Live Team shifted over to work on GW2

I'd agree on this as well. The other issue is that many updates not requiring much work could have been done : basically reverting back some skills updates, introducing back TA/HB, making event formats permanent, adding a map rotation in AB, changing rewards from quests , etc...

Many will agree to say that most updates we had generally made no sense, whereas kind of updates i mentionned above wouldn't have required a big job at all..

Let's just hope that gw2 will take into account gw1 mistakes.

One thing that should be mentioned is that they're no longer supporting older versions of Windows. Doesn't this allow the GW1 devs more freedom in terms of what they can do with updates and features?

ANET presented it this way:

Discontinuing support for older versions of Windows allows us to deploy features that will improve account management and security.

They said nothing about added features and updates but one can hope.

Yup, that's what pisses me off the most.

I see the change as somehow related to them improving security for GW2 frankly. GW1 accounts may well be using the same official forums for example.

Bwuahahahaha I read the whole thread and found that hillarious. It didn't even occur to me that the surprise could be really terrible news (because they wouldn't hint it like that). It would be hilarious if the surprise was GW1 Live Team is done.

Just no. There's no way they did an entire Elona chapter in the time since WoC ended (not even an abbreviated one). They've proven quite comprehensively that their team is very limited in the amount of content they can produce in a certain period of time. The final part of Winds of Change was released on the 9th of February and before that part two was released on the 29th of September, that's a four month gap between those two released and part three was considerably smaller than the first two parts. On top of that they added a small quest for April Fools this year which would have taken resources, whatever they have planned for the anniversary celebration, keep your expectations low and I mean LOW.

At most we might get a cool new feature or two (something small like the friend locations aka who on my list is also my friend) and if we are really lucky, a skill update (I seriously doubt it). I expect it will be the usual drops, maybe some kind of party like event (similair to the farewell to Gaile) but no big quests, no fun lore, no cool items to collect (aside from the birthday gifts which very few people who still play will be getting - how many people are still logging in after 7 years compared to those who picked up the game later on?). Maybe we will get costumes or a novel quest, but seriously, keep your expectations low.

It's sad they are taking the Live Team away from GW1, I understand the all hands on deck approach, but it really seems like they contribute most by working on the original rather than polishing or bug fixing the sequel. I'm glad they at least get to work on the new game and can claim they contributed in some way, must be nice career-wise - and probably interesting to do something new with different limitations.

They did say they will keep supporting GW1 after GW2 was launched, and many people believed that was not only limited to the servers but included the Live Team as well (I believe Stumme mentioned he wanted it that way, I don't think he promised it or said it would happen in any official capacity), so it's disappointing that they are going to stop supporting (even if it's just until launch or earlier) GW1 to feed the sequel. If they work on the game up until launch, GW1 very likely won't see a content update for the next 12 months (barring whatever they did for the anniversary) based off of the time it takes to create and release new content, and it's not like we were seeing much before this news. If that really is the case, why bother returning the team to a game which went stale for a year and had it's population hit by the release of a sequel? I expect people to still play a year from now, but I don't think the community will be big enough to justify the Live Team after this.

To me, this is the end of GW1 development, which is a sad concept as many of us were expecting (based off of what we were told) that GW1 development would continue, even as stifled as it is, even after the sequel launched. For those of you who talk crap about subscription fees or F2P (I should ignore anyone who said that to be fair seeing as the game has never been F2P) I seem to recall giving ArenaNet money last year on several different occasions under the premise that buying costumes would support the continued development of GW1, so I haven't been getting "free updates" for the last few years - I've continued to financially support ArenaNet.

As far as I could see there were two reasons to keep the Live Team active on GW1 (possibly three).

