Selling In-Game Advantages (The Great Debate Over Mercenary Heroes) - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Xiaquin

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2010

[aRIN]

R/

23 Mar 2011 at 20:01 - 401

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

None of that is content. The "game" portion of the game has never truly been affected like this outside of campaigns. Just seems like a drift from the felt values portrayed by the game and staff.

I can justify campaign advantages. I just can't justify a cash shop item adding that much of an advantage to the game.

If they made GW: Utopia (or whatever the next campaign was to be) and included MH, I would feel no different. If the only way to get it was to use the online store, I'm sure there would be similar calls that it's a cash shop advantage. But is it really the campaign that's different or the idea of downloading it directly?

I understand there's a value to uphold, but I agree with Stumme. It's not adding anything out of bounds, it just came with no content. Is the advantage only justified when one needs to complete quests or title grind? In both scenarios one has to pay to have, the latter simply requires game play.

Is it fair to say that we can have advantages as long as we are willing to do in-game work to earn them? And if so, does owning more campaigns automatically make that easier, because advantages will scale up and make earning the next batch even easier?

We could go for months spinning in these circles. This is my last post and my final thoughts here. I urge we push for profession updates that will be in the best interest of all players, rather than take shots at each other, and we'll all be happier.

X Dr Pepper X

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2008

The Mirror of Reason [SNOW]

R/

23 Mar 2011 at 20:04 - 402

Quote:

Originally Posted by chessyang

yep some have accepted this and moved on. they are still playing/paying/put-up-with-it or have left.

Anet is not going to step backwards. why would they? Only forward . Those who want to follow and play the new game/content hop on board.

ANet can easily choose to stick to their old philosophy of not selling in game advantages and continue to fund the game with microtransactions.

They chose not to.

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

23 Mar 2011 at 20:31 - 403

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmbientMelody

b) solid game content offers no substantial advantage but more variety & choices, as in previous games

Your Nightfall heroes don't offer substantial advantages in Prophecies content? Your EotN consumables don't work in Factions?

inscribed

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2006

23 Mar 2011 at 21:13 - 404

I think many forum goers are just looking for a reason to be upset. Guild Wars is a great game and the folks at ArenaNet are doing a great job keeping things fresh and adding new content. I probably won't buy merc heroes myself but not every thing they release has to be a hit with me, just as long as they keep releasing stuff.

lemming

The Hotshot

Join Date: May 2006

Honolulu

International District [id???]

23 Mar 2011 at 21:18 - 405

I'd be completely happy if my apprehensions about the direction of Anet's microtransactions were proven wrong.

Karate Jesus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2008

Texas

Reign of Judgment [RoJ]

Me/

23 Mar 2011 at 21:41 - 406

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

I don't have a screen shot atm, but doing FoW with 7 heroes is very doable in under 2 hours. In fact, the average time is about 1.5 hours as near as I can tell. (I recently did my survivor title the "long" way by doing 10 FoW trips and the titan quests.

I probably should have clarified....

I meant in HM. The screenshotted run with Mercenary Heroes is in HM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

It has been answered numerous times.....It goes against the entire philosophy that GW was based on.

Yup. Anet is supposedly anti-grinding in general, not just anti-grinding when it benefits their bottom line.

Or so I thought.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

Well if they continue down this road I won't be purchasing GW2. I may only be one lost customer, but I am pretty sure there are a lot of others like me. The player base/customers are part of what made/makes GW great. The *og philosophy is a reason that attracted a certain type of players to create a unique community.

Same here. I decided not to get GW2 a few months back. I'm still active in the community because I have so many ties to it, but when my guild and friends move to GW2, I'll probably be done.

If I wanted to play a generic MMO made by greedy sums-o'-biatches, I would play a Blizzard game. I'm probably just going to look into ToR, D3, or maybe even jump into WoW. For now, I'll stick with console games until I find another MMO that I like.

enter_the_zone

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2007

R/

23 Mar 2011 at 22:01 - 407

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Yup. Anet is supposedly anti-grinding in general, not just anti-grinding when it benefits their bottom line.

