Update - 2/17

Lufina

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2011

Undines of Aria Company

D/W

Well, here's the bar I was running yesterday. I tried VQing several areas and doing some HM missions towards Legendary Guardian. My attribute points are split between Scythe/Earth/Mysticism. I'm using Furious and Enchanting mods on my boomstick. 92 Armor/550 Health/25 Energy.

Vow of Strength
Sand Shards
Aura of Thorns or Staggering Force (I tested one for the low energy and the other for the quicker recharge)
Pious Assault
Reap Impurities
Whirlwind Attack
Save Yourselves
Heart of Fury

I really don't know what to think. I'm amazed at the synergy of the dervish's newfound powers of destroying entire groups, but I have a sinking feeling a nerf bat will be coming soon. I was Leeroying everything to gain all agro of everything, and under the scythe, my computer blue-screened, except it was filled with yellow numbers. And because of some mesmer skill support backing me up, everything under the scythe seemed to just be standing there waiting to be cut.

I flashed Vow of Strength and Sand Shards upon refresh which I let run their course without teardown, which I covered with Aura of Thorns or Staggering Force (I ran one or the other my my bar) solely for tear-down with Pious Assault with immediate follow-up with Reap Impurities. Whirlwind attack, Heart of Fury, and Save Yourselves I spammed as soon as they were charged. With the new Mysticism, energy was never an issue, and adrenaline was also not an issue with the group sizes I was attacking.

On my bar alone, five of my eight skills (reap impurities seemed to be particularly brutal) were intended to be unleashed on groups of mobs. On top of my heroes already casting Mark of Pain, Spiteful Spirit, Destructive was Glaive, Panic, Complicate, and Cry of Frustration...

I'm going to continue VQing as fast as possible until something changes. I'm not sure WHAT would be changed, though. None of the skills seemed too unbalancing on their own (compared to Aura of Holy Might and Asuran Scan), but they all added up to the perfect storm, with my toon as the whirlwind.

Incidentally, the only thing that remained on my bar was Save Yourselves. Also, if I used rock candy, I would switch our Heart of Fury for Eternal Aura or By Ural's Hammer.

reaper with no name

reaper with no name

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2009

FaZ

D/

Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleFission View Post
Rangers say flash traps please.
This would be a very good thing.

Lasai

Lasai

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2009

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lufina View Post
Well, here's the bar I was running yesterday. I tried VQing several areas and doing some HM missions towards Legendary Guardian. My attribute points are split between Scythe/Earth/Mysticism. I'm using Furious and Enchanting mods on my boomstick. 92 Armor/550 Health/25 Energy.

Vow of Strength
Sand Shards
Aura of Thorns or Staggering Force (I tested one for the low energy and the other for the quicker recharge)
Pious Assault
Reap Impurities
Whirlwind Attack
Save Yourselves
Heart of Fury

I really don't know what to think. I'm amazed at the synergy of the dervish's newfound powers of destroying entire groups, but I have a sinking feeling a nerf bat will be coming soon. I was Leeroying everything to gain all agro of everything, and under the scythe, my computer blue-screened, except it was filled with yellow numbers. And because of some mesmer skill support backing me up, everything under the scythe seemed to just be standing there waiting to be cut.

I flashed Vow of Strength and Sand Shards upon refresh which I let run their course without teardown, which I covered with Aura of Thorns or Staggering Force (I ran one or the other my my bar) solely for tear-down with Pious Assault with immediate follow-up with Reap Impurities. Whirlwind attack, Heart of Fury, and Save Yourselves I spammed as soon as they were charged. With the new Mysticism, energy was never an issue, and adrenaline was also not an issue with the group sizes I was attacking.

On my bar alone, five of my eight skills (reap impurities seemed to be particularly brutal) were intended to be unleashed on groups of mobs. On top of my heroes already casting Mark of Pain, Spiteful Spirit, Destructive was Glaive, Panic, Complicate, and Cry of Frustration...

I'm going to continue VQing as fast as possible until something changes. I'm not sure WHAT would be changed, though. None of the skills seemed too unbalancing on their own (compared to Aura of Holy Might and Asuran Scan), but they all added up to the perfect storm, with my toon as the whirlwind.

