Make Zaishen Title Count for PvE Only - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

jazilla

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

Guernsey Milking Coalition[MiLk]

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22 Oct 2010 at 16:18 - 241

Quote:

Originally Posted by prinzess of life

To reach 50/50 should be accesible to anyone and not everyone has the time or the the friends to sync Random arena to get a titel that was easy earned by the the ppl like you that earned it when team arena was available. Because you can not tell me you earned it recently by playing in random arena where a 5 win streak is like a 6er in the lottery...every single win should go towards a titel and winning streaks should be rewarded with bonus points to make it accecible to anyone.

When you get 50/50 it says, "Seriously, you crazy!". The meaning of that is not everyone will get 50/50. I'm not going to discuss it with you though as you keep avoiding what I am saying and trying to twist it into something else.

Pritst Of Death

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2009

Texas

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22 Oct 2010 at 18:11 - 242

Quote:

Originally Posted by prinzess of life

I did more than enough PvP as i have earned a total of 3.181.995 Balthasar factions that alone gives me 636 Zaichen keys, enough to make my Zaichen titel a PvP earned titel. My 2 main PvP characters earned both 2 x 1.100.000 xp points in more than 1800 hours. I have done every single PvP that exists in game but i never had the right guild to earn champion points although i won and lost alot of GvG at one point, if a guild is not rated you get no titel...I did random arena well befor the gladiator title was invented and i can show you plenty of flawless and over 10 wins streaks , that was the time when PvP was fun and not a title grind ... maybe if they made the zaishen titel liked to the baltasar factions earned instead of making the z-keys sellable it would be recognized as a PvP titel by all, but then you would start QQ, ing that you can't make money of selling the z-keys.

you know about the zashian elite zashian challange you gain balth faction from both those and there not pvp your fighting ncps

prinzess of life

Banned

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22 Oct 2010 at 18:16 - 243

@ redstar , you don't like elite areas ? Then don't do them you dont need to do them to get 50/50, there are 47 non PvP statues available including the Zaishen one, ther's only 6 elite statues + LDoA (which nobody realy wants to do, not even PvEers...) So what it boils down to is that PvPers want to force everyone to do something they dont want and accept it that they dont need to do everything to get max reward, isn't that very strange. I don't want to spend the rest of my time in GW1 doing random arena's i rather enjoy playing the game after i did all that was needed to get 50/50.

Let me throw something else into this discussion, what if a powertrader says i worked so hard getting this panda why does a panda only count as one rare mini. All you need there is 1 rare 1 unique and 48 white ones to get 8/8. The resilience monument is the same, all you need there is obsidian, vabbi, kurzick and 4 other elite sets, if someone has all 20 diffrent armors plus every elite armor for every profession does he not diserve a better reward ?

My point is , if A-net wanted 50/50 only for people who maxed everything then there would be not many people who get it, so why are you insisting on a PvP titel while everything else that you didn't get doesn't count , just because you have it already ? Well i have 25 diffrent elite armors do i get anything better than you ? NO i just get 8/8 . Someone who did LDoA , does he get anything better than you ? NO the list goes on and on these are all things someone could claim , i know a person who has 85 diffrent minipets in her hall , you think she gets a better reward ?

prinzess of life

Banned

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22 Oct 2010 at 18:22 - 244

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazilla

When you get 50/50 it says, "Seriously, you crazy!". The meaning of that is not everyone will get 50/50. I'm not going to discuss it with you though as you keep avoiding what I am saying and trying to twist it into something else.

my calculator says:
"M-M-M-M-M-MONSTER KILL!
Seriously, you crazy.

does that not refer to PvE , which means you killed alot of monsters..?

Del

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2009

In a van, down by the river.

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22 Oct 2010 at 18:42 - 245

Quote:

Originally Posted by prinzess of life

my calculator says:
"M-M-M-M-M-MONSTER KILL!
Seriously, you crazy.

does that not refer to PvE , which means you killed alot of monsters..?

Nope.jpg google it. Also, the phrase monster kill, and the fact that you kill monsters is completely irrelevant. No better fallacious points to argue?

dwchang

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

Legion of Losers [LOL]

22 Oct 2010 at 19:41 - 246

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

If you made a 'real' PvP title as a requirement, you'll get annoyed players that don't really want to do PvP messing with PvP modes.

That's fine. No one is FORCING them to PvP. What players are saying is that if you want 50/50, a title that implies you are competent in all aspects of the game, you should have to EARN the PvP trophy via...PvP.

I don't get why we're still arguing about that. And I also don't get why people keep saying it'd "force" people to PvP. If you want the trophy, you'll put the work in. Just as I would rather not vanquish all of Tyria, if I want the trophy/title, I'll do it b/c the vanity trophy means that much to me (it doesn't). If you hate PvP that much, then deal with the lack of vanity title. No one is forcing you to PvP and no one is entitled to 50/50. You should have to earn it.