I laughed so hard I may have an internal injury. When has GW ever been about anything but optional grind? Once you've completed the story, grinding titles and elite armor/weps is all that's left if you don't PVP, and that started with elite armor in Prophecies. The entire economy is based on the grind for ectos.

novawhiz

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2006

A/

23 Mar 2011 at 22:02 - 408

And this isn't just about these new outrageous Mercenary Heroes. Its about Anet's whole new mindshift in recent days. They have stated that are going to continue this trend and continually add stuff like MH into the NCstore. They have even said they are considering making a new profession, availbale only to those that buy them through the ingame store.

Its just pathetic that Anet is now doing this to us just because our balls in a vice. I have lost so much respect for anet based on the things their employees have said and done in the past months. GW2 looks promising but if they are going to continue this trend, then im not going to waste my money on it just to be smacked in the face later on when they got me.

enter_the_zone

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2007

R/

23 Mar 2011 at 22:04 - 409

I think paying for a new profession is reasonable, considering the work that will have to go into it. A hell of a lot more reasonable than $45 for MH. Besides, how exactly does a new profession disadvantage anyone who chooses not to buy it? Hell, of the 10 we have already, I play ranger and monk, and that's about it. Sin for farming, not that I can be bothered anymore. I'm hardly disadvantaged, I just can't be bothered to play the others.

ensoriki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Canada bro.

A/D

23 Mar 2011 at 22:04 - 410

I don't see why people take this as an indication of Guild Wars 2, when the circumstances surrounding current Guild Wars 1 and future Guild Wars 2 are different.
GW 1 has a smaller team and the business model that came with the philosophy can't be supported anymore because the team that created the campaigns and expansions, are no longer there.

GW2 has that large team, so naturally for GW2 they can go ahead and make all the cosmetic useless crap I won't buy and then sell advantageous expansions/Campaigns that I will buy (EoTN/Factions/Nightfall), like they have in the past. GW1 live team and GW2 dev team aren't working on the same game, so why expect the same philosophy. The people with that philosophy everyones crying for are in GW2 not GW1.

Whats the point of saying "They broke their philosophy with mercs" when the business model was already screwed up when they said no more campaigns. From that point on as a smart business new revenue has to be generated and cosmetic stuff is only for people who want to play dress-up.
Bring on the new crap, all I have to say though is this crap is ridiculously expensive, they need to sell all this as a bundle.

Something called "Guild Wars expanded" or something, and as a bundle it functions as a mini-expansion.
Add BMP, Mercenaries, a character slot, a storage pane and some additional crap and sell it for 45$ as a bundle.
Instead of selling 8 Mercs for $45 these mofo's out of their mind, 8 mercs is purely cosmetic, wtf you gonna do with 8 mercs when you can only take 7 heroes with you? 1 Merc and 3 Mercs were advantageous.

Karate Jesus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2008

Texas

Reign of Judgment [RoJ]

Me/

23 Mar 2011 at 22:06 - 411

Quote:

Originally Posted by enter_the_zone

I laughed so hard I may have an internal injury. When has GW ever been about anything but optional grind? Once you've completed the story, grinding titles and elite armor/weps is all that's left if you don't PVP, and that started with elite armor in Prophecies. The entire economy is based on the grind for ectos.

Don't you remember when the game came out? End-game was PvP. Titles and elite armor didn't matter.

One of the original selling points was that the game had minimal grinding. That was the whole purpose of fast traveling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by enter_the_zone

Besides, how exactly does a new profession disadvantage anyone who chooses not to buy it?

Depends on how poorly they balance it. It could be a huge advantage in PvP or farming PvE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

Something called "Guild Wars expanded" or something, and as a bundle it functions as a mini-expansion.
Add BMP, Mercenaries, a character slot, a storage pane and some additional crap and sell it for 45$ as a bundle.

That would sell like hotcakes. But let's be honest with ourselves, that would never happen. I have a feeling that they're making plenty off of the mercenary heroes. Half my guild bought them (or begged their parents to buy them).

Hardcore fans will pretty much buy whatever a game company puts out, regardless of how superfluous it is (shiny hands from the CE of Proph still go for like $300 on Ebay, don't they?) I think Anet could bottle and sell John Stumme's farts and they would run out of stock.