Incidentally, the only thing that remained on my bar was Save Yourselves. Also, if I used rock candy, I would switch our Heart of Fury for Eternal Aura or By Ural's Hammer.
This pretty much refects my experiences so far, with a few different bars also playing around with Ebon Dust aura. Eternal Aura is letting me play around with different sets of sup runes as well. For fun I took Melloni, Khamu and Gwen as heroes to Varajar Fells HM..just an insane slaughter of the melee mobs there. Never seen Asterious go down so fast. Honestly, I feel anyone who thinks this isn't a nice update just isn't setting up new bars and testing.

dagrdagaz

dagrdagaz

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2010

NL

E/N

After trying some enchant remove skills and Flash Enchants for a Derv Hero build, i conclude for the moment its NOT good.

Heroes go frenzy with re-applying Flash Enchants wich ends up being very energy draining still.

hmm, i wonder but i guess not, if the Test Krew tested H/H with the new Derv skills.

Coast

Coast

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

Belgium

Whats Going On [sup]

Mo/

lol so much overpowered stuff, ridiculous

EPO Bot

EPO Bot

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

Mo/N

One very good evolution: I finally made MOX use a scythe after i had used him as a poor mans earth ele/wardbot for so long.

AmbientMelody

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2009

Poland

N/A

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lufina View Post
Well, here's the bar I was running yesterday. I tried VQing several areas and doing some HM missions towards Legendary Guardian. My attribute points are split between Scythe/Earth/Mysticism. I'm using Furious and Enchanting mods on my boomstick. 92 Armor/550 Health/25 Energy.

Vow of Strength
Sand Shards
Aura of Thorns or Staggering Force (I tested one for the low energy and the other for the quicker recharge)
Pious Assault
Reap Impurities
Whirlwind Attack
Save Yourselves
Heart of Fury

I really don't know what to think. I'm amazed at the synergy of the dervish's newfound powers of destroying entire groups, but I have a sinking feeling a nerf bat will be coming soon. I was Leeroying everything to gain all agro of everything, and under the scythe, my computer blue-screened, except it was filled with yellow numbers. And because of some mesmer skill support backing me up, everything under the scythe seemed to just be standing there waiting to be cut.

I flashed Vow of Strength and Sand Shards upon refresh which I let run their course without teardown, which I covered with Aura of Thorns or Staggering Force (I ran one or the other my my bar) solely for tear-down with Pious Assault with immediate follow-up with Reap Impurities. Whirlwind attack, Heart of Fury, and Save Yourselves I spammed as soon as they were charged. With the new Mysticism, energy was never an issue, and adrenaline was also not an issue with the group sizes I was attacking.

On my bar alone, five of my eight skills (reap impurities seemed to be particularly brutal) were intended to be unleashed on groups of mobs. On top of my heroes already casting Mark of Pain, Spiteful Spirit, Destructive was Glaive, Panic, Complicate, and Cry of Frustration...

I'm going to continue VQing as fast as possible until something changes. I'm not sure WHAT would be changed, though. None of the skills seemed too unbalancing on their own (compared to Aura of Holy Might and Asuran Scan), but they all added up to the perfect storm, with my toon as the whirlwind.

Incidentally, the only thing that remained on my bar was Save Yourselves. Also, if I used rock candy, I would switch our Heart of Fury for Eternal Aura or By Ural's Hammer.
Except that is what Dervish is meant to excel at, thanks to the update. If they nerf him, it's not for objective reasons but 'popular demand' of stupid Warriors and Assassins who can't get over the fact Dervish can finally compete with them, after what, 2-3 years!? Lol, give me a break.

PvE skills overpowered every single core profession of the game, not to mention the Assassin and Paragon. There is no logical reason Dervish shouldn't have powercreep to cleave through PvE mobs like butter, if everyone else can do that just as efficiently (especially in the synergy with hero builds).

The only thing to change now is small rework of Paragon and Ranger skills, after that major update to Elementalist's damage output in PvE and then it's all equal, more or less.

Malchior Devenholm

Malchior Devenholm

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

The Dragon Arena!!!

Pshycho Ninjas [oGod] | Vent Rage [vR] | Zealots of Shiverpeak [ZoS]

Quote:
Originally Posted by dagrdagaz View Post
After trying some enchant remove skills and Flash Enchants for a Derv Hero build, i conclude for the moment its NOT good.

Heroes go frenzy with re-applying Flash Enchants wich ends up being very energy draining still.

hmm, i wonder but i guess not, if the Test Krew tested H/H with the new Derv skills.
Yes, but the improved melee AI isn't finished yet. I believe Joe said it will be coming in a future build.

miskav

miskav

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

None

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmbientMelody View Post
Except that is what Dervish is meant to excel at, thanks to the update. If they nerf him, it's not for objective reasons but 'popular demand' of stupid Warriors and Assassins who can't get over the fact Dervish can finally compete with them, after what, 2-3 years!? Lol, give me a break.

