HA in Crisis

what u meant was that we should make friend in this game and play with them as a team instead and progress together and earn fame together etc?

No, most casual players like me did not purchase this game with making friend in a virtual world in mind.....

we are just casual players that double-click on GW icon and enjoy the fight in this game, after an hour , we close the game.

More incentives need to be applied to HA.

What would get you more players in the format? keys + gold (pve ppl love this).

Implement zkeys for every win. You will get hoards of pvers farming HA instead of sorrows furnance.

This is easy to impliment overnight.

Who cares if the zkey price devaluates?

Why are some people content in upping the rewards for PvP? All this does is attact the type of player that just in it for the rewards and +1'ing a title (In HA its the shiney emote) and has little to no intrest in the format or sticking around.

Complete change as soon as RA got the glad title it quickly became HA lite and with it came the worst types of players that infest HA with the attitudes to match.

Apparently Tetris is the more suitable game option for you, and not Guild Wars. You seem the more arcade-oriented, or fast-n-easy fun gamer that likes everything fast and easy.

The way I see it, is the only way for Anet to fix HA, is to embrace the meta game. And make Pugging as painless as possible

This basically means party search functionality needs to allow for team specification, automatically loading skillbars/equipment templates upon joining (even if players are not of the correct profession or have the unlocks, as long as they are on a PvP character), possibly a que so that upon losing with a meta team, you get 2 leavers on your team, when you load back into HA you grab anyone interested in that particular build from a que of players. You should be allowed to specify Rank requirements here as well, or send invites to players similarly as guild guest invites.

If the Party search could extend into the game more, as in any outpost, or in your guild/alliance roster, possibly in PvE environments, so players could essentially do other things and decide to switch gears and play PvP instead. This would allow players to enter the que and be transported when needed (upon confirmation)

Remove Zaishen

Upon losing a match in HA, if nobody in your team leaves, you move back one map rather than shoved back into the outpost. If someone does leave, you should be able to grab from a que that meets your requirements.

Award fame for the map played, not consecutive wins (HoH win is worth 24 fame even if you skip there from UW, etc..)

Upon pressing Enter Mission, you get paired up with whatever team/map needs an opponent, and upon losing you move back one map, win you move to the next awaiting team. This could mean you load directly into HoH.

Basically make it easier to pug, rewards based on difficulty (map/how deep in the rotation you win, likelyhood of facing better teams)

So easier to pug as well as increase time spent playing vs time spent forming, zoning, waiting for opponents, etc.

During WWI, the German government mass produced their currency to pay off their war debt, as a result the value of german currency was worth less than a sheet of toilet paper that you use to wipe your ass with.

Think carefully about this.

You worried about zkey inflation? I'm not denying it might lead to some suicides here and there, but most people won't starve as result from zkey inflation.

noted. you are right. maybe casual gamer who couldn't afford to long hours playing game shouldn't buy Guildwars. i chose guildwars over wow because i thought that i wouldn't have spend long hours forcing myself to play.

i guess this game just wasn't designed for casual gamer. i'll give guildwars2 a miss and stick to other game.

i thought GVG was designed for hardcore players so i never tried it. never knew that HA was designed for hardcore players as well. 5 years ago everyone can play in HA, its a fun and crowded place , sigh....

Yes , but it still doesn't fix the dead hour problem. In fact , it rewards the usual team farming those dead hours , since they would be able to hold easily for 6-7 hours ( even by using sec accs , it would still be very easy).People would come and play for a few days , and after they kept losing hall map they would just give up.

As i said before , there are many good suggestions , but these are only good for 3 district hours, and those are already good in my opinion. Only thing is to find a way to make HA , or any PvP arena easy and fast to play at ANY hour .

zkeys are a pve commodity and serves little purpose in pvp. I agree, the value will depreciate but it will be still more worthwhile for pvers to do HA than farm sorrows furnance even if the value falls to 1k/key.

We need more people in HA. PVE has 95% of the population. If HA needs to feel like 2005 December, u need a way of enticing these 95% into HA.

Even if Anet impliments this for a month. You will find a huge upsurge in the number of Ha'ers. People who play for a consitant period of time can build up a flist and become more active pvpers.

