Oh well, you know what? There's always next month!
Ban during finals of monthly automated tournament
Resha
Yeah... they totally should have checked out what this guy was doing right before they (automatically?) banned him, then decided if he should get his ban right away or if he should be given special treatment and ban him after his very special PVP match. Like they do with every ban, no doubt. Wait... something here doesn't sound right. Hmmm. WHAT COULD IT BE?
Oh well, you know what? There's always next month!
Oh well, you know what? There's always next month!
Morphy
Sounds like someone got srsly pwnd.
Gill Halendt
Why do people assume that there's some guy on the other side of the line hitting a big, red "Ban User" button when this happens?
Accounts to be banned are likely put into a ban-list and then automatically banned in batches, so there's no way they could check the momentary activity of one single account, and it's pretty fine like that.
Accounts to be banned are likely put into a ban-list and then automatically banned in batches, so there's no way they could check the momentary activity of one single account, and it's pretty fine like that.
Ravious
Since this was an issue of automation rather than an issue of someone waiting for the mAT then flicking the switch and lol'ing. I think Dhuum should come only when the person is in an outpost. First off there are more people to see, and then stuff like this wouldn't happen.
Regardless of whether this was wrong or right, I do agree that actions occurring in this manner by ArenaNet likely do not help the health of the PvP population.
Regardless of whether this was wrong or right, I do agree that actions occurring in this manner by ArenaNet likely do not help the health of the PvP population.
Jade Zephyr
Izzy is amused..
Missing HB
I agree with everyone ( guy knew what to expect ) but we need remember 3 points :
- it's not real life , it's a game
- guy got the same punition as if he did bot ( i know bot = permaban , but in both cases he would have been out of mat )
- you need play regularly , get 20qpts , play long ( expect 8 players not to dc during 5 hours , etc...) to get to mat finals
- it's not real life , it's a game
- guy got the same punition as if he did bot ( i know bot = permaban , but in both cases he would have been out of mat )
- you need play regularly , get 20qpts , play long ( expect 8 players not to dc during 5 hours , etc...) to get to mat finals
FoxBat
- Most every competitive guild swears like a sailor at least in the privacy of their guild chat. They tend to be full of young men who don't have full-time jobs and can afford to play daily at a set time, what a surprise.
- Other players outside the guild can report you for language
- You can get banned for stuff said in your own guild chat that the reporters never even read.
It's very possible some group organized a mass report to get this guy knocked out. This has been known to happen in the past. If they organized against a different person they could knock near any competing guild out just the same.
Do we see the problem yet?
- Other players outside the guild can report you for language
- You can get banned for stuff said in your own guild chat that the reporters never even read.
It's very possible some group organized a mass report to get this guy knocked out. This has been known to happen in the past. If they organized against a different person they could knock near any competing guild out just the same.
Do we see the problem yet?
Essence Snow
Quote:
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Originally Posted by SongOf
Anet is a loser because the fans lose even more respect for them by allowing a ban at the shttiest time possible |
Aldric
So someone being a dick got a temp ban which happened to have been activated during them playing in the GvG mat final ? Big deal, maybe they wont be such an arse next time?
Anet didnt ruin the mat, there wasnt someone watching the game, read the comments and hit the BIGREDBANBUTTON, the player was at fault in the past and got reported for it. suck it up and dont be a pecker next time
Anet didnt ruin the mat, there wasnt someone watching the game, read the comments and hit the BIGREDBANBUTTON, the player was at fault in the past and got reported for it. suck it up and dont be a pecker next time
Jade Zephyr
It's hard to tell if the hard core carebear fanbase is a result of Anet's actions, or if Anet went soft because of the fanbase..
No one seems to care about competition the slightest.. Banning a player mid match for foul language (not even cheating) in an important tournament final is just uncalled for..
No one seems to care about competition the slightest.. Banning a player mid match for foul language (not even cheating) in an important tournament final is just uncalled for..
fr.aodhan
Out of curiosity, how do we know the reason for the ban? Just because someone was using foul language doesn't mean he wasn't doing other things - is there some in-game notification?
Kook~NBK~
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Originally Posted by lemming
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Aljasha
Tbh, there is no good time to ban people, only the right time. Since we don't know the true reason of the ban, the timing could be bad for the guild's reputation.
Killed u man
There's no reason for conspiracy theories, fr. It doesn't matter what else he did, the discussion is not about the rules he broke, it's about the penalty he, and his team indirectly, recieved.
I, however, completely side with Anet on this one. Despite the fact that it probably was an automated ban, aswell as the fact that Anet probably still don't know this occured, I don't believe any mistakes have been made.