1. They wanted to curry good favour with the community and keep a favourable impression of the developer and how they treat their legacy content. People are more likely to buy into their new release if they personally experienced (or heard about) good upkeep on an older title. How they did upkeep on GW1 will reflect on people's predictions for how they will upkeep GW2 (depending on how long you've been around you might have different views of this). The HoM further taps into this by bringing in new players who want the bonuses for GW2 and pick up the game recently. They see content updates many years after release and aren't aware this is a recent luxury (and certainly not the norm for ArenaNet and GW1) further "galvanising" a favourable view of the company.
   
2. They wanted to bridge a lore gap and take this opportunity to link the two games up, keeping the old community invested in the game and the franchise to bide time until the sequel is released. People were less likely to forget about GW1 if it had new content, this makes stepping back into Tyria a second time less of a big ask. The most loyal fans are the ones that have been with you since the beginning.
   
3. They may have seen an opportunity to continue making money off of GW1. By selling costumes and features such as mercenaries they can make some money off of an already captured audience, especially considering how little these features cost to implement compared with the exorbitant prices it cost to buy them.

With the Live Team now gone for the foreseeable future (possibly until release) by the time they return, few if none of these reasons will be relevant. What incentive will be left for them to stick around?

"All good things must come to an end.

I feel like I'm the only one here who is at ease with them shifting resources to Guild Wars 2. This game is seven years and truly had an amazing run. In my opinion Guild Wars was an industrial symbol but just because of the praise it deserves, people shouldn't act obsessive. ArenaNet said they would continue to support the game but that was it. I don't know how someone could detract updates or new content from that in the very first place. I can't wait for Guild Wars 2 to come out simply because it is a new game. I'm ready for this new chapter in my gaming history and I really believe that those who still hold to this game are acting foolish. This game has also been my love but there is no point in staying on a sinking ship. Clearly they've made enough profit off of this money and that is what ArenaNet wanted. They are not our next door neighbor or a parent who unconditionally loves us, but rather a company. They are profit motivated and they reaped what they got. They were very courteous and gave us extra content, which in my opinion, was way beyond all the money I spent on this game, but just because they showered us with extra treats does not mean that they pare particularly obligated to. They care about their fan base but as a company, they will set their eyes on our cash. It isn't evil but a way of modern society.

alot act like GW is no longer a part of anet's profit, or act like GW no longer is important

remember: GW2 is a different game, same story(but then years later), but different game

why should they leave GW floating and ignore its playerbase? it can be a nice source of profit if they continue to add stuff (not just gifts and such, but also elona content and such)

2 games is better than 1 game, so if they support both with full (as far as possible after GW2's release) attention, then both games give nice profit

also, why should GW be left alone only cuz its 7 years old?
why should GW be left alone only cuz no other MMO has made it through 7 years like this? (maybe a few did, i dunno)

should they make enough profit out of GW2 they could even make another GW expansion, or just keep smaller but still big updates, depending on how many stay in/come to GW after GW2's release

its not like older games should be left alone cuz there's a new one

* "left alone" means in this case, that its online, but not being made better/bigger (whether its a whole expansion or another ingame content) *

so dont talk GW to its grave, as that would have bad effect on anet's income, like people new in GW would think like: oh its dying.... bye

besides, GW is the only MMO(i know, its named CORPG) which really made me play for this long, its that good

should anet keep going on with GW while also having GW2 released, their income would be enormous, as people can play both without worrying about fees (1 of the few times i compare GW to other MMO's)

and GW has nice ingame store stuff which they can make bigger over time, also nice addition

so whats better?
1. GW being left online without further attention, and people leaving the game
2. GW and GW2 both getting alot of attention (GW2 more, but GW enough for the players) making people who DO like the game stay in GW AND buy/play GW2 PLUS buying ingame store stuff (not all, but alot will) in both games, instead of 1

you say it... i think its nr2

also 1 more thing: there are people who left GW and now wont buy GW2 cuz they either have not much faith in anet as GW is kinda less updated than before, or they found a game (or more games) where updates keep coming

i've seen perfect world games, and PWi is old (the game Perfect World), yet people still play that game AND their newer games
so its possible to keep people joining, playing AND paying for extra stuff in GW