Ghull Ka

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Seattle, WA

Grenths Helpdesk

N/

23 Mar 2011 at 22:07 - 412

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

I'd be completely happy if my apprehensions about the direction of Anet's microtransactions were proven wrong.

It seems that these apprehensions are part and parcel of your opinion on the subject, and that they cannot be proven wrong until you change your attitude.

Or in other words, lighten up about it and you'll be happier.

ANet's vision is still intact. You buy the box, you can beat the game with nothing else other than the box you bought, and you can play online for free without ever being charged a subscription fee. This is true. Nobody in this thead can argue with this fact.

Folks can say that it's like a "stealthy subscription fee" or whinge about the "direction" that ANet is heading, but the above statement is still a stone-cold fact.

And anyhow, spending your day saying "omg what if something changes??" will not bring you joy, and isn't a very good attitude. GW is a video game you play for entertainment. Why fret so much about it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by novawhiz

They have even said they are considering making a new profession, availbale only to those that buy them through the ingame store.

Citation needed.

Seriously, if you're using something like this to doomsday the entire dev team into a pay-per-everything-you-do nightmare, the least you could do is give us a link. Or did I miss it?

enter_the_zone

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2007

R/

23 Mar 2011 at 22:11 - 413

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Don't you remember when the game came out? End-game was PvP. Titles and elite armor didn't matter.

One of the original selling points was that the game had minimal grinding. That was the whole purpose of fast traveling.

Yeah, I know that's how it was sold. But you were never getting Obby armor without grinding, so it's been there from the beginning, despite their bullshit. And really, do armor/titles matter now? Only if you let them, and only because there really is nothing else left to do in game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Depends on how poorly they balance it. It could be a huge advantage in PvP or farming PvE.

Yeah, so like every other profession then. Sin> Ranger, but you don't see me QQing because my main isn't an invulnerable ecto factory. Really, does anyone care about imba pve farming anymore?

Ghull Ka

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Seattle, WA

Grenths Helpdesk

N/

23 Mar 2011 at 22:15 - 414

Quote:

Originally Posted by enter_the_zone

Yeah, I know that's how it was sold. But you were never getting Obby armor without grinding, so it's been there from the beginning, despite their bullshit.

Obby armor isn't required to beat the game, or to be successful in PvP or in groups with other people.

Some people want to grind for things. Some people expect every game they play to have something to grind for. Obby armor was there for them to grind if they CHOSE to. Many people chose not to. The people who ignored this grind were not disadvantaged.

So, when you use the word "bullshit" I'm not convinced you're using it properly.

Karate Jesus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2008

Texas

Reign of Judgment [RoJ]

Me/

23 Mar 2011 at 22:15 - 415

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghull Ka

Citation needed.

Seriously, if you're using something like this to doomsday the entire dev team into a pay-per-everything-you-do nightmare, the least you could do is give us a link. Or did I miss it?

It's linked in my original post.....

Ghull Ka

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Seattle, WA

Grenths Helpdesk

N/

23 Mar 2011 at 22:20 - 416

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

It's linked in my original post.....

Ahh, I see it now. And I was able to put it in context, too. I'm still not recoiling in horror, though.

"I would say something like a new profession is fair game - so long as it's not empirically better than any other one that you could be."

VS

"They have even said they are considering making a new profession, availbale only to those that buy them through the ingame store."

It reads more logical when un-doomsday'd. Specifically, how can something that by definition must not be better than the built-in professions possibly be labeled by anyone as an "advantage"?

@enter_the_zone, below: Ahh, I get you now. That's my misunderstanding. Cheers.

enter_the_zone

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2007

R/

23 Mar 2011 at 22:24 - 417

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghull Ka

Obby armor isn't required to beat the game, or to be successful in PvP or in groups with other people.

Yeah, nor is any of the other crap we have to grind for, which is my point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghull Ka

Some people want to grind for things. Some people expect every game they play to have something to grind for. Obby armor was there for them to grind if they CHOSE to. Many people chose not to. The people who ignored this grind were not disadvantaged.