PvE skills overpowered every single core profession of the game, not to mention the Assassin and Paragon. There is no logical reason Dervish shouldn't have powercreep to cleave through PvE mobs like butter, if everyone else can do that just as efficiently (especially in the synergy with hero builds).

The only thing to change now is small rework of Paragon and Ranger skills, after that major update to Elementalist's damage output in PvE and then it's all equal, more or less.
I'd much rather have a dervish in my party now than before this update.

Neky

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2009

Incredible Edible Bookah [YUM]

D/W

butterflies in my tummy after reading all this, can't wait to dust off the GW icon and get that r12 kurzick for my derv main.

Squishy ftw

Squishy ftw

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

Your backline

W/

I sure am enjoying this update.

Easily maintainable IAS? AYE
Faster attack speed? AYE
No more (or less) stopping to cast enchantments? AYE

So that's all of my issues taken care of.

I'm not a big fan of the teardown stuff but I can live with that.
Especially liking the Vow of Strength + Sand Shards + WW/Chilling Victory combo so far.

novawhiz

novawhiz

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2006

A/

Same as mesmer update/ all the other updates. Takes a slightly underpowered/underdeveloped profession and instead of just updating them to be viable, equip them with a few completely overpowered aspects. Not suprised..

New Goal Though: LDoA + Leg Survivor

Hells Fury

Hells Fury

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2009

W/D

Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleFission View Post
Rangers say flash traps please.
+1

Warriors say hammer attack speed rate same as scythe.

LordDragon

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2010

Dragons Den

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Cusfreak View Post
No matter if you died once at 1.25million XP due to lag and never ever died again....
If you bought Kath hammers, I would love to see you banned
I finally figured out what bothered me about your post. Now, using your logic, I would say that even if you die AFTER you reach 1,337,000 experience you are no longer a survivor.

A person that goes the entire 1,337,000 after a death has done the exact same thing as doing it the first time. It is even MORE difficult considering that there are lots of non-repeatable quests that the person now does not have access to.

The deaths coming before or after reaching the title amount of experience should not make one iota of difference.

I DO agree with you on the hammers. Cheap azz way of getting the SL3 title.

Strider77

Strider77

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2006

Wandering alone...

Last Of The Dark Hunters [MINE]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by novawhiz View Post
Same as mesmer update/ all the other updates. Takes a slightly underpowered/underdeveloped profession and instead of just updating them to be viable, equip them with a few completely overpowered aspects. Not suprised..
Agreed. It's a shame really.

go cubs

go cubs

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2007

Chicago

[SIR]

D/

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordDragon View Post
I DO agree with you on the hammers. Cheap azz way of getting the SL3 title.
Yeah but no one gets it through playing through the game anymore. (Yes im sure there are 2-3 people out there that do still). Everyone does Kilroy, If i had the money id much rather pay for hammers than do kilroy 10000000 times. Kilroy is just as cheap as hammers, it just takes 10000000 hours longer.

Yes those are real numbers

own age myname

own age myname

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2007

Minnesota

[TAS]

R/

Man, I got to relearn the Dervish again. I feel like we just got a new class.

Gonna have fun dusting off my Dervish.

Sir Cusfreak

Sir Cusfreak

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

In your backline

No Tags [NONE]

After some further thought, and some debate amongst friends, I will say that IF they removed the Kath Hammer BS, and kept Kilroy XP from counting, and the people who were going to go back and get LS on their main toons had to do it by actually earning thier XP while risking death, and therefore actually earning the title, then that would be far, far less offensive - and while I don't really agree it should be done, I could at least respect the decision, and would feel a lot better about it. But seeing a billion people lame-way an LS title post-death is just plain wrong on every level.

Kaleban

Kaleban

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

Hot as hell Florida

[Wckd]

Me/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Cusfreak View Post
But seeing a billion people lame-way an LS title post-death is just plain wrong on every level.
I can't wait for you to explain why.

Apart from the moral BS that you and others are applying to a video game, exactly how does EVERY single character in GW having "lame-way"-ed their LS3 title affect your gameplay? Not your e-peeniness, or any other pseudo-metaphysical rationale, but actual gameplay effects that would somehow make the game unfair.

Be specific.

FoxBat

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Amazon Basin [AB]

Mo/Me

I can't believe people are this upset about Kathandrax hammers while Boxing exists. Or vaettirs. Or the next hundred stupid XP farms. Survivor title has never meant anything to anyone else.