and then PWi is less advanced than GW (except has more .... dungeons(?) )
so GW can survive much longer if they do it right

now they give GW2 more attention, but after GW2 has really started to live effectively, they can just get more out of GW

i for 1 stay in GW, and prolly buy more storage tabs and maybe char slots and merc hero slots
then i may buy future costumes if i like em, and if GW ever gets more expansions, i surely buy em

so GW dying money-wise? nah, just community-wise ATM
i know enough others who'll play both btw, including my reallife sister and friend (and some GW friends, plus others i heard it from when seeing them)

dont worry, if they do it right (and i have enough faith in em) they can make more than enough profit from GW even after GW2, like giving more stuff (once they got the time and space again)

Why stay? Well, why not? GW1 is hardly sinking any more than any of the other decade-old MMOs still out there with their dedicated playerbase. Why read your favorite book over and over again through the years? Why go to the same Amusement Park year after year, even when they don't add anything new?

Because it is something enjoyable and the entertainment has not faded over the years. I still play Wizardry, Eye of the Beholder, Baulder's Gate, Stronghold, SimCity (the original and 2000) on a regular basis because I still find the experience of the games enjoyable. Just like I continue to read the same book or watch the same movie time and again, even though I have pretty much memorized both. The fun and enjoyment has not faded, nor will likely fade at this point. A game's age has nothing to do with the experience it can provide - to throw something away just because its "old" is truly the foolish path.

That being said, it should be little surprise that the Live Team has been shanghaied - just look at any game released today - the bugs and problems are inevitable, but the devs are going to try to do everything they can to avoid another Stronghold 3 or Star Trek Online debut. Even GW1 has problems in the first few months and it wasn't really until Factions was released that it really hit its stride.

Hanok

There's nothing "foolish" about wanting the updates that anet has said in the past they will be working on. The ship may be "sinking", but I would like anet to at least hold it above water until GW2 comes out.

I look at it this way: (a few bad examples)
you have your first kid, you lavish attention on it--when the 2nd one arrives do you stop feeding the first?
You own a restaurant, you open a 2nd one--yeah it takes lots of effort, but do you close the 1st one down because you have a 2nd?
You buy a 2nd car--do you stop driving the first????

gw and gw2 are TOTALLY DIFFERENT games. It would be foolish to stop taking care of the one with the 2nd not even out the door yet--and heaven only knows if it will succeed, what if it crashes and burns (Tabula Rasa???) then what do you have? NO games at all.
Best not to cut off your foot until you have secured your new means of locomotion.

I'm not going to lie, it was really hard to follow what you were saying. It seemed to be a tangent of collected thoughts rather than a fluid argument. Anyways, you seem to be basing your idea that ArenaNet has the actual amount of people to take care of two games. ArenaNet is significantly smaller compared to other game developers. Their resources are limited and because of that, they had to, long ago, focus almost everyone they had towards Guild Wars 2. Were it not for this, Guild Wars 2 could have taken a much longer time to produce. Am I the only one who reads beyond their professional statements? They may "support" the community, but the actual time it would take to implement the "stuff" you mention would take a significantly higher time now that there Live Team has been shifted over. And they do it because the game is getting older, and the patterns are, and have been, showing for the past years. With every expansion or event came a new costume that generated some profit, a recursive style of update that shifts attention from one profession to another, and of course, a stagnation of actual updates altogether. It is no mere coincidence that only in the past few years that they now started selling costumes. It was meant to act as a micro-transaction so they could generate further profits that would enable them to keep afloat what ever ulterior motives they have. With the degeneration of the population count in the game, ArenaNet has decided that it was time to focus more resources towards their next title.