Exactly, it's optional. All the grind in GW is entirely optional, but it's there if you want it. But you can't pretend it's not there and wasn't ever there just because it's not compulsory and you choose to ignore it.

The post I was originally replying to was alleging that

"Anet is supposedly anti-grinding in general, not just anti-grinding when it benefits their bottom line."

the allegation being that MH are somehow shortcutting grinding, when in fact, at best, they are making the completely optional non-compulsory grind that already exists, and has since lauch, very slightly faster.

As regards to bullshit, that depends on how you regard Anet's original statement that GW isn't about grinding. It wasn't intended that way, and it wasn't that way at launch, but I think you'll find that after 5 years, there isn't much else to do when you launch GW. It's grown to be that way, thereby making their original statement : bullshit.

novawhiz

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2006

A/

23 Mar 2011 at 22:29 - 418

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghull Ka

Citation needed.

lol alright. didnt realize my lit proff was on here.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User:...m_Thoughts_box

"In other words, I would say something like a new profession is fair game - so long as it's not empirically better than any other one that you could be."

and we know how great anet is at balancing professions....

Ghull Ka

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Seattle, WA

Grenths Helpdesk

N/

23 Mar 2011 at 22:32 - 419

Quote:

Originally Posted by novawhiz

lol alright. didnt realize my lit proff was on here.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User:...m_Thoughts_box

"In other words, I would say something like a new profession is fair game - so long as it's not empirically better than any other one that you could be."

and we know how great anet is at balancing professions....

Right.

So if it's nigh impossible to guarantee that this new profession would not be empirically better than any other one... then it follows that no such profession would ever be introduced.

And if one WAS introduced, it would, by definition, be required to be UNDERPOWERED compared to the standard professions.

And therefore, not an "advantage" at all. Just vanity.

"Hey guys, i unlocked the Ballerina profession and rolled one, lol"
"Great. Now log your monk and let's do this mission"

X Dr Pepper X

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2008

The Mirror of Reason [SNOW]

R/

23 Mar 2011 at 22:51 - 420

The worst part about them considering adding a new profession is that they can't even balance the 10 that we already have.

PvE is torn asunder due to the stupid bullshit from the 10 current ones, and PvP is still not balanced in regards to Paragons.

Surely, we would expect them to prioritize fixing the existing professions over making a new one?

...unless the new one makes them more money...

lemming

The Hotshot

Join Date: May 2006

Honolulu

International District [id???]

23 Mar 2011 at 22:53 - 421

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghull Ka

It seems that these apprehensions are part and parcel of your opinion on the subject, and that they cannot be proven wrong until you change your attitude.

Or in other words, lighten up about it and you'll be happier.

ANet's vision is still intact. You buy the box, you can beat the game with nothing else other than the box you bought, and you can play online for free without ever being charged a subscription fee. This is true. Nobody in this thead can argue with this fact.

Folks can say that it's like a "stealthy subscription fee" or whinge about the "direction" that ANet is heading, but the above statement is still a stone-cold fact.

And anyhow, spending your day saying "omg what if something changes??" will not bring you joy, and isn't a very good attitude. GW is a video game you play for entertainment. Why fret so much about it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghull Ka

Right.

So if it's nigh impossible to guarantee that this new profession would not be empirically better than any other one... then it follows that no such profession would ever be introduced.

Classes can be better than other classes at doing things without being empirically better, you know.

Karate Jesus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2008

Texas

Reign of Judgment [RoJ]

Me/

23 Mar 2011 at 22:56 - 422

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghull Ka

So if it's nigh impossible to guarantee that this new profession would not be empirically better than any other one... then it follows that no such profession would ever be introduced.

You really think Anet could balance a new profession? Especially with all the secondary issues? You have a lot more faith in Anet than I do....or I just base my opinions on the past. One or the other.

Anet also tends to forget that you can have multiple copies of the same profession, especially in PvP. I have a hard time imagining them not overpowering a new profession.

Plus, if they make a new profession and it's underpowered, not many people will be interested. If it's overpowered, everyone will want it. I have a feeling someone making the skills would realize this....

