I been gone all summer and I came back to find that the game is deader than ever......
Ursan and Shadowform killed it for the majority , but there are still some people around......
Seriously isn't it time to say enough is enough......
There is no one out playing in mission zones anymore....
The only place you can hope to get a group is in the daily Z-mission area......
...........and you can't play there either because there are always 7 million sos rits waiting to play for you......
Can't we just have gameplay back for a little while........?
Please ?
Are you ever going to kill Spirit Spam ?
veteran_player
Zebideedee
I'm afraid thats just how this game seems to play out, SoS got a lil nerf a while back. If Rit's got a major nerf people would come up with a new replacement anyway eg. Ursan -> Perma -> SoS It'll go on and on.
It is a little offputting though, even in the zmiss areas, the vast majority wanting SoS or Monks, I think what they are doing with GW2 is going to remedy that annoyance
It is a little offputting though, even in the zmiss areas, the vast majority wanting SoS or Monks, I think what they are doing with GW2 is going to remedy that annoyance
Sarevok Thordin
There always seems to be a mindnessly strong build out there that people would rather run as opposed to organising and trusting each other.
Hey I ain't complaining tho, SoS heroway is making Vanquishing EoTN easy!
Hey I ain't complaining tho, SoS heroway is making Vanquishing EoTN easy!
Arduin
Ursan got killed: no one out playing in mission zones, still everyone farming dungeons and endgame.
Shadow Form got killed: no one out playing in mission zones, still everyone farming dungeons and endgame.
SoS gets killed: ....
The game is old. Most people rush their chars to endgame to farm there. And when only a few new people trickle in every day, there are just no people wanting to do these missions. This has got nothing to do with the FOTM farming setup.
Solution: go hero/henchies, or get a nice guild. Or quit the game
Shadow Form got killed: no one out playing in mission zones, still everyone farming dungeons and endgame.
SoS gets killed: ....
The game is old. Most people rush their chars to endgame to farm there. And when only a few new people trickle in every day, there are just no people wanting to do these missions. This has got nothing to do with the FOTM farming setup.
Solution: go hero/henchies, or get a nice guild. Or quit the game
Xsiriss
It's not THAT OP in comparison to things like Ursan and SF. Destroying SoS would make rits pretty weaksauce, where as the nerf of ursan and SF didn't actually hurt their respective classes (especially with Ursan...).
aspi
It's pretty obvious that Spirit spamming is a bit overpowered. They dont have to be destroyed but it wouldnt hurt to make it a bit less OP.
Essence Snow
Since you can basically only have 1 SoS per group and rits have other options ST/SoGM/DwG/Resto...I'm not really seeing the issue. Plus the Sf "nerf" wasn't really a nerf...it made the skill better for 95% of the areas where it is abused.
godis
If heroes and henchmen didn't exist I would never ever have touched this game. Being dependent on other people to progress would have been awful.
snowman relic
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Originally Posted by Essence Snow
Plus the Sf "nerf" wasn't really a nerf...it made the skill better for 95% of the areas where it is abused.
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SoS bugs me i have the elite on all of my characters and i only use it on my rit i do this because should it be fair all classes can go DROP SPIRITS RUN! i like my spirits but really being able to roll through all areas without even trying thats really a gambreaking skill, at least with ursan and shadow form youd have to be careful with SoS just summon spirits then do summon spirits close to the group and run and thats all you have to do
Rocky Raccoon
The game is 5 years old and what I would call in a mature state. If people are using SoS and it keeps people playing until GW2 is released, so be it.
Missing HB
Shadow form nerfed haha... seriously go in doomlore , you find easily perma sins running any dungeon. Kath sc + SoO sc are run with 8 shadow form sins too. UW and FoW use shadow form sin as tank... Ursan was nothing compared to it.
gremlin
Its far too late to worry about super powerful builds spoiling the game and to be honest I would be more than a little annoyed if they were removed.
When the players began exploiting the weakness of the game using Ursan and later Shadowform it should have been corrected within 24 hours not many months.
There are players in the game that achieved what they did be it cash items or titles etc because of such builds.
Its only fair that players coming along later get the same or similar advantage.
This game has a bad reputation as regards players so its no surprise that 5 years on many prefer to play an online game without involving other humans.