Your statement, "2 games is better than 1 game" is not true at all. As a company, they will want money. A great example of how wrong your statement is would be from Bungie Studios. Two years ago they shut down the Halo 2 servers because of the lack of a sustainable population. Keeping it afloat for a bare community was idiotic for them because it was acting as a leech of their money. Game studios aren't some sort of... idealistic safe paradise, they are a company. If a game isn't doing well, they will shift their priorities accordingly, and what that wiki post from John Stumme indicates is that Guild Wars is once again getting older and with a game that is nearly completed, their effectiveness as a company would be better spend developing one game rather than two.

You act as if I hate Guild Wars. I loved this game just as much as any other fanboy/fangirl. I remember spending days in Study Hall formulating damage and armor tables and theorycrafting in my spare time. I lived and breathed Guild Wars back in the day. Guild Wars is not getting abandoned primarily because of how old it is, but because of the amount of people that are drifting away and due to the production of Guild Wars 2.

What you later on to say is pure speculation. Primarily on two field; if Guild Wars 1 is sufficiently alive enough by the time they are ready to make their next step after the initial release, updates, and fixes for Guild Wars 2, which I would say, would be a good 2 - 3 months in time overall, then they may develop more for Guild Wars 1. It's all about what they can get from it. Why produce content that takes months to make for a few thousand people while they can make something (that is also much more advanced and better use of their time, due to their new engine by the way) that would be played by hundreds of thousands of players? It would be illogical to do that. The time and money to be put into a game with a bareboned community would be, quite frankly, idiotic. But, if Guild Wars 1 would be alive enough after the intial period of Guild Wars 2, then it is still in the realm of possibility they would make content for Guild Wars 1. It is unforeseeable right now due to Guild Wars 2: ArenaNet's primary project. With that, this speculation of yours has nothing to do with the post.

I don't need to say anything to new players in order for them to see how stagnant this game has become, and mind you, I say this neutrally. Guild Wars 1 is how it was created. We see the effects of ArenaNet's actions and inactions, and clearly, the game's dispersing population is due to its age and by its company.

I truly, with all my heart, believe that Guild Wars 1 should be supported by ArenaNet until they believe it is time for it to die. And given by what the population is like, and possible figures, it would be best to leave an extraordinary content out of this game due to how small the population has become. They've had an influx of players throughout this game's duration but even now has it started to reach new levels of small.

Another thing I noticed in what you said was "so GW dying money-wise? nah, just community-wise ATM" which interests me how you came to such a conclusion. Games generate money by their community which consists of nothing but customers. If the game is dying community wise then why is it, in your rationale, that money itself is dying. If customers are leaving, and by extension not giving money, then how are they able to sustain GW profit-wise? In my opinion, the drop in money they generate is an indicator for the stagnation of their community. Who else would give them money for their game but their community?


The biggest flaw in your argument is that you're comparing apples to oranges on a video game level. People do like to have fun, of course, and I myself love to go back and play the games when I was young, but you have to understand this: Guild Wars is a persistent profit driven game. It is an MMO game that has to be paid for to keep up as time goes by. The games you mentioned are not like this whatsoever. Once you buy the games that you listed, you have them forever. They were produced and require no other way of spending to play. You can load it onto your computer and have fun. Guild Wars on the hand is not like this. It's hosted on a server that once its turned off (and this goes for every other game which is online only) it is finally finished. Guild Wars is essentially finished and because people are leaving (which is self-evident) that money which keeps Guild Wars running is also leaving. The Live Team is focusing it's resources for other purposes which could be endless, and it is secondary to the stagnation of the game's population. Less people also brings less care. They will go where they are most needed and Guild Wars has reached this point in its life. But, as I said earlier, who knows why the Live Team is exactly shifted to Guild Wars 2. Whatever the reason is, I full-heartily believe it is for something positive.