Steps_Descending

Steps_Descending

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2007

IN my pocket plane. Obviously!

Little Tom's Pocket Plane [THom]

Me/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxBat View Post
I can't believe people are this upset about Kathandrax hammers while Boxing exists. Or vaettirs. Or the next hundred stupid XP farms. Survivor title has never meant anything to anyone else.
The 100 stupid farms at least show you can farm without mistake. Of course the title couldn't mean anything concerning skill when it's just exp, anyone with half a brain could predict this. But I'll agree boxing and hammers are borderline worthless as those 2 are completely safe. Anyhow, I can't beleive some people think the title to be 100% worthless.

Dzjudz

Dzjudz

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

gwpvx.com/user:dzjudz

Snow Wurms is even safer than Boxing, it's lag-proof.

Sir Cusfreak

Sir Cusfreak

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

In your backline

No Tags [NONE]

Quote:
I can't wait for you to explain why.

Apart from the moral BS that you and others are applying to a video game, exactly how does EVERY single character in GW having "lame-way"-ed their LS3 title affect your gameplay? Not your e-peeniness, or any other pseudo-metaphysical rationale, but actual gameplay effects that would somehow make the game unfair.

Be specific.



I wouldn't play poker with someone I knew had stacked the deck, would you? I also don't want to race people that sneak head-starts, or play hide and seek with someone who placed a tracking device in my hat, or roulette with magnets in the wheel. Now, those examples are all things that would make me lose the game I was playing, and this isn't. I get that. But If I was in a casino, and MY table was playing a fair game, but the people at the table next to me had their game stacked, and I sat watching them winning cash all night, it's still not a fun experience to be in that casino. I have a hard time believing you can't understand that.
You act like there shouldn't be "moral BS" in games, but the foundation of ALL games is fairness, and I'm sorry you have no honor and believe that morals are BS. It's very sad. But the fact is, I don't want to play any game with cheaters. Finding and removing cheats and exploits is the ONLY thing I honestly expect out of game moderators and developers, just like we expect it out of referees in a sporting event, or the bulls in a casino. I love it when we get updates and new content, but I'd rather they fix exploits and remove cheats (and cheaters!) first. And whether you agree or not, or look at your idea of "e-peeniness" with disdain or not, someone who plays a game plays it to win. And they have every right to enjoy the trophy they are presented, and if one plays a baseball game and earns a trophy at it, and then the refs hand out that same trophy to every spectator in the stands on the way out, guess what? it loses value. And before you start arguing that there's no value in this title or reward, keep in mind that I dont value the things you care about in your life either, but that doesn't make them lose value to you.
Everyone who plays this game plays it for a reason, and expects a foundation of fairness, just like every other game in the world.

ogre_jd

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2008

Canadia

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Cusfreak View Post
After some further thought, and some debate amongst friends, I will say that IF they removed the Kath Hammer BS, and kept Kilroy XP from counting
Nah. Let Kilroy XP count - but getting knocked out so that you have to mash that stand up button like a madman should count as a death.

Joe L.

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2005

USA

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Cusfreak View Post
After some further thought, and some debate amongst friends, I will say that IF they removed the Kath Hammer BS, and kept Kilroy XP from counting, and the people who were going to go back and get LS on their main toons had to do it by actually earning thier XP while risking death, and therefore actually earning the title, then that would be far, far less offensive - and while I don't really agree it should be done, I could at least respect the decision, and would feel a lot better about it. But seeing a billion people lame-way an LS title post-death is just plain wrong on every level.
The only toon I would consider getting this title on would be my 6 year old main ranger. The fact that most of the LS title holders have earned it by some "lame" method makes your argument invalid, considering the fact that anyone who is lag prone really has no chance of earning it in the first place. Trust me, I've tried it twice. Since my aforementioned ranger is my GWAMM, and the title did not exist prior to my first death, than any means of earning the title would be completely valid, and for someone who has earned it before this SPECULATED change to feel cheated in any way is rather ridiculous. Also, as far as any fairness is concerned, the only way to dictate that is by what is made possible within the mechanics of the game, as put in place by the developers, so should a change happen, then by default, any way to get the title would now be as fair as any previous method of attaining the title.

