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Originally Posted by RedStar
Hmm you forgot codex/hero
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Make Zaishen Title Count for PvE Only
Boring and Pointless
jazilla
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
I think it simpler to consider the problem a naming thing.
In this case, "PvP title" refers to a title that can be acquired only in the PvP areas. That is, a "Battle isles title". Gamer is not considered PvP. Why? Because many games are not organized by the Zaishen. Even when once in the arena outpost you'll often see the Battle Isles map as the region map, you don't have to step at all in the Battle isles to enter that outpost. But there is no way to get to HA or TA without going to the battle isles (including your guild hall) first. Kurzick and Luxon are partially PvP too like the Zaishen title, but it's not added. Why? Because it happens in Factions, not in the Battle Isles. And the Zaishen title, even when you can get it by doing only PvE (much slower than by doing only PvP) or by purchasing the keys from others, you MUST be in the Battle isles to get it. There's no way around that. Rename "PvP title" to "Battle isles title" and done, all the inconsistencies are solved. Of course, that won't make those that want to remove the Zaishen happy, but just think: "Would they be complaining if the the title was name "Battle Isles title" in the first place?" Yes, they will, people always complain, but the complains would be the usual ones. |
I also think they could have added some new life to PvP though by making people, you know, actually PvP that wanted those three points for their HoM. But, I also understand, people that don't like how they are treated in PvP not wanting to do it.
dwchang
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Originally Posted by Boring and Pointless
Should have been:
Hero r6+ (1 point) Glad R3+ (1 point) Champ r3+ (1 point) All three (2 points) Not sure why this went to 8 pages. |
jazilla
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Originally Posted by dwchang
I like this. Although I agree with both this and the OP's suggestion, we all know it'll never happen. A.net would piss off A LOT of PvE'ers who paid their 1 million gold for their Zaishen title so most of us are probably just arguing on principle.
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Also, now that I think about it, there is no "in-game" incentive to earn a PvP statue other than the Zaishen statue anymore. You can easily get the Z-Title points you need doing PvP before you will EVER get an actual Arena Title statue. That to me is one of the problems with this whole thing.
RedStar
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| Commander title is no longer available & no one plays codex. |
And well maybe HA isn't empty, but instead of no one playing, it's more like no one wants to play with anyone else...
I don't wanna say RA is based on luck, but it kind of is... 10 sync teams in a row or 10 resign/leaver teams and all in between. But it's fun (except those times you find a whiny QQ "Im 1337 nd u Rnt").
Did very few GvG so won't speak on champion.
Don't really care if they change Zaishen to PvE (1 year + to get r3 glad is more than enough if you want 50/50), but asking all the PvP titles is kind of a pain (might as well get all PvE titles, rank max of course (lucky/unlucky/kurzick/luxon) and beat all elite zones. And while we're at it : get 11 tormented, 11 oppressor, and 11 destroyer weapons).
Point is : if they ask to play 75% of PvP for PvE rewards, might as well ask all PvE related things completed.
newbie_of_doom
This discussion is ridicilous. It boils down to a very simple statement: if you want the FULL reward, play the FULL game. The zaishen title is, for obvious reasons not to be considered a PvP title. The points for the PvP titles are just, since even gladiator is much harder to achieve than any PvE title (which doesn't mean that PvE titles are worthless).
Circular reasoning that everyone should be getting 50/50 is ridicilous. The title is supposed to be an achievement, one can argue over wether it is one of endurance of skill. But it's still an achievement. PvP is also a big part of GW, and if you want to get the maxium credit for the game, you will have to play the full game, which includes PvP.
Circular reasoning that everyone should be getting 50/50 is ridicilous. The title is supposed to be an achievement, one can argue over wether it is one of endurance of skill. But it's still an achievement. PvP is also a big part of GW, and if you want to get the maxium credit for the game, you will have to play the full game, which includes PvP.
drkn
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| The points for the PvP titles are just, since even gladiator is much harder to achieve than any PvE title (which doesn't mean that PvE titles are worthless). |
In terms of personal difficulty, Gladiator is fairly easy to get. You don't even need to find out a PUG or get into a specialised guild for that.
