Was termination really appropriate?

@ kanuks

probably a troll post, no one is THAT pathetic

so you keep trying to make the same tortured point in multiple threads why?

Nope
You missed some of the gem quality threads that goofy had deleted last night.

Sadly I think he is serious.

In case you have forgotten what you agreed to when you clicked on I Agree, I am supplying a few excerpts from guildwars.com Legal page.
Rules of Conduct

22. You may not use any third-party program (such as a "bot") in order to automate gameplay functions, including playing, chatting, interacting, or gathering gold or items within Guild Wars. You may not assist, relay, or store gold or items for other players who are using these processes.

24. While participating in Plaver-vs-Player (PvP) gameplay, you will not participate in any form of match manipulation. Match manipulation is defined as any action taken to fix or manipulate the outcome of a match or alter or manipulate the rankings or ratings of the ladder. This also includes disrupting other people's game experience by not actively participating in matches in good faith, a.k.a leeching.

Permanent Account Terminations

Obviously, we do not terminate the accounts of Guild Wars players without cause. We exercise careful judgment in every case of an account termination, and we will use the mark system instead of outright account termination if that seems sufficient to address the misbehavior. However, we will review breaches of the Rules of Conduct and the User Agreement with close attention to the most flagrant forms of rules abuse. In instances like these, particularly when we perceive a risk of substantial real or potential harm to the Guild Wars community or to the game's stability, an account can and will be permanently terminated.


User Agreement

(h) Former Members. Members whose Accounts have been terminated by NC Interactive may not access the Service in any manner or for any reason, including through any other Account, without the express written permission of NC Interactive. Accounts accessed by Former Members are subject to immediate termination. NC Interactive reserves the right to use any means necessary, including those in section 4(i) to identify and remove Former Members.

(i) Related Accounts. If NC Interactive terminates an Account, NC Interactive may terminate any other Accounts that share the same member name, phone number, email address, postal address, Internet Protocol address, or credit card number with the terminated Account.

I believe the meta for this is "you got dhuumed"

You people are ridiculous. ANet needs to invest a lot of resources (read: money) to catch you criminals. Spending that much money to give 2 week bans is pointless.

Moreover, if punishmen for botting was 2 weeks, or even 2 months, and chance to be discovered so low, then half of GW would be botting. If they catch you, who cares, you go to summer vacation and when you get back botting here we go.

you keep replying to me and asking me questions for me to further expand on the same tortued point why?

The weird thing is hardly anyone has mentioned this in-game.

If I had personally observed people complaining"My buddy got banned unjustly, where the heck did half my guild go, etc, etc" I'd be more willing to contemplate some of the issues banned people have raised but from what I can see the sky is hardly falling.

I'd go so far as to say the majority haven't even noticed this.

The problem with that is that if I boted for a few minutes,then decided to stop and look into the light (way before the ban),and I didn't gain any gold or tittle point from it,and it was the first time I ever try it...do you think I deserve the same ban as that guy that botted for all his hours,got all tittles with a bot,all money with the bot and has 91332243 ectos?

I took back my actions just in time,and I'm sure a few people out there did too...of course,I doubt A-net could have known this so I don't blame them either...Theres no one to blame in my situation other than myself,for those few minutes...but still...a perma ban..

I don't mean to sound cruel, but it's a little late for, "I'm sorry."

I do agree with you, though, first time offenses should be heavy, but not permanent. Perhaps wipe the character and force them to start from square one. I do however see the flaw in this idea, but I just think a, "I botted for 15 minutes and got perma'd" is a tad on the overkill side.

Constant botters deserve the ban. Anyone who bots deserves some form of punishment, but to what degree I do not know. I am torn between many feelings, if people feel they'd have a "light" punishment it would encourage people to bot, and how if every botter, regardless of time spent botting got perma'd, it'd discourage it.

