Emailing Support - Why are we doing it?

That's for 21.
Well for 9... the 'client' (what's the definition of client anyway?) may not be directly changed, but obviously the part of your client that you see IS changed.

And to those who SAY they got the same reply on support tickets about non-ban related issues: screenshot or never happened.

People stop going off-topic please, this thread is not about ksmod.

to all the people that say ANET checks b4 giving you an automated response, i present you this following image:



(in case its unclear, look at the response time)

No doubt about Anet is handeling this whole ban situation in the worst way possible, very childish and very unprofessional, placing all 3700 in the same box - not have the right tool or manpower to deal with complaints, not double check the individual case senario, not answer emails when contacted and answer with stadard copy/paste replys is under all critique to have immature kids handling a support job. Support doesn't make any effort viewing the individual case senario. Every time you contact them you get a pre formulated response which is of no use. Thier is many who has been banned wrongly and all should given the hard evidence from ANET when they ban peoples accounts. Thier bans is based on circumstancly evidence and suspicion - I have never seen an email where is says the exact reason - they fumble in the dark and try to put all in the same box - which is impossible and they make only matters worse when they chose to handle the complaints this childish way. If you have been wrongly banned - Dont expect any support dont expect any reply or evidence - Anet do as they wish - no matter if they are right or wrong - sad to vitness this ANET

About the only part that is relevant.

You right support is a joke you can be banned for no reason and you wont get any help.
But they did me a favor i stopped playing completly and i have much more time for other stuff.
And i wont ever spend a cent on a game anymore its a waste anyway since they can simple ban you for no reason and nothing you can do.

the reason you get that response is because A.Net already knows you cheated. They did double check. They double checked before you were banned. They have proof that every single account they banned, either used the specific injection they were detecting, shares the same IP address as an account that was botting, or was engaged in some form of PvP match manipulation.

There is no reason to recheck every single support ticket pertaining to these events. Read their response, "We will not accept appeals in cases such as this because of the depth of the analysis prior to the block". That sentence right there means they had 100% indisputable evidence in front of them prior to banning the 3700 accounts. They don't need to recheck because they checked prior to the whole event. Rechecking will only give them the same result they had before. If you feel you were unfairly banned, it won't matter. Whether you botted or not, they have evidence that you did. Whether the evidence is faulty or not does not matter, because A.Net believes it to be true, and nothing you say will make them doubt their evidence.

The only people who have a justified complaint are those who were banned because they share an IP with someone who was banned. And the chances of same IP's not being the exact same person with multiple accounts is rather slim, and you really won't be able to prove your innocence.

As for 21, that is just all related to server emulation (the parts you bolded). As for 9, KSMod makes temporary changes to your computer, but not to Guild Wars itself.

Looks like Anets tool randomly pick out accounts - many had been banned wrongly, who never has botted - and many still in game who does bot - and support doesnt back up thier ban with any hard evidence - like its normally when you accuse someone of a "crime" - they put all in the same box - doesnt matter if you are guilty or innocent - we just ban you - seems like ANET is forcing dictatorship and not a sociaty build on terms of democracy and justice. No doubt they have banned some account for wrong reasons - Yes I agree to perma the ones who has really harmed the GW community , but i dont agree with the ones whos got perma for a third party - and many has and many who has botted even got account back arealdy - I can name a few - So my point is .....whats the point for ANET to use a BOT tool - 1st they breka thier own rules, 2nd they hit a % aroudn half of the ones whos really guily and 50% whos not guilty - in any case they should present the evidence - it is not the "right" way to handle "crime" - not even if they are ANET - is not above the law either - so they should and i dont care if it will take them weeks or months - they should give every single BAN they made an email with the evidence - that would be FAIR. Togther with a support which doesn't seem to reply contructively to anyting, if they do its pre formulated reply all this vitness of that GW - No i will never agree to that all 3700 are guilty and should be perma ban - some yes perhaps half but the margin of mistakes based of a progam is so huge u can't base your accusations on a progam only GW is full of bugs and so is thier program , you have to evaluate every single case on its own - a program with no hard evidence will never hold in real court. Seems GW is ruled by dictatorship and not a democracy - sad to vitness