I wouldn't mind if they changed Gamer to be PvP and make Zaishen unlinked. But things are good the way they are, seriously.
Shriketalon
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Originally Posted by newbie_of_doom
This discussion is ridicilous. It boils down to a very simple statement: if you want the FULL reward, play the FULL game. The zaishen title is, for obvious reasons not to be considered a PvP title. The points for the PvP titles are just, since even gladiator is much harder to achieve than any PvE title (which doesn't mean that PvE titles are worthless).
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Regardless, there's a simple problem with your statement: completing the Hall doesn't mean completing the full game.
You can get 50/50 without getting Legendary Guardian. You can complete everything without ever having slain Shiro. You can gain the maximum title without having completed Prophecies, or never fighting a GvG match, or never drinking a single ale. The Hall does not, and should not represent completing every single tiny little facet of the game.
As a result, since PvP has less overall content than PvE, it is possible to complete enough of Ye Olde Guild Wars Experience via player versus environment gameplay to warrant a full hall.
deluxe
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Originally Posted by drkn
Harder? No. Just longer to get, mainly because of luck factor. In PvE, you either run good builds and know what to expect, what to take and how to cope with enemies, or just wipe. In RA you have to get a nice team, where no one lags out, where everyone knows what to do... or just sync, aka cheat. And still you have to grind up a lot.
In terms of personal difficulty, Gladiator is fairly easy to get. You don't even need to find out a PUG or get into a specialised guild for that. I wouldn't mind if they changed Gamer to be PvP and make Zaishen unlinked. But things are good the way they are, seriously. |
Most pve titles are pure grinds and a giant waste of time like cartography. (I'm doing that atm for 50/50
)I can't remember any of the PvE title/statues being hard, and i've got all vanquisher/guardian titles before pve-skills were even introduced.
PvP can be hard at times
drkn
As long as i can agree on other PvP titles, as they do require some sort of pre-thought teamplay, according builds, tactics, more experience and so, Gladiator is pure grind with nearly no difficulty on your own personal shoulders (fine, monking there gives you some responsibility for your team's survival, but if you get two dervs and a para that only attack the enemy warrior instead of healer... well, you get the point). Getting it is even slower than Cartography or maxing EotN titles. Unless you sync, but i wouldn't mention it in a serious discussion.
Just a simple comparison. How long does it take to get R3 Gladiator? It still bases much on luck - you either get a decent team or just waste time. On the other hand, you may get VQ+Carto titles at the same time, with no luck factor involved.
Just a simple comparison. How long does it take to get R3 Gladiator? It still bases much on luck - you either get a decent team or just waste time. On the other hand, you may get VQ+Carto titles at the same time, with no luck factor involved.
lemming
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Originally Posted by drkn
Gladiator is pure grind with nearly no difficulty on your own personal shoulders
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As for speed, I've gotten about 50 points in the past three days. I'm not sure how much total playtime, maybe ~5 hours?
Estic
If Luxon/Kurzick counts as PvP:
/signed.
/signed.
cantalus
anet should have made an emote for glad/codex/commander rank.
anet deciding that zaishen rank is a pvp title tells us all we need to know
anet deciding that zaishen rank is a pvp title tells us all we need to know
Fox Reeveheart
NOT SIGNED
No way, how the heck else am I supposed to get the pvp trophy? I been here FIVE years and I have 6 fame... SIX!
I seen the hall of heroes like 3 times ever, of course we never won. I've had the worst luck in pvp, never been able to beat that first battle most of the time.
or if lux/kurz counts as pvp... then i'll take that.
No way, how the heck else am I supposed to get the pvp trophy? I been here FIVE years and I have 6 fame... SIX!