I expect GW2 to be a great improvement but as for this one let the power builds stay and let everyone complete the game however they like, its not as if removing all these builds would suddenly flood the game areas with loads of players wanting to form parties.
When the players began exploiting the weakness of the game using Ursan and later Shadowform it should have been corrected within 24 hours not many months.
There are players in the game that achieved what they did be it cash items or titles etc because of such builds.
Its only fair that players coming along later get the same or similar advantage.
This game has a bad reputation as regards players so its no surprise that 5 years on many prefer to play an online game without involving other humans.
I expect GW2 to be a great improvement but as for this one let the power builds stay and let everyone complete the game however they like, its not as if removing all these builds would suddenly flood the game areas with loads of players wanting to form parties.
RedDog91
My suggestion would be to put the casting times back on the spirits...it lowers the spamability (more or less) while still letting the rits have a decent use for spirits.
I honestly don't see the reasoning behing making all the cast times 3/4 second when leaving them at 2 seconds would have still worked just fine
I honestly don't see the reasoning behing making all the cast times 3/4 second when leaving them at 2 seconds would have still worked just fine
Essence Snow
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Originally Posted by snowman relic
O.o the SF nerf wasnt a nerf? i dont see any assasins soloing the UW anymore unless im missing something maybe aaxte still cant hit you i dont know.
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Lord Sojar
Everyone has complaints about the game, but for this type of complaint, the best course would be an email to Regina or Martin, or a member of the live team.
Ursan and Shadowform were extremely overpowered skills. One cannot expect them to have been kept, since one required extensive grind to get to max and the other required you to be an Assassin. Both are far too restrictive. In addition, Guild Wars was never about having a required build to do something, and both skills created that very situation. You couldn't play the way you wanted and be effective.
Now, rits have a couple options available to them (SoS, DwG, Rit MM bomber, Rit Lord spirit spammer, to name a few) Other classes have a few viable builds, and those that don't are being balanced. Yes, the balancing is taking a long time, but that's to be expected with 1,200+ skills.
Ursan and Shadowform were extremely overpowered skills. One cannot expect them to have been kept, since one required extensive grind to get to max and the other required you to be an Assassin. Both are far too restrictive. In addition, Guild Wars was never about having a required build to do something, and both skills created that very situation. You couldn't play the way you wanted and be effective.
Now, rits have a couple options available to them (SoS, DwG, Rit MM bomber, Rit Lord spirit spammer, to name a few) Other classes have a few viable builds, and those that don't are being balanced. Yes, the balancing is taking a long time, but that's to be expected with 1,200+ skills.
Darcy
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Originally Posted by RedDog91
My suggestion would be to put the casting times back on the spirits...it lowers the spamability (more or less) while still letting the rits have a decent use for spirits.
I honestly don't see the reasoning behing making all the cast times 3/4 second when leaving them at 2 seconds would have still worked just fine |
Here is a link to the Developer Notes on that June 2009 change.
http://www.guildwars.com/gameplay/de...l_balances.php
RedDog91
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Darcy
They shortened the casting times for spirit skills because it took too long to set up spirits. By the time a rit had finished, the party had killed the mob and were moving on. So rits were not especially desired in PvE party setups.
Here is a link to the Developer Notes on that June 2009 change. http://www.guildwars.com/gameplay/de...l_balances.php |
Instead of making players learn how to play smart, they dumbed it down. I mean, sure in a PuG the warrior will run off and attack everything in sight which ruins pre-casting for everyone...but thats an issue that teams should address and fix in advance. The devs shouldn't have to dumb down skills just so rits (or any profession for that matter) can play nice with PuGs
Hyperventilate
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Originally Posted by Arduin
Solution: go hero/henchies, or get a nice guild. Or quit the game
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Darcy
This isn't an issue about PuGs. This was an issue about any group not seeing any advantage to bringing a rit along. And a rit using H/H was out performed by his heroes and henchman. The ritualist was not an attractive class and the developers decided to fix that. In this same update (June 2009) they also improved Spawning Power to give main rits an advantage over secondary rits.
They revisited the improved ritualist in February 2010 as while much more useful, the profession was still not dealing effective damage in Hard Mode or Endgame areas. http://www.guildwars.com/gameplay/de...#ritualist_pve
Those updates made the ritualist effective and desirable and thus very popular. I don't see any difference from the popularity of mesmers or assassins.