Those are pretty lofty words and an impossible standard that no MMO company would ever admit to. 100% indisputable evidence? I can guarantee not even arenanet would claim that. Not to mention that IP's are absolutely a poor method for tying a botter to an account. They change, some have dynamic IP's, others can belong to universities/companies. You are guessing they banned all these accounts based on IP as well. Kind of funny that you tell us all how Arenanet banned the accounts when they've never said. Which makes everything you are saying nothing more than a guess and your entire argument just fluff, not to mention the contradictory statements about 100% indisputable evidence and then later on saying that there are valid instances where they banned accidentally.

[QUOTE=Still Number One;5165680]the reason you get that response is because A.Net already knows you cheated. They did double check. They double checked before you were banned. They have proof that every single account they banned, either used the specific injection they were detecting, shares the same IP address as an account that was botting, or was engaged in some form of PvP match manipulation.


innocent until proven guilty ring any bell ? You can't just put all in the same box and hand out 3700 randomly banns to peoples without backup your "statment" with hard evidence - all people has seen from Support is a standard reply !! and you have been banned by our program ! - where is the hard evidence - GW is full of bugs and sorry but i dont believe ANET and thiers ways to handle this ban situation is under all critique - I personally has not used any bot for the almost 5y i played GW and never before had any temp ban either, still i got a ban for a so called third party program which doesnt harm anything or anyone - a drunk bot - is illigal ...why ? - but we all know a drunk bot doesnt do anyting but pop an alcohol now and then. You leave your pc on overnight while you download a movie and you are HARMLESS standing in your guild hall drinking !! very harmful - very destructive to GW community !! NOT !! or any other 3rd party which their bot detection program doesnt know - get stamped - BOT and get banned !! - I just wish to cast some light over the margin of failour in thier program and in thier way to handle complaints in support -is beyond what you could expect living in a democracy in year 2010 - seems like anet steal peoples account like you got nothing to say and cant appeal to justice to be done, GW has become a dicatorship like Iraq or Cuba once was - Sad sad

wat.
12chars

Any evidence or statistics to back that up?
That is true. A balance has to be found between reassuring the public of the justification of a banning and keeping your method of detecting secret. Anet has drawn it on the side of secrecy. Given that this is a forum, not a court of law, they don't actually HAVE to present evidence, mind you...

Please keep in mind that trial complexity will vary per area of the law and per case importance. A crime is sentenced harshly, and is therefore always the most regulated procedure - it's a matter of life and freedom when it comes to sanction.

Anet doesn't investigate crime and does not issue criminal sentences. They at worst shut down a service worth a few dozen dollars. A simpler procedure is therefore quite adequate. Do note that one can always dispute the banning in an actual court. If you are THAT sure of your case, by all means, do so. I'll get the popcorn

It's a bloody online gaming service, and none are set up as democracies. They could be, but providers usually realize exactly why it's a bad idea - because of people like you.

Harmless third party modifications were not grounds for a banning. People who did much more than just use a third party are simply hiding the truth behind the claims of "I just used texmod!"

Please do. Names, actions banned for, reason for unbanning, reasons for the false positive - please, by all means, DO provide them.

Fighting fire with fire.

They never broke them.They may at times elect not to prosecute minor infractions, but that does not invalidate the existence of the rule itself. Or break the rule.

Evidence for claims, please...

Probably. They are a bit too secretive for my tastes, but it's their decision, their service and it'll be their lawyers at any potential trial.

It may not be perfect - nothing is - but it's adequate.