flame away

Horus Moonlight

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

Me/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Cusfreak View Post
I wouldn't play poker with someone I knew had stacked the deck, would you? I also don't want to race people that sneak head-starts, or play hide and seek with someone who placed a tracking device in my hat, or roulette with magnets in the wheel. Now, those examples are all things that would make me lose the game I was playing, and this isn't. I get that. But If I was in a casino, and MY table was playing a fair game, but the people at the table next to me had their game stacked, and I sat watching them winning cash all night, it's still not a fun experience to be in that casino. I have a hard time believing you can't understand that.
This is a contender for the WORST analogy I have ever read in my entire life. If the other table had their game rigged in favour of a payout, that would have a very real and tangible effect on their subsequent life. If a GW player gained another way of obtaining LS3, this would NOT affect your gameplay in any way; this would not make your eyes bleed (I hope...), this would not nerf your character, this would not lessen your ability to play. All this could possibly do is shrink your e-peen, a completely personal construct, which is not a valid argument against giving LS3 alternate routes of acquisition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Cusfreak View Post
You act like there shouldn't be "moral BS" in games, but the foundation of ALL games is fairness, and I'm sorry you have no honor and believe that morals are BS. It's very sad. But the fact is, I don't want to play any game with cheaters. Finding and removing cheats and exploits is the ONLY thing I honestly expect out of game moderators and developers, just like we expect it out of referees in a sporting event, or the bulls in a casino.
He did not state morals are BS. He stated your morals with regard to this LS3 situation is BS. Now let's look at the definition of cheating:

Cheat
verb
act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage

noun
a person who behaves dishonestly in order to gain an advantage

This does not describe a person obtaining LS3 post-death in any way, shape or form. GW and all its standards are a construct of Anet; what is considered cheating is what Anet considers is cheating. If Anet intentionally adds a method for obtaining LS3 post-death, then it is by all intents and purposes fair.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Cusfreak View Post
I love it when we get updates and new content, but I'd rather they fix exploits and remove cheats (and cheaters!) first. And whether you agree or not, or look at your idea of "e-peeniness" with disdain or not, someone who plays a game plays it to win. And they have every right to enjoy the trophy they are presented, and if one plays a baseball game and earns a trophy at it, and then the refs hand out that same trophy to every spectator in the stands on the way out, guess what? it loses value.
Don't assume everyone has the "play-to-win" attitude. That is just one type of mindset that exists within the gamer mentality. I agree that everyone has every right to enjoy a trophy they are given. However, unless the trophy comes with value outside of its sentimentality (such as say, a cash money prize), the only value it loses if it is handed out to others is the value you placed on it: a completely subjective value.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Cusfreak View Post
And before you start arguing that there's no value in this title or reward, keep in mind that I dont value the things you care about in your life either, but that doesn't make them lose value to you.
Everyone who plays this game plays it for a reason, and expects a foundation of fairness, just like every other game in the world.
Wow...

I can't believe you argued against (and invalidated) your own point so well.

ensoriki

ensoriki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Canada bro.

A/D

LS hard? The majority of LS is pure farming.
The hell does it actually matter, when you see someone with Legendary survivor do you go to them and say "Hey how did you get your LS?"
Puh-lease. These semantics are ridiculous now, acting like LS is like someone getting a new pair of jordans. You truthfully don't care until you realize it effects your own e-peen.

Do you go having wonderful conversations with people "Oh yeah I farmed dwarven boxing for my title...yeah took me 12 hours...how long did it take you? Oh you farmed vaettir? Took you 9 hours? Oh well vaettir is the easy way, doing that cheatens the title you know. The way I grinded for 12 incredibly boring hours is clearly superior. Oh hi bob how did you get your LS? You didn't farm? Okay thats nice, whatever, can we go back to talking about me?"

"Oh hi ensoriki what titles do you have?"
"Oh hi Horus what titles do you have?"
Who the hell actually cares what title someone else has, when you may never even meet these people in game?
e-peening legit.
Same reason I didn't care for the dupers, or the people in HA running insert "lameway" or if someone got a run to droks, etc. When the hell am I going to meet people. Hell my examples aren't even good because dupers affected the economy, HA teams affect others trying to play in HA and runners benefit people they don't impede them.

"Oh derp Protector of X should be a one-time thing. If you fail the mission ever your not a protector".

Thats essentially what the survivor title is now. Since the survivor title is so great, maybe we should make Protector "fail any mission period and you must delete your character" ridiculous in it's entirety.


Also about Derv update.
Yo Anet.
Get rid of that flash enchantment disable in pve.
It's just halting the flow of combat wtf. Keep that in PvP as your safety net but srsly, get rid of that crap in pve.