I believe that there is something a tad wrong with this. What is the point in trying to see a company fulfill an update that they predicted they could do. I'm still bummed that they never brought the update to HA but I don't hawk over them for it. I moved on to something else. In a perfect world, they would have been able to update the game the way the wanted to, but really, their priorities shifted towards their new model, Guild Wars 2, because it's been in production for 5 years which is a major strain (let alone maintaining a stagnating game with micro-transactions) on their product. They need to produce this game now or they will no longer be able to exist as a company. All this money has been put into Guild Wars 2 and now it needs to pay off. It's what I believe to be true because there is almost no other rational reason to believe that they are alienating their game. This game is losing players and because of this stage in declination, it would be better for them to "support" (note: essentially keep the server up) this game rather than develop more content for Guild Wars 1.

Guildwars, as it stands right now, is perfectly playable. There aren't any drastic issues that require a Live Teams immediate attention. Last time I checked, Anet did not promise to keep a Live Team working on GW, they promised to keep GW online. Well, I dunno about the rest of you, but I can still login (barring the 004 error).

Yeah, boohoo, no ranger update (and as a primary fricking ranger on 50/50 and 1 title from GWAMM, I feel that pain more than 90% of the people bitching about it, so you can frankly suck it...), no Elona WoC equivalent, no... no....no....no shit. Gravy train ends somewhere people, and it's been 4 years since the last expansion. With all sincerity, wrap your delusional little minds around that fact.... then you'll realize that a temporary reassignment of the Live Team is, frankly, a goddamn motherfrakking miracle.

Bluntly, if the ability to pre-purchase Gw2 doesn't tell you something about Anet's financial state, you're a blithering idiot. That, or I've read too much into it.... but I don't think so, which is why I bought my copy of Digital Deluxe GW2 this morning on the website.

As one of the players who bought GW1 when it was first released and have played it for 7 years without stopping, this is my impression of the game.

It seems better to join the game later. Firstly, most of the major bugs would have been fixed by then. Second, more features would have been added by then.

If GW1 is any indication, GW2 would probably be designed in a way that benefits newer characters than older characters. Among other things, an example would be LDoA, which older characters have been permanently excluded from participating due to the feature being added much later after release. So I think I should be able to get a better deal this time, if I wait before moving to GW2.

As for the Live Team moving to GW2, no surprise there. I have been anticipating this move for a long time, and I am sure many of you do too. But if you want the BEST deal for your money, you should wait because later is when the game would be the most polished and have the most features. Furthermore, some of these newly added features may end up being excluded from your older characters, if GW1 is any indication.

^The only reason LDoA was not there for GWs release was because of the fact that it was only obtainable by exploiting the system. Of course they wouldn't have an achievement for an exploit.

They added it later because they wanted to reward perma-pre characters, since the exploit became quite big.

...and therefore they created an achievement for an exploit since then called LDoA. It is only a long time later that they added the vanguard quests so you can get LDoA without using the exploits.

Unfortunately, the older characters cannot gain that title anymore once they have left pre-searing even after the exploit was made public, going back to pre-searing was impossible. The older characters were therefore permanently excluded from the vanguard quests and the LDoA title. Survivor was similar for a long time too but at least that was fixed recently.

Therefore in GW2 I believe the newer characters may have special privileges compared to the older characters based on what we know about GW1. We don't know what these future features would be but I bet newer characters have a higher chance of gaining access to them than the older characters. For example, something would be too grindy like LDoA, people start to complain, then ANet would add features to make it more obtainable (e.g. the vanguard quests) which the newer characters can benefit from while the older characters have already done it the hard way or are excluded. Such a pattern would repeat itself in GW2.

You really think ArenaNet havent learned anything?

If i joined later, I would not have had HoD sword and opportunity to sell it before factions release.

Ditto for wintergreen spear (whoa, more than stack of ectoes?).

I would not have made tons of plat by farming ettins (griffons, trolls, tengu...).

I woild not be able to particiapte in early runs through elite areas and reap rewards of having fresh desirable stuff that can be sold for stack of ectoes. (I miss you, r8 15^50 zodiac daggers)

Etc ... it cuts both ways. Raw game has also its opportunities. Early adopters are both blessed and cursed.