They're not above the law. The law has never actually been applied here, at all. Take Anet to court, and then you'll see they're not above the law - but you'll also see exactly what the law is.
Unfeasible. I'd rather suggest a person of public trust be found and the exact method be revealed to that person. No idea whom people would trust, though.
First, preformulated replies are a standard business practice. They don't mean that no review takes place - they just mean that so many similar questions come in that it pays to prepare a unified reply. And second, Anet doesn't owe anyone a review, except to itself. The court of law is where the true test would take place.

Stop acting as if you actually knew anything about how the program works...

Individual investigation of accounts with such a large player base is impossible. As for the evidence not holding up in court - go sue.

Neither actually. It's a company operating by standard company operating patterns.

thier bot detection is an impovement in the fight vs HARMFUL BOTTING - YES - but some programs are not harmful or even a drunk bot - doesnt HARM anyone thats my point ! - my point is also that you cant only place your tust in a program which they have used ! simpley of the reason that we all know whos been in gw for many years, that gw has been full of mistakes and bugs - just like any other software thats being relased - need a update and fixed bugs - and I refuse to believe that ANET has better programmers who does a better progam than ex: microsoft does - if ANET can make a program which is perfect and hasnt any faliours or bugs in it ...then i want to hear his name !! i dont think anet got that skilled people - when they can have such a bad support, im sure thier programmers is just as bad - which means thier bot detection program has ERRORS - which mean they hit some innocent ppl and when they refuse to listen to ppl complaints and act like a freeking dictatorship in thier process is vitness of incompetence from both the top the director though support down to the cleaning lady - if support isnt in gear to handle complaints individually then the whole organization is rotten to the core and you doesnt represent a good example - I dont need to prove anything if i know or dont know anything of the programs - i need to prove as little as ANET does - treat others like you want to be treated - GW does look like a dictatorship - and your progam has falied - cuz you have banned some innocent ppl - thats a fact also

You did read the EULA before you agreed to abide by it, right?

I feel bad for the harmless botters who were banned but most who read the EULA as well as info from Anet knew that they were taking a risk.

Good for you.

I hope by 'other stuff' you don't mean the Guru forums.

many who use farming bots are still in the game, progam has gotten only top of iceberg, and in the sweep also hit some very innocent ppl - for textmod even i have examples on which should be alright, drunken bot doesnt harm anyone or anyting, or a script that allows you to jump form city to city without using the map first selcect campagin - all these are HARMLESS - and because the programs has put all in the same box as - HARMFUL bots some has been banned for a reason they should have perhaps only have gotten a temp ban for or a lifted finger - my point is also if they shall ban so many - they need to pick out the individuel cuz some are really harmless to gw and the community - I seen many botting for pvp and raptors and hfff back then ect - but exp a drunk bot doesnt harm anyone ...right ? it doesnt destory economy or farm any highend weapons - I have personally used druken bot for the last 3-4k when i maxed my title 1.5 y ago - but i dont think that ANET goes back that far - so my reason is still put as a third party program which i havent been able to get a reply to what is - so yes im a bit sad over support and the way they but all in the same box - when some hasnt harmed gw in any way - thats why i draw prallels to a dictatorship which doesnt give the individuel ppl a chance to speak thier case - and why i question if the bot program has really been a win or a lose for ANET - since you can uphold bans based on a progam that has failours !! - and supports of tools or manpower to handle the complains vitess also of they havent thought this through - since response time is so slow - support either doesnt care or cant handle the traffic of mails - and choose to NOT REPLY -