(For the record, I also don't support paying people to do your PvE titles so it goes both ways)

Quote:

Originally Posted by prinzess of life

The point you are trying to make is anyone who has gladiator rank 3 wants a better reward than people who don't do PvP at all.

This is yet another misconception. I (and many other PvP players) never said we want "better rewards" for having PvP'ed. We're simply saying that to name a trophy "PvP title" then you should have to actually PvP to get it. I'm perfectly fine with PvP and PvE players having ACCESS to the same rewards and then the player deciding if they want to put the work in to achieve it. If they'd rather not play a particular aspect of the game, then so be it.

A.net shouldn't have to babysit players and make 50/50 so accessible. They already made 30/50 easily accessible after all. That is simply what many of the PvP players are saying. We're not advocating "Please give me more rewards because I am awesome at PvP" or something ridiculous like that. Most of us are arguing this from the logic and principle standpoint.

RedStar

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22 Oct 2010 at 22:24 - 247

Quote:

@ redstar , you don't like elite areas ? Then don't do them you dont need to do them to get 50/50, there are 47 non PvP statues available including the Zaishen one, ther's only 6 elite statues + LDoA (which nobody realy wants to do, not even PvEers...) So what it boils down to is that PvPers want to force everyone to do something they dont want and accept it that they dont need to do everything to get max reward, isn't that very strange. I don't want to spend the rest of my time in GW1 doing random arena's i rather enjoy playing the game after i did all that was needed to get 50/50.

I have no problem at all with any elites areas and enjoy doing them. The only annoying thing about this game is my lack of luck with gifts...but that's another story. (I admit my example wasn't the best since you aren't required for specific PvE statues).

Quote:

Let me throw something else into this discussion, what if a powertrader says i worked so hard getting this panda why does a panda only count as one rare mini. All you need there is 1 rare 1 unique and 48 white ones to get 8/8. The resilience monument is the same, all you need there is obsidian, vabbi, kurzick and 4 other elite sets, if someone has all 20 diffrent armors plus every elite armor for every profession does he not diserve a better reward ?

You are comparing minis only a thousand people can get to titles that anyone can get in at least a year if they really want to ?
Now the resilience monument I don't understand...they ask every hero in the HoM yet not every elite armors...(or at least close to every).

Quote:

NO the list goes on and on these are all things someone could claim , i know a person who has 85 diffrent minipets in her hall , you think she gets a better reward ?

And someone has identified over 40 000 golds...point is : that person is a farmer and the person you speak of likes minipets (I think).

I think ANet doesn't want someone to have explored every corner, killed every monster, owned every titles, weapons and minipets. They just want someone to have played every aspect of the game.
It's not like they thought "hey let's throw a big middle finger to PvErs and ask a PvP title".

And buying a key from someone else who obtained it by PvP (at least 80% of those being sold) and opening a chest 200 times isn't really a major part of this game...

Quote:

So just because the OP has rank 3 Gladiator which is 400 pts , which is only 1% of the total titel (max gladiator is 40.000) he deserves a better reward than PvE'ers that chose to max out all their PvE titels... If thats the case then i want every PvE titles to be put in HoM as soon as you reach 1% of it's maximum. Let's see Sunspear monument at 500 pts , wisdom at 100 id's , Savior at 100.000, mapping a 1%...

I know what I'm doing is kind of childish right now but I could say the same thing about the Zaishen title requirement.

prinzess of life

Banned

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22 Oct 2010 at 22:28 - 248

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwchang

That's fine. No one is FORCING them to PvP. What players are saying is that if you want 50/50, a title that implies you are competent in all aspects of the game, you should have to EARN the PvP trophy via...PvP.

I don't get why we're still arguing about that. And I also don't get why people keep saying it'd "force" people to PvP. If you want the trophy, you'll put the work in. Just as I would rather not vanquish all of Tyria, if I want the trophy/title, I'll do it b/c the vanity trophy means that much to me (it doesn't). If you hate PvP that much, then deal with the lack of vanity title. No one is forcing you to PvP and no one is entitled to 50/50. You should have to earn it.

(For the record, I also don't support paying people to do your PvE titles so it goes both ways)

This is yet another misconception. I (and many other PvP players) never said we want "better rewards" for having PvP'ed. We're simply saying that to name a trophy "PvP title" then you should have to actually PvP to get it. I'm perfectly fine with PvP and PvE players having ACCESS to the same rewards and then the player deciding if they want to put the work in to achieve it. If they'd rather not play a particular aspect of the game, then so be it.

A.net shouldn't have to babysit players and make 50/50 so accessible. They already made 30/50 easily accessible after all. That is simply what many of the PvP players are saying. We're not advocating "Please give me more rewards because I am awesome at PvP" or something ridiculous like that. Most of us are arguing this from the logic and principle standpoint.

1) You don't have to be competent in any of the PvE titels to get the statues so why should you have to be competent to get a PvP one?

