Hi,
Some players who got banned for botting decided to buy new accounts trough the NCSoft online store.
The players who used the same credit card or paypall they used to buy their old, banned, accounts with got banned straight after they paid.
Is this even legal, buying a product only to have it terminated an hour later?
Players who got banned get their new accounts banned too.
niek2004
MelechRic
It seems dicey. It would have been better if the account was closed and the money refunded. Otherwise it seems a bit like fraud on Anet's part.
I suspect it's more likely an overzealous ban script or someone is just trolling to try and make Anet look bad.
I suspect it's more likely an overzealous ban script or someone is just trolling to try and make Anet look bad.
flyinhigh
who knows if its legal but if they paid for it with a credit card, they should put a stop payment, and let the credit company fight them.
chadS
Almost 100% it's not. They never botted on that account therefor they have no reason to ban it.
keli
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Originally Posted by chadS
Almost 100% it's not. They never botted on that account therefor they have no reason to ban it.
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headlesshobbs
While I don't think it's based on your card number, they can issue bans on your IP configuration to ensure troublemakers don't have a way to come back unless they jump through hoops in order to do so.
MisterB
They should request a refund. I'm not sure if the charges would be returned, but it's worth a shot, especially since NCSoft denied them service immediately.
The rules (GW EULA) state that banned account holders are subject to immediate termination of any future accounts they purchase for any NCSoft product prior to seeking permission first. I don't know whether there is any legal conflict with that policy.
The rules (GW EULA) state that banned account holders are subject to immediate termination of any future accounts they purchase for any NCSoft product prior to seeking permission first. I don't know whether there is any legal conflict with that policy.
Phineas
If they have not broken the EULA on the new account then the ban is unjust. Chances are that they may re-offend but that should not be assumed.
IlikeGW
If you bot you're the same class as a gold selling farmer and they have to keep you out of the system.
sixdartbart
From Guild Wars User Agreement
http://us.ncsoft.com/en/legal/user-a...agreement.html
http://us.ncsoft.com/en/legal/user-a...agreement.html
Quote:
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(h) Former Members. Members whose Accounts have been terminated by NC Interactive may not access the Service in any manner or for any reason, including through any other Account, without the express written permission of NC Interactive. Accounts accessed by Former Members are subject to immediate termination. NC Interactive reserves the right to use any means necessary, including those in section 4(i) to identify and remove Former Members. (i) Related Accounts. If NC Interactive terminates an Account, NC Interactive may terminate any other Accounts that share the same member name, phone number, email address, postal address, Internet Protocol address, or credit card number with the terminated Account. |
Ninja Ninja
It sounds like an ip address thing, any account used on that botting ip address gets banned.
MisterB
Right of refusal of service is pretty standard, at least in the US. However, they should instead deny any purchases; at least they should do that for the online store.
Purchasing a new account is actually a breach of the UA for account holders who have had their accounts terminated because of a UA violation.
Purchasing a new account is actually a breach of the UA for account holders who have had their accounts terminated because of a UA violation.
Mora
(h) Former Members. Members whose Accounts have been terminated by NC Interactive may not access the Service in any manner or for any reason, including through any other Account, without the express written permission of NC Interactive. Accounts accessed by Former Members are subject to immediate termination. NC Interactive reserves the right to use any means necessary, including those in section 4(i) to identify and remove Former Members.
Maybe they should read these things?
Maybe they should read these things?
Gennadios
When you're purchasing a game, you're not purchasing the software, you're purchasing the EULA, and in GW's case, an extra instance (Account) of the EULA.
As was posted above, ANet's already got it covered that they can ban any new accounts of already banned players. It's kind of shitty, but it is legal.
You can still go to Paypal or your credit card and tell them to block the charge because no services were issued. It may be legal, but it is shady and the pruchaser's CC will get their back in that case.
As was posted above, ANet's already got it covered that they can ban any new accounts of already banned players. It's kind of shitty, but it is legal.
You can still go to Paypal or your credit card and tell them to block the charge because no services were issued. It may be legal, but it is shady and the pruchaser's CC will get their back in that case.
R_Frost
if your dumb enough to bot and get caught, then turn around and buy a new account using the same credit card that was attached to 1 or more banned accounts, you deserve to get instant banned no matter how wrong you might think it is.
Firebaall
....
heh..repost
heh..repost
C4RB1N3
Banned members cannot rejoin once banned. As per the NCsoft User Agreement :
(i) Former Members. Members whose Accounts have been terminated by NC Interactive may not access the Service in any manner or for any reason, including through any other Account, without the express written permission of NC Interactive. Accounts accessed by Former Members are subject to immediate termination. NC Interactive reserves the right to use any means necessary, including those in section 4(j), to identify and remove Former Members.
(j) Related Accounts. If NC Interactive terminates an Account, NC Interactive may terminate any other Accounts that share the same member name, phone number, email address, postal address, Internet Protocol address, or credit card number with the terminated Account.
(i) Former Members. Members whose Accounts have been terminated by NC Interactive may not access the Service in any manner or for any reason, including through any other Account, without the express written permission of NC Interactive. Accounts accessed by Former Members are subject to immediate termination. NC Interactive reserves the right to use any means necessary, including those in section 4(j), to identify and remove Former Members.
(j) Related Accounts. If NC Interactive terminates an Account, NC Interactive may terminate any other Accounts that share the same member name, phone number, email address, postal address, Internet Protocol address, or credit card number with the terminated Account.