when i have not gotten the exact reason to why ppl get a perma ban or myself included - I begin to wonder if they randomly pick out ppl whos got like ex: over 250 ectos on his account = he must have been botted so we ban him !! when i dont see any evidence - I cant put my trust in a Program - or believive in what an incompetent support or director put out as rules - ANET hanst thought this trrough - ANET act like BOTs wiithout even question thier own tools and trust blind in what they do is RIGHT - a healty skepticism and i raise a question about of the support is geard to handle this and if the progam has some failours which should birng the suppor to CHECK what ppl email them and re evaluate if thier is base to uphold a perma ban or if thier is a mistake that maybe should be looked upon again with different eyes - i dont believe you have a program which is flawless and doesnt make mistake - running it again is not the sloution if the progams is full of mistakes - u wil yes get the same result andtherefor you need to listen to the person and do some decetive work to find out if you got a bad guy or a good guy at the other end - I dont trust in ANET program - You put all in the same box and that is wrong to place all your trust in a program full of bugs

if its impossible to check every case with a human eye and common sense, should you then run the program which many hit some innocent ppl ? is that right or wrong ? - those cases where a harmful bot such as farming bot has been detected should be closed, yes , but some are NOT harmful and some thier party programs maybe seen as BOT and therefore being placed in same catagory and tagged BAN !!! as well as we players can make mistakes, so can ANET - so to minimize the mistakes anet should no matter who long it takes pick out the cases thier maybe in the "grey zone" and look upon it under microscope - running the program twice to double check will only result with the same result and outcome if program pick out third prty progrmas and stamp as BOT - so hes/she gets a perma ban - thats FAIL ANet - 2nd you have to have the manpower to handle this -and cant view the case individuel this is not an exuse -then you should be prepared for it - like you say youself ---- you have not been aware of what consequences would follow after ban 3700 with a program full of mistakes - then dont do it ........ring a bell !!

A bot is a bot, and anyone who used any bot violated the EULA they agreed to and deserve any punishment they receive. End of story.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chief lazy horse A bot is a bot, and anyone who used any bot violated the EULA they agreed to and deserve any punishment they receive. End of story.

then tell me why ppl who used drunken bot is still in GW playing - right now - and ppl who use farm bots got account back !! explain me this !! if u can ... I dont try to justify the use of any bots - I just say you have hit many innocent ppl with a program that doesnt seem to work quiet as it was intended and you got some of the bad guys, "BOT" also some of the innocent once and you reply fully to the report of a program - and the detection from ANET doesnt go 1.5y back when i used the drunken bot -BECAUSE many who did and still does is still in GW Therefore i can state the fact that in my case its not the drunen bot i used back in late 2008 for the last 3-4k of my title - NO and i can also state the fact that i have gotten a ban based on an unspecified reason when ppl who still bot can still play GW - it vitness of that progam more or less pick out randomly !!! or can u perhaps also explain this ?? how this can happen then ? fact is that the progams anet uses is so full of bugs it shuffel and pick out randomly

Quote:

Originally Posted by chief lazy horse A bot is a bot, and anyone who used any bot violated the EULA they agreed to and deserve any punishment they receive. End of story.

Then you should teach your progam to distinguish between whats hamfull and whats not - ppl dont deserve to be perma ban for a drunk bot used back 1-2 years and I know thats the reason in my case , cuz many who did same time as me are still in GW - so its not that i used a innocent druken bot 1-2y ago - its a undefinded third party which ANET cant say what is - only that its a third party is all i know - so therefore i can also say your progams doesnt work as it was intended to work !! since you perma some for something you dont quiet know what is yourself, only u can say its a third party progam - which equals that your programs is either full of bugs or simply randomly picking out accounts and this back up my theory when support is so slow and doesnt respond or try to look into the individual case it awakes my suspicions and raise the question of incompetent progams used by anet as well as the support line , has been told by the dictator . not to try to help the ppl who might have been wrongly banned