Ghull Ka

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Seattle, WA

Grenths Helpdesk

N/

23 Mar 2011 at 23:36 - 423

I see where you're coming from with the ostrich pic. I won't feel bad about being an optimist though.

"Buy box, L2P, beat game, play online free forever" still lives, no matter how pessimistic you want to be.

Quote:

Classes can be better than other classes at doing things without being empirically better, you know.

Rite. Observe:

Introducing the "Bard" profession. It can't gain a secondary, but starts at lvl 20. It has three attributes: "Style" "Gusto" and "Confidence (Primary)". All the skills for this profession are pretty terrible, more or less nerfed versions of other professions's skills. But the Bard profession has a few unique, crazy skills like "Rock Out" and "Riverdance". Good for lulz, not great for gaming, really. Slap it in the cash shop and let people who enjoy sparkly ponies buy it. (because you know they will)

Heck, maybe you could beat the game with a Bard, who knows? But then again, who knows anything about it? It was four or five words in the middle of a blog post, not a presentation to a president. Who says the off-handed "lol new profession" comment from Stumme demands an actually usable profession? But to assume that and then go five steps further and assume it will also be an "advantage" that ruins their vision somehow?

I can't get on board with that kind of pessimism.

Dzjudz

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

gwpvx.com/user:dzjudz

23 Mar 2011 at 23:54 - 424

Quote:

Originally Posted by enter_the_zone

Yeah, nor is any of the other crap we have to grind for, which is my point.

Of course. You can argue that the entire game is optional.

lemming

The Hotshot

Join Date: May 2006

Honolulu

International District [id???]

24 Mar 2011 at 00:03 - 425

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghull Ka

Introducing the "Bard" profession. It can't gain a secondary, but starts at lvl 20. It has three attributes: "Style" "Gusto" and "Confidence (Primary)". All the skills for this profession are pretty terrible, more or less nerfed versions of other professions's skills. But the Bard profession has a few unique, crazy skills like "Rock Out" and "Riverdance". Good for lulz, not great for gaming, really. Slap it in the cash shop and let people who enjoy sparkly ponies buy it. (because you know they will)

I'm honestly not too sure what a viable PvE comparison would be, since I agree with this thread's consensus that PvE balance generally doesn't matter. However, if even one of their unique skills becomes relevant somehow in GvG, then there'd be a pretty noticeable problem.

And, well, let's be honest here. Do you think Anet would ever really release a class like that? The forums would be full of requests to buff bards.

Rocky Raccoon

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

Massachusetts, USA

Guardians of the Cosmos

R/Mo

24 Mar 2011 at 00:03 - 426

My PvE enjoyment of the game is not affected by anything ANET sells in the store. Although I don't do much PvP if it had an affect there, then I would see a problem.

ogre_jd

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2008

Canadia

W/

24 Mar 2011 at 00:41 - 427

Quote:

Originally Posted by chessyang

but i felt a bit duped when i had pay for the BMP back in 06 to play the extra side content.

me-->QQ

Why? When did they ever say they would never charge for new content?

Oh, and (unrelated to chessyang's post), I'll have to ask again:

Beyond A) being able to have level 20 Heroes sooner than normal (only for Tyrians who get run to LA before level 10 and for under-level 10 Elonians, though then they sacrifice leveling the Heroes they need for the storyline), and B) being able to have Heroes of certain Primary Professions sooner (most importantly, Ritualist, due to Razah being unavailable until after Nightfall completion and is the reason I'm likely to pick up a single slot this month), what actual advantage do Mercenary Heroes give?

Yes, you can have numbers of primary Professions that aren't possible with the standard Heroes, so what? Is there any content in the game that can only be completed with a 3/5/7-Hero party composition that is only possible with Mercenary Heroes and not the currently available standard Heroes? Seriously, is there any? I can't think of any and I doubt such exists.

Heck, is there any content where a 3/5/7-Hero party only possible with Mercs would complete it fast enough compared to the regular Heroes (and multi-human parties) to actually affect the game economy? Again, I highly doubt it.