2) Is earning Balthasar factions not enough to prove at some point of playing the game you did some PvP , i played a PvP ele in AB for 719 hours and a PvP mesmer in AB and GvG for 557 hours and various other characters , by the way i got my savior of the luxons title by playing AB 30th june 2007 that makes me one of the first savior of luxons around at that time, i surely didn't waste my time loseing games and i never did speed clears at all don't tell me i didn't do enough PvP to diserve it.

Lord Mip

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2006

Somewhere in a distant land..

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22 Oct 2010 at 23:41 - 249

Counterargument in short: Don't blame us for not having a PvP statue because we liked to do AB/JQ/FA more than doing HA or Syncing stuff.

RedStar

Wilds Pathfinder

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23 Oct 2010 at 00:37 - 250

Quote:

1) You don't have to be competent in any of the PvE titels to get the statues so why should you have to be competent to get a PvP one?

So what ? You are now saying a PvP title is too hard to get so it should be given to anyone just like some PvE titles (I'm not going to discuss on the difficulty of PvE titles, some find them hard, some find them easy, some just find them time consuming).

Now on the kurz/lux discussion I don't really want to get into this debate because while some people got it through pure AB/FA (not JQ, because at the time, no one played in JQ...), more people got it with HFFF and a lot more with DTSC/MQSC.
But this debate is more along the lines of "I did it the hard way and a few days/months later they introduced an easier way". Debates like these kind of lead no where except at

Quote:

"Look my e-peen is bigger than yours!"

Quote:

Is earning Balthazar factions not enough to prove at some point of playing the game you did some PvP

It should be enough, yet a title for that doesn't exist yet. And zaishen isn't a representative of Balthazar faction...

Shayne Hawke

Departed from Tyria

Join Date: May 2007

Clan Dethryche [dth]

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23 Oct 2010 at 01:19 - 251

Quote:

Originally Posted by prinzess of life

2) Is earning Balthasar factions not enough to prove at some point of playing the game you did some PvP

No, it is not.

RedStar

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23 Oct 2010 at 01:22 - 252

Wow...I actually forgot about that...Ah the everyday "oh let's go get an easy Zkey".

dwchang

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

Legion of Losers [LOL]

23 Oct 2010 at 01:39 - 253

Quote:

Originally Posted by prinzess of life

1) You don't have to be competent in any of the PvE titels to get the statues so why should you have to be competent to get a PvP one?

You're right which is why I said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwchang

(For the record, I also don't support paying people to do your PvE titles so it goes both ways)

As for the competence, you may not be "the best PvE'er" ever (whatever that means), but if you can beat the elite areas or follow directions so that you beat them, obviously you are competent. By the same token, if you can follow directions or learn things after some practice, you *can* become a competent PvP player as well.

PvE, just like PvP, actually takes some effort (for some parts). You can't just go into Fissure of Woe or Underworld without any preparation and the same goes for PvP. Obviously we can agree that you can get some (if not most) of the PvE trophies without being THAT good, but you still need to have some level of competence (beyond buying titles).

Quote:

Originally Posted by prinzess of life

2) Is earning Balthasar factions not enough to prove at some point of playing the game you did some PvP , i played a PvP ele in AB for 719 hours and a PvP mesmer in AB and GvG for 557 hours and various other characters , by the way i got my savior of the luxons title by playing AB 30th june 2007 that makes me one of the first savior of luxons around at that time, i surely didn't waste my time loseing games and i never did speed clears at all don't tell me i didn't do enough PvP to diserve it.

Sure. In a perfect situation, A.net would have kept track of your activities and rewarded "PvP" trophies accordingly. In your situation, frankly I believe that would be the most fair solution. However, the suggestion is merely bringing to light that the vast majority of players with the "PvP" Zaishen Title did not earn it via PvP and thus it'd be nice if they solved this.

Most of us realize this will never happen since it'd create a whinefest, but I still don't understand why people can't understand at least what principle or idea we're arguing.

The "ideal" solution would allow folks who actually earned their keys to get the PvP trophy via the Zaishen title and players like you to earn it via the "Luxon" trophy. Sadly, we currently have a situation that is far from idea. That is what we are discussing (I think).

Terrible Surgeon

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2009

hopper

A/

23 Oct 2010 at 08:36 - 254

/signed

I used to like buying Zkeys with my balthazar faction and I got z7 earning every key on my own in things like RA, HB, TA, GvG and HA. However, I see so many r10 norn pve players just buying the title it means nothing to me anymore. In fact, I'm embarrassed to zrank at all because it is a tainted title that can be bought. I don't want to be affiliated with players that can buy a title.