Yes, at some point in time you do indeed stop feeding your first kid. And you quit rearranging the furniture in your first restaurant. And yes, usually when I buy a new car I trash the old one.

Many of you don't want to hear it, but products like GW have life cycles, and it is already late in the life cycle of GW1.

If they have, they wouldn't have repeated this practice so many times in GW1. Their priority has always been to "fix the game" so that new characters wouldn't experience such pains. But to fix the current affected characters is a lower priority, if the new feature is not an absolute necessity in the game.

The HoD sword became just a sucky sword through a later feature called the "I have the Power" inscription for the sake of new Nightfall characters. Wintergreen stuff are not freely available to all old characters, it has always been exclusive besides they suck anyway. Farming more just means you worked more, sounds fair to me.

The LDoA that was earned in the past before the vanguard quests, however, was earned through a much greater effort and time than it is now. But the title does not distinguish between the 2 methods of earning it. With the large amount of time saved through vanguard quests, newer characters can farm more and get more gold or earn their GWAMM in a shorter amount of time.

Yeah, but the counterpoint to that is things like the once expolitable Hearts of the Shiverpeaks, the free chests in early GW that dropped crystalline swords etc... Seriously, in any MMORGP, early adoption is always a massive bonus.

You do realise HoM is account based too, right? So while it's annoying you can't do LDOA for GWAMM on an older char, you can do it for 50/50 towards HoM.

Of course games (particularly online ones) have life cycles. The point that has been made by some in this thread is that its not time for GW1's life cycle to end. There are other online games that have been going for much longer than GW1, and GW1's sequel isn't even out yet? Why should its life cycle come to an end this soon? I would like for them to wait till after the sequel comes out at the earliest to begin the end of GW1's life cycle.

You can still obtain crystalline swords today. You can say that there were previous bugs/exploits that SOME players have encountered in the past but those have been quickly closed and they are certainly not ANet's intentions.

Ask yourself, if 50/50 HoM is all that suffice, why are there so many people after the GWAMM title? Obviously many players still prefer to be called a god themselves than just be a Champion of the gods right?

Overall, the newer characters benefit more from the newer features than the older characters which have to rely on short-term bugs and exploits. If these exploits turn out to be too advantageous, players will whine to ANet and ANet may do something about it (e.g. deleting said items from inventories).

Also, the 'sequel' has only the bare minimum in common with the original. This has more in common with, say, Blizzard cutting off support for Diablo 2 because they were releasing World of Warcraft.

and now we get constant err007 and err040

Ill be honest I hate that they are taking what little support they have away from GW1, but this is nothing like that at all. Guild Wars 2 is still considered a sequel to gw1, and plus you can't think of Anet(NCSoft) and Blizzard as the same type of company since Blizzard continues to make a ton of money every year with subscription games, while a type of game like GW1 loses profits much quicker.

It was a good comparison because GW2 is nothing like Guild Wars 1. The only thing they have in common is lore. The gameplay and feeling of the worlds are completely different. Just like Diablo 2 and Warcraft are two completely different games. Having the same name doesn't make them similar.

The point is, not everyone who enjoyed Guild Wars will like Guild Wars 2. Guild Wars 2 isn't just an updated version of Guild Wars. It is a whole different animal with an entirely different feel to it.

I know its been said earlier...if GW2 crashes and burns...all live team back to GW1?

Yup & their first release will be GW Utopia :P

Diablo II doesn't get any new content. It's just getting support from Blizzard.

Same with GW1. It's not getting discontinued anytime soon but will just receive support from now on, which was frankly to be expected.

Of course if it was just an updated version of GW1, there would be no point in a sequel. They could just keep releasing campaigns. But with a better engine comes new ambitions.

Their main philosophy didn't change. GW and GW2 are both games with the purpose to innovate and differentiate from other MMOs, and try to stand at their own by what they are, not by cloning WoW or whatever other successfull models.