I dont try to justify use of bot, not at all - i also find it annoying for the game - but thier is fine line between what u can uphold perma ban for and what you can't - even you rules says - perhaps your rules is out of date and should be modified, perhaps you should do more to catch the BAD GUYS - i know thats what you are tying and i dont mind that at all - but i mind that you act like a freeking dicatorhip and randomly pick out accounts - ohh hes got more than 250 ectos or 50 armbaces so hes a bot for sure - BAN HIM ! this is what i looked like to many when you do not give a exact reason for your ban - and cant come it closer than ...ohh hes used a third party progam once or twice or drunken bot 1-2y ago !!! perhaps its been used, perhaps not - but as long as you do not backup your story with hard evidence it will always be reason of dubt attaced both to you as a supprort and to the ppl - and it will have to take the evaluation of a HUMAN EYE to go through the "grey zone" - you need a better tools which doesnt make so many mistakes and also see in the light if the program is harmful or harmless -ANET has failed once again as they did so many times before with bugs , and nerfs - trying to improve the game but actually make it worse

@cosmic: You are not telling us the full story here.

Did you use some pixel bot? Did you use some autoclicker bot in JQ?
Lots of people think that those will go undetected (and they are right about that), but if Anet misses them, there are other people reporting them.

I've seen the screenshots a friend took of an obvious bot in JQ, taken about a week before DhuumsDay. This account wasn't banned with the 3700, my friend saw him logged in a couple of days after DhuumsDay, so he decided to move his lazy ass and report the botter by email, sending screenshots and a detailed report for proof.

The bot was an "Archer", and cycled the same skills. The screenshots are hilarious, because the bot heals himself and the pet in the base, even if they had just respawned after being killed. The sequence was like heal self --> heal pet --> defensive stance --> IAS --> dmg skill. Too bad he tried the sequence several times while inside the base (got stuck against a wall, so he was discovered).

This was not the only one, but it was the most obvious.
There are other screenshots being sent, of people who botted (especially in JQ).
I expect to see more bans coming in the next days.

The drunkard bot may not be harmful, but it still gives you an advantage over others not using the bot.

Many, many other people have obtained the max drunkard title without using the bot, there is absolutely no excuse for you to use it.

I just wanted to throw this out there for food for thought:

I have emailed support last week (friday) and it is now this week (friday) and I have yet to recieve a response beyond the lengthy explanation of the bans auto-response.

I did send a separate support message to check if the support ticket thread had been closed but I shortly recieved a message saying that support ticket was merged with my other ticket (indicating it had not been closed).

Thoughts? Really slow support? Still backlogged by whining botters?

I'm actually going to start testing out other accounts to see how they handle responding.

They probably merged both tickets so that they know not to respond to both, which is pretty bad on Anet's part. Support teams are supposed to want to help the people that go to them.

I remember a few years ago when I was suspended for spamming (it was at spamadan . . .) I had created a support ticket and after a week, I still got no response. I was wondering whether they were actually busy with other support matters or whether they just didn't want to respond to my ticket. So I sent another support ticket asking them a random gw question (asked them about some npc glitch) and I got a quick response.

So 2 tickets. 1 old, 1 new. Old one about my suspension, new one about the npc glitch. New one got quick response, old one didn't get a response until 1+ weeks later.

Proof please. If true, then this is a serious issue.

Also, I had a hard time getting through your wall-of-text postings. Succintness is your friend; repetition does not make your argument stronger.

Here, let me help you out:

1. Anet banned a lot of innocent people, so their detection methods cannot be foolproof.
2. I only used a harmless drunk-bot so I should be unbanned.
3. Anet is a dictatorship.
4. Anet is a dictatorship.
5. Anet is a dictatorship.

anything else i missed?

You weren't accidently banned, and neither were any of the other 3,699 accounts.

Trying to get unbanned when you botted? You don't even fit into the "maybe innocent category" in any distinction. Why are you taking up supports time?

While the reasons they might have banned people for might be a mistake in less than 1% of the cases, the way you were detected is flawless and carries no margin of error.

Bullshit. Big heaping piles of it.

This hasn't happened, and anyone who believes this bologna is off their rocker. They aren't unbanning botters, period. ANET aren't fools, and you aren't fooling any educated person with the lies and deceit anymore.