Some titles you must buy. Drunkard and other titles that require you to obtain and use items, i understand you must purchase alcohol and sweets and party points to get the max title in a reasonable amount of time. However, buying a title that can only be gained through pvp play is just wrong...balthazar faction is required to get a Zkey, or reward points can be used to gain a Zkey. I personally think Zkeys should have been an unsellable item and non-tradeable item. This would have saved a lot of headaches in GW pvp like RR farmers in HB and RA leavers on Zquest days. Not to mention tanker guilds in GVG that farm GVG zQuest.

The damage was done, the Z title lacks any meaning now and i say make it a PvE title exclusively. It can be bought, and thus lacks any significance other than you farmed ectos or ran dtsc a lot.

Basically: pve players buying a pvp title that they did not earn is dumb...

UnChosen

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

23 Oct 2010 at 10:03 - 255

/not signed.

Plenty of people earned their Zaishen title without actually buying Z-key.

cantalus

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2005

23 Oct 2010 at 10:14 - 256

i earned my title pvping, i've got 18.5mil balth, however, i still think it's not a pvp title, it could've been but i guess anet wanted the pve community to have something to emote

it's not a pvp title

RedStar

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23 Oct 2010 at 12:35 - 257

Quote:

/not signed.

Plenty of people earned their Zaishen title without actually buying Z-key.

Guru is a tiny minority compared to the GW world, but do you really think that more than 50% of people that have this title did it exclusively by PvP ?

Seeing how much zkeys are sold everyday since they were created, I'm pretty sure more people got it by buying them since day one than by getting them with Balthazar faction and reward points and using them.

prinzess of life

Banned

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23 Oct 2010 at 13:07 - 258

I just looked at the Guild Ladder and found another injustice, there are actually people in guilds that did for example guild rank 293 "Loin du monde" 2722 wins 2785 loses , rating 1096 ... because their rating is not above 1200 they never earned any champion points , do you think those people are happy about not having a PvP titel other than Zaishen to put in theire hom. And don't tell me they didn't work for it to have 2722 wins in GvG you must be working hard and to do a total of 5507 GvG is also a prove that you did alot of PvP. Anyone who can C-space trough an area can earn a reputation titel but when it comes to PvP titles you have to be in a rating 1200 guild to earn champion points or you have to get 5 consecutive wins to get 1 gladiator point or you have to be ranked in the first place to join a HA team that can win ... oh and sorry i did'nt fancy doing Red resign while it was available in Hero Battles and i also dont do Red resign now in Codex arenas and i know it's done all the time now. And all my PvE titles i worked for i never bought a unid item for wisdom i never bought sweet/party/drunk point.

Of subject : I was at the Gamscon in Germany, i have seen Guildwars 2 , there is no real PvP in Guildwars 2 any hardcore PvP player will not even play that game anymore , so yes the HoM calculatot should only consider PvE titels because nobody who just did PvP in guildwars 1 will be interested in the upcoming Game.

RedStar

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23 Oct 2010 at 13:54 - 259

Quote:

Of subject : I was at the Gamscon in Germany, i have seen Guildwars 2 , there is no real PvP in Guildwars 2 any hardcore PvP player will not even play that game anymore , so yes the HoM calculatot should only consider PvE titels because nobody who just did PvP in guildwars 1 will be interested in the upcoming Game.

Oh so you went to see a demo about a game that won't be released for more than a year and you are surprise that they didn't introduced a new system for people that only have 40 minutes of play time ?
For that matter I'm afraid that there won't be any elder dragon because there wasn't any in the demo even thought they have said since the beginning that there will be.
Talking about an unfinished product when we have very few informations is totally irrelevant.

Quote:

I just looked at the Guild Ladder [...]2722 wins 2785 loses

So you randomly picked a guild ?
The last time the ladder was reset was in 2007. I don't know how old that guild is (and I think you don't either) so choosing a random guild for an argument isn't the best...

Quote:

because their rating is not above 1200 they never earned any champion points

What do you know about that ? Maybe their rating was above 1200 at a time and then people left the guild and the rating fell when they started losing instead of winning.

It's known by so many people that GvG is dead.
And if they didn't required a certain rating, this title could be obtained even more easily than any title you can think of : bad guild challenges awfully bad guild, bad guild wins because not all of their warriors had Fire Storm + Meteor Shower.

I don't know how many times I have to say it, but I'll keep saying it : if you want to get a title, join a guild that is going after that title. And try to look for more than 10 minutes...I can already see the "QQ it's full of elitist guilds and no one wants me to be part of their guild because I'm not ranked, QQ PvPers suck" (could have said the same thing by just changing "ranked" by "having a 1337 armor/weapon" and "PvPers" by "PvErs). Elitists exist on both sides of this game.

Asking people to play PvP to get 50/50 is not some elitist behavior.

drkn

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2009

Wroc??aw, Poland

Midnight Mayhem

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23 Oct 2010 at 13:59 - 260

Quote:

Seeing how much zkeys are sold everyday since they were created, I'm pretty sure more people got it by buying them since day one than by getting them with Balthazar faction and reward points and using them.