They revisited the improved ritualist in February 2010 as while much more useful, the profession was still not dealing effective damage in Hard Mode or Endgame areas. http://www.guildwars.com/gameplay/de...#ritualist_pve
Those updates made the ritualist effective and desirable and thus very popular. I don't see any difference from the popularity of mesmers or assassins.
Skyy High
Quote:
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Originally Posted by veteran_player
The only place you can hope to get a group is in the daily Z-mission area......
...........and you can't play there either because there are always 7 million sos rits waiting to play for you...... |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RedDog91
Thats the part I don't get...they never thought of pre-casting?
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Mouse at Large
I love the mentality of "something actually works well....NERF IT!!!!!" I never play primary Rit, but am perfectly happy to group with them.
As has been already stated, spirit spamming is not equivalent to Ursan/SF etc. There can only be one (or at most 2 if they co-ordinate) per team.
Sure, it opens up some solo farming opportunities as well, but is that really something to get all huffy about these days????
In conclusion, I'm in no hurry to see anything concerning the current Rit builds nerfed.
As has been already stated, spirit spamming is not equivalent to Ursan/SF etc. There can only be one (or at most 2 if they co-ordinate) per team.
Sure, it opens up some solo farming opportunities as well, but is that really something to get all huffy about these days????
In conclusion, I'm in no hurry to see anything concerning the current Rit builds nerfed.
TheodenKing
Quote:
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Originally Posted by veteran_player
I been gone all summer and I came back to find that the game is deader than ever......Ursan and Shadowform killed it for the majority , but there are still some people around......Seriously isn't it time to say enough is enough......There is no one out playing in mission zones anymore....The only place you can hope to get a group is in the daily Z-mission area......and you can't play there either because there are always 7 million sos rits waiting to play for you......Can't we just have gameplay back for a little while........? Please ?
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We're expecting a derv skill balance update soon, but after that, I wouldn't expect too much other than bug fixes and pre-programmed event content.
Karate Jesus
Wait, spirit spamming is OP?
I didn't know that taking an hour to farm Nic items, or being a niche role in elite area builds makes you OP.
Pretty sure it's not THAT amazing. It's definitely nice to run, but running defensive spirits still isn't as good as protting, and running offensive spirits still isn't as good as discordway/mesmers.
I didn't know that taking an hour to farm Nic items, or being a niche role in elite area builds makes you OP.
Pretty sure it's not THAT amazing. It's definitely nice to run, but running defensive spirits still isn't as good as protting, and running offensive spirits still isn't as good as discordway/mesmers.
afya
yes SOS is OP, but at least my hero can bring that and u can only have one in "radar". imo, it is less harmful than ursan or SF
Morphy
If you nerf SoS, another gimmick will take its place. Waste of time.
Scary
Quote:
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Originally Posted by veteran_player
I been gone all summer and I came back to find that the game is deader than ever......
Ursan and Shadowform killed it for the majority , but there are still some people around...... Seriously isn't it time to say enough is enough...... There is no one out playing in mission zones anymore.... The only place you can hope to get a group is in the daily Z-mission area...... ...........and you can't play there either because there are always 7 million sos rits waiting to play for you...... Can't we just have gameplay back for a little while........? Please ? |
jees a other nerf,, kill SoS and even more people wil drop the game.
Give more nerf less... that is how to keep the players
Voodoo Rage
I think SoS is fine by the very nature that you can only have one type of spirit active at all times. It's not like there is a "SoS-way" where everyone has identical builds and rolls through elite areas (like they did with Ursan). Most solo farms involving SoS are fairly slow and tedious, definitely not something that will ever "break the economy".
Gill Halendt
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Originally Posted by Scary
Give more nerf less... that is how to keep the players
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jazilla
Quote:
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Originally Posted by veteran_player
I been gone all summer and I came back to find that the game is deader than ever......
Ursan and Shadowform killed it for the majority , but there are still some people around...... Seriously isn't it time to say enough is enough...... There is no one out playing in mission zones anymore.... The only place you can hope to get a group is in the daily Z-mission area...... ...........and you can't play there either because there are always 7 million sos rits waiting to play for you...... Can't we just have gameplay back for a little while........? Please ? |
Essence Snow
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Karate Jesus
It's definitely nice to run, but running defensive spirits still isn't as good as protting, and running offensive spirits still isn't as good as discordway/mesmers.