And that's all they needed to know.

doesn't every guilty person say the same thing? "i saw the light, i'll never do it again..." funny that your couple of minutes and some pure bot account owners years of farming have the same end reaction... "It wasn't my fault!" a second or a lifetime all depends on which end of the barrel you stand... the deed was done, you knew upon using the bot this day could come. well, justice served.

I said sorry way before the ban...i mean WAY before



Same as above...what I'm saying is that using a bot itself shouldn't be ban,but gaining ANYTHING from it should (even drunktard bot,anything) but i gained nothing...and it was my 1st offence.

Suddenly no one belives in one's ability to correct themselves? WTF are the prisons for then, all prisoners should be just wasted in gas chambers straight away, because obviously there is no chance of them trying to live honest life after the crime, ever?

quoted for truth!! nuff said

The botters knew for years that they were engaging in illegal activities. Every time they logged in to GW they were reminded of their illegal acts.

So that's probably an average of 2500 warnings per botter. They need 2501?

Think of it this way. If botters only got suspended, they'd just spend their time off scheming of ways to bot again without getting caught.

Good riddance.

This thread is just beating a dead horse...take it up with Anet through support... I vote to please close this.

i don't really get it either, but i think it has something to do with being the cheap n easy solution.

If you used the bot, you gained something. Explain to me how you can use a bot but gain nothing.
Now what you did with what you gained - threw it away or kept it - this is another issue.

Sure, people who used bot for 2 years and people who used bot for 2 days did not make the same degree of damage. But Anet can't give 200 death penalties to those who used bots for 2 years. It's 1 death penalty for all. And I don't think they can check what exactly you did with a bot, and whether your story is true or not. They have some indicators but that's all.


Offtopic but here we go.

* As someone whose profession is law I can tell you this: prisons are a bad practice of modern age. There's nothing beneficial about prisons. Prisons are made by weak people. When you lack courage to kill someone, you put him in prison. Prisons are supported by lazy people: when you don't want to do something right with more effort, choose the easy way - just put someone into prison. When I say there's nothing beneficial about prison I mean exactly that - nothing. There is no study that shows absolutely any positive aspect of imprisonment. Hard labor + death penalty + social work = this is much better system than prison system. Prisons breed bad habbits - I mean, good luck on improving your personality when you're surrounded by scum and criminals. You also don't benefit to the society - you waste resources and don't produce any. Prisons are a byproduct of "polite" "politically correct" mentality. They are not a solution. It's procrastination.

* Ability to "correct oneself" is very overrated. See: recidivism. In international terms, even UN formed a committee after it noticed 50% of conflicts in the world are renewed within 5 years or so. Yes, some people will make a mistake and not again. But some people are inherently corrupt - these people don't exist according to modern age philosophy. In practice, they do.

* Just because you made a mistake and understood it was wrong, doesn't mean everything is suddenly fixed. I'm speaking in general.



So yeah, ideally, you would use a drunkard click bot for a day, ANet would notice you, and ideally you would get that character deleted, or would get 1 month ban, or would lose 100k in gold. Ideally.
But ANet isn't getting payed to be a judge and a jury. With limited resources, they need to send clear message: don't do it. Any of it. If the message they send is "you'll just be banned for a few days, but if we don't find you, you can possibly max out 20 of your titles within a week, with a bot". What kind of message would that be?

So, given the circumstances, instant ban is the best thing to do, unless Association of Botters aggrees to pay real world money to ANet, monthly, so that ANet can properly evaluate each account, and sentence.


Are you ready to pay real world money, to improve ANets bot-hunting and judicial service? I didn't think so.

No. The bottom line is that you need to accept responsibility for your actions and stop complaining about the consequences. It boggles my mind to see so many people on guru banned and then complaining, EVEN WHEN THE MAIN THREADS IN RIVERSIDE WERE DEMANDs FOR ANET TO BAN BOTS FOR THE PAST MONTH. You should know better.


This thread is just a excuse to vent frustration at Anet, and I think it should be closed.