Captain Bulldozer

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2008

Servants of the Dragon Flames [SODF]

24 Mar 2011 at 00:47 - 428

Those doomsayers worry about a new profession should note the following:

1) A new profession would require, at the very least, new armor skins, attributes, and at least, say, 30 new skills. It could also require new weapons and skins, and that would have to involve changes to the drop tables in many locations, since there would not be a new campaign for those weapons to drop in. There are also the aforementioned balance issues, and there would potentially be a need for reworking all the beginning game content just to fit a new profession in.

2) Currently, anet has not even been able to find the time to update drop tables from prophecies and factions to the inscription system, nor add elite (or non-elite) armors for dervish and paragon to the locations in prophecies and factions. The paragon profession is badly in need of a rework, and other professions are in need of some adjustment. Winds of change is not yet released, nor is the potential GWB content dealing with Elona.

Thus, I will broadly proclaim that a new profession is not going to happen, at least until GW2 has already been released. It would require things to be fixed that even the full live team couldn't find time for when the live team consisted of more than a handful of people. So, live in fear of this pie-in-the-sky statement if you wish, but it seems pretty foolish to do so as far as I'm concerned.

enter_the_zone

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2007

R/

24 Mar 2011 at 00:49 - 429

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

Of course. You can argue that the entire game is optional.

Missing the point that if you are still playing GW after 5 years, you are almost certainly willingly engaged in non-compulsory grind or have extreme "learning difficulties". But 1) that is your choice and 2) to bitch because someone spent $45 and has gained a tiny advantage during that grind for non-compulsory, unneccesary sparkly things is just plain stupid. To worry about what it may indicate for the future isn't.

Saint Scarlet

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2010

Everywhere

Rise of Corruption[RoC]

R/

24 Mar 2011 at 02:14 - 430

Use your imaginations for a minute please...

They introduced Merc heros which lots of people bought, Anet thinks to themselves well people seem happy enough to pay for this. What else can we charge them for.

Next major content update is supposed to be WoC(iirc). They have not said its going to be free have they. Why don't they charge $10 for it doesn't hurt the community because it gives no-one an advantage (even if it's the same as WiK and has weps associated with it)

Are all you people willing to pay for the next part in the story between GW and GW2?

Another possibility they might think. Hmm to make some spare cash before the end, why don't we charge $10 for an unique access code so that you can transfer your achievements to GW2(they never said it was going to be free to do this)

Do you people see the potential problem here, if not then i applaud your ability to not think of all possible outcomes, good and bad!

Anet need us the community to voice our concerns as well as our congratulations. If they for a minute think everyone is willing to pay for extras, where do you draw the line. At the end of the day this Merc update stepped a bit further across the line than they have before.

Anyone heard of the old saying, "Give them an Inch...."

afya

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

Mo/Me

24 Mar 2011 at 02:57 - 431

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint Scarlet

Use your imaginations for a minute please...

They introduced Merc heros which lots of people bought, Anet thinks to themselves well people seem happy enough to pay for this. What else can we charge them for.

Next major content update is supposed to be WoC(iirc). They have not said its going to be free have they. Why don't they charge $10 for it doesn't hurt the community because it gives no-one an advantage (even if it's the same as WiK and has weps associated with it)

Are all you people willing to pay for the next part in the story between GW and GW2?

Another possibility they might think. Hmm to make some spare cash before the end, why don't we charge $10 for an unique access code so that you can transfer your achievements to GW2(they never said it was going to be free to do this)

Do you people see the potential problem here, if not then i applaud your ability to not think of all possible outcomes, good and bad!

Anet need us the community to voice our concerns as well as our congratulations. If they for a minute think everyone is willing to pay for extras, where do you draw the line. At the end of the day this Merc update stepped a bit further across the line than they have before.

Anyone heard of the old saying, "Give them an Inch...."