You can email support. You will get the same responses, because you are all guilty of something. Whether ANET decides that the detected infraction was not a bot, that they will do after yet another review. Considering no one has posted success of this yet, I'm going to err to the side of "Liars!"

Normally, I'd merge posts, but I've had enough of this. I'm going to take a purely logical stance on this, and not be personally involved anymore with the good vs bad argument.

Here are the facts:

If you used a program or modification that aggressively injected dlls (KSMod isn't aggressive, at all.), you were banned.
If you manipulated a match, you were banned.

Now, you contacted support. I'll let Gaile speak for me here with the points I'd like to stress bolded:

And to another point:


Some of you claimed to have used PacketFakor as a replacement for TexMod. I pose this question... why? TexMod works perfectly, why use something with a name like Pa(c)ketFak(e)or?

Gaile shall respond, and then I will elaborate with an analogy:

Using PaketFakor as a replacement for TexMod is akin to using chemotherapy to lose weight, or shooting your dog in the legs when trying to train him to lie down.

PacketFakor is a very aggressive dll injection program, containing many hooks. It can easily be altered to do something malicious, in its original form. ANET cannot tell the difference between using it for malicious acts and for benign uses.


Now, here is an example of what the vast majority of people who contact support scream:

Gee, that looks familiar...

Here, we have Gaile's response:

So... here you see the typical tickets they are reviewing. There were 3,700 accounts banned guys and gals... did you expect support to write you a mushy heartfelt letter, and to do that for the other 3,699 people/accounts too?


Now here comes the most important part of this. This thread suggests ANET (as is usually suggested by people angry with the response they get from support, trust me, I've been there myself) is unable to do their job and is giving a canned "F*ck off response" to everyone who sends in a ticket regarding the May 26th bans. This isn't true, as I have stated SEVERAL times already.

ANET is owned by NCSoft, a multi billion dollar company. They are a publicly held company (that means people own stock in their company) They cannot go about banning potential customers at a whim without pissing off said stock holders, and businesses are in this to make money and keep stock holders happy campers. That said, this process was rigorous and very accurate. There is less than a 1% error margin allowed in the business world when it comes to major moves against consumers using automated technology. 99.1% to be exact, but most companies strive for 99.99%, be that uptime, customer satisfaction, and accuracy. Companies need to meet that metric to keep themselves financially sound, via the public holdings.


There you have it, from the horse's mouth. I don't know how much more clearly we can make this.

If you got a canned response, it's over. If you didn't, congratulations, you might actually be one of the tiny minority that really was a bookkeeping error, and you stand to have your account reinstated. My guess is, that small minority mainly consists of the match manipulators, not the botters.

As a note... 3rd party applications are risky, no matter what. The EULA makes no distinction, ergo, that means you could potentially be banned for any of them. This isn't a new rule, and shouldn't be treated like it just popped up yesterday. Instead of everyone losing their heads and screaming they don't deserve to be banned, or that botting is ok, or that this and this program should have been ok, why don't we try just not risking things? It's tough, I know, but you are 100% guaranteed not to get banned that way. Just don't do anything that violates the ToS/EULA. I'll quote Gaile, yet again, to close this.

If ANet can't tell the difference between one third party program and another, how can you be so confident they did their research?

That's putting a lot of faith into NCsoft support people, who have proven to be terrible and incompetent.

They can tell the difference enough to know which programs were extremely malicious or had the capacity to be. KSMod users weren't banned... enough said.

And for this type of MASS banning, again, the rules change. A company is alienating a lot of users by doing this, and also eliminating a lot of potential Guild Wars 2 customers. The fact is, they didn't do this without extremely accurate litmus testing and QA... They have to answer to their stock holders about something on this scale. This was done with a fine tooth comb.