Some broke the rules, and when his reports got reviewed, he got banned. The fact that he is in a mAT is a non-issue for several reasons. The same can be said about a UWSC when you woud've broken a record time or something, which for PvE'ers can compared to monthlies for PvP'ers. Or any other occassion where you invest a large amount of time, such as HoH runs (20+ cons)...
If playing an mAT stands above the EULA (Cuz this is what Lemming are arguing it should), where does it end? If someone hacked someone's acount, but he's then playing the mAT, should he not get banned for the full duration of the mAT? If someone is botting, should he not get banned?
Don't get me wrong, the timing definatly is poor, during the finals mid-match. But this is in no way an excuse to argue the grounds or legitimacy of his banning. The very fact that he got banned mid-finals is a reason the more for his guildies to "hate' him rather than Anet.
But then again, I gues 95% of these GvG'ers are 15 year old kids with no grip on reality, and no sense of responsibility for their actions whatsoever. Sadly there are even old kids who don't understand the basic principles of responsibility, and the consequences thereof.
I feel bad for all the people in that match (team and opposing team alike, as they probably feel they got a "tainted" cape), but there is only 1 person to blame.
I, however, completely side with Anet on this one. Despite the fact that it probably was an automated ban, aswell as the fact that Anet probably still don't know this occured, I don't believe any mistakes have been made.
Some broke the rules, and when his reports got reviewed, he got banned. The fact that he is in a mAT is a non-issue for several reasons. The same can be said about a UWSC when you woud've broken a record time or something, which for PvE'ers can compared to monthlies for PvP'ers. Or any other occassion where you invest a large amount of time, such as HoH runs (20+ cons)...
If playing an mAT stands above the EULA (Cuz this is what Lemming are arguing it should), where does it end? If someone hacked someone's acount, but he's then playing the mAT, should he not get banned for the full duration of the mAT? If someone is botting, should he not get banned?
Don't get me wrong, the timing definatly is poor, during the finals mid-match. But this is in no way an excuse to argue the grounds or legitimacy of his banning. The very fact that he got banned mid-finals is a reason the more for his guildies to "hate' him rather than Anet.
But then again, I gues 95% of these GvG'ers are 15 year old kids with no grip on reality, and no sense of responsibility for their actions whatsoever. Sadly there are even old kids who don't understand the basic principles of responsibility, and the consequences thereof.
I feel bad for all the people in that match (team and opposing team alike, as they probably feel they got a "tainted" cape), but there is only 1 person to blame.
fr.aodhan
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Killed u man
There's no reason for conspiracy theories, fr. It doesn't matter what else he did, the discussion is not about the rules he broke, it's about the penalty he, and his team indirectly, recieved.
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Burst Cancel
Timing of the ban aside, I'd like to see what the player was actually banned for. Banning for offensive speech or trashtalking is seriously weak to begin with, tournament or not.
Pretty clear that Izzy thinks PvP is a joke. We've known this for years though, given his history of "balancing" things.
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Originally Posted by Jade Zephyr
Izzy is amused..
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fowlero
Quote:
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Originally Posted by fr.aodhan
Hrm? I'm not suggesting a conspiracy theory. Rather, I'm asking how we know the ban was because of foul language, because that seems to be the working hypothesis. I personally don't know if the ban reasons are listed in-game.
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To Chicken To Die
Just another way Anet trying to piss off the active playing people and showing how stupid they really are. A ban is a ban and when deserved it should be done but in the middle of MaT... Thats like shitty timing such as skill updates etc. And really braindead action like the skill updates/balance. But this can go on the list of how to piss off active people probally just under the close guildwars for typo fix while your at 24 wins in RA or holding HoH.
And yes automated batches is a bad excuse for such a dumb act.
BTW a recent report I made for PvP misbehaviour got this reply:
Hello,
We certainly understand that there may be some disparaging remarks said during PvP. These are not typically considered strong enough to warrant an account suspension. There is a certain level of discourse during PvP battles due to the high level of emotional content and competition. If you feel that someone has violated the User Agreement or Rules of Conduct, we encourage you to report them for Verbal Abuse, and then add them to your Ignore List. We will investigate the incident and take action where necessary. Please let us know if you have additional questions.
Regards,
GM
The Guild Wars Support Team
And yes automated batches is a bad excuse for such a dumb act.
BTW a recent report I made for PvP misbehaviour got this reply:
Hello,
We certainly understand that there may be some disparaging remarks said during PvP. These are not typically considered strong enough to warrant an account suspension. There is a certain level of discourse during PvP battles due to the high level of emotional content and competition. If you feel that someone has violated the User Agreement or Rules of Conduct, we encourage you to report them for Verbal Abuse, and then add them to your Ignore List. We will investigate the incident and take action where necessary. Please let us know if you have additional questions.