I know that saying in Chinese XD, first time I hear from non-asian tho.
I can't agree more. I can understand Anet, as a company, have to find ways to earn a profit. Costumes are fine as there ain't too many. There are just a few on the festivals. If there are too many, and if the free skins are horrible, that will be a problem. Fortunately that's not the case in GW. However, costumes is the most I can accept as a paid item. Merc Heroes had passed that line.
Thinking of the future, I do not worry much about GW anymore, but GW2. Doesn't matter much even if they screw up GW bad. But if they carry this habit(charging for everything) over to GW2.......I don't know if what GW2 would become.
Kill the roaches before they laid egg

X Dr Pepper X

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2008

The Mirror of Reason [SNOW]

R/

24 Mar 2011 at 04:16 - 432

We can all agree that ANet are roaches then?

ensoriki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Canada bro.

A/D

24 Mar 2011 at 11:28 - 433

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint Scarlet

Use your imaginations for a minute please...

That's the damn problem, stop using your imaginations and try to come at this with a little more tact.
People acting like the team working on GW1 is the same team on GW2.
Oh wait it isn't.
Now because they hadn't come and straight out told you something is free we're going to play the suspicious game. When they already gave the general idea of how HoM works?

1. So what if they charged for WoC, half of the Q_Q in this thread was that Mercenaries can't be compared to Campaigns because theres no storyline content. What is WoC...oh damn. Lets not forget what BMP is, oh and that WiK is bigger than BMP too.
2. Still overexaggerating, WoC isn't going to be paid for and you know it, why use your imagination for this. It's still part of the GW: beyond content which had the purpose of linking you to to GW1 and helps to sprout hype and desire for GW2 to see the future world of Tyria. Locking you out from GW: Beyond doesn't help to bridge the gap and generate more hype in their GW fanbase.

Problem here is people want to use their imagination as an argument.
Like we're still imaging that campaigns come out every 6 months when they don't, and still imaging that a B2P format based on that 6 month release is going to function well when the 6 month release no longer happens. Now suddenly all that is fixed by adding dress-up to the in-game store.
"Everyones going to buy dress-up"

Saint Scarlet

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2010

Everywhere

Rise of Corruption[RoC]

R/

24 Mar 2011 at 12:38 - 434

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

snip

Excuse me! I have not been using my imagination as an argument, i was using this as an allegory to the situation as it currently is. If you cannot think about things and examine all possible outcomes, whats the point in trying to do anything.
We know the teams working on GW and GW2 are different, but strangely enough they work for the same company, in the same office and regularly talk things over with each other so as to not make mistakes on lore and the like(and yes we do know this because it has been mentioned several times by members of both teams in the last 2 years).

And if you actually read the post properly you would understand it's an EXAMPLE , which means that this isn't happening(to my knowledge). It means that this is something that i fear could happen. When people/companies do things like what Anet have done it is usually(that means habitually or customary) a testing of the water.
They stick a toe in the water to see if it's warm enough = They release paid for upgrades that give you an advantage to see if the community responds warmly to it.

Stop trying to just pick holes in our opinions and what we are saying and actually either post your opinions or facts about this Merc update.

chessyang

Not far from Elite

Join Date: Apr 2006

Florida

W/

24 Mar 2011 at 12:55 - 435

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogre_jd

Why? When did they ever say they would never charge for new content?

To answer second part of your question. Never.

To answer the first question of "Why" I felt duped. Caution. Has lots of "I".

oh mods please remove the spoiler tag if needed or delete it. didn't want to waste anyone time with QQ or get off topic. But i did want to respond.

Now back on track *orders up another hamburger*

Gabs88

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2011

24 Mar 2011 at 13:48 - 436

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint Scarlet

Next major content update is supposed to be WoC(iirc). They have not said its going to be free have they. Why don't they charge $10 for it doesn't hurt the community because it gives no-one an advantage (even if it's the same as WiK and has weps associated with it)

They introduced costumes and we bought those, so they charge us for mercenary heroes? Whats really the big problem here? I dont see anything wrong with them charging and making money off bonus mission packs and items in the game. It's just a good incentive to make more of the same. Because IMO, more content = good.

And the whine about mercenary heroes is still just stupid, because a player with all campaigns and EOTN and the normal heroes is still gonna be way better then a player with all campaigns except EOTN and a full pack of mercenary heroes.