I'm pretty sure no one claimed that they used Paketfaker as a replacement of TexMod, rather, Paketfaker and TexMod. Both programs offer completely different things. TexMod doesn't offer Fame/Zaishen Emotes so I don't think your analogy works

It's more like, going to chemotherapy for cancer treatment then going to the gym to lose weight

Was replacing the emote textures and effects with TexMod a big thing to do?

Also, Paketfaker is extremely aggressive. Was the name not a clue? Packet. Faker.

It has more hooks in it than a commercial fishing boat. I mean, you could use it to do a lot of potential hacks, etc, and they wouldn't just be client side.

At some point, someone just needs to ask this question.... Does anyone use common sense anymore?

If the name suggest cheat, or the process suggests reverse engineering or intercepting and altering data, it MIGHT be a cheat. If it might be a cheat, it likely is.

3rd party programs were never sanctioned. But this isn't the point of this thread anywho, this about the support tickets. I gave the exact reason people are receiving the responses they are regarding this issue... Unless I missed something.... if so, feel free to point that out. Otherwise, post in the other threads about the general bans and reasons.

Do you have any proof that it's agressive? How can you tell that something is bad without even knowing how it works? If its name is your only reason then you have a pretty bad argument.

Heck, when I first saw the word "KSMod" I thought it was a dangerous, agressive thing too and I considered it a cheat.

Oh and, no, you can't bot with the paketfaker. If you are going to make wild statements about something, at least provide some hard evidence to back you up.

You're guessing, nothing more. No one knows what they used to detect the botters. No one knows what they could detect and what they couldn't. No one knows what their 'investigative' methods were.

It's all just one huge guess on your part. Which makes your entire argument, and a lot of others in this thread, nothing more than speculation and pretty useless.

Clearly ANet has randomly picked out accounts here - If the support by accident should return a reply to you - You will see its says - Account banned for Either 3rd party or botting, which means they are not really sure which leg to stand on and 2nd they can't give anyone an exact name or reason, from wich you can conclude they probably only fumble in the dark with some indicator which says " here might be a bot or 3rd party" but we cant say what it is ! - so they hope we players will be satisfied with that explanation and we will just bow and accept, - anet ban 3700 accounts without providing the exact evidence for each and every case/account they close ! - It's sad to see how little credibility they also put in the players, seeing Gaile bacically calling most of the Gw players liars doesnt really encurrage ppl to come out of the bush if thats the attitude you will meet in the support However, those people are very, very few in number. Consider that more than 3,700 accounts were closed.. How many has gotten the specific reason - No one!

Then again you can discuss what is harmful and which isn't - and when and with what u have violated rules, to get a perma.

I really do hope that those who got wrongly banned and who still hasnt got any reply and established any contructive communication with ANET - They are so confident in what they have done is the RIGHT, both moraly and gamewise, they trust blind on a progam which obviously has huge margin of failour, which is why so many of you has gotten banned without any reason. I hope many will be able to see the "System isnt working" they do as the please without any concern - if they perhaps has been a little hard on some. - I encurrage you who feel wrongly accued to speak up and tell your story to magazines, games sites, blogs, fb and where ever thier is a public forum for this interest.

Unlike most peoples' guesses, mine are based on technical knowledge of this situation. To compare... my guesses are like firing a gun with staring into the sun and having an eye patch over one eye. The other guesses in this thread are akin to firing the same gun with both your eyes ripped out and the gun is pointed the wrong way.

My post directly refutes what you are arguing. There was nothing random about this. Quit ignoring direct evidence and posting whatever inane ideas you conjure up to try and hold up this illusion of innocence. People got a reason: You botted or used a restricted 3rd party app... Is this really so difficult to grasp? I think at this point, you are repeating yourself in an attempt to garner support from the masses of ill-informed people. After the length post I made providing direct quotes on this, you refute and argue still.

What needs to happen to convince you people that what has happened was perfectly righteous? Or, is it literally impossible to make you see that, and at this point you are simply posting misinformation and skewed views just to spite?