If we think about it, GW2 takes a LOT from GW1, when we talk about successful mechanics. Story-driven instances, which the sequel improves upon with personal story customisation. High-game items being mostly cosmetic. A more chaotic, fast-paced battle system where mobility and position are vital, where the trinity tank-dps-heal roles are more ambiguous, and GW2 even completely removes the trinity, and further improves the movement/ terrain position aspects of the batte. Etc.

But then, many of the things that GW2 does differently are an indirect result to many of GW1's "problems", like the removal of secondary professions for much better balance, or the categorized skills in opposition to the original's free-for-all 8 skill slots. GW1 gives the illusion that the build possibilities are countless, but ultimately its all about finding the best 8 synergies and clumping them together (or abusing hidden, broken synergies among countless skills). That's why no matter how much balancing Anet does, or even how many good unused skills exist, the builds are restricted to a few half-dozen at max per profession. Meanwhile, while GW2 gives the illusion of being more restricted in build-crafting, truth is, all weapon skillsets are builds especifically designed to have ambiguous roles, be synergic and be fun (unlike many cookie-cutter builds created by the GW1's fanbase), they are easier to balance (you can just buff/ nerf their skills without indirectly ruining or breaking other builds), which makes it possible for them all to be equally viable, and utility skills and traits offer countless possibilities that give a personality to your build, enhancing it, taking it into different directions, adding new stuff to into it, that make your builds personal, yet do now allow you to take it too far from what's already "pre-set" and breaking the game.

What else greatly differs between GW1 and GW2? The mapping system. Because although instances proved to be great means to tell a story for missions/ dungeons/ personalized areas, they are not needed for normal world exploration. So they were taken out, and instead we got a seamless world full of dynamic events, so we lost one "unnecessary" mechanic, and won one of the biggest seller mechanics.

In the end, I think the people who will prefer GW1 over GW2 will be a very small minority. Mostly people who absolutely love with all their hearts making the most broken hero party combinations (and GW1 wasn't even about this before nightfall), or the most broken builds, and use them to steamroll through explorable areas devoid of interaction with other players. What else does GW1 do better than the sequel?

Not really, my point of contention was your statement that players trying to hold on to GW1 are being foolish. The fact that it is an on-line game is immaterial in that respect as us fools are playing something that gives us enjoyment, so like all those other things I mentioned, we want to keep the enjoyment going for as long as possible. That's one of the reasons why I stayed away from on-line only games for so long - when I spend my money on a game that I turn out to really enjoy, I want to make sure that enjoyment can last for as long as my will to play does.

I certainly don't disagree with you on your other points, that it would be foolish indeed to keep the game going if it adversely affects the ability to effectively manage their new game. We all have certainly gotten more than our money's worth for GW, and it will be a shame to see it go, whenever that day comes. But that's no reason that we can't hope that day is long, long into the future (or avoided entirely by Anet making the surprise move of creating GW1 as a fully functional off-line game!!).

Well, you can count me in that small minority. I don't think I can make a comparison list of what GW1 does better, especially since I am one of the unlucky ones not to have been able to playtest the game at this point (but the fact that you can only participate in Betas by pre-ordering is my newest reason). All I can say is that I started playing GW despite my reluctance to spend money on an on-line multi-player game, because of the experience and features it offered. Those of which included the ability to play a party-based RPG as opposed to the myriad of "Lone Hero" RPGs that the genre turned to after those early games I mentioned in my earlier post faded away. And part of that ability included a way to form a party with NPCs, so I could choose to play the way I wanted to in a pace that I was comfortable with. I also enjoyed the game for it's ability to be able to walk away and come back later without missing anything (aside from the festivals, of course). Those are features that are no longer present in GW2, and some of the additions - such as technology, are things that I don't enjoy in my Swords and Magic RPGs. I just don't find GW2's feature-set as innovative for the time as GW1 was 7 years ago. Much of what GW2 will offer can be found in many other games out now and coming out within the next year and beyond, so there is nothing about GW2 that is compelling me to choose it over any of the other offerings outside of name (and festival events), only.