So you say that most of the keys being sold nowadays has been in the circulation since the early days of GW, aka no one actually uses up the keys but keeps them as a currency instead?
WTS basic observation and common logic.

Quote:

Of subject : I was at the Gamscon in Germany, i have seen Guildwars 2 , there is no real PvP in Guildwars 2 any hardcore PvP player will not even play that game anymore , so yes the HoM calculatot should only consider PvE titels because nobody who just did PvP in guildwars 1 will be interested in the upcoming Game.

Maybe because the demo was meant to show a tiny little bit of the PvE gameplay, while we still know about quite interesting PvP formats incoming?

RedStar

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23 Oct 2010 at 14:02 - 261

Quote:

So you say that most of the keys being sold nowadays has been in the circulation since the early days of GW, aka no one actually uses up the keys but keeps them as a currency instead?
WTS basic observation and common logic.

>.<
No I meant that since the day that Zkeys was introduced people started selling them and other started buying them to open the chest. And now 2 years later (I think, not sure) there are even more buyer and even more sellers.

Oh forgot that the zaishen title wasn't introduced at the same time as Zkeys....so I'll rephrase my argument : since the day that title was created, more people sold and bought Zkeys than people who played PvP to obtain those keys and open the chest.

prinzess of life

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2007

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23 Oct 2010 at 14:59 - 262

@redstar , when do you PvP people get it, this forum is not about winning or loesing with arguments, it's about making public your own opinion and my opinion is that a guild or player in that guild that has participated in 5507 GvG games and won 2722 of those diserves a recognition no matter if they won against a bad guild or a good guild. In your logic the highest ranked guild should not get points since they are obviously the best and always win against worse people than them , so why should they get points ?
Just the fact you won should reward you with 1 point, same as opening any high end chest gives you 1 point towards chest titel and id'ing any rare item gives you 1 point to wisdom titel. Any PvE titel is accesible to the whole playerbase but PvP titles are restricted to just a few. In the example of the Champion title at this moment in time only 150 guilds have a high enough rating to be able to earn champion points and most of them are inactive ao only a few 100 people are able to earn champion points, thats not fair !!!

Del

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2009

In a van, down by the river.

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO if I know, ask Lynette.

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23 Oct 2010 at 15:49 - 263

Quote:

Originally Posted by prinzess of life

@redstar , when do you PvP people get it, this forum is not about winning or loesing with arguments, it's about making public your own opinion.

You done goofed. Not sure if you're developmentally impaired or not, so I'll try to be as tactful as possible.
1: It's a debate, the point is, in fact, to argue your point.
2: You make it sound as if pvpers are the entire population of people on guru that argue. But yes, in truth, as it is obvious to those lacking a developmental disability, both pvers and pvpers argue, get over it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prinzess of life

and my opinion is that a guild or player in that guild that has participated in 5507 GvG games and won 2722 of those diserves a recognition no matter if they won against a bad guild or a good guild. In your logic the highest ranked guild should not get points since they are obviously the best and always win against worse people than them , so why should they get points ?

Your opinion is bad and you should feel bad. The fact that guilds have to get into champ range deters syncing, and makes it harder for guilds to farm/sell champ points. Also keeps them from tanking their rating till they get matched against bad players to farm.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prinzess of life

Any PvE titel is accesible to the whole playerbase but PvP titles are restricted to just a few.

PvP is not PvE. Why should pvp titles work the same way?

Quote:

Originally Posted by prinzess of life

In the example of the Champion title at this moment in time only 150 guilds have a high enough rating to be able to earn champion points and most of them are inactive ao only a few 100 people are able to earn champion points, thats not fair !!!

In a recent study, it was proven that 100% of the people that pull bad statistics out of their asses are twits.

tazer

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2006

Tiny Siege Turtles

23 Oct 2010 at 15:50 - 264

Aside from all (in)justice speculations: you can have r3 Zaishen with absolutely no FB (that is ZERO) and just because of this little fact, the title should not be counted for PvP.
PvP gamers (that it those and only those that should be recognised by PvP statues in HoM) will earn other eligible PvP titles anyway, so no harm for them anyway.
And any other players that won't... well, they are no PvP gamers then and therefore should not be recognised as them in their HoMs, as simple as that.

RedStar

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Join Date: Jul 2007

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23 Oct 2010 at 16:02 - 265

And when will people get that PvE and PvP aren't ways of life ?
I've spend more than 75% of time in PvE and I'm 100 points away from glad r3. I just find it abnormal to get a title that supposedly shows that you have played every aspect of the game yet refuse to set foot in one of the battle isles arena (looking for a group/guild for 10 minutes doesn't even count).

Quote:

this forum is not about winning or loesing with arguments,

It's about debating on a subject. And to have a good debate you choose good non biased arguments.

Quote:

Any PvE titel is accesible to the whole playerbase but PvP titles are restricted to just a few. In the example of the Champion title at this moment in time only 150 guilds have a high enough rating to be able to earn champion points and most of them are inactive ao only a few 100 people are able to earn champion points, thats not fair !!!