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gremlin
The main problem with all of these skill rebalancing nerfs or whatever is they always always cause as many problems as they fix.
GW2 is the fix and we should just await its coming and all GW1 needs to do is hold its ground and provide a fairly interesting play arena till that happens.
Not worth putting a huge effort into achieving some perfect state for GW1 that will bring back the golden days when all was good.
The problem as I see it was that changes needed to be made so whatever class you played there was likely to be a place for you in both pvp and pve.
The trouble was in many cases all that was needed in a team was someone to cover a missing class with their secondary pick.
Right from day one of designing the classes it should have been set up so a secondary class was about 10% as powerful as a primary, usable yes but not anywhere near as powerful.
Hopefully we will not get this stupidity happening in GW2
GW2 is the fix and we should just await its coming and all GW1 needs to do is hold its ground and provide a fairly interesting play arena till that happens.
Not worth putting a huge effort into achieving some perfect state for GW1 that will bring back the golden days when all was good.
The problem as I see it was that changes needed to be made so whatever class you played there was likely to be a place for you in both pvp and pve.
The trouble was in many cases all that was needed in a team was someone to cover a missing class with their secondary pick.
Right from day one of designing the classes it should have been set up so a secondary class was about 10% as powerful as a primary, usable yes but not anywhere near as powerful.
Hopefully we will not get this stupidity happening in GW2
Lanier
I agree completely that SoS needs a nerf. They shouldn't kill it, only make it slightly less powerful. Think about the last nerf that SoS recieved. It wasn't a very big nerf but it was one nonetheless. I think if anet nerfed SoS once again with a nerf of the same magnitude as the last one, things would be fine.
I don't see how you can deny that SoS is OP. It does a rediculous amount of damage and while it isn't as abuseable as skills with effects that can be stacked, it is still too flat out powerful. Even an elite skill that can cause a shitload of armor ignoring damage, a rediculous amount of energy management with just one of two energy management spells (spirit siphon or boon of creation) and extra bodies for the enemy to target... that is just flat out overpowered. There is a reason why spiritway is so popular nowadays. I use it over discordway (then again i wouldnt use discordway anyway cause i dont like necros), and i have seen how devestating an army of spirits can be.
I would be far more happy with my main character if the following nerfs happened:
SoS - only two spirits are summoned, raise the stats of the two spirits to what they originally were. (in other words, you have the capability to create two spirits of pain for free every 30 seconds)
In my opinion, that would nicely balance SoS as an elite.
While we are discussing ritualist skills that need nerfing:
Destructive was Gaive - Raise recharge to 15 sec
This way DwG can be used like it was intended to be used (for the armor penetration for other channeling spells)
Spirit Siphon - Raise recharge to 8 sec
I think many of us would agree that without investing an elite in energy management, you shouldn't be able to easily get unlimeted energy.
Summon Spirits - Tie the number of spirits teleported to the lux/kurz rank (ex: 1 spirit is teleported at ranks 1-2, 2 spirits at ranks 3-8 and 3 spirits at ranks 8 or 9 +)
I don't see how you can deny that SoS is OP. It does a rediculous amount of damage and while it isn't as abuseable as skills with effects that can be stacked, it is still too flat out powerful. Even an elite skill that can cause a shitload of armor ignoring damage, a rediculous amount of energy management with just one of two energy management spells (spirit siphon or boon of creation) and extra bodies for the enemy to target... that is just flat out overpowered. There is a reason why spiritway is so popular nowadays. I use it over discordway (then again i wouldnt use discordway anyway cause i dont like necros), and i have seen how devestating an army of spirits can be.
I would be far more happy with my main character if the following nerfs happened:
SoS - only two spirits are summoned, raise the stats of the two spirits to what they originally were. (in other words, you have the capability to create two spirits of pain for free every 30 seconds)
In my opinion, that would nicely balance SoS as an elite.
While we are discussing ritualist skills that need nerfing:
Destructive was Gaive - Raise recharge to 15 sec
This way DwG can be used like it was intended to be used (for the armor penetration for other channeling spells)
Spirit Siphon - Raise recharge to 8 sec
I think many of us would agree that without investing an elite in energy management, you shouldn't be able to easily get unlimeted energy.