TBH, rank-discrimination. Even recently with the current stream of NOPs inside matches and lack of players inside the outpost, I visited HA ID1, and take a wild guess as to what I read in local chat?

R#/#+++ LFG!

Verily, I say unto you: blame yourselves.

And I don't mean this as a flame of any sort, either. I'm being realistic, here.

Until this behavior is utterly discouraged to the utmost, HA will continue in Crisis. Hell, PvP and even PvE [to an extent; see: UW Stones], is in Crisis Mode right now, and I don't believe anything can be done about this. The only possible solution in mind is for GW2 to just hurry up and get here already because we're all fed up with the content and status of GW1, especially PvP in general!

I understand your point but let's be realistic , you seriously think a team with beginner monks and warrior will beat usual morning farmers holding ?If people spam for Rx+ it's because they want to win. They KNOW that it's not worth waiting 30mn for a hall fight since they KNOW they will lose it . However , i agree with you that's it's ridiculous to spam for r11+ for hours when there is noone .

Team-Work game is not really nice if you consider dc/afk + rank discrimination + inactivity + crap teammates ( Ab/JQ/Ra/FA)+ players mentality+ unfair situations , and i hope we will finally have a format such as HB soon. I got enough of losing because monk keeps dcing .

Even if rank never existed blacklisting people is just like rank discrimination. The given fact is the more noobs you add to your team, the more chance you have of losing.

The only people that pug are the people that don't have any friends playing.

It works both ways.

If someone has been stopped by "discrimination" then they have a shitty attitude and aren't willing to put forth any effort. It doesn't matter if HA groups were "nice" and tried to hold their hand, they would quit fast.

Those that are doing the "discriminating" are shitty players that no one in the real PVP community would play with; that's why they are pugging.

What really killed HA were "updates". Each of these sent away large numbers of players.

-6v6 HA

-8v8 HA with relic and cap points

-First round of elite buffs

-Second round of elite buffs

-Teaseway with the elite buffs

-Assassin buffs

"rank discrimination" hardly matters when the entire regular population leaves because the game mode becomes unfun to play.

Sirius Bsns, why are you constantly bringing up bs that has been debunked ages ago? I'm getting the idea you're just trolling.

He is only part trolling, its a valid argument TBH

RA and AB to a lesser extent dont really care who joins, thus you get matches quickly and its a "live" arena. The problem is HA requires more skill/coordination synergy to be successful and that is why people form organized teams.

They could make HA more alive like RA/AB by making the format more random sure, but the fun of HA is the higher skill/reward that it offers.

So while it is not necessarily the best solution to eliminate rank discrimination, it WOULD in fact increase activity, but it would not be the same format.


Im still saying embrace the meta, you could even reward guilds for being the best of each meta, best Rspike, best Bspike, best IWAY, those were the best times of HA when these titles were assigned to guilds by the community, based on consistent success by the guilds that ran these builds the best. It actually meant something to the community to see these teams winning halls, love them or hate them, that was what made HA awesome and active

Lets consider human nature for a second, specifically focusing on a MMORG like GWs.
Facts:
- People do things in the game
- Usually for a reason, often for S***s and Giggles
- These reasons include:
- FUN
- Profit
- Prestige
- A personnel sense of achievement
- Because its easy -> and a good way to sped time (ties in w/ profit)

Ideally most 'things' to do in a game cover most of these with different weighting on each.

Furthermore it is not possible to look at any one game activity in isolation, it is important to consider what alternatives there are and how they compare on each of the reasons as stated above.

CURRENTLY:
If your pro PvPer c5, r11, g6 HA is.....:
- Boring
- Dull
(these cos of the stagnant meta of OPed builds)
- Profitable
- Delivers prestige slowly (ranking up takes a while)
- Not as fun as it used to be
HOWEVER, as the rest of PvE is dull its one of 2 last bastions of PvP in this game

If your an average PvPer r8 or so:
- Fun cos u run the lame stuff
- Profitable esp. on quest days comparable to PvE farming
- good prestige cos u rank up pretty fast
- Good sense of achievement

If your new to PvP:
- Dull -> cant get groups
- Boring cos ya lose when you make unranked
- Not profitable not even close to PvE
- No prestige cos even if u reach r3 you wont get into teams
- Difficult cos tbh even if ur the BEST SoS rt in the game, PvP is a whole new kettle of fish -> so you will lose a lot to start with

NOW......... How to fix?!?!?!?!?!??!?!

a) maybe we can't, this game is slowly coming to an end, people are wrapping up their HoM, and doing fun stuff and thats about it

b) maybe im being pessimistic maybe it can be fixed..... so....