Regards,
GM
The Guild Wars Support Team
jazilla
Quote:
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Originally Posted by SongOf
Here's my take:
One guild is a loser because of some idiot who blew winning gold for the team by getting banned... The other guild is a loser because they didn't 'rightfully' win the gold by playing what could have been an amazing final match The fans are losers because we don't get to watch a decent MAT through to the very end (...AGAIN) Anet is a loser because the fans lose even more respect for them by allowing a ban at the shttiest time possible Now I'm all for banning the dude if he violated any terms, but everybody is a loser when you activate bans (automated or not) in the freaking middle of a tournament match...especially finals! AS LONG AS IT'S NOT A SCRIPT/BOT RELATED BAN: Do it BEFORE the match if you insist, or after if you can't. And to all the analogies with other sports games: the difference with GW is we can't simply replace the banned player with another in the middle of a match. |
side note: homeboy was doing enough stuff to get banned and got banned. if homeboy would have regarded the rules this wouldn't have happened at all. don't cuss, treat people with respect, don't cheat and guess what? no ban.
Missing HB
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Killed u man
. Despite the fact that it probably was an automated ban, aswell as the fact that Anet probably still don't know this occured
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However , back to thread , point is that GvGer's will be careful now , especially in MaTs ( i guess people will just make local chats off or even get on kicking anyone who flames.. ) .
majoho
The usual people attack Anet when in this case there is EXACTLY one person to blame and that's the guy that got banned, he let his team down it wasn't Anets fault.
Still Number One
The only issue I have with this whole thing is that trash-talking happens in probably 50% of the PvP matches (yes that figure was completely randomly generated on my part, its just from my experiences). It probably happens even more often in mAT play because people have spent an entire month preparing for that day. Yet only one guy gets suspended for it, and it happened during an mAT final? I'm pretty sure most trash talkers don't get reported, but even the ones that do hardly ever get suspended for it.
I don't have a problem with the suspension, or the timing of it. The whole incident has just made me curious of what the line is that you would have to cross in order to get suspended, especially that quickly.
I feel bad for his team, but lesson learned, keep your mouth shut and play the game.
I don't have a problem with the suspension, or the timing of it. The whole incident has just made me curious of what the line is that you would have to cross in order to get suspended, especially that quickly.
I feel bad for his team, but lesson learned, keep your mouth shut and play the game.
Missmelady
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Burst Cancel
Timing of the ban aside, I'd like to see what the player was actually banned for. Banning for offensive speech or trashtalking is seriously weak to begin with, tournament or not.
Pretty clear that Izzy thinks PvP is a joke. We've known this for years though, given his history of "balancing" things. |
I do not believe Izzy has anything to do with pvp in guildwars anymore. He is on the guildwars 2 team. Nice joke.
As for his ban. I have had conflicting reports from people that were in the Mat and fought the team. Supposedly during the semifinals after nearly wiping the ele began to rage at the opposing team and his te
am in all chat. After of which the team he was on began to regain ground and ended up beating said team. At this point when the said team knew they were gonna lose they said what they hey let us report him for A. Language, B. racism, C. some claimed a blind bot was being used.
As for the timing of the ban it could not have been more perfect. If you broke the rules you face the consequences simple as that. The game is supposed to be fun for everyone and if he did not make it fun for the team they fought in the semi's then it serves him right and maybe he will keep his mouth shut. I am sorry but guildwars is not life. Comparing this to reallife events is pethetic at most. So what they got a silver and not a gold. Not like the million dollar turny series that used to go on. Its a fing video game, if you think it is like life then I suggest you go outside and get some sunlight.
Best regaurds
Glyph
Burst Cancel
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Missmelady
I do not believe Izzy has anything to do with pvp in guildwars anymore. He is on the guildwars 2 team. Nice joke.
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I'd like to see exactly what trashtalking was so bad that it merited a ban, particularly in light of the GM response posted above where it was clearly recognized that trashtalking in general is "not typically considered strong enough to warrant an account suspension".
But while we're on the topic of banning for offensive speech, I happen to find your assertion that people should simply keep their mouths shut incredibly offensive, and think that you be banned for making such a remark. Because you know, I have some God-given right not to be offended, ever, by anyone.
Gill Halendt
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Killed u man
I, however, completely side with Anet on this one. Despite the fact that it probably was an automated ban, aswell as the fact that Anet probably still don't know this occured, I don't believe any mistakes have been made.
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However, we still don't know wether this incident will have any impact on the tournament's final outcome or not.