Summon Spirits - Tie the number of spirits teleported to the lux/kurz rank (ex: 1 spirit is teleported at ranks 1-2, 2 spirits at ranks 3-8 and 3 spirits at ranks 8 or 9 +)
NerfHerder
I think I know what the OP is talking about. Everyone has a Rt (nowadays) and some of them play Rt exclusively. I think the problem is with people that will only play thier Rt now. The other problem is that all you have to do is set up your spirits and your done, easiest job in the game. My Rt hardly sees any play time with PUGs because there will most likely be two other people trying to go as a Rt. And I find it boring to only play one profession. I dont think the Rt should get nerfed into oblivion. If other classes became more appealing, it might change some things. At least I'm seeing more Mesmers now.
My pet peave is people that use SoS that are not primary Rts(not a game changer, just a personal feeling). But, I'm on the fence as to how to fix this. If you tie spirit levels and damage closer to Spawning Power, that would fix it. But then again that would kill my favorite Hero build SoS/Resto.
I think it would take a combination of fixing all the things myself and others have talked about to fix this problem. Buff underused/underpowered professions. Lower levels of spirits. Increase casting times of spirits, mostly by fractions of a second. Lower the damage of spirits. Reduce duration of spirits, so Rts actually have something to do. Give Spawning Power the ability to raise the levels, damage, and duration of spirits. If the net duration, damage, and levels of spirits were about 15-25% less than than they are now with about 12 in Spawning power, we might see a more level playing field. Im sure there are better suggestions that would fix this, as my suggestions would take ALOT of work. And with how long its been since the last update,i wouldnt hold your breath.
My pet peave is people that use SoS that are not primary Rts(not a game changer, just a personal feeling). But, I'm on the fence as to how to fix this. If you tie spirit levels and damage closer to Spawning Power, that would fix it. But then again that would kill my favorite Hero build SoS/Resto.
I think it would take a combination of fixing all the things myself and others have talked about to fix this problem. Buff underused/underpowered professions. Lower levels of spirits. Increase casting times of spirits, mostly by fractions of a second. Lower the damage of spirits. Reduce duration of spirits, so Rts actually have something to do. Give Spawning Power the ability to raise the levels, damage, and duration of spirits. If the net duration, damage, and levels of spirits were about 15-25% less than than they are now with about 12 in Spawning power, we might see a more level playing field. Im sure there are better suggestions that would fix this, as my suggestions would take ALOT of work. And with how long its been since the last update,i wouldnt hold your breath.
Grj
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gill Halendt
Actually, that's more like "Put less demented skills in the game and you'll never need to nerf anything"
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Ayuhmii Shanbwa
yea nerf more and lose more people, great idea
spirit spam is also a team build, meaning that 1 in a team can be used very well
overpowered? no way, it just works better than other certain builds
just cuz its better than some other builds, it doesnt mean its overpowered
cuz if that was the case, give every skill at least 50% sac. and 25 energy cost, so that no "strong" builds can be made (THIS IS NOT SERIOUS)
let SoS stay like it is, and people have "fun" with it, its not overpowered, it cant solo just anything, just a few places, and thats NOT the "skill" but the "builds"
lets quit being angry at every single "good" skill/build and continue playing the game
about spirits btw, let em buff the protective spirits, as i lose too much energy and they die too fast for HM to be a good use
sry for the offtopic part, but let the game stay nice, so it wont die just yet, cuz even after gw2 release many people will play it
spirit spam is also a team build, meaning that 1 in a team can be used very well
overpowered? no way, it just works better than other certain builds
just cuz its better than some other builds, it doesnt mean its overpowered
cuz if that was the case, give every skill at least 50% sac. and 25 energy cost, so that no "strong" builds can be made (THIS IS NOT SERIOUS)
let SoS stay like it is, and people have "fun" with it, its not overpowered, it cant solo just anything, just a few places, and thats NOT the "skill" but the "builds"
lets quit being angry at every single "good" skill/build and continue playing the game
about spirits btw, let em buff the protective spirits, as i lose too much energy and they die too fast for HM to be a good use
sry for the offtopic part, but let the game stay nice, so it wont die just yet, cuz even after gw2 release many people will play it
Lanier
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ayuhmii Shanbwa
yea nerf more and lose more people, great idea