1) what have we had suggested:

A) Increase reward: Yes that would give people a chance to gain more from it and give people a new incentive... however as Fierce pointed out.... inflation beat the Germans.

Supply is balanced carefully with demand....

Z key demand atm is HIGH cos of HoM requiring Z3 for most people
Z key supply at the moment is AVERAGE

therefore prices remain high at 5k ish

IF we were to increase Z key and B faction reward Z key supply would sky rocket and eventually demand will fall = prices drop and then the extra rewards are worthless so people will lose intrest in HA

Conclusion: Good shortterm, bad longterm

B) RANK DISCRIMATION:
- it a fact of LIFE
- good players only wanna play with good players
- the only measure for that is FRIENDS LIST and RANK
- What most of you realise most GOOD teams are formed from FRIENDS NOT by spamming for r11+ in chat
- You ever seen barty spamming in chat?
- DISCRINATION (on rank or friends list) HAS NEVER BEEN THE PROBLEM WITH HA... IT IS A FACT OF HA. Let me explain why it SHOUDLN'T be a problem and then why it is....

If rank followed a Normal distribution amongst HAers then the majority of teams would be mediocre, some would be very good and some would be less good. This is an ideal situation because all the mediocre teams will get a decent number of matches against similarly skilled players before facing a higher skilled team. As you progress through the maps the odds of fighting a more skilled team increase.
CURRENTLY there is a shortage of low and mid ranked teams. Therefore when these teams enter they face much higher ranked teams and therefore lose, and quit HAing because of this.

IN ORDER to fix this we need a influx of low and mid skilled players to redistribute the average skill of HA teams allowing everyone a greater chance to win, thus encouraging people to continue with HA.

This brings me on to my solution....

C) Teaching guilds:
I would, but I can't cos of exams.... we need large teaching guilds to take any players of any rank who are willing to learn, kicking any who are too arrogant to learn, and teaching how to win at HA.
- This will create the lower ranked player base to create the ideal skill distribution of teams in HA

OH to supplement this in the short term adding NEW rewards to HA would help get the thing up and running...
e.g.
- double faction perma
- double key drops from chest
- and my favourite - HoH chest exclusive Weapon sets.... Ghostly Axe, Scythe, Sword (eternal blade), Ghostly Long and short bows, Ghostly wand and focus items.... only avaliable from HoH chest
- This wont kill any markets, will create new money sink = GOOD for economy and will increase HA population

gg pz

^

Pretty much my thoughts on the subject. It feels like people are whining because their friends from the golden age of Guild Wars (2 years ago) left but they've stuck around.

"I want someone to play with."
You've got three options.
- Either bring back the old players (Which it won't happen, GW is dying fast, people are bored to death with what's left over. Those that ARE left over are the ones complaining about it being desolate.)
- Bring in new players (It could happen, but like other's have said, rank discrimination is a turn off for newbies.)
- Bring in PvE'ers by introducing new rewards (People don't want this to happen because they don't want ZKeys to drop in price + they don't want PvE'ers just playing for rewards.)

Just my take.

You're absolutely right. As a matter of fact, pretty much all of us still posting here on Guru are the ones that remain and stuck around, the ones left over and complaining. And many of them that're stuck playing HA still can't seem to learn to do away with the rank-discrimination. That's why many of them that have this problem will more than likely just quit the game rather than break down and play with the new comers. True story.

Everyone agrees the main issue for PvP is the lack of players. Now...where would players come from to solve this problem?

Old players returning?...chances are slim to none...
Brand new players?..not enough to solve the problem...
PvE?...players are there...just issue of crossover...