Xiaquin

Xiaquin

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2010

[aRIN]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by ensoriki View Post
Also about Derv update.
Yo Anet.
Get rid of that flash enchantment disable in pve.
It's just halting the flow of combat wtf. Keep that in PvP as your safety net but srsly, get rid of that crap in pve.
Couldn't tell if you were being sarcastic, but just to comment anyway: I was told that unless something unavoidably has to be split, it won't, and that there was a finite number of splits that can be done. The above would create a huge number.

Sir Cusfreak

Sir Cusfreak

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

In your backline

No Tags [NONE]

Quote:
This is a contender for the WORST analogy I have ever read in my entire life. If the other table had their game rigged in favour of a payout, that would have a very real and tangible effect on their subsequent life. If a GW player gained another way of obtaining LS3, this would NOT affect your gameplay in any way; this would not make your eyes bleed (I hope...), this would not nerf your character, this would not lessen your ability to play. All this could possibly do is shrink your e-peen, a completely personal construct, which is not a valid argument against giving LS3 alternate routes of acquisition.
Ive already stated I'm ok with them adding alternate methods of aquiring it - that arent exploits. If a post-death character earns 1.3mil xp without exploits then, fine, they earned the trophy. But the idea that collecting a reward for a quest your character didn't complete (kath hammers) isn't cheating is ridiculous. Of course its cheating, according to your helpful dictionary post, since it is dishonest and for an advantage (not having to earn the XP or be in danger of death)

Now, I stand by my earlier analogy of the casino, which was made to say that sitting in that casino watching this happen isn't fun - thats about my casino experience, not about the tangible effect on the cheater's subsequent lives. Will it make my eyes bleed? probably not. But it isnt fun for the honest players to watch, either, and that does detract from the gaming experience. Is it because the honest player wanted to brag about winning? That would be your e-peen theory. Maybe so, for a lot of people, and taking away that bragging right isn't fair to those with the right to brag about it, why shouldnt they get that? But far more importantly, to me, it also isnt fun watching the cheaters collect, because for those of us who don't just decide we're sitting at the wrong table in that casino, we kinda see it as wrong.

Quote:
If Anet intentionally adds a method for obtaining LS3 post-death, then it is by all intents and purposes fair.
I agree. My point is that I don't want to see them screw with the title without closing the exploit first. I don't believe the exploit was intentionally placed into the game. If it's not removed, then they're allowing a ton of new cheaters to make the already bad situation worse.

Quote:
However, unless the trophy comes with value outside of its sentimentality (such as say, a cash money prize), the only value it loses if it is handed out to others is the value you placed on it: a completely subjective value.
Yes, one of the values of this trophy, like all in-game rewards, is sentimental. And there's nothing wrong with that. But the whole reason someone would bother cheating in the first place is for the tangible reward (title, statue, HoM points, GW2 skins) unless they just really enjoy the glowing light that shines on their character when they turn in the hammers - or they want to see Swithin Nye clap for them and do /cheer a lot of times...which isnt very likely.

But whether or not a value is subjective is irrelevent, it is still a value. Everything about the "worth" of all rewards, items, trophies, and overall gaming experience in GWs is subjective by nature. Some people think the rewards are valuable enough to play or farm to earn. Some people find them valuable enough to brag about, some find them valuable enough argue over, and some people even find them valuable enough to bother to cheat to get them, so they've gotta be worth something at least, right? to some people.

dagrdagaz

dagrdagaz

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2010

NL

E/N

There is one (other) thing i dont get yet, about the Avatar skills.

They have a recharge of 10 secs, but are disabled for 45 secs ???

So, why not simply make the recharge 45 secs (and ditch the disabled part)?

miriforst

miriforst

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2009

Avalons Wraiths

R/Rt

Quote:
Originally Posted by dagrdagaz View Post
There is one (other) thing i dont get yet, about the Avatar skills.

They have a recharge of 10 secs, but are disabled for 45 secs ???

So, why not simply make the recharge 45 secs (and ditch the disabled part)?
Because they are easily interrupted and then it would suck to wait for your elite for 1 minute and 5 seconds (45 recharge + distracting shot)

The disable only happens if you successfully use the skill.

tazer

tazer

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2006

Tiny Siege Turtles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hell Darkblight View Post
+1

Warriors say hammer attack speed rate same as scythe.
yeah, would be fair since their dmg is weaker, rely more on adrenaline and don't attack AoE.
btw, Vampiric mod for Scythe should be lowered now imo, to at least 4.

AmbientMelody

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2009

Poland

N/A

Quote:
Originally Posted by tazer View Post
yeah, would be fair since their dmg is weaker, rely more on adrenaline and don't attack AoE.
btw, Vampiric mod for Scythe should be lowered now imo, to at least 4.
Ah, not really.