You said..."without providing the exact evidence for each and every case/account they close"

Yes, ANET should give you the exact reason so you can have a blueprint for how to cheat in the future, AMIRITE?

Does anyone think before posting this tripe? They clearly can tell what 3rd party apps you are using... KSMod users weren't banned, now were they? 2+2!=Chair, it == 4.

The program doesn't have a margin of error. It's 100% accurate.

No one was banned without reason. They gave you a reason, you just aren't accepting it. That's a personal problem, not one with ANET.

I have yet to see anyone claiming to be 100% innocent in that last banning spree.

Also a bot IS a 3'rd party program or an auto-clicker, there is nothing illogical about what they say.

If people got a reason - then explain to me why it can happend that - the 29th 3 days after, i hear about the first one who got the account back !! and that exact person has been Botting and i mean farming all that could be done with a bot he did - so if a person who really is into botting - can get account back 3 days after -at the same time you ban ppl for "innocent 3rd party" which doesnt do anyting compared to farming bots !! where is the SENSE ?? to let the very worst lose again while you uphold ban on ppl who has use a darn drunk bot which doesnt do anyitng to anyone or to the economy - it was the FARMING bots you were after - not all the "innocent ones" - I got a page long conversation saved from MSN - where it says you let a botter lose after 3 days - is that - FAIL !! - I would call it that !!

I don't believe it. They aren't letting people out of the bans for any reason at this point unless it was a legit bookkeeping error. If they found you guilty of using a restricted 3rd party app, your ban will not be lifted.

Whoever this person is you are talking to, they are lying to you. MSN conversation logs do not prove anything. I guarantee they were either not banned in the first place, or they were never actually unbanned.

well I am just saying i got a page long conversation saved where half of it is about a person which got account , back after 3 days - who has been botting for years in GW - if you believe it is up to u , you tend to believe very litlte in whats being said to ya anyways , perhaps same tendency is reflected when we have to believe you ANET - i only bing light over that even a hardcore botter which intentions was only moneywise and all that which you have tired to deal with , is still going on and that your ways to check this isnt 100% sure -

I'd just like to chip in with a few words, semi-directed to Lord Sojar but also to everyone else:

Getting banned for 'Botting' may be more obvious to some than it has been to others. ArenaNET has had a history of being vague in EULA-related cases like these, such as the character naming debacle. While some applications are easy to identify as bots and therefore illegal under the EULA, without completely clear guidelines there is, and always will be a very big gray area. This, in turn, results in people finding themselves in this grey area and submitting tickets and appeals for clarification. The time Support spends on these tickets could have been completely avoided if ArenaNET had made proper, clear and easy to access rules and restrictions on what is allowed and what is not.

Now, Gaile argues automated responses are justified as a result of 3700 accounts being banned. However, why invoke a mass-ban if you don't have enough resources at Support to give everyone a proper response? Again, not only is this a result of the fact that they let this grey area exist, it's also a direct result of the way they dealt with banning everyone at the same time, as Support now has to deal with a buttload of extra tickets they can't properly process all at once. If the banning had occurred much more gradually, and if ArenaNET would be clear in what is legal and what is not, there wouldn't be a problem.

What Anet needs to do is make a specific, clear and easy to access list of which applications under which circumstances and ways they can be used are illegal and which are not. This list needs to be updated frequently, and players need to be notified in advance before the list gets updated with new applications, so they have the time and oppurtunity to stay legal under the latest regulations. If they won't, banning accounts for breaking the various vague sections of the EULA will always remain seemingly arbitraty.

P.S. As you may have guessed, I find myself in the grey area as of now. I am not banned, and I have never used .dll injection software in conjunction with Guild Wars, and yet, I don't feel safe for an unexpected ban, even though I am corresponding with Support at this moment for more clarification and peace of mind on my case.

Believing and knowing are very different things. Your assertions are for the most part completely reliant upon trusting you and believing whatever you say.