Is it the game's fault or the players fault ?
3 years ago it didn't bothered anyone because people actually played GvG. Now only few people do it, so only a few guilds have a rating above 1200 and it's because people don't want to play GvG.
For all we know that guild you mentioned could have been a training guild (new members join that guild, participate in a lot of GvG and when they are good enough they leave that guild and join the real GvG guild. A lot of alliances used to have those).
Anyways with only 156 guilds with a rating above 1200, everyone agrees that something must be done to draw more player to playing GvG and not change how the champion title works.

Some will say that it's the game fault because there aren't enough good skill updates but in the end it's the players that don't want to play.

If henchmen and heroes weren't available in PvE the same complain could occur (They are available in GvG and HA too, but you can't form a team of henchmen...and really...do you even want to take a henchmen...).

Quote:

In your logic the highest ranked guild should not get points since they are obviously the best and always win against worse people than them , so why should they get points ?

Both guilds need to have a rating of 1200. Think of it as a way for lower (and inexperienced) guilds to not get "farmed" by higher (and normally more experienced) guilds.

jazilla

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

Guernsey Milking Coalition[MiLk]

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23 Oct 2010 at 16:50 - 266

If anything, it's pretty obvious that this is a really polarizing topic. I just wish I could have been a fly on the wall at the meeting where they decided to have the z-title be a PvP title. It would be easier to deduce how it was allowed if I could see A-Net employees HoM Calculators

I really have a feeling that the topic is just as polarizing for them as it is for us. The Z-Title as PvP title would ensure that they all had a crack at 50/50 as I would imagine a big chunk of their staff detests PvP.

prinzess of life

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2007

outside U.S. where Guru can't send the Prizes won in a contest.

Prinzess found his Princess[KaJo]

W/A

23 Oct 2010 at 23:54 - 267

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

You done goofed. Not sure if you're developmentally impaired or not, so I'll try to be as tactful as possible.
1: It's a debate, the point is, in fact, to argue your point.
2: You make it sound as if pvpers are the entire population of people on guru that argue. But yes, in truth, as it is obvious to those lacking a developmental disability, both pvers and pvpers argue, get over it.

Do you have a problem with developmentally impaired people ?
- I suggest a few hours social work in a home for developmentally impaired people instead of playing video games could change your mind. You are the one who should feel bad.

On topic again, well said PvE is not PvP and thats why there should be PvE rewards and PvP rewards and A-net was wrong puting both type of players in one bowl. PvPers diserve getting rewards for their work , they should get diffrent items and diffrent titels to PvEers , for each rank they have in one of the PvP titels they could get additional items that PvEer dont get. So let the best overall PvPer get the highest reward and people who just touched PvP by geting the absolute minimum (i.e. Gladiator rank3 ) get a reward reflecting exaclty this.

Del

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Join Date: Sep 2009

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24 Oct 2010 at 01:06 - 268

Quote:

Originally Posted by prinzess of life

Do you have a problem with developmentally impaired people ?
- I suggest a few hours social work in a home for developmentally impaired people instead of playing video games could change your mind. You are the one who should feel bad.

I have no problem with the mentally deficient(as long as i don't have to read their feeble arguments on guru).

Quote:

Originally Posted by prinzess of life

On topic again, well said PvE is not PvP and thats why there should be PvE rewards and PvP rewards and A-net was wrong puting both type of players in one bowl. PvPers diserve getting rewards for their work , they should get diffrent items and diffrent titels to PvEers , for each rank they have in one of the PvP titels they could get additional items that PvEer dont get. So let the best overall PvPer get the highest reward and people who just touched PvP by geting the absolute minimum (i.e. Gladiator rank3 ) get a reward reflecting exaclty this.

Yeah, sure, novel idea. But this is not about how much pve your play in gw1, nor how much pvp you played. It's a measure of how much guildwars you play. And the fact that you don't have to play any pvp whatsoever to get 50/50 is a sham.

Pritst Of Death

Academy Page

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Texas

CGU

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24 Oct 2010 at 01:29 - 269

i'm actually still not sure what his argument really is i feel like he keeps rambelling on and on about the same post and same topics when he's already been proved wrong by more than one person

hitsuji182

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Join Date: Dec 2008

Poland

The Autonomy [?????????]

Mo/A

24 Oct 2010 at 01:33 - 270

Probably all obvious points were considered in this thread, so i just simply...

/signed this idea.

Essence Snow

Unbridled Enthusiasm!

Join Date: Nov 2009

EST

DPR

24 Oct 2010 at 06:26 - 271

Everyone should have to play every proffession through every campaign/quest/area and and in every catagory of PvP for 50/50....is this what ya'll mean by exp. every aspect of the game?..B/C that's truely it...if not...plz come on.....no room to say otherwise. Don't use that as an arguement.

lemming

The Hotshot

Join Date: May 2006

Honolulu

International District [id???]

