Was termination really appropriate? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Fear The Apocalypse

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2006

Project Flyswatter [SWAT]

N/

27 May 2010 at 19:49 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by code

It has also been said that they can terminate your account for any reason, and even for no reason.

Now grow up and get some english spelling lessons.

You lost your arguement so you attack the person who had a hand in defeating you... It is you who needs to grow up. GG

IlikeGW

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

27 May 2010 at 19:49 - 42

If they're lenient on anyone, it's a loophole that the bot makers would use as well to keep making new versions.

You blew it, you sabotaged your own achievements. End of the story.

Baobao23

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2008

27 May 2010 at 19:50 - 43

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaneOfMach

Bottom line is: Permament bans for people with no prior offenses might be a little harsh. If you've effectively found a way to stop botting and detect it, then the people that you've banned don't become much of a threat to the game anymore.

It really depends. I would say that banning a person who only botted like 6 months or maybe even 3 months ago (and stopped botting thereafter), shouldn't receive a permanent ban. I would think that a person who botted a month ago or 3 weeks ago would still merit a ban as people have been complaining about the bot spike so anet needs to set an example.

I'm actually wondering on how far back in time would someone be suspected of botting.

code

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2010

27 May 2010 at 19:50 - 44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Slydell

EDIT: Now that I think of it, the Mallyx exploit had people gaining access to a hidden outpost using hacks, THAT is a ban right there, along with the bot you mentioned.

But your first three examples? No.. they are not bannable.

Please re-read my post.

...

done?

...

Ok, now you know that no hack was involved.

I feel that I am allowed to post the steps to reproduce it here in this thread because of the age of the exploit and it already being fixed.

The "trick" was to get disconnected in The Ebony Citadel of Mallyx (Explorable Mission) at the same time as the party leader would press "Return to Outpost" after resigning. It would send you into the mission outpost the next time you were logging in, and you could ferry as many people to the place as you want.

This was actually discovered purely by accident, and the implications weren't known to most of the people involved.

jazilla

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

Guernsey Milking Coalition[MiLk]

E/Me

27 May 2010 at 19:50 - 45

Only at the end, do you understand. RIP botterz. Say hi to Gwen's mom for me in the U-Dub.

code

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2010

27 May 2010 at 19:51 - 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fear The Apocalypse

You lost your arguement so you attack the person who had a hand in defeating you... It is you who needs to grow up. GG

If you go back and read his post, I was merely echoing his words. (the "grow up" sentence)

Sarevok Thordin

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

Scotland

W/N

27 May 2010 at 19:51 - 47

Anyone who botted KNOWS that it was wrong.

.dll injecting is a clear rule breaker.

Winterclaw

Wark!!!

Join Date: May 2005

Florida

W/

27 May 2010 at 19:52 - 48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

they knew exactly what could happen

That. Botters know it is against the rules and thought they could get away with it. Reality just hit them with a scythe... :\

Frankly someone should have hit them with a ban stick instead. I mean who uses a ban scythe? Maybe a luddite farmer but that's about it. It's these sort of anachronisms that is holding the gaming industry back. Minus one billion points for Anet for using the wrong weapon.

Fear The Apocalypse

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2006

Project Flyswatter [SWAT]

N/

27 May 2010 at 19:53 - 49

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarevok thordin

anyone who botted knows that it was wrong.

.

...................this^

code

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2010

27 May 2010 at 19:53 - 50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarevok Thordin

Anyone who botted KNOWS that it was wrong.

.dll injecting is a clear rule breaker.

Not everyone injected .dlls for botting.

Do you realize that some people might have been developing new mods/addons for Guild Wars?

Kydd

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2006

[eyes]

27 May 2010 at 19:54 - 51

Quote:

Originally Posted by code

Oh come on. No one knew of the repercussions or they would not have botted in the first place.

It doesn't help that there were Anti-Bot threads lingering on the forums for months without any sign of acknowledgement from ArenaNet.

But maybe this is how ArenaNet expects to make business; apply enough psychological pressure on your customers and get them to breach your contract and have to buy a new game box. After all it's a Win-Win situation for them, they get to free up server space OR get paid for it a second time.

lmao anet was pressuring people into botting.

Good joke =)

EDIT: On topic no it wasn't too harsh.

oscarmk

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

27 May 2010 at 19:55 - 52

Quote:

Originally Posted by code

Oh come on. No one knew of the repercussions or they would not have botted in the first place.

It doesn't help that there were Anti-Bot threads lingering on the forums for months without any sign of acknowledgement from ArenaNet.