I seen the hall of heroes like 3 times ever, of course we never won. I've had the worst luck in pvp, never been able to beat that first battle most of the time.
or if lux/kurz counts as pvp... then i'll take that.
Hyperventilate
Not signed. I have never purchased a key and every z-key I ever got was from Fort Aspenwood.
I earned it in PVP, it should stay PVP. It's my PVP statue, 'nuff said.
I earned it in PVP, it should stay PVP. It's my PVP statue, 'nuff said.
Del
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Originally Posted by Fox Reeveheart
NOT SIGNED
No way, how the heck else am I supposed to get the pvp trophy? I been here FIVE years and I have 6 fame... SIX! I seen the hall of heroes like 3 times ever, of course we never won. I've had the worst luck in pvp, never been able to beat that first battle most of the time. or if lux/kurz counts as pvp... then i'll take that. |
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Originally Posted by Hyperventilate
Not signed. I have never purchased a key and every z-key I ever got was from Fort Aspenwood.
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Lord Mip
/not signed. For one, the GW2 rewards are pretty much PvE rewards so the majority of the rewards being from PvE isn't really bad in my book. Secondly, it's quite easy to say for PvP'ers to PvE'ers to get a PvP title but the rank discrimination makes it incredibly difficult to even GET STARTED in PvP, let alone reach the title you need. There is no such discrimination in PvE and thus it's easier to go from PvP > PvE than PvP > PvE
RedStar
Oh how could I (and we, although maybe I didn't pay enough attention to all posts) forget the xunlai tournament house. Easiest way to get keys.
Don't forget champion. But then they'll have to make an emote for so many titles because of course PvPers aren't the only one to give a piece of their minds.
Well sorry but it's like saying "I've never been able to get passed the aatxe/greater darkness/priest of Menzies so I shouldn't be penalized because of that". HA isn't the only place you can get a PvP title, try gladiator. While it can sometime be painful, I find it easier than getting Hero r6 if PvP isn't your thing.
Also don't forget : 30/50 can be done without setting a foot in the battle isles. "I played almost every aspect of the game" a.k.a 50/50 shouldn't.
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| anet should have made an emote for glad/codex/commander rank. |
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No way, how the heck else am I supposed to get the pvp trophy? I been here FIVE years and I have 6 fame... SIX! I seen the hall of heroes like 3 times ever, of course we never won. I've had the worst luck in pvp, never been able to beat that first battle most of the time. |
Also don't forget : 30/50 can be done without setting a foot in the battle isles. "I played almost every aspect of the game" a.k.a 50/50 shouldn't.
dwchang
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Originally Posted by Lord Mip
There is no such discrimination in PvE and thus it's easier to go from PvP > PvE than PvP > PvE
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Originally Posted by RedStar
Well sorry but it's like saying "I've never been able to get passed the aatxe/greater darkness/priest of Menzies so I shouldn't be penalized because of that".
Also don't forget : 30/50 can be done without setting a foot in the battle isles. "I played almost every aspect of the game" a.k.a 50/50 shouldn't. |
As someone else already said (and I've also said), why do players have this sense of entitlement like A.net OWES THEM 50/50. The title should have been something special and hard to get and required players to master ALL ASPECTS of the game. Currently all the title means is "you're good at PvE/farming" which GWAMM already was. Frankly the title is redundant and gives PvE players another way to RANK DISCRIMINATE (that seems to be a popular phrase).
If a vanity title means that much to you and you want 50/50 then I feel you should have to EARN IT by having at least tried all aspects of the game and doing moderately successful. I still have yet to see a sufficient rebuttal to that argument.