Imo the last option is unfortunately, the only option. I hear time and time again.."Join a PvP guild"...lets face it, many players are established in guilds and won't leave them to PvP...so this isn't really a viable option. "Talk you way into a group"...this also has an issue since there is really no place to find a group to "talk your way" into. "Groups that lf r8+ only are the bad groups and you don't want to join those anyhow"....well there simply aren't any other pug options. And that leads me to...what I'm sure I'll get flamed for.....The PvP'ers that want a new influx of players, to revitalize the format, need to start pugging. They need to be there to be the "other option". I know it sounds great to have a new population influx and stay with your established team, but lets face it, that's not helping the issue. Older teams will only stomp new teams leading to the new teams to give up/leave the format. (same issue no player base)

Remember back when you just started playing GW? You joined PuGs....then after time and from meeting ppl via PuGs you found your way into guilds/friendlists/etc...and you got better. The cross over PvE population...that is needed...needs to be able to PuG PvP to learn PvP. Make PvP PuGs more amicable and the population will follow.

Think the best solution has two parts:

Improve Accessibility:
Some ideas have already been mentioned: Add Team Templates where people can join up and fill a role. If they don't have the skills unlocked, that's okay, as long as they are following the template. Better training for all gametypes, full tutorials, AI battles, and a checklist reward (like a HoM statue) for passing the test. Beyond giving people the knowledge to win, do everything you can to reduce group forming time, down time between matches, and frustration all around. Random should not be an option; rather, someone wanting to play whatever should be able to find a place in a Team Template and run with it. Frequent skill changes, buffs to anti-spike skills (Complicate, Panic, etc...) and better class design (ie: changing up how Paragons work to prevent Zergway) would also help remove frustration. If there are more bodies playing, then half of those new players have a good chance of beating the other half. Some of those successes will permanently add new blood, which is good.

Improve Rewards:
I dislike the idea of free Z-keys every win, not because of devaluation, but because of the possibility of red-resign. Z-keys can be for every win past a certain point, and I'd be fine with that. Other rewards would be PvP-exclusive weapons, minis, consumables, summoning stones, hell... even armor and dyes. What if a PvE skill improved in strength with a little progression in PvP titles? Have a little fun with it. Make "held halls" one HoM achievement with some extra rewards on top. How about this one: a Rare Scroll that guarantees unique weapon drops for one player in your party for the next boss.

Unfortunately, there likely is not enough man power on the live team or enough interest to implement these changes. HA could have been a lot different if these were added, say, instead of the 6v6 change, but what's done is done. I can live without it.

I like exclusive weapons idea.

is that possible?
any plans or idea to go about making that a reality?

I think they just need to tone down the importance of consecutive wins... Make Halls of Heroes chest win-able once then start from the bottom again... and make /resign not work or add dishonor to resigned teams to prevent constant red resign...

The problem is that people are unwilling to play unless they will win consecutively because there is no or little reward otherwise.. So that means people won't gather unless they know they can win and only accept players that they have the best chance of winning with consecutively... and people that constantly lose against the refined teams won't play because there is no gain in it for them, and the streaking teams wins are worth more than trying again and over coming that team.

Long story short, all the importance of playing HA is based on winning consecutively which make people rather look for a "elite" players for hours on end or not even playing at all, instead of going with a pug that is just going to get fame farmed with little or no points gained.

If the same amount of fame was rewarded for each win, losing wouldn't be such a set back, The pay off for rank discrimination would be less because you can just squeeze out a few wins with a not so perfect team instead of waiting hours for a perfect one.

May not be the ultimate solution but I feel this would help.

OK, here are some ideas I came up, which should make HA better place to play.

We definitely need more people. Most players we can grab from PvE. So what should we do in order to make HA friendly for them?

Although, it seems extremally hard to solve, everything is about rewards. Rank is one thing, but all we know it can take ages for PvEr to achive r9. But now I want to concentrate about something different - Hero Tokens (temporary name). For each win in HA, on any map, players would be awarded with these items (always one per win), which would be customized and untradeable. For a certain number of these tokens, player could unlock many different things at designed trader. Let's say 5 tokens for zkey, 10 for 1st year mini, 15 for hero armor, 200 for Voltaic Spear, 500 for Crystalline Sword. You got the idea. I list typical PvE stuff, releated to HoM, because I think it would be a great way to combine both PvE and PvP in some sense.

Improve mechanic.