Saint Scarlet

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2010

Everywhere

Rise of Corruption[RoC]

R/

24 Mar 2011 at 15:27 - 437

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabs88

They introduced costumes and we bought those, so they charge us for mercenary heroes? Whats really the big problem here? I dont see anything wrong with them charging and making money off bonus mission packs and items in the game. It's just a good incentive to make more of the same. Because IMO, more content = good.

And the whine about mercenary heroes is still just stupid, because a player with all campaigns and EOTN and the normal heroes is still gonna be way better then a player with all campaigns except EOTN and a full pack of mercenary heroes.

Thats ok then, I personally would prefer Anet stuck to their original stance about not selling in-game advantages. If you are happy to pay for content that Anet was going to release for free, our opinions differ there but it's fine with me.

It all depends on the ability of each player. I know people who have completed everything there is to do, yet they are still clueless as to how different skills and builds work. Others i know have hardly played through half the content, yet they know a couple of things that even i didn't (and i have been around the block a few times).
Yet again a comparison between games and upgrades doesn't really work as they are totally different things. Each has it's own benefits so they are really not the same thing.

If my posts are considered "whining" and "stupid" to you then ok, just don't go joining in any RL debates otherwise you might get upset.

TheGizzy

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2010

A giant mitten

TeAe

E/R

24 Mar 2011 at 16:00 - 438

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint Scarlet

Thats ok then, I personally would prefer Anet stuck to their original stance about not selling in-game advantages.

I'm curious about something... if ANet had to choose between folding up, ending development of GW2, ceasing running servers for GW1... or selling tangible in-game advantages (a PvP-permitted 1000dmg sword or something) in microtransactions... which would you expect them to choose?

I'm just wondering how far the whole "stick with the original business model" line is supposed to be followed.

Because here is reality - not all business models are sustainable. Sometimes even the best intentions must be set aside for survival. Personally, I don't view any of the decisions I've seen out of ANet/NCSoft regarding GW to be indicative of a loss of their original vision or intention, but clearly a handful of people feel otherwise with the introduction of merc heroes. So that makes me curious just how hard they expect ANet to cling to the original vision if ANet is ever faced with a decision between changing the vision, or shutting off the lights for good.

Dzjudz

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

gwpvx.com/user:dzjudz

24 Mar 2011 at 16:17 - 439

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGizzy

I'm curious about something... if ANet had to choose between folding up, ending development of GW2, ceasing running servers for GW1... or selling tangible in-game advantages (a PvP-permitted 1000dmg sword or something) in microtransactions... which would you expect them to choose?

Or another choice: cosmetic microtransactions. This works for costumes, why would it suddenly not work for Mercs?

Saint Scarlet

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2010

Everywhere

Rise of Corruption[RoC]

R/

24 Mar 2011 at 16:35 - 440

@ TheGizzy - Yes i understand that. I just think it would be nice for them to tell us if the policy has changed not try and hide their intentions. Do not get me wrong i love GW and would hate to see it vanish.
They are bankrolled pretty much by NCSoft and it's them that set the prices of things(or this is how i see it) so i know quite a few of us are using Anet as the scapegoats in this. But it's still their "baby" they are the ones with the power to tell NCSoft what's happening, we have to tell Anet what we think. And it's not just a handful of people, over the years a vast majority of us have looked on with growing apprehension at the way things seem to have gone. Anet is still one of the better companies out there, but over time they seem to have lost what it was that made them the best.
I have played for over 5 years now and i have seen hundreds of friends become disillusioned with the way Anets philosophy has changed, and left for pastures new. Yes i know it's a fairly old and tired game now, even though i still love it.

To use an analogy, GW is like a pet dog. It's been in the family for years but now it's old and sick and the vets bills are getting more and more costly. I love my dog but i'd rather see it put out of it's misery, than suffer the ignominy of dieing a painful death alone.

If Anet come and tell us whats up and actually have a proper discourse with us then i will know whats what. It's the not knowing and feeling like i'm almost being lied/cheated to that makes me feel the way i do now(yes i know they haven't lied or cheated about anything thats just the feeling i associate with whats happening now and in the past)