Hanok

I, too, shall be part of that minority....everything I enjoy about gw1 has been removed from gw2 (as well as other reasons I wont be capable of playing gw2).

I would hope that 'support' doesnt turn into 'shut down' since we know that anet tells us one thing and has done something else on numerous occasions. We have already seen a lack of 'support' recently (did anyone see the ingame announcement of the sweet treat weekend?). as well as the slowness of updates.

I could not disagree with this more.

The reason I was drawn to Guild Wars in the first place was that it was a very ambitious game. They were trying a whole bunch of new things, from the totally open skill system to a free-to-play persistent world to a heavy PvP emphasis pervading the entire game. There are artifacts of a whole bunch of tried and failed experiments in the game, and the mechanics are really a disaster zone of shoving everything in they thought might be cool and just hoping it somehow turned out.

Guild Wars 2 is not like that at all.

Guild Wars 2 is an effort to create a free to play MMO with good production values and a low barrier of entry.

I think they'll be very successful at that. The game is phenomenally pretty, and very easy to play. It has some cool themes, and it's free to play. It'll sell millions of copies.

But it's nothing like the ambitious project that was GW1 - the game where they could only hope to accomplish 10% of what they set out to do. GW2 is a game where they put pretty graphics on Warhammer Online, made it free to play, and called it a day. A shrewd business plan? Possibly. But certainly nothing to revolutionize the way we think about games.

Just to clarify Hanok, pre-purchase isn't the only way to play in the beta's, it's the only way to guarantee you can play in the betas. People who applied for the previous betas may be invited to play in these later ones (I'm guessing it depends on how many people pre-purchase)

Just to clarify, people get confused between free to play and pay to play. f2p model requires you to buy absolutely nothing, that's where the free comes from. gw and gw2 are obviously p2p.

you still gotta buy the game, just has no monthly fee.

free to play you just download the game and start playing, but you usually have a big disadvantage with players that buy "perks" or game money, until you too start buying the perks and stuff.

No, GW and GW2 is not P2P. It is P2B. Pay to Buy

If GW2 isn't an extremely ambitious game as well, I don't know what it is.

But why should GW2 be a "disaster zone of failed experiments"? It's a sequel, it's expected to take the best things out of GW1, and leave the bad things. And that's what mostly happened out. The only great mechanics that GW2 isn't taking from the original is probably the henchmen/ hero system, which is justified in the context of the new mechanics.

What you're describing is a free-to-play WoW, which GW2 is nothing alike.

There's a lot of selling points you're ignoring. Here's a few out of my mind:
-World versus World, which is basically a high-scale production of Alliance Battles/ Jade Quarry/ Fort Aspenwood;
-A casual competitive PvP format that puts Random Arenas to shame;
-A customisable personaly story system in addition to the main narrative, that makes the whole storytelling experience stronger than in the original;
-An online world that is constantly changing, through cycling chains of dynamic events everywhere, with seamless party mechanics, seamless "traditional" quests, seamless rewards, interactive environments, and the like;
-A revolutionary MMORPG combat system that removes the class role specification, the static nature of MMO battles, and the over-reliance on checking health/ energy bars, for a more visceral, chaotic, fast-paced, seamless experience.

Outside of the hero/ henchmen configuration, GW2 makes the original game look like a prototype for what is to come.

GW2 = B2P = Buy To Play (thats how i know it)

but about the live team, i still ahvent seen a single post of Anet saying they wont add new stuff like the new "upcoming" content for elona, just that it wont come anytime soon

stumme did post something saying that it might come later when they have the time and resources

so GW may be frozen with newer (big) stuff for a while, maybe a long while, but GW still gets new players and has enough people who still will play it after GW2 release
so GW will get them money, and it would be stupid to put an older yet still working moneycatcher down, right?

so the more they get from GW2 (money yes), the more they can give us in GW