spirit spam is also a team build, meaning that 1 in a team can be used very well overpowered? no way, it just works better than other certain builds just cuz its better than some other builds, it doesnt mean its overpowered cuz if that was the case, give every skill at least 50% sac. and 25 energy cost, so that no "strong" builds can be made (THIS IS NOT SERIOUS) let SoS stay like it is, and people have "fun" with it, its not overpowered, it cant solo just anything, just a few places, and thats NOT the "skill" but the "builds" lets quit being angry at every single "good" skill/build and continue playing the game about spirits btw, let em buff the protective spirits, as i lose too much energy and they die too fast for HM to be a good use sry for the offtopic part, but let the game stay nice, so it wont die just yet, cuz even after gw2 release many people will play it |
... but SoS isnt just a "good" skill. It is a terrific skill. It does a lot of damage, which is all armor ignoring. It creates three extra bodies, which really is the best form of passive party defense. Finally, it allows the rit to pretty much never have energy management problems. Spirit Siphon or boon of creation in a non-SoS build are fine but when you have the capability to create three spirits for free, those skills just make it way too easy to manage energy. SoS is probably one of the best single player builds out there right now (along with minion masters) if for nothing else because of the shear amount of damage it can pump out. When you factor in the extra bodies (and thus extra passive party defense) and the fact that all of this can be done without the rit suffering from energy problems at all... i mean i dont see how you can't call that overpowered.
gremlin
The spirit spam build isn't actually that powerful its only the inability of the computer ai that lets it shine so well.
Stick your spirit wall up against raptors esp in hard mode and they will take them down in seconds.
Again there are skills designed to bust spirits its just people do not use them and neither does the pve opposition well not often.
Most area effect spells wipe them quickly esp the Monks Ray of Judgement, of course you can space out your spirits but this slows down the creation and when you use summon spirits it bunches them up again.
Gaze of fury takes an enemy spirit and gives you an allied spirit.
There are also a few attack spells that are better when used on summoned creatures, consume soul is a good one there are probably more.
Finally a decent ranger can blow them away from outside their attack range
They are good but not unbeatable so what's the problem.
Stick your spirit wall up against raptors esp in hard mode and they will take them down in seconds.
Again there are skills designed to bust spirits its just people do not use them and neither does the pve opposition well not often.
Most area effect spells wipe them quickly esp the Monks Ray of Judgement, of course you can space out your spirits but this slows down the creation and when you use summon spirits it bunches them up again.
Gaze of fury takes an enemy spirit and gives you an allied spirit.
There are also a few attack spells that are better when used on summoned creatures, consume soul is a good one there are probably more.
Finally a decent ranger can blow them away from outside their attack range
They are good but not unbeatable so what's the problem.
Tullzinski
Sigh, is it that time already to start the nerf build/skill XXXXXX again? Why don't we just revisit the old nerf shadowform threads for all the same arguements and save some time.
I will say it again it is a never ending cycle. ANET please do not continue to feed the cycle and fall into this trap it is a massive waste of time.
After the Derv update can we expect the same thread for whatever the awesome new OP Derv build is. I think we can.
Make it stop people.
Save it for GW2.
I will say it again it is a never ending cycle. ANET please do not continue to feed the cycle and fall into this trap it is a massive waste of time.
After the Derv update can we expect the same thread for whatever the awesome new OP Derv build is. I think we can.
Make it stop people.
Save it for GW2.
Xiaquin
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Originally Posted by Voodoo Rage
I think SoS is fine by the very nature that you can only have one type of spirit active at all times. It's not like there is a "SoS-way" where everyone has identical builds and rolls through elite areas (like they did with Ursan). Most solo farms involving SoS are fairly slow and tedious, definitely not something that will ever "break the economy".
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Ka Tet
2 things.
1. Not everyone is making the leap to WoW-clone, er GW2, so updates are still good.
2. Is there really a point to balancing PvE? If someone enjoys playing something in PvE, let them. They're not hurting anyone; ai doesn't have feelings.
1. Not everyone is making the leap to WoW-clone, er GW2, so updates are still good.
2. Is there really a point to balancing PvE? If someone enjoys playing something in PvE, let them. They're not hurting anyone; ai doesn't have feelings.