But maybe this is how ArenaNet expects to make business; apply enough psychological pressure on your customers and get them to breach your contract and have to buy a new game box. After all it's a Win-Win situation for them, they get to free up server space OR get paid for it a second time.

No one knew of the repercussions?. No, what happened is every single person that botted knew this, but they just though nothing would be done.

code

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2010

27 May 2010 at 19:57 - 53

Quote:

Originally Posted by oscarmk

No one knew of the repercussions?. No, what happened is every single person that botted knew this, but they just though nothing would be done.

"Thought nothing would be done because of ArenaNet's very stance on the matter recently" ~ "Did not know of the repercussions their actions would have"

Del

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2009

In a van, down by the river.

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO if I know, ask Lynette.

R/

27 May 2010 at 19:59 - 54

Quote:

Originally Posted by code

Now grow up and get some english spelling lessons.

Oh no! i left a t out of botters, i guess i am so much dumber and more immature than some dipshit kid on the internet whining about people getting banned for breaking rules and making fallacious arguments. silly me.

Gennadios

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2009

N/A

27 May 2010 at 20:01 - 55

I won't comment on the harshness of the botting bans, but 4k banned accounts will definitely preserve some of the coolness of the HOM bonuses for the players that are still around as that will leave ~2.5k less players sporting them in GW2.

Aside from that, holiday item botting was brought up as an offense that ppl felt wasn't deserving of a ban. That's a pretty cheap argument as non-botted raptor farming can easily yield 1.5k title points over any given weekend, and you can buy 500-750 points of each for less than 100k. Each title can be gotten in 3-4 months of just casually playing and saving, that's not unrealistic enough to justify botting.

code

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2010

27 May 2010 at 20:01 - 56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

Oh no! i left a t out of botters, i guess i am so much dumber and more immature than some dipshit kid on the internet whining about people getting banned for breaking rules and making fallacious arguments. silly me.

Make that arrogance and lack of capitalization.

sixdartbart

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

Peace Machine GRRR [DiE]

W/N

27 May 2010 at 20:01 - 57

Quote:

Originally Posted by code

Is it fair that those who were unwise enough to download candy farming bots were permanently banned?

YES IT IS
That is like saying someone who robs a gas station is somehow different from the guy who robbed a bank.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaneOfMach

This is more or less for people who have played the game normally for years.

I hate to break it to you but CHEATING and using BOTS is not how you play a game normally. {well maybe it's how YOU play normally but it's not how games are intended to be played}

I'm amused at seeing how many of the people on here QQing about the bans being the same people who are generally asshats on the forums, I think there may be a character issue involved.

I know it will do no good but the people bending over backwards to justify their cheating should stop spending so much time trying to make excuses and maybe look at yourselves as to why you don't know the difference between right and wrong. {yes it is a black and white issue}

fireflyry

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

New Zealand

A/D

27 May 2010 at 20:04 - 58

This is better entertainment than those Hollywood divorces when the cheating partner forgets about the prenuptial.

Opps.

Del

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2009

In a van, down by the river.

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO if I know, ask Lynette.

R/

27 May 2010 at 20:04 - 59

Quote:

Originally Posted by code

Make that arrogance and lack of capitalization.

capitalization is srs bsns. just like being a retarded shitter defending botters eh? grow up.

code

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2010

27 May 2010 at 20:05 - 60

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gennadios

I won't comment on the harshness of the botting bans, but 4k banned accounts will definitely preserve some of the coolness of the HOM bonuses for the players that are still around as that will leave ~2.5k less players sporting them in GW2.

Aside from that, holiday item botting was brought up as an offense that ppl felt wasn't deserving of a ban. That's a pretty cheap argument as non-botted raptor farming can easily yield 1.5k title points over any given weekend, and you can buy 500-750 points of each for less than 100k. Each title can be gotten in 3-4 months of just casually playing and saving, that's not unrealistic enough to justify botting.

It's not those items being cheap so to say, that justifies it (and in fact nothing justifies it). I would say the atmosphere that ArenaNet created in their competitive game by allowing players to keep using bots over a long period of time in Players vs Player combat, without ANY sign of acknowledgement is what has undoubtedly tipped quite a few people over the edge.

You do relate as to how being thrown off by other players cheating against you can emotionally weaken many people? This is what I'm talking about.

The irony of the whole story is that in the end, those that are the most attached to the game will be the most likely to fall for it and lose their achievements permanently, but the sorrow about the game will never leave them.

Polgara Val

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2007

TSR

Mo/Me

27 May 2010 at 20:10 - 61

This thread is highly amusing, im sure the mods and probably Anet are amused by this superb display of feeling sorry for thyselves.