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Originally Posted by Burst Cancel
Banning for offensive speech or trashtalking is seriously weak to begin with, tournament or not.
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In-game Infractions
The following will result in an account mark (suspension) or an account termination, depending upon the severity of the matter:
Inappropriate in-game behavior — such as obscene, offensive, or racist talk or behavior, abuse of another player, or harassment.
Please note that this was likely only a suspension, not an account termination.
Burst Cancel
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gill Halendt
snip
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by To Chicken To Die
Hello, We certainly understand that there may be some disparaging remarks said during PvP. These are not typically considered strong enough to warrant an account suspension. There is a certain level of discourse during PvP battles due to the high level of emotional content and competition. If you feel that someone has violated the User Agreement or Rules of Conduct, we encourage you to report them for Verbal Abuse, and then add them to your Ignore List. We will investigate the incident and take action where necessary. Please let us know if you have additional questions. Regards, GM The Guild Wars Support Team |
To be frank, I don't believe the ToC should even include a clause about offensive speech. For one, it is too open to interpretation, and for another, I don't think that, as a matter of principle, people should be protected by some higher authority from being offended.
Aljasha
Just don't insult people you don't even know. Imo it's not bad at all to ban people for improper behaviour and -fortunately - it happens in other games too.
Gill Halendt
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Burst Cancel
So again, I'd like to see exactly what was so offensive about what the player said that it warranted a suspension, and one that decided the outcome of the tournament final.
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Quote:
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Basic Details Some account actions come as the result of staff member observations; others came as the results of player report. All player reports are fully investigated. We will take action and place account marks only after careful consideration and a review of all available facts. |
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We do not issue warnings; the first mark, with its temporary account suspension, is considered a form of warning, and should be accepted as such by the player. We will not contact you externally (via email) to inform you of disciplinary action on your account. Instead, you will receive an in-game message that alerts you that your account has been rendered inaccessible. That alert will provide as specific a reason as we are able to give for the account mark, as well as the duration of the temporary account suspension. Those who report a possible rules infraction by another player may be given general information on the outcome of their report, but details may remain confidential. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Burst Cancel
To be frank, I don't believe the ToC should even include a clause about offensive speech. For one, it is too open to interpretation, and for another, I don't think that, as a matter of principle, people should be protected by some higher authority from being offended.
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Do you even live in a civilized country? You can't be serious.
Ariena Najea
If you are on a competitive team for any sport (or esport), your should only associate with other players you can count on to not drag down the team. By allowing someone on the team who would break the rules, the entire team is responsible.
It's a good thing that there aren't exceptions for when people can be physically banned since seeing Dhuum promotes awareness that bans regularly happen, rather than only happening in large batches in infrequent intervals (see yellow-text announcement when you log in). It was a poor decision to remove this match from observer mode for this reason.
It's a good thing that there aren't exceptions for when people can be physically banned since seeing Dhuum promotes awareness that bans regularly happen, rather than only happening in large batches in infrequent intervals (see yellow-text announcement when you log in). It was a poor decision to remove this match from observer mode for this reason.
Burst Cancel
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gill Halendt
So basically, you reclaim the right to tell whatever you like to whoever you please? Just because, who cares, it's the Internet?
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I'm aware that many people don't believe that others should be able to say or do anything that offends them; history is full of practical implementations of this mindset that, frankly, I don't think humanity should be proud of. But you know, when people do something grossly offensive - say, drawing caricatures of religious icons, just to pick an example at random - I don't think the appropriate response is to suppress them or demand the banhammer.
Yawgmoth
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Originally Posted by Ravious
I think Dhuum should come only when the person is in an outpost. First off there are more people to see, and then stuff like this wouldn't happen.
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lemming
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kook~NBK~
Help me out here. How is a conversation between A-Net and a player about a NON-SUSPENSION relevant to this particular discussion? I just don't see the point you're trying to make with that link.
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1. There's a lot of subjectivity in banning for offensive language.
2. As To Chicken To Die can confirm, allowances are made for context in enforcement.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Killed u man
Some broke the rules, and when his reports got reviewed, he got banned. The fact that he is in a mAT is a non-issue for several reasons. The same can be said about a UWSC when you woud've broken a record time or something, which for PvE'ers can compared to monthlies for PvP'ers. Or any other occassion where you invest a large amount of time, such as HoH runs (20+ cons)...
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Killed u man
If playing an mAT stands above the EULA (Cuz this is what Lemming are arguing it should), where does it end? If someone hacked someone's acount, but he's then playing the mAT, should he not get banned for the full duration of the mAT? If someone is botting, should he not get banned?