Award fame for the map played, not consecutive wins. (Someone already suggested this in thread, so I just repeat what he said) In this manner:
UW - 1 fame
Fetid - 2 fame
Burial - 3 fame
Unholy Temples - 4 fame
Forgotten Shrines - 6 fame
Golden Gates - 8 fame
Courtyard - 12 fame
Antechamber - 16 fame
Hall of Heroes - 20 fame

However, in HoH for each consecutive win you get more fame, so:
1 hold - 24 fame
2 holds - 28 fame
3 holds - 32 fame
4 holds - 36 fame
5+ holds - 40 fame

Next thing - when you lose you don't have to start again, but instead you play on a previous map. You can lose maximum 2 times and after this you will be defeated and send back to the outpost. You can't continue if you lose in UW or HoH. I think it's pretty clear and also was suggested in the past. With map-fame-system something like that would be a great solution.

To prevent HoH farming, especially in dead hours make 1vs1 fair, which means no blue team. Holding team would be red.

If someone DC'ed/have to go, that player is changed with current henchman, not a zaishen one. Would be great to see something like that: If rit DC'ed, you get Nuno, if infuse mom error'd, you get Divinus Tutela and so on.

Add one extra drop from HoH-chest and maybe improve rates for some rare items. I won halls so many times and never got anything valuable...

Monthy skill balances are really needed. Not because to nerf broken builds (like BBway atm), but also to change the metagame, which is very important.

New map would be cool.

This would all depend on the current HA population, those that want more activity in HA. It would be a player fix not an Anet fix. If they (the current HA players) want more ppl in the format...they need to make PuGing HA more amicable. So inturn as much as it might pain them...they need to start PuGing. No I'm not talking about the few that lf r9+...I'm talking about the other HA players....the ones that want life back in HA. There simply has to be a compromise. If they are unwilling to compromise there is no point bothering with any revitalization effort.

ex) exp team of 8 (those that want life back into HA) splits in 4 two person teams and pugs...taking anyone on their team.

They (even though exp and accustomed to winning) will need to compromise and accept a few losses with pugs...in an attempt to breathe life back into HA. So all of the original team of 8 won't win, but 2 of the 8 might....and there are 24 more players in HA that otherwise wouldn't. Mutiply this and the population grows exponentially.

So basically the experienced that want HA more populated need to play with the inexperienced. They just need to compromise some wins for more activity.

Would defeat the whole purpose of eliminating consecutive wins...

and stacking more rewards that people can get in PvE or Buy from seasoned HA-ers not going to bring more people in.

Its a reward for the good/best teams, the reward for the rest is that instead of winning 1 fame and out, if you win UW and skip to courtyard and win there, you get the fame award for that map, if you lose, you move back a map where again that map has a higher reward than 1.

It would take the focus off consecutives to a degree, while still keeping incentive there for players that want to go in with the best. This solution is a great middle ground and easy to implement, meaning it is one of the more likely methods to ATTEMPT to breath a bit more life into the format, its not going to make much difference if teams dont form up though.

Fact is as you stated, consecutive wins are why the largest portion of the remaining HAers play, and in dead hours, you dont get consecutives even if you are the best team in, you get 1 win.

So as a result teams that only are playing for the consecutive wins, have also stopped playing, along with the low/mid ranked teams and pugs are almost out of the question.

The current state of Ha, most of the teams are high ranked or randomways. Dose the unranked team have a chance? When i first joined a HA team, I joined a random team with monks without secondary that took me all the way to courtyard. Can the new pve team experience such a game? No.

Solution.

You want a mass migration of pvers into PVP.

How?

Incentivse HA. Give them 1k per win. 2k for the 2nd win, in alignment with fame.

drawback would be inflation. A counter soultion would be to limit this incentive to 3 months. This is enough time for pvers to experience pvp and build a flist, build a guild, generally getting incorporated into PVP.

From there on, its a matter of time, before the skill comes out in them and they get poached by higher ranked teams.

I suggest you play HA before commenting on it.

6v6 format with suitable objectives/maps. /signed

just an idea to get new players into PvP

how about this

1. Unranked player will get a higher amount of fame per win starting from UW map and multipy as they get consec wins.

2. Ranked 4+ player will get fame after 1 consec wins

3. Ranked 7+ player will only get fame after 2 consec wins

4. R11+ will only get fame point if they win/hold halls

Maybe this is logical? if unranked player can beat R6+ players, they really do deserve a higher amount of fame point compared to R6+ players beating them?