I also don't understand this pigeonholing that PvE players do to any disagreement regarding PvP. That basically the only reason we're arguing is because we're jealous or something or want to feel "elite." For the record, I have PvE'ed (and PvP'ed) quite a bit these last five years and am working towards my 50/50 (no I don't feel entitled to free PvE trophies). This has nothing to do with that. Most of us are arguing about something we believe is unfair and inaccurate and to pigeonhole all of us as elitist is just...well it seems to be the popular thing PvE players like to do whenever a PvP player disagrees. Couldn't it be a lot simpler than that and that we're arguing because we simply disagree? Why does it have to be some PvP vs. PvE or Elitists vs. True Players type of thing? That's just ridiculous and sounds like something out of high school.
Unfortunately, as I said before, all of us know A.net won't change things. It'd understandably create a complain fest like we've never seen from folks who spent 1000k buying Z-keys. Obviously I disagree with that title being included, but it's still not fair for A.net to change things AFTER THE FACT. So again, I think many of us are just arguing this from a principle standpoint and not a "I'm jealous of PvE trophies" or "Those PvE'ers shouldn't have MY elite trophy!" standpoint as others seem to imply.
RedStar
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| There is no such discrimination in PvE and thus it's easier to go from PvP > PvE than PvP > PvE |
It may not be the same kind of discrimination but it still exists in elite areas
And to get into RA you don't have to search for a team. You are forced to party with 3 other people (good, bad, fun, whiny, you don't have a single choice).
And just like being in a good PvE guild helps getting titles and doing elite areas, being in a good PvP guild helps getting titles and getting into HA.
jazilla
Am I alone in thinking it's odd that if you actually PvP'ed for your zkeys that you would get the Zkey title before you would ever get your arena title? If you do the Zaishen quests which happen to be repeatable and offer large sums of Balthazar faction, there is no way NOT to get the Z-Title before you get the Arena title unless you didn't use the z-keys which would be odd. Even if they don't change the Z-Title to be PvE only like I think they should, it should be reworked so that the Arena Titles are actually worth achieving. Because at this point, there is no point in earning arena titles at all.
Pritst Of Death
/signed, i'm already mad enough about the fact the lowered the hero title for hom req, after spending 3 months trying 2 get my GF her r8 and achriving that and that afterwords the lower it to only needed r6 and than give pve'ers the addation of having zashian count. i mean this is anet babying pve'ers because there is more of them than pvp'ers and they knew 1 side was gonna complign and they decide because less pvp'ers 2 screw them over and baby pve'ers for there hom. i don't think anything will change becasue if anet does take away zashian as a pvp title and puts hero back there will just as many threads started about how unfair this is i mean there is already a thread complign about the 1 title pvp req
Hyperventilate
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Originally Posted by Del
How you got your zaishen title is of no consequence. You are one of the extremely vast minority that actually put effort into farming the title.
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I earned it through PVP. I don't give a crap how other people got theirs because in one way or another, the keys were earned in PVP. Maybe not from you, maybe not from the guy you bought them from, but someone did PVP for them.
If someone were to take my Zaishen rank away from me because it was too "PVE"ish, I'd demand an alternative that counted towards a PVP title given to me.
I don't care if someone bought their Zaishen title. I think it's petty to do so.
It's a PVP title. Get over it.
Lord Mip
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Originally Posted by RedStar
Oh come on, you are either lying or have a wonderful PvE guild.
It may not be the same kind of discrimination but it still exists in elite areas And to get into RA you don't have to search for a team. You are forced to party with 3 other people (good, bad, fun, whiny, you don't have a single choice). And just like being in a good PvE guild helps getting titles and doing elite areas, being in a good PvP guild helps getting titles and getting into HA. |
Another factor to take into account is internet quality. I used to do ranked GvG about four years ago, but my internet changed and now it's too laggy to be really competing in PvP. That means I'm pretty much unable to get any PvP title except for Codex, which is a grind and has absolutely NOTHING to do with PvP nowadays.
Pritst Of Death
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Originally Posted by Hyperventilate
How I got it apparently does matter.
