you may actually have to remove hexes in Pve
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Cuilan
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Originally Posted by JDRyder
Why? Its awesome that you may actually have to remove hexes in Pve
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Jeydra
Nerf physicals and buff Elementalists already damnit ... as always with these PvE updates, I can't hate ANet's motivation and execution, but I hate how they miss out on the real problems.
drkn
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| Um, have you tried DoA? You need like 5-6 hex removals in the team and even then you can't keep up with what they're throwing at you. |
Cuilan
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Originally Posted by Jeydra
Nerf physicals and buff Elementalists already damnit ... as always with these PvE updates, I can't hate ANet's motivation and execution, but I hate how they miss out on the real problems.
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Gondrakif
So after this update mesmers will be able to mitigate damage through aoe interrupts/knockdowns/slow while providing some average-high aoe armor ignoring damage and degen on a fast rate (shorter recharge)?
Plus hm monsters are now somewhat interruptable...
This may be a bit biased but is every caster class out there supposed to outdamage elementalists (in hm)? *sigh*
Plus hm monsters are now somewhat interruptable...
This may be a bit biased but is every caster class out there supposed to outdamage elementalists (in hm)? *sigh*
Lishy
I can confirm this update is made of win
Testing changes to Wastrel's Worry, I can say it will make for very fun builds with the numerous changes made ;o
It's definitely one of my favorite of the new additions (Although to get full use out of it, you really need the right skills)
I'm sure this is one update to please everyone but the Naysayers
Testing changes to Wastrel's Worry, I can say it will make for very fun builds with the numerous changes made ;o
It's definitely one of my favorite of the new additions (Although to get full use out of it, you really need the right skills)
I'm sure this is one update to please everyone but the Naysayers
drkn
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| This may be a bit biased but is every caster class out there supposed to outdamage elementalists (in hm)? *sigh* |
To be honest, i always found meteor to be the best AoE interruption skill available up to this point - much easier to use than regular mesmer interrupts, with decent damage, low e-cost and AoE knockdown, unconditional. And it's really versatile.
When i thought about actually playing my farming ele, i've already prepared two builds for him - fire damage build for NM and some HM, and earth/water support/crowd control build for most HM. Even my ele heroes are not built around SF, but rather wards or AoE freezes/kds.
moriz
psychic instability looks to be sooooo much win.
Gondrakif
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Originally Posted by drkn
My girlfriend's first char was an ele. Frankly, i never thought of it as 'the ultimate nuker class', even though we came straight from Lineage 2 and she chose ele because she thought it is the main DD around, similar to SH/SPS/Sorc mix. Elementalist here, in GW, is a mage controlling the elements - pretty much that. I do agree that they need some tuning in HM (perhaps an enchantment in ES giving them some armor penetration or some ES means to induce cracked armor) but they're not focused around damage only.
To be honest, i always found meteor to be the best AoE interruption skill available up to this point - much easier to use than regular mesmer interrupts, with decent damage, low e-cost and AoE knockdown, unconditional. And it's really versatile. When i thought about actually playing my farming ele, i've already prepared two builds for him - fire damage build for NM and some HM, and earth/water support/crowd control build for most HM. Even my ele heroes are not built around SF, but rather wards or AoE freezes/kds. |
but this is getting out of subject, back on topic i'm glad to see that anet is holding this every-2-months-skill-update-schedule (last update was in February) but as others said there might be a bit too much power-creep in this one
Chocobo1
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| Psychic Distraction – now interrupts any skill, not just spells. The interrupted skill is disabled on your target and all nearby foes. |
Edit: Also, keep all of these changes away from PvP please, they are so insanely overpowered.
JDRyder
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Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard
Um, have you tried DoA? You need like 5-6 hex removals in the team and even then you can't keep up with what they're throwing at you.
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Originally Posted by Cuilan
Yes, and I've never had any problems with Wind Riders and nearly any of the mesmer foes in the game. Mindblade Spectre, perhaps, but overall I don't see most these improvements as in issue. Many players are also looking for challenge in PvE.
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On a side note, I love how everyone went right to wind riders rather than other NPC mesmers
aeronox
Well... it's on its way... but it feels dirty.
asb
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Originally Posted by Essence Snow
The only thing that bothers me.....these seem like they will all be abused by other classes more so than benefiting Mesmers. Hopefully they will realize this and put a "clause" in there if u will.
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Other than that, I'm happy about some of the skill updates, especially Stolen Speed and Empathy, but I'm not really a fan of the increased damage updates as it usually is very tantalizing to run them with other classes. But that's just the fear of them possibly being abuse by other classes and ending up having a contra-productive effect on the Mesmer's class speaking out of me. If they tie the effectiveness all Mesmer skills to FC to a certain extent, that's great. If they increase the recharge time of all Mesmer skills, but give FC a scalable HSR on them, even better. We'll see. Anyway, I'm psyched about how the update will turn out.
Gun Pierson
It's not included in the coming update but:
'Major changes to the smiting line'
Looking forward to that one.
As for the mesmer changes, you have to start somewhere and things can be toned down a bit when needed.
'Major changes to the smiting line'
Looking forward to that one.
As for the mesmer changes, you have to start somewhere and things can be toned down a bit when needed.
shoyon456
I like hearing this because:
1. Mesmers have needed this for a long time. As far as how well the updates will help them I can't say because my experience with Mesmers is limited.
2. They give the general timeline of the first half of May to roll out the update, but they make it explicitly clear that because of the extensiveness of the update, they cannot guarantee anything.
3. They explicitly communicate they are targetting PvE and will update PvP later on. Imagine all of the qq that would have gone on if they simply updated PvE but did not communicate this plan.
4. They say that they are working on other areas of interest (Dervs/Scythes, Paras, and Smiting), in parallel even though they will not be rolling out soon. It's good to hear that they're listening and trying to take up issues that players have pointed out.
1. Mesmers have needed this for a long time. As far as how well the updates will help them I can't say because my experience with Mesmers is limited.
2. They give the general timeline of the first half of May to roll out the update, but they make it explicitly clear that because of the extensiveness of the update, they cannot guarantee anything.
3. They explicitly communicate they are targetting PvE and will update PvP later on. Imagine all of the qq that would have gone on if they simply updated PvE but did not communicate this plan.
4. They say that they are working on other areas of interest (Dervs/Scythes, Paras, and Smiting), in parallel even though they will not be rolling out soon. It's good to hear that they're listening and trying to take up issues that players have pointed out.
Winterclaw
Better late than never I say. Lindsey and the current support team are finally getting things moving in the right direction so let's give them kudos where kudos are due.
October Jade
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Originally Posted by JDRyder
On a side note, I love how everyone went right to wind riders rather than other NPC mesmers
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