Please continue.

Pol

Bob Slydell

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2007

27 May 2010 at 20:16 - 62

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorenna

just because someone cheats on a GAME does not mean they dont have morals or ethics..if u played monopoly with a friend..which is also a game btw also and they cheated u wouldnt say OMFG IM NEVER GOING TO PLAY WITH YOU AGAIN YOU CHEATED! if i was playing poker for real money and someone cheated..thats different. but i dont play guild wars for money. i play for fun if others bot it doesnt hurt me ..its wrong though because its against the user agreement and thats why i asked me friends not to do it but they diddnt listen. i buy my things from the ncsoft store and i still get them weither people bot or not. if i want a high end mini or wep i save for it and i feel better at the end of the day cause i earned it through running/farming or whatever else i do. not through botting or scaming or power trading which in my opinion is wrong cause it is at the expense of others. with running they wouldnt pay if they diddnt want to so i see no problem with it.
i can see your point though about punishing everyone it did need to happen but i still wish they would have done a very long ban and taken their stuff and a warning..those who did it again arent gonna learn so perma ban em. some of them might not have done it again. i know all of my friends bar 1 wouldnt have..but that guy i think deserves the ban. 1 of my friends did 1 once never again and hes banned. i could make more friends your right..but ive been playing since april 2005. there is not 1 thing in this game i havnt done besides the new content they reciently added..so the only reason i played was to play with friends their just isnt any point anymore cause i cant see this new content with them..i could make new friends yeh..but they wont be the friends ive been playing guild wars with for 2-4 years. point is they arent there i dont wanna be either if we all find a new game together that we can play even if i have to pay monthly i will. they were in the wrong yeh and they needed to be punished some how but their still my friends and have done nothing wrong towards me.

They already had their "Warning", it's called a 5 year old EULA.

Gennadios

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2009

N/A

27 May 2010 at 20:18 - 63

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorenna

just because someone cheats on a GAME does not mean they dont have morals or ethics..if u played monopoly with a friend..which is also a game btw also and they cheated u wouldnt say OMFG IM NEVER GOING TO PLAY WITH YOU AGAIN YOU CHEATED! [MASSIVELY HARD TO READ UNPARAGRAPHED WALL OF TEXT FOLLOWING, POSTER NEEDS TO LEARN TO SPLIT IDEAS INTO SECTIONS]

Actually I would. I actually play boardgames and have LAN Parties with friends on a regular basis. We may intentionally dick around and sabotage each other in games, difference is, that kind of behavior doesn't require changing game files or rules for boardgames, and the victimized player is more than capable of retaliation.

The fact that you'd even consider doing something to 'friends' you actually interact with... wow. Talk about lack of scruples.

Whisper Evenstar

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2006

NYC

Governors Of Destruction [GOD]

E/

27 May 2010 at 20:18 - 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaneOfMach

I'm pretty sure if Anet just issued a 2 week ban on everyone who was suspected of botting and possibly wiping their platinum/ectos, it would've been more than enough to kill the momentum while still giving the players a chance to reflect on their misdemeanors.

There is no reflection... there is only ban

code

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2010

27 May 2010 at 20:19 - 65

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Slydell

They already had their "Warning", it's called a 5 year old EULA.

5 year old EULA that was seemingly not being enforced

Karate Jesus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2008

Texas

Reign of Judgment [RoJ]

Me/

27 May 2010 at 20:19 - 66

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Slydell

They already had their "Warning", it's called a 5 year old EULA.

^ this. If you are whining about the bans for botting, then you were most likely botting. All of the rest of us are happy. You should see the celebrations in some of the PvP guilds I play in.

Most of us are very, very happy about this.

code

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2010

27 May 2010 at 20:20 - 67

It is very hard for me not to think of Godwin's Law reading this thread because the replies from the "innocent" people seem to be calling for it.

Bob Slydell

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2007

27 May 2010 at 20:22 - 68

Quote:

Originally Posted by code

5 year old EULA that was seemingly not being enforced

For the last time, It doesn't matter if it was enforced or not. It stands for End User License Agreement, meaning the end user - you - need to agree to the license given. And if you don't do so... well you're shit out of luck.

Del

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2009

In a van, down by the river.

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO if I know, ask Lynette.

R/

27 May 2010 at 20:23 - 69

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Slydell

For the last time, It doesn't matter if it was enforced or not. It stands for End User License Agreement, meaning the end user - you - need to agree to the license given. And if you don't do so... well you're shit out of luck.