I earned it through PVP. I don't give a crap how other people got theirs because in one way or another, the keys were earned in PVP. Maybe not from you, maybe not from the guy you bought them from, but someone did PVP for them. If someone were to take my Zaishen rank away from me because it was too "PVE"ish, I'd demand an alternative that counted towards a PVP title given to me. I don't care if someone bought their Zaishen title. I think it's petty to do so. It's a PVP title. Get over it. |
RedStar
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| /signed, i'm already mad enough about the fact the lowered the hero title for hom req, after spending 3 months trying 2 get my GF her r8 and achriving that and that afterwords the lower it to only needed r6 and than give pve'ers the addation of having zashian count. i mean this is anet babying pve'ers because there is more of them than pvp'ers and they knew 1 side was gonna complign and they decide because less pvp'ers 2 screw them over and baby pve'ers for there hom. i don't think anything will change becasue if anet does take away zashian as a pvp title and puts hero back there will just as many threads started about how unfair this is i mean there is already a thread complign about the 1 title pvp req |
And the wonderful "PvPers are QQers, no it's PvEers that QQ more" debate is something that should finally die...It's not like PvP or PvE is a way of life >.<
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| You can get all the statues being guildless. |
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| but someone did PVP for them. |
Pritst Of Death
i have 5 accounts i got over 200 keys every month from that. and i'm mad i waisted the time i was only ha'ing with her 2 get it in her hom no reason 2 go past that and i already had my tiger and retired from ha the sec she got r8, if the cap for hom was r6 i would've stopped 1k fame ago
chadS
Thanks XTH for helping everyone with their titles.
Del
You appear to have trouble reading, so i'l just reply with shit i already said until you understand what I'm saying.
Fixed.
Nope.
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Originally Posted by Hyperventilate
How I got it apparently does matter.
I earned it through PVP. I don't give a crap how other people got theirs because in one way or another, the keys were earned in PVP. Maybe not from you, maybe not from the guy you bought them from, but someone did PVP for them. |
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Originally Posted by Del
How you got your zaishen title is of no consequence. You are one of the extremely vast minority that actually put effort into farming the title.
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Originally Posted by Hyperventilate
If someone were to take my Zaishen rank away from me because it was too "PVE"ish, I'd demand an alternative that counted towards a PVP title given to me.
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Originally Posted by Del
seriously, get over that bullshit feeling of self-entitlement.
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Originally Posted by Hyperventilate
I don't care if just about everyone bought their Zaishen title. I think just because i actually worked on it, that the title should be considered pvp
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Originally Posted by Hyperventilate
It's a PVP title. Get over it.
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Tolmos
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Originally Posted by Del
but seriously, get over that bullshit feeling of self-entitlement.
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Mireles
@ Tolmos.... nice dood..... don't understand what the QQing is about... it just seems to me people want others to be without a PvP title on HoM which can be argued as being elitist...
why?
it does not effect you any what other people have... just play your game and be happy that you accomplished titles other haven't.
why?
it does not effect you any what other people have... just play your game and be happy that you accomplished titles other haven't.
Del
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Originally Posted by Tolmos
Anyone who is upset by the concept of having a title they worked for made worthless simply because you and a few other choice people decide it wasn't "hardcore" enough is suffering from a sense of self-entitlement?
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Essence Snow
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Originally Posted by Del
You shouldn't have a pvp trophy. You obviously aren't capable of pvping at even an HA acceptable level, and HA is small time. I don't know why you, and others, feel this self-entitlement when it comes to the pvp statue. Anet doesn't owe you a statue that you don't want to earn, so actually pvp if you want it so badly. Not as if it matters because this thread is going to be another one of those things anet couldn't give two shits for, but seriously, get over that bullshit feeling of self-entitlement.