Vamp mod: scythe attacks faster, but native Dervish IAS skills boost only by 25%, not 33% (plus, using non-Dervish IAS skills is more of a hassle than notable gain). 5 is still fine.

Hammer attack speed: No. Their dmg is not weaker ... hammers are slower but they have better multiplier for critical hits (scythe got nerfed in this regard), and their average damage not accounting for attack speed is about the same if not better. Warriors have a ton of skills boosting their adrenaline gain and their adrenal-based skills dish out far more damage to a single target.

Anet themselves have said, that Dervish's DPS with scythe is about-the-same now as before the update, because they toned down critical hits to make up for faster attack speed (and that was done to make Dervish more about pressure than spike and tone down the Assassin crit scythe builds).

So, no, really, it's just pointless whining about hammers from your side. They got buffed some time ago and remain very viable in all PvP formats, in PvE less so but blame that on unable-to-knockdown monsters and PvE skills. Warrior is durable enough without a shield, hammer provides very decent ground control for all it's worth.

Just because in average Joe's mentality hammers suck in PvE, doesn't mean they do, by a long shot.

Kaleban

Kaleban

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

Hot as hell Florida

[Wckd]

Me/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Cusfreak View Post
Ridiculous
Well, you failed.

All your analogies were terribly flawed because of the simple fact that they represented gameplay advantages.

Which the Survivor title does not provide.

As to your "sentimentality" argument, you're basically saying that there is some marketable value to LS3, that those with it are somehow better than others.

Given the relative ease with which the title is gained, this is utter tripe. Only the player knows if he achieved it through Kilroy grinding or actual gameplay that you deem "ok" but its irrelevant either way.

The only importance to any title without PvE effects is what the player himself places on it.

Its the same argument if ANet were to make Drunkard the same a Party Animal tomorrow. You'd hear whiny elitists saying "Noes now mine title is not worth anything anymore because its too easy to obtains!!1" Which utter BS because it wasn't worth anything in the first place, other than the value the player perceived it to have.

NONE of which has any effect on gameplay, whether competitive PvP or slaughtering PvE mobs. You should probably learn to distinguish between value perception and actual realistic gameplay effects.

X Dr Pepper X

X Dr Pepper X

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2008

The Mirror of Reason [SNOW]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxBat View Post
I can't believe people are this upset about Kathandrax hammers while Boxing exists. Or vaettirs. Or the next hundred stupid XP farms. Survivor title has never meant anything to anyone else.
This.

Its a stupid gimmicky title with a ridiculous quota for achievement. Of course players are gonna respond to something that dumb with their own broken inventions.

If you remove Kath Hammers or Kilroy XP, they'll just start farming certain mobs like a 130 Derv or a 55 Monk. I guess we better remove those farmable mobs.

Survivor is fine as is. Anybody who takes survivor that seriously over centralizes the value of titles which are completely moot.

Voodoo Rage

Voodoo Rage

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

Sacramento, CA

Geezers

R/

My first impulse was to post that "hey it's not fair to people who got the title to make it easier after the fact" but I got to thinking that the path to certain other titles has certainly changed over the years. Look at Luxon and Kurzick, they were considerably more difficult before they added points for VQ and Shiro books. The availability of sweets and party points didn't used to be as readily available and inexpensive before the super efficient farming builds (vaettirs, raptors, etc...). Heck, with the gifts given during the Snowball Challenge this year, you could probably farm both of those titles singlehandedly during the single holiday. Given there is no way they are going to TAKE AWAY titles from people who did Kilroy or Hammers (the guy who said those players should be banned is a moron) it's kind of a cheat title anyway for most of those title holders. It's not like they are titles that represent some sort of massive effort on the part of most of the title holders. So if they want to tweak Survivors to allow people to do it at any point, I'm all for it (but I am biased as someone who does need the title).

Verene

Verene

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jan 2009

[SOTA]

D/

Quote:
Originally Posted by ensoriki View Post
Also about Derv update.
Yo Anet.
Get rid of that flash enchantment disable in pve.
It's just halting the flow of combat wtf. Keep that in PvP as your safety net but srsly, get rid of that crap in pve.
It's one second. Seriously, it's such a short disable that it doesn't make any difference.

ensoriki

ensoriki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Canada bro.