You gain nothing by stopping it before it even reaches the explorable area.

op mad b/c banned.
botters gonna bot.
suspensions would make everyone think anet goes easy on botters.
ban shows who's boss.

Really? I thought you gain some time, like, he brings you near the portal.

And come on give me a break, you go through all the trouble of setting a bot, you go into the game and... prevent the bot from reaching explorable area? And ANet bans you for what? Finds you how?


Seriously, if anything is worse than botters it's dumb botters and liar botters. Of all you pathetic botters only one, 1, was adult enough to admit a mistake and move on. No big deal. But the rest of you have typical hardcore criminal mentality and I wouldn't want to have any friendly relations with you IRL or in any game.

Calling BS on this. A two-week ban and a removal of funds from botters seems like it would just be asking for botters to bot the hell out of the game, in order to remake all of their lost wealth. Long-time botters are probably not likely to come back to the game and actually play it themselves.

Pretty sure there are bots for vanquishing, or at least there have been bots in the works. I can't prove that or source it, not because it would be breaking GWGuru's rules, but because I don't know where exactly to find those bots. I just feel like lots of people have spoken about them like they really exist.

If they do exist, it would be just as easy to get cartography using that bot, and would also be easy to generate bots for missions. However, the reward of developing a bot that can complete one mission isn't comparable to the reward of developing a bot that can vanquish an area.

I do believe there is a difference between a person who has been botting for months to make mass profits and maybe someone who grabbed a bot and ran it for an hour to see what it was like. ANet can make the decision on individual cases for whether they were doing it with the intention of utilizing it for long-term gain or as a test drive.

At face value though, bots are against the rules, punishment for use is a ban, and those are not facts that are a secret to anyone. If you took the risk to run a bot, for any reason or duration, you should never be surprised to find your account closed.

Setting up the bot took me less than 2 minutes...and now it is wrong to SAY what you actually did...

What I did is set up the bot,use it,then take back my actions before anything wrong happened...

I suspect A-net bans for dll injection,and even if I did it once,they have no way of knowing how much I gained...

And please,stop being so hostile...I would be honest like that guy and admit I botted and gained something IF I gained anything. I'm not trying to pick fights or anything,I'm just telling my story.

If this is true then I really need to get off this forum and begin advocating for stricter pre-employment screening and more comprehensive psychological exams for law enforcement. I'm not saying our current criminal justice system is good, but are you really advocating murdering anyone convicted of a crime?

Are you really saying having sex with 4yr old kids is fine? Don't you see a problem with that?

Yea, well, robber who got caught didn't gain anything either.

Don't get me wrong, I see your point, but see my reply to freedom_razor.

In short yes, if you as innocent as you say then support will set you free.

You may think it's for one infraction but what about all the other infractions you aren't telling us?

There are none. All I have used for more than 5 minutes is Textmod and Multilaunch,which is OK with A-net,as long as it doesn't do anything other than visual happiness(according to them)

Not true, you gained a ban.

But if you're seriously saying you only ever used a bot once, and you stopped botting before it even left the out post... then yeah, go beg to support, they may review the case (and piss themselves laughing).

The people who are dragging these threads down are the ones are are screaming "You broke the EULA, you should be banned" and then plugging their ears while kicking and screaming like children so they can't hear what anyone else is saying. There is nothing wrong with that point of view but having 700 people in every thread repeat it just bogs down the conversation and prevents any real discussions from happening.

The OP has a point. I think a lot of the people who got caught might not have been doing the same things as the people we think of when we think of botters. I think some of these people were perma banned for minor bot use such as just testing a bot out of curiosity or running a farm bot for a single day then realising it wasn't worth it. Sure these people did the wrong thing. Some of them probably even hurt the game in some way (which is easy to do without breaking the EULA). These people broke the EULA and that is a banable offence, almost none of them are contesting that so stop saying it as if it is new information. What many of them are asking, and some people who didn't get banned are also thinking, should every single ban be a permanent ban? Was this the best option to take against each individual?