24 Oct 2010 at 06:31 - 272

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

Everyone should have to play every proffession through every campaign/quest/area and and in every catagory of PvP for 50/50....is this what ya'll mean by exp. every aspect of the game?..B/C that's truely it...if not...plz come on.....no room to say otherwise. Don't use that as an arguement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Essence Snow

Unbridled Enthusiasm!

Join Date: Nov 2009

EST

DPR

24 Oct 2010 at 06:38 - 273

Let me quote it for ya then.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwchang

That's fine. No one is FORCING them to PvP. What players are saying is that if you want 50/50, a title that implies you are competent in all aspects of the game, you should have to EARN the PvP trophy via...PvP.

Twas not what u thought

prinzess of life

Banned

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outside U.S. where Guru can't send the Prizes won in a contest.

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24 Oct 2010 at 09:32 - 274

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pritst Of Death

i'm actually still not sure what his argument really is i feel like he keeps rambelling on and on about the same post and same topics when he's already been proved wrong by more than one person

If you are not sure what i'm saying i say it again. From my point of view.
- I have done Random Arena & Team Arena befor and after the Gladiator titel got introduced.
- In one of the first guilds i was we did GvG without ever getting a rating above 1200 because even with +80 ppl we could never manage to have the same core ppl doing it , diffrent timezones , work...yes some GW players have a Real Life.
- I have done over 80% of my Luxon Savior titel in AB befor A-net decided to cheapen that titel by introducing methodes like Speeed clears and doubling up the factions
-I participated in all kind of festival games.
-I did hero battles without RR days
The only method to prove all this is the over 3 million baltasar points i earned , i have only done zaishen elite trapping once and i think thats cheatting!! So i never did that again.

Now People here keep saying it's about having done PvP , it's about having steped foot into every aspect of the game .... i have done all that. Everything on that HoM calculator is doable by just playing the game, you don't need to be an expert at it. Every single PvE titel has been cheapened. Has anyone done vainquishing or elite missions befor they introduced consets? If you have you know how i feel about how easy they made those titels attainable for everyone.
Every PvE titel got handed out on a plate. The PvP titels are all as hard to earn as befor , and the gladiator titel is even harder to earn now since they removed Team Arena.

So A-Net decided to make the Zaishen titel a PvP titel, it's not my fault some people bought the titel , i'm not happy about that either, but i don't mind them geting 50/50 this way , they have to live with it that they "cheated the system" by geting a PvP titel by not doing PvP. (In my opinion there should be no Zaishen titel but a Balthasar faction titel that takes into account the factions you earned over time)

As for the person called "Del" , stop insulting people you don't know. An even if i was mentaly deficient , what does that have to do in this forum. If you want to speak out your feelings about medical subjects go on a medical forum.

RedStar

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24 Oct 2010 at 13:06 - 275

Quote:

competent in all aspects of the game

That doesn't mean that you have the time to click on an inventory icon ten thousand times or that you have the time to search for every single quests, go kill the quest's objective and come back for your reward. Just like it doesn't mean that you need to have a maxed PvP title.

Quote:

A-net was wrong puting both type of players in one bowl.

No they weren't. Since day one they wanted people to be able to play both sides of this game. Then time passed and PvE and PvP started to appear as 2 different and incompatible way of life...

Let's forget for a few seconds AB/FA/JQ.
You didn't do enough consecutive wins in RA to get Glad r3. If you are not happy then go and do them.
You don't see someone saying "I vanquished 10 areas in Elona so I should be able to put the statue in my HoM" (and if you do...then that person wants to one day log into their account and find a stack of armbraces).

I completely fail to understand the hatred that some players have towards RA/HA/GvG. Sure you find a lot of a*******, just like in PvE and also like PvE you can find fun peoples.

And all of those that are against making the zaishen title a PvE title just hate PvP (don't give me a BS excuse like "I like those arenas, I'm fighting for those that don't"...).

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The PvP titels are all as hard to earn as befor

IWAY, SWAY, Ranger way, *insert almost anything*-way. All of those "cheap" team builds for HA to quickly earn fame because they aren't that hard to use or all of those sins and rangers build in RA that ANet had to nerf every update, all of those things make those title faster. They are easy to use and can be annoying to counter.
A PvP title may seem hard to obtain, but with the right build, it's just a matter of time and a tiny bit of luck. Just like you go on the wiki to do some research about the area or mission you are going to do, go on the forums to see what the builds are right now...(and if you don't go on the wiki for those reasons because you consider it "cheating" well good for you, you can also try to create your own build. But you will soon realize that every half good build has been posted. There is also so much "good" builds that can be created : take a profession, put a rez signet, choose an elite, choose skills that will go well with that elite => tada you have a build that has already been created (except for 1 or 2 skills) or you have a build that sucks).