ANd also, no reason to give fame points to R4+ players if all they do is win/lose the first pvp round and resign for farming (reminds me of Iway).
R11+, this group of player should be competing in hall of h and thus truely deserving the title of "Eminent Hero"
How can you be Eminent for not competing in hall of h and win.

Definition of Eminent= standing above others in quality or position.

I hope this change will encourage new player to come to HA due to higher fame awarded for this group and at the same time making the Hero title more prestigious.

just my 2 cents

Terrible idea : considering inactivity , r7+ teams wouldn't win anything + consider useless full runs

1. Considered the inactivity that is why i suggested higher rewards for unranked and more deserving reward proportional to the pvper title

2. How could R7+ people deserve any fame for simply winning the first two rounds?R7 is suppose to be "Subjugating Hero" and should deserve fame after two con sec wins? Maybe you are right that the runs could be wasted but if you are already R7 shouldn't you be doing more than just winning first two rounds?

Subjugating Hero
Defination: Subjugating means forcing others to submit or subdue

All the ideas from 144-154: I dont want you to destroy HA just because you want that bambi, Thank you.

Rewarding Zkeys for everywin, zkeys will eventually be worth less than 1k which will mean its not worth farming for the begginners. I rather make every monster in UW drop ectos at 100% rate than for this shit to happen. Why? I rather kill pve than pvp. Oh wait you guys just want to destroy pvp, get what you want and go back to pve.

Rewarding fame based on map, wow seriously?! so many ppl skip to HoH from UW, rewarding 24fame for that is just plain stupid. If everyone and their grandma has a tiger, there will be no point in getting it. A tiger will be the equivalent of a rank1 zrank if you were to implement it. Does any1 care about a zrank1??

And to the person suggesting making it harder for higher ranked players to get fame, you do realize that the higher ranked a person is, the more fame they need to reach to the next title correct? I'm just gonna leave it at this and hope u can figure out why your idea is bad.


TL:dR: 144-154 are posted by PVErs who are only self interested. All they want is farming zkeys and getting a shiny emote and doesnt care for the well being of HA.

THIS is the type of arrogance that makes PvP miserable.

Hate to break it to you, but PvP and PvE are both worthless if you want to get technical. Don't act like PvP is some sort of sacred institution that should only be played by worthy hardcore PvP'ers that base their gaming lives on gaining the same rewards that you uphold to be the most 1337 out there for the same sacred reasons that you do. Then I see people turning around and whining about not having anyone to play with because their old buddies left and no one else plays for the reasons they play. Several people have said it before: if you want more people to play with, those people can come from three places and three places only.

Old Players - Your friends aren't coming back. Changing minuscule game mechanics isn't going to make the game more interesting. If you're sitting there thinking to yourself "Gah, it'd be great if the game was the way it was 2 years ago..." you're probably stuck believing that this can happen. Hitting your head against a brick wall will get you no further than the brick wall.

New Players - Get rid of rank discrimination and play with new players. Zero problems with this, but people refuse to play with newbies because they don't want to take the time to teach.

PvE'ers - Yes, most of them will probably only play if there's something in it for them that they want. They have different goals for the game than you do. Why do you care? You'll have people to play with that aren't newbies to the game, and they get what they want. Win-Win. If you consider them not good enough to play with you, then maybe your issue needs more than a game-fix.

Now pick which place you want your future playmates to come from.

Or here's an idea: Draw straws to pick four or five unlucky players that will teach newbies with low ranks so the rest of you can have your way without any hassle!

No one is out to "destroy HA" for PvE gains. It's just silly to watch people running in circles after their tails when the answer is obviously right there in front of them, they just won't accept that they have to let go of the populated game that they used to play.

PvP is suffering the same fate that PvE is right now (In other words, the entire game). Lack of players. It's pretty hard to get a group for anything these days. Stay with what friends you have left, or make new ones. There's no other fix for this other than changing how people think, and that's something that no one can do.

My main advice: Play something else if it really bothers you that much.

/leavethread

you and your species, Sir, are the main reason why HA is dead. you might not get what i mean but most here knows why.