A/D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verene View Post
It's one second. Seriously, it's such a short disable that it doesn't make any difference.
It's killing my flow. You can't slap rending aura, then drop whirling charge right after to combo with your next strip attack immedietly, lame. Worse yet is when I forget the thing disabled and assumed I pressed it and it loaded.
Then go realizing rending aura didn't que up after whirling charge.

da mahius

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2010

Rip of the Golden Pheonix [RoP]

E/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassma View Post
CAN I HAVE YOUR STUFF?! Thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roen View Post
Dear everyone who wants to stop playing GW after this update: Add me to the list of people in line for all your stuff.
Lol Exactly what I thought. Too many ppz wanting stuff tho...
I just need for a load more HoM points then I'd be givin away free stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the Puppeteer View Post
awesome... now fix HM eles
Yes. HM Eles are in a real need of a fix. I can remember the last time I used an actual elementalist build in PvE cos Sos is owning so much. Its really to do with the enemies too. Your scared of enemy Eles while you your self are useless as all the damage is negated by Armour. The Final Charr Boss on that last EV Mission on EotN deals 100+ damage every second with Fire Storm while I get 30 if I'm lucky.

For the Dervish Updates though, I'll be growing up with these as my 1yo Dervish is still lvl 5. It seems that AoE Damage is more and that I like. However secondary Dervishes are pretty much dead as the CritScythe has been nerfed. BuH is useless in my eyes unless you get party-wiped. How are you supposed to abuse it again? You need to get your party killed in the first place to use it. Asura Scan was a widely useful skill, so RIP there. Intensity went from useless to more useless. An extra 50% every ten seconds isn't worth the one skill slot. Personally I like Dervishes for their multiple hits with a scythe so I should be happy.

I will update this post as soon as I've experienced the Dervish stuff of this Update.

TheRaven

TheRaven

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2006

Virginia

Spirit of Elisha

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Cusfreak View Post
I wouldn't play poker with someone I knew had stacked the deck, would you? I also don't want to race people that sneak head-starts, or play hide and seek with someone who placed a tracking device in my hat, or roulette with magnets in the wheel. Now, those examples are all things that would make me lose the game I was playing, and this isn't. I get that. But If I was in a casino, and MY table was playing a fair game, but the people at the table next to me had their game stacked, and I sat watching them winning cash all night, it's still not a fun experience to be in that casino. I have a hard time believing you can't understand that.
You act like there shouldn't be "moral BS" in games, but the foundation of ALL games is fairness, and I'm sorry you have no honor and believe that morals are BS. It's very sad. But the fact is, I don't want to play any game with cheaters. Finding and removing cheats and exploits is the ONLY thing I honestly expect out of game moderators and developers, just like we expect it out of referees in a sporting event, or the bulls in a casino. I love it when we get updates and new content, but I'd rather they fix exploits and remove cheats (and cheaters!) first. And whether you agree or not, or look at your idea of "e-peeniness" with disdain or not, someone who plays a game plays it to win. And they have every right to enjoy the trophy they are presented, and if one plays a baseball game and earns a trophy at it, and then the refs hand out that same trophy to every spectator in the stands on the way out, guess what? it loses value. And before you start arguing that there's no value in this title or reward, keep in mind that I dont value the things you care about in your life either, but that doesn't make them lose value to you.
Everyone who plays this game plays it for a reason, and expects a foundation of fairness, just like every other game in the world.

I agree with some of this. I hate to play with cheaters as well. I left a guild that had botters in the Alliance because the guild leaders didn't see a problem with it and said "no big deal. They're my friends so I'm not kicking them". I don't want to be associated with an Alliance like that and I don't want to play a game where the game company tolerates botters and cheaters. And please don't say it doesn't affect my gameplay. That's just ignorant. It does. It affects the economy, big time!

However, I don't really have a problem with lame ways to earn survivor. So what? I don't consider that cheating. Lame, yes. Cheating, no. I have a friend that earned 500k experience on her survivor just by playing thru the quests and missions and the last 800k in the boxing dungeon. I tease her about it, but she also managed to make a 2nd LS char just with missions and quests.

Kathandrax hammers is totally lame. If your playing skills are that poor that this is the only way to get the title then you'll get no respect and have no sense of accomplishment from that title, but again, I don't think it's cheating. Cheating would be getting a flawless bot to earn exp somehow non-stop until you have the title.

I'm going for survivor on my main character when it becomes available. I'm not sure yet how I'll earn it. I've done all missions and quests and capped every skill so most options are closed. I won't be buying any hammers. I may simply make 12 FoW clears (fighting alongside my team, not hanging out in the forge). If you think that's cheating because I've died before well then that's your opinion. It's not mine.