SunfallE
I'm not surprised really. Why would you ban someone who willingly exploited the game, only to turn around and do nothing when they try to get back in? If they really want to play without botting, then they can take the time to contact ANet to get permission.
Though doing that would mean ANet knows who they are and botting is out of the question since they'd keep an eye on them. By not doing that, it makes me question if they were going to go straight after all, to be honest.
Though doing that would mean ANet knows who they are and botting is out of the question since they'd keep an eye on them. By not doing that, it makes me question if they were going to go straight after all, to be honest.
Klimtog
This sounds pretty bad, but before you all jump on the "omg they're stealing money" bandwagon here, take into account that it may just be a bug in their automated system or something they never accounted for. Once it's brought to their attention, then see what they do about it and make your judgments.
Golgotha
There is a potential of money loss using this logic. Blizzard likely makes all its current profits from D2 from banned users repurchasing. Let them churn accounts and you make more money. Simple. Then again, those banned will likely find some way to get back on anyway.
Smith23
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Originally Posted by chadS
Almost 100% it's not. They never botted on that account therefor they have no reason to ban it.
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Unlike Youtube who seem to take stuff down without looking into it first, Anet isn't like that. They made it clear that the 3,700 accounts they banned had been monitored closely for a while to see if the player was indeed using a bot. Once they have proof to 100% decide they where using a bot then they ban them. Anet just doesn't pick out random players and kick them off for no reason.
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Originally Posted by Trancey
ANet is digging their selves into a deeper hole day by day.
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Mora
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Originally Posted by Tom Swift
So, botters cheat but NCsoft steals, which is worse?
Charges should have been refused before purchase or refunded immediately upon opening of the new account. to do other wise is theft in my book. |
oscarmk
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Originally Posted by sixdartbart
From Guild Wars User Agreement
http://us.ncsoft.com/en/legal/user-a...agreement.html |
The Drunkard
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Originally Posted by Tom Swift
So, botters cheat but NCsoft steals, which is worse?
Charges should have been refused before purchase or refunded immediately upon opening of the new account. to do other wise is theft in my book. |
zelgadissan
While I like ArenaNet's actions in principle (you botted, you're done), it's pretty douchey to charge them and then instantly ban them. It's also douchey to charge way more for the games in the online store than brick and mortar stores charge, so it's a double middle finger.
I have no sympathy for those who truly botted and can no longer play; however from a PR standpoint ArenaNet really needs to get that money refunded.
I have no sympathy for those who truly botted and can no longer play; however from a PR standpoint ArenaNet really needs to get that money refunded.
Jenn
To be honest, I would like much, much more concrete information on this before anyone starts throwing around accusations and getting up to their necks in legalese. For all we know, it could be an accident.
I don't want to discredit the original poster, but you're one person and it's hard to verify if we're getting the whole story. If the claims are substantiated, then anyone affected should immediately get in contact with NCSoft.
I don't want to discredit the original poster, but you're one person and it's hard to verify if we're getting the whole story. If the claims are substantiated, then anyone affected should immediately get in contact with NCSoft.
Del
Ban evasion is against the EULA, yeah it's dick that they take the cash, then ban, but then again, is it worth getting jacked to set up an account to a 5 year old game that's becoming less and less active? Their own fault for not just moving on to new games.
C4RB1N3
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Originally Posted by Tom Swift
So, botters cheat but NCsoft steals, which is worse
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headlesshobbs
If anyone wants to come back that badly, you need to change your service provider, CC number etc. It's doable just as long as you don't have any lingering information that says you had a prior account.
Just don't be stupid enough to bot again.
Just don't be stupid enough to bot again.
niek2004
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Originally Posted by Del
Ban evasion is against the EULA, yeah it's dick that they take the cash, then ban, but then again, is it worth getting jacked to set up an account to a 5 year old game that's becoming less and less active? Their own fault for not just moving on to new games.
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IlikeGW
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Originally Posted by zelgadissan
While I like ArenaNet's actions in principle (you botted, you're done), it's pretty douchey to charge them and then instantly ban them.
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Del
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Originally Posted by niek2004
You know that 90% of the people who got banned for PvP botting just logged in on an alt the next day, right?
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lemming
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Originally Posted by Del
And your point is?
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Del
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Originally Posted by lemming
It's ridiculous that the person in question was immediately banned on an account he had just bought from the NCSoft store when other people aren't even banned on accounts they already used.
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Amy Awien
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Originally Posted by niek2004
Is this even legal, buying a product only to have it terminated an hour later?
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Ninja Ninja
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Originally Posted by lemming
It's ridiculous that the person in question was immediately banned on an account he had just bought from the NCSoft store when other people aren't even banned on accounts they already used.
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Ildanach
It is not the account that is the culprit, it is the person. If one is banned I see it as being the person that is excluded from the game, not just the account.
Buying another account after being banned sounds like plain idiocy, perhaps in the future they should read the EULA of the games they play.
Buying another account after being banned sounds like plain idiocy, perhaps in the future they should read the EULA of the games they play.
slowerpoke
Probably to stop the RTM'er from continuing the cycle.
Sarevok Thordin
Gotta love the fine print.
-Vodka-
Either way, even if the point here is to ban additional accounts bought by the 'banned', the least ANET could do is restrict them from buying a new account, rather than taking their money and screwing them over afterward.