Quote:

Every single PvE titel has been cheapened.

Even if they have been cheapened, they still have to be done the same way : you still need to kill every monsters, to explore every areas, to get every missions and bonuses. Yet for the zaishen title you don't even need to have obtained ONE Balthazar point, you can simply buy 200 keys.
(For sweet tooth, party animal and ale hound you need to buy the items, if you buy time from players or from an NPC, it's the same thing. And before you give a completely impossible example of "buying 10 000 unidentified gold" well you need to have to cash to do it, so you have to farm, and unless you are completely unlucky, you are bound to have identified a few gold items).

Quote:

- I have done over 80% of my Luxon Savior titel in AB

Quote:

i never did speed clears at all don't tell me i didn't do enough PvP to diserve it.

Wait...you either did the last 20% by FA (not JQ, let's not lie that much) or you kind of lied to back up your statement.

dwchang

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

Legion of Losers [LOL]

24 Oct 2010 at 16:28 - 276

Quote:

Originally Posted by prinzess of life

The only method to prove all this is the over 3 million baltasar points i earned , i have only done zaishen elite trapping once and i think thats cheatting!! So i never did that again.

Now People here keep saying it's about having done PvP , it's about having steped foot into every aspect of the game .... i have done all that.

Honestly in your situation I think the title for PvP should have been something much simpler like having to earn a certain amount of balthazar's faction, but the problem with that is you *can* farm Balth Faction thus making for the same set of problems we have here (i.e. people not truly earning the title).

I realize you're a special case and thus deserve credit, but I honestly don't know what the "perfect" solution is. As I've said (many times now), many of us are arguing this from a principle standpoint and fully know nothing will change since too many people will be (rightfully) pissed having spent so much money. The only thing that annoys us (well at least me) is people not even acknowledging that the "PvP title" is a joke and not representative of what A.net was aiming for or this arrogant sense of entitlement like they deserve vanity titles even though they haven't truly earned it. On that, it looks like you and I can agree. It's a shame 50/50 on the HoM could not have been made into something more meaningful that could actually be respected in GW2.

Pritst Of Death

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Join Date: Nov 2009

Texas

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25 Oct 2010 at 05:17 - 277

Quote:

Originally Posted by prinzess of life

If you are not sure what i'm saying i say it again. From my point of view.
- I have done Random Arena & Team Arena befor and after the Gladiator titel got introduced.
- In one of the first guilds i was we did GvG without ever getting a rating above 1200 because even with +80 ppl we could never manage to have the same core ppl doing it , diffrent timezones , work...yes some GW players have a Real Life.
- I have done over 80% of my Luxon Savior titel in AB befor A-net decided to cheapen that titel by introducing methodes like Speeed clears and doubling up the factions
-I participated in all kind of festival games.
-I did hero battles without RR days
The only method to prove all this is the over 3 million baltasar points i earned , i have only done zaishen elite trapping once and i think thats cheatting!! So i never did that again.

the same can be said for me for all the above but i've have not done ra enough for a title and i speed cleared most my titles for luxon and kruz but after maxing it i've done enough jq to put another 21 mill on luxon and 5 mill on kruz, i got r4 commander but playing legit. and yes i have a real life full time student and work 30+ hours a week and i have 6 mill on my balth faction so with all the being said so what. i can compare everything you've done but it don't change anything and your not the only one who has done things like that. and some of us don't like having out pvp titles cheapned. maybe your cool with the only reward for all your ha and ta and ra and hb as a extra 5k for your balth cap but some of us want more than that and having pve'ers earn it with only 150e is unfair and that the point your not seaming to grasp

Hobbs

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

Organised Spam [OS]

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26 Oct 2010 at 02:04 - 278

Meh...billions of gold has changed hands in order for people to get this title as PvP title. I don't imagine ANet will change it now.

Pritst Of Death

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Texas

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26 Oct 2010 at 06:36 - 279

they banned people for botting in pvp, because the main reason was it upset the pvp'ers and made the game unfair. isn't this what were upset about. it's unfair and there not working for the title

Swingline

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Join Date: Sep 2010

Somewhere far away from you

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26 Oct 2010 at 07:33 - 280

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazilla

If anything, it's pretty obvious that this is a really polarizing topic. I just wish I could have been a fly on the wall at the meeting where they decided to have the z-title be a PvP title. It would be easier to deduce how it was allowed if I could see A-Net employees HoM Calculators

I really have a feeling that the topic is just as polarizing for them as it is for us. The Z-Title as PvP title would ensure that they all had a crack at 50/50 as I would imagine a big chunk of their staff detests PvP.

Most gws players detest raw pvp such as HA and GvG bc the super hardcore pvpers take it way too seriously(I cant stress the serious part enough). Any casual pvper cannot match them bc they make gws pvp into a job when instead it should be as anet intended it to be... fun. This is why I think they made the decision to make zaishen title into a pvp title and also for ppl to be able to buy it.