How you got your zaishen title is of no consequence. You are one of the extremely vast minority that actually put effort into farming the title. |
Pritst Of Death
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Originally Posted by Mireles
@ Tolmos.... nice dood..... don't understand what the QQing is about... it just seems to me people want others to be without a PvP title on HoM which can be argued as being elitist...
why? it does not effect you any what other people have... just play your game and be happy that you accomplished titles other haven't. |
chris12xu
people who got gwamm are pissed off too since you dont need gwamm to get the 50/50 but you dont see them qqing all over the forum being whiny little girls stop being such a child and deal with it your like a kid throwing a temper tantrum in a store.
jazilla
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Originally Posted by Mireles
@ Tolmos.... nice dood..... don't understand what the QQing is about... it just seems to me people want others to be without a PvP title on HoM which can be argued as being elitist...
why? it does not effect you any what other people have... just play your game and be happy that you accomplished titles other haven't. |
I am gonna go out on a limb here Mireles and say that you have the z-key title and are 50/50 but don't have an actual PvP statue in your hall except for the Zaishen one. Am I right? Which is fine, because that is the way ANET wants it. My whole suggestion is that they up the number of zkeys required to get the zkey statue, or make it a PvE only statue. That would make the actual "Arena" statues worth something, which they aren't now because you get the zkey statue before any of those.
You are totally entitled to your opinion on all of this but if you haven't earned Glad or Hero or Champ, then you don't understand how a lot of us who have honestly played PvP feel about this.
Mireles
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Originally Posted by jazilla
while i think where he was coming from is off base, i would like to tell you where i am coming from. Here is the issue: if you pvp'ed to get a PvP statue like RA/Champ/Hero etc. you will automatically get your zkey statue BEFORE getting the actual PvP statue for the format you were doing. This happens because of the amount of Balthazar faction you earn for z-quests that are repeatable in PvP. Shouldn't you get the statue for your fave format before the z-chest statue? See the disconnect?
I am gonna go out on a limb here Mireles and say that you have the z-key title and are 50/50 but don't have an actual PvP statue in your hall except for the Zaishen one. Am I right? Which is fine, because that is the way ANET wants it. My whole suggestion is that they up the number of zkeys required to get the zkey statue, or make it a PvE only statue. That would make the actual "Arena" statues worth something, which they aren't now because you get the zkey statue before any of those. You are totally entitled to your opinion on all of this but if you haven't earned Glad or Hero or Champ, then you don't understand how a lot of us who have honestly played PvP feel about this. |
To want to take away a reward thou because you feel it is to simple is arguably elitist... maybe an increase of statue requirement is warranted to make the difficulty more close to that of other pvp accomplishments. But thats just me because i can do 200 keys standing on my head...and also keep in mind when the statue limit was decided keys were worth some where around 7k/ea. Ive never seen anet increase a requirement. To remove it would cut off alot of players from the 3 point pvp accomplishment, which is what i doubt anet had in mind.
Thank you for being the most rational and polite person to ever disagree with me on these forums...
feel free to check my hom
-Mireles Lore
edit: aww who took away the doubleface palm pic that was funny stuff...
The Drunkard
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Originally Posted by Pritst Of Death
thats the whole point now the titles we worked hard 2 get and ahieive have made eaiser 2 get and work we did for our hom in pvp can now be acheived with 150e
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OT: The fact that some guru members still haven't figured out that Anet has been catering to the casual player for the past three years kinda depresses me. Anet will NEVER remove a pve reward (in this case it's for gw2) for the sake of someone's prestige or the preconceived notion of "fairness". It just won't happen.
/notsigned
helloeveryone
Maybe Anet can try to make Zaishen a PVE title and remove the PVP title requirement for HOM? just a suggestion since PVPers don't like "PVP title" to be achieved by "PVE" means and PVPers don't care about GW2 pve rewards.
jazilla
@Mireles: You totally understand then. I find it a difficult issue because I see where others are coming from as well on this thing. Both sides have valid points. Getting rid of the PvP requirement for the HoM actually may be the best way to do it at this point. There is another thread about that on the forums here and that seems reasonable to me. Thanks for the HoM Calculator heads up. You can check mine out as well. I am "Iason Evan". I recognize your name from selling things in LA and Kamadan. Cheers bro.