If any pver just want a useless emote of any kind of animal, they can just buy it.

All the poster here is thinking of ways to make HA more friendly to players especially those that came late into the game. They are thinking of possibilities and ways to make it better. Ideas may or may not be good, but most are hoping to see HA populated again. That is the purpose of this thread.
I do not see any constructive idea coming out from you other than QQ about not being able to get more fame so your dog emote can become a giant cat, so you are probably the last person to care about the well being of HA.

Srsly, you clearly missed the point of his post. He wasn't saying that PvEers were actively trying to destory PvP. And at no point did he say it was a sacred institution. ALL he said was the previous 20 or ideas look good on the surface but have problems long term. This comes from people proposing ideas that would benefit them and not really considering the long term LASTING complication of these changes.

Every point he made was valid, my I suggest that you /leavethread if you do not have the time to read and understand the complex points made in a post such as his.

Lets look at extremes of some of the examples given and hence why they would create a problem. Effectively if u make a change you can see the longterm effects of the change by looking what would happen if u made the same change x100

A) Increase Z keys per win: If u got 100 Z keys/ win
1) Z keys would be worthless,
2) entire gold item and tonic market would be destroyed
- hence, if u increase the z keys /win, u kill the market

B) Increase the fame for noobies: Instantly after your first win u get r3..... and then after that u get ranks slower and slower....
1) r3 becomes worthless
2) only groups forming are r4+ and we are back to the same point we are at with rank discrimation
- hence, it might provide a short term fix to the rank problem but would only further create the same rank discrimination just shifted to higher ranks

and so on and so forth with the other ideas.

So please, WHEN U POST AN IDEA THINK IT THROUGH FOR 6 MONTHS FROM NOW!!!! WHAT WILL HAVE HAPPENED? will it destroy a market, will it destroy a title track? will it long term make something worthless

The best ideas are ones such as this!

Non tradable tokens won in proportion to the amount of fame u win!
.
These tokens are tradable at weapon smith for a new set of exclusive weapons e.g. eternal axe, eternal scythe, eternal long bow, eternal wand and focus items. e.g. 250 tokens / item etc.....

This would have almost no effect on the economy except creating another money sink (good thing)

And wouldnt destroy HA titlte

AND WOULD create an influx of PvEers wanting cool new items

gg

NOW Mr. Spooki, hopefully that will demonstrate a GOOD suggestion for ya and maybe begin to shed some light on what fierce was talking about. Don't just get angry cos hes higher ranked than you!

Oh ps. Good High ranked (and proper high ranked) don't have trouble finding players, we have guilds and friends lists of other playas! What u see forming in ID 1 is the fame farmers who dont get onto friends lists cos they aint that good!

This applies to Mr. Helloeveryone as well! What YOU also missed was that he was pointing out FLAWS in other peoples suggestions. This is so that they can adapt them and come up with other suggestions!

Can PvEers stop getting angry at PvPers?

So basically you want to keep HA unavailable as it's possible. And you mistake our thinking - we aren't PvErs, we try to think like PvErs (ok, ley's say I'm not and i only speak for myself atm), which is a significant difference. In order to make this format alive again we essentialy need a wave of new players and where we can find them is the PvE.

I agree with you that so much reward can be broken and all these ideas like zkey/1k per win are dumb. Instead of it we need to implement something more complex, for example my hero token idea. Good players would be able to farm let's say 30-40 tokens per day, while new or not-so-good gamers maximum 10. It's quite ballanced I think and 5 tokens per key is not going to destroy the entire economy.

Also I lost my interest in getting emotes months ago. I don't play for rank, I play for fun and definitelly want to see HA in better condition and much more alive. That's the point.

No, having tokens for z keys is pointless.... srsly why develop a whole new thing just to get more z keys.

Easier way, double the faction per win.

Basically ur suggestion is... increase the amount of z keys u get for HA by a small amount. As i said, thats easily done by increasing faction gain. HOWEVER it is still susceptible to supply/demand of z keys and eventually price will drop and so will the interest in HA.

Look at my idea, token per fame you win. New set of items, 250 tokens/item GG! wont kill the z key economy and it will increase the HA population. I reckon create a whole line of eternal weapons but meh, anything cool will do!

Pz