Quoted for truth.

code

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2010

27 May 2010 at 20:25 - 70

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Slydell

For the last time, It doesn't matter if it was enforced or not. It stands for End User License Agreement, meaning the end user - you - need to agree to the license given. And if you don't do so... well you're shit out of luck.

There are customer protection laws in place for that very reason.
At the time when you bought the game, you were not aware of its EULA.
IANAL but I recall there even being an intellectual property law that makes permanent bans from any one-time-paid service illegal.

But then again, this is a game, so there is not always enough reason to pursure legal matters.

IlikeGW

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

27 May 2010 at 20:28 - 71

Quote:

Originally Posted by code

5 year old EULA that was seemingly not being enforced

Oh well if there's not a cop standing next to a car go ahead and steal it and never have another worry about it.

tcratty

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2008

6 feet under

forever angels

E/

27 May 2010 at 20:28 - 72

yes they got what they deserved THEY ARE CHEATERS and not only did they do it with one account they did it with numerous accounts (i have seen people say they had up to 15 accounts) i mean really it wasnt enough that they were CHEATING on one account they went out and spent real money so they cheat even more to get fake money so yea they got what they deserved they should also ban there IP address so they cant do it again as far as im concerned once a CHEATER always a CHEATER

Bob Slydell

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2007

27 May 2010 at 20:29 - 73

Quote:

Originally Posted by code

There are customer protection laws in place for that very reason.
At the time when you bought the game, you were not aware of its EULA.
IANAL but I recall there even being an intellectual property law that makes permanent bans from any one-time-paid service illegal.

But then again, this is a game, so there is not always enough reason to pursure legal matters.

Cut the stupid bullshit nonsense already. When you go buy an MMORPG from a store, 100% of time time the MMO is run by a company who states it is against it's EULA to bot. End of story dude. But if you want to keep mumbling on and making yourself look like a bloody fool, be my guest.

code

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2010

27 May 2010 at 20:30 - 74

Quote:

Originally Posted by IlikeGW

Oh well if there's not a cop standing next to a car go ahead and steal it and never have another worry about it.

Correction: There is a cop standing next to the car and watches a bunch of people steal it *completely ignoring them*, but if you steal a bike he will sentence you to death.

Proof by analogy is fraud.

cormac ap dunn

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2007

Mystic Empires III [xMEx]

Me/

27 May 2010 at 20:34 - 75

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Slydell

For the last time, It doesn't matter if it was enforced or not. It stands for End User License Agreement, meaning the end user - you - need to agree to the license given. And if you don't do so... well you're shit out of luck.

This man has the win. Sorry code, but hard facts win over childish hopes everytime.

Karate Jesus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2008

Texas

Reign of Judgment [RoJ]

Me/

27 May 2010 at 20:35 - 76

This thread has officially become a joke.

code, you should stop. This isn't even funny. If you botted, then it sucks to be you. If you didn't, then why do you care? Rejoice with the rest of us.

SunfallE

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2009

West Texas

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

R/Rt

27 May 2010 at 20:40 - 77

Yes termination was appropriate. It's amazing how people will suddenly want a second chance or lesser sentence once they've actually been caught cheating. The solution is simple, don't do it in the first place. Not that hard really.

code

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2010

27 May 2010 at 20:41 - 78

I am not defending bots, I am defending the *gasp* people behind the accounts that got permanently suspended.

Ka Tet

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

Pita Bread And Scud Missiles Ai[iiii]

27 May 2010 at 20:43 - 79

Quote:

Originally Posted by code

I would say the atmosphere that ArenaNet created in their competitive game by allowing players to keep using bots over a long period of time in Players vs Player combat, without ANY sign of acknowledgement is what has undoubtedly tipped quite a few people over the edge.

I agree.
Rough analogy: Imagine that you start an amateur MMA league with a rule of no low blows. Imagine further that some competitors disregard those rules and hit their opponents below the belt to gain an advantage. Imagine that these people go unpunished for these actions and are allowed to continue competing and the governing body maintains absolute silence on these events.
What's going to happen? Many competitors will quit the league. Others will become frustrated with the situation and begin using low blows themselves. Some will just continue to get hit in the nuts and accept it.
Does this mean that anyone hitting below the belt is justified? No.
Does this mean that the governing body is just as complicit as those who used low blows? Absolutely.
When you thank Anet/NC for the bans, also make sure to thank them for encouraging people to repeatedly hit you in balls.

Bob Slydell

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2007

27 May 2010 at 20:44 - 80

Quote:

Originally Posted by code

I am not defending bots, I am defending the *gasp* people behind the accounts that got permanently suspended.

Why?????????