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Speaking of botting, don't you find it curious that JQ is still full of them?
The Drunkard
The moral of the story here is to trash talk on a mule account.
Errant Venture
The main problem here is that most of the users on guru (and particularly in this section) have never played high-end GvG. They don't understand how large the volume of trash-talking that occurs is. They don't understand that trash talking occurs repeatedly in every single match (even ladders), that a great deal of reporting occurs, and that all but an extremely tiny fraction of reports are completely ignored. The reason people are mad about this is that people curse in all chat and get reported for it many times every single match they play. Nothings results from these reports except for an extremely small selection. Gossip girl spammed a single swear in all chat a few times(and was provoked into doing so by PnR who responded in kind), all of PnR proceeded to report him with the intent of griefing him, and he was banned in the MIDDLE of the mAT final (the only event that really matters in GWs anymore) which effectively decided the game. The pvp community is upset because the only time Anet actually took action on one of the massive numbers of reports that occur daily, it effectively ruined the finals of the mAT.
tl;dr this thread is pointless because it's in a pve forum on a pve site and pvers don't give a damn about pvp and don't understand how the gvg community functions =\
tl;dr this thread is pointless because it's in a pve forum on a pve site and pvers don't give a damn about pvp and don't understand how the gvg community functions =\
RedDog91
Shocking development: People get banned for breaking the rules!
I think they were right to ban him during the tournament. If you think the MAT should be excluded from bannings, then maybe there should be a higher standard for players who participate. Some players look up to them as being the best of the best for being in the finals...he just happened to be a horrible role model and got punished.
I think they were right to ban him during the tournament. If you think the MAT should be excluded from bannings, then maybe there should be a higher standard for players who participate. Some players look up to them as being the best of the best for being in the finals...he just happened to be a horrible role model and got punished.
Errant Venture
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Errant Venture
The main problem here is that most of the users on guru (and particularly in this section) have never played high-end GvG. They don't understand how large the volume of trash-talking that occurs is. They don't understand that trash talking occurs repeatedly in every single match (even ladders), that a great deal of reporting occurs, and that all but an extremely tiny fraction of reports are completely ignored. The reason people are mad about this is that people curse in all chat and get reported for it many times every single match they play. Nothings results from these reports except for an extremely small selection. Gossip girl spammed a single swear in all chat a few times(and was provoked into doing so by PnR who responded in kind), all of PnR proceeded to report him with the intent of griefing him, and he was banned in the MIDDLE of the mAT final (the only event that really matters in GWs anymore) which effectively decided the game. The pvp community is upset because the only time Anet actually took action on one of the massive numbers of reports that occur daily, it effectively ruined the finals of the mAT.
tl;dr this thread is pointless because it's in a pve forum on a pve site and pvers don't give a damn about pvp and don't understand how the gvg community functions =\ |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RedDog91
Shocking development: People get banned for breaking the rules!
I think they were right to ban him during the tournament. If you think the MAT should be excluded from bannings, then maybe there should be a higher standard for players who participate. Some players look up to them as being the best of the best for being in the finals...he just happened to be a horrible role model and got punished. |
afya
think of it this way, if that player violated the EULA cuz of botting, should he be allowed to finish the match? u break the rule, u get banned right away, no matter it's botting, leeching or scamming. However, each ban must be evaluate thoroughly before taking action.
The only part Anet did wrong is to delete the match. Or is there something behind the match?
The only part Anet did wrong is to delete the match. Or is there something behind the match?
Errant Venture
Quote:
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Originally Posted by afya
think of it this way, if that player violated the EULA cuz of botting, should he be allowed to finish the match? u break the rule, u get banned right away, no matter it's botting, leeching or scamming. However, each ban must be evaluate thoroughly before taking action.
The only part Anet did wrong is to delete the match. Or is there something behind the match? |
Essence Snow
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Errant Venture
There's a big difference between a perma-ban for botting and a 3-day for offensive language. Offensive language occurs in EVERY SINGLE gvg match that's played, it's reported in every match, and it results in a ban incredibly infrequently. No one disputes that Gossip girl broke a rule, but it's a rule that's incredibly rarely enforced. Why was it enforced in a way that ruined the mAT and why did ANet try to cover it up by removing the match from obs mode immediately?
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Errant Venture
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Essence Snow
That doesn't make it ok to use foul language and/or justify said person use of language. Try telling a cop that ...a lot of ppl smoke pot...se if he/she lets u go after catching you with pot. Anet didnt ruin the mAT...the person that got banned did. If they hadn't done something to receive a ban the mAT would have gone off w/o a hitch. Very simple logic.
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