In most societies people are given second chances for errors in judgement. Humans make mistakes, it's a reality. A-Net has a variety of actions they take against accounts which break the rules, bans just being one of them. If this recent group of banings simply hit people who had farm bots running 24/7 or people who abused PvP bots to interrupt or farm faction in arenas, I wouldn't have much of a problem with them being banned. I know people who bought gold (which is about the same as botting) got caught and got an account suspension. Their gold was cleared from their account but they had already bough lots of weapons and armour they were able to keep. Why is a suspension used in this scenario, whereas a ban is used in a botting scenario?

I think there is a case to be made for people who broke the rules, but had less dramatic infringements. I think it's a fair question to ask if a blanket perma ban across all infringers is the best action they could have taken, or if there were better options. I also think A-Net had this discussion internally (instead of plugging their ears and kicking and screaming like children about EULA breaches) and decided this was the best action to take.

Yea,insult the "botters" of being immature,then post stuff like that. (ofcourse,most botters are immature)

Please,if your going to quote me,do so by replying with a smart answer,not a

"Lul [email protected] ur a liaur go ask for anutz help crybaby lulz bai!"

Also,the fact that I was banned doesn't prove I gained anything from botting...The detection of bots was (probably) done with dll injection detection and,since I did it once,I was banned.


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Read his post,then read this quote,then his post,then this quote...until you get it. +100k rep if it was possible.

Absolutely not, I'm saying I don't want your crazy ass trying to murder shoplifters.

ah look, the voice of maturity speaks again. he didn't go that far YOU did, then again he didn't earn a ban YOU did. YOU chose to break the rules, YOU recieved a punishment, YOU are responsible for appealing the ban with support. the choice to air your dirty laundry in a forum means YOU are subject to public opinion. since you started with your "don't i deserve a second chance?" crap in these forums you have achieved nothing more then the overall criticisms of the community in general. methinks your rally of support has died, is buried and is never to resurrect again.

Awww c'mon, I support the guy. The punishment should be served depending on the severity of the offence. You and so many ppl here, would you like, next time when you say ' I'm sorry I won't do it again ' to have your life terminated or would you you prefer some other form of punishment?

I consider it mature to stop a bad action just before it happens.

I'm more than OK with opinions and criticism,but I'm tired of people just clicking the reply button without reading what I said..more than half of the replies have been

"You deserved it,you gained money from the bot and you deserved it"

Did I gain anything? For the 1000000000000th,no.

I'm not looking for support,stop blabering and guessing stuff. This is what made A-net ban people like me. Guessing.

As I said,I'm not posting here to get my account back,I'm not posting here for Q_Qing,I'm not posting here for support,I'm posting here because I just plain want others to know what happened to my account,and I want to know what they think.

the ironing....

If you were the one getting botted in PvP, would you say that the guy on the other end is a severe offender? even if its his first time or millionth time using the bot, he did damage to everyones play, style, and overall enjoyment of the game. so unless you want a team of bot vs a team of bots ( go buy a sim) you deal with the overall action the same way each time. its the same program, you give him 2 weeks, he moves to a less detectable bot, message sent? change your method of cheating, not the overall behavior... welcome to the first bot, the gateway to more effective botting.

Yes perma-ban is the way to do it, if ArenaNet had been soft, and given botters/cheaters back their accounts, they just repeat the offence, because they know they get their account back.

I didn't bot on PVP....all my botting did was walk about 20 steps,and I get the same ban as the guy that earned 200 ectos,a butload of minipets,tittles,etc.

What about a 2 week ban,then a perma ban if the offence is repeated?With probation that will include HIGH monitoring?

Ofcourse,with the exeption of about 3500 of the people that botted 24/7,I think this is a good idea.

I don't want you praying on 4yr old kids, you pedophile. Stop trying to make pedophilia look ok, it's not.