The Perversion of Guild Wars

When I started this game, I was entranced. I loved the ideas the game was built on, the constant exposure to different builds and different methods of play was wonderful, it allowed me to stay open minded, and to expand my knowledge. I continued through the game with my first character, doing almost everything, there was always something new to strive for. Even after beating the game and becoming level twenty, I worked towards building great PvP builds and the like. I really liked this game.
Looking back on those days are now the same as a man in an unhappy marriage thinking back to the love-filled days of his youth. Now when I play, I find people looking for the newest way to exploit the game, the newest way to farm x, the best build for soloing y. This isn’t what you’re supposed to do. Areanet tries to stop people from doing this. It’s the moment that you start playing the game only to gain gold that it loses its innocence. Id bet every one of you can remember the first time you got to a new area with your first character, and you couldn’t wait to get all the new skills and fight all the cool new enemies. Now what do you think when you get to maguuma jungle with your 3rd or 4th character? It’s only a hassle to go through the game. And why are you making this character? I would bet that at least five times out of ten these characters are created so that someone can use them to farm gold better.
Doing the same run over and over again isn’t fun, in my opinion at least. Killing the same enemies, trying for the same loot, and when you get it, you go and sell it. What is gained? Money. Anything else? Well experience, but otherwise nothing. I don’t want to do these things. I want to play the game like I played it before. I want innocence. I want there to be no 55 monks. I want the level 20-28 enemies to be able to kill any groups with less than 4 people. I want people to not exploit the game. I want people to play it for what it is. But what I want will never happen. There will always be holes in the game; there will always be differences in the characters. There will always be opportunities for players to exploit the game. The people won’t change, its human nature to act like this. So what can I do? I don’t know. I just don’t know. I want the old game back, I want my innocence back.

Just ignore all the "exploiters" and problem solved.

Well said.

You cant solve a problem by ignoring it. Its because of people farming places that the drops are so bad.

Yes you can, because it doesn't affect you how other people play the game.

The drops are bad because Anet chose to make them bad. There would have been way better solutions to deal with overfarming then nerfing drop rates, but Anet chose the dumbest one. That's Anet's fault, not the farmers.

well I kinda have finishd the game, everything unlocked, all quests etc... there are no new areas for me, no new skills,...

Everybody is just getting rdy for factions, some ppl kill their time by farming (I don't have anything against it, I am just against 55 monk builds, its not normal that 1 person can kill so easily... there will allways be builds for solo playing but it shouldn't be so easy) others by PvP-ing

Don't forget when factions is out all that what you've said will come back, new areas... new missions... the love will come back, the joy...

*looking forward to factions*

That post is very contradicting when one read it, I suggest being more specific on who and which you are refering to.
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Anyway, people who simply ignore the problem in the game are people who simply do not wish a better future for the game.

Although Anet show support about fan discussion, us fans' influence are still very limited. Therefore, the only people who have the power to make a better future for the game, are still Anet.

So in this way, it is best to just ignore it as a fan. Powerless frustration aren't good for one's health. If you can't do anything about it, the ignoring will be the only road down.

Power come from determination. If you are determined for a change, ralley couple hundred/thousand of people to unite in one focus, no one will be able to overlook you then. Are you willing to go that far?

For me, I rather just try to enjoy the game... Playing politic even in game is a sickening thought for me. I will (and still am) just ignore all these "perversions".

Yeah.. I still remember the first day when I got it, and manage to find myself to Sardelic Sanitarium, it was like "wow.. another outpost!! mysterious!" and when I look at the map, the uncovered portion is so tiny compared to what I've uncovered so far.

But fact is Anet did make some lame design decisions along the way.

Case in point, the quests "Dropping eaves" and "Blood and smoke".

Even if you are doing it for the first time you'd undoubtedly be pissed of. The whole idea of zoning SUCKS. Period. So why is it that I go out, kill all the mobs through so many zones, come back to talk to some moron and listen to his grandmother's sob story, go out again and have to go through the same gruel?

It's just not right. Anet should make it remember instances for parties or something, such that when you zone through the previous instance is still kept somewhere in memory until your party formation is disbanded.

It's more computational expensive, but hey, it is only far.. and a far more realistic experience.

all i gotta say is ... i payed my £24.99 for this game and i'm not breaking the EULA so i'll play how the hell i want

Trying to clarify:

I was referring to the OP who sounded like people who are playing GW in a way he doesn't like/accept are bothering him so much that he was no longer having fun playing the game.

I mean, why should anyone bother how other people play the game. For instance, I hate it when people let themselves get run through the game. I personally think paying other people for getting run through the game is about as lame as it gets. But on the other hand - does it really concern me, when people do what I think is no better than cheating? Not really. I still can and do play GW they way I see fit. I am still having tremendous fun playing the game. I do however, acknowledge that other people might have fun playing GW in other ways I do.

Yes, the nerfing of drop rates Anet loves to do so much to combat farming DOES affect other people (it does affect me, too). I was just saying that the farmers aren't responsible for Anet taking the dumbest action possible to address that problem. Farming it and and by itself is a legit way to play GW, just as running is. If Anet wouldn't be so trigger happy with the drop rates, nobody would have a problem with that...

i agree with the OP.

My opinion; Some find fun in grouping, others soloing, Arenanet has no business forcing anyone to play the way they "Arenanet" wants them to play (yet they try). We all paid for the game and we all should have the right to play the game in the way that brings us the most enjoyment.

I play GW to be challenged. Clearing a high-level area with a full party isn't a challenge - clearing it by myself is. Is this an illegitimate way to enjoy the game? Most people have no idea who I am or what I do in GW, so how does my soloing affect them? Furthermore, why should I stop playing in this way?

Completly agree here, besides for the most part, the best money is made 2 man farming anyways (farming anyways, runners make the best £)

There is a difference in playing a solo build and clearing an area while you have a hardtime, because all these mobs are lvl 20+ (so you should have a hard time) or clearing a really difficult area with a build thats way to overpowered so its as easy as eating a cookie.

Again I don't have a problem with solo players, I do it to, but I have a problem with builds who are to powerfull to do this.

Yeah. It's ironic that a game which is _not at all_ about loot is viewed by many, if not most, of the players as being 110% about loot. Most threads and most complaints are about farming.

Basically, people love grind. When there isn't any grind in a game, they invent it.

I can't explain it any other way.

What saddens me is when jaded & experienced players ruin the experience of new players by running them from A to B, by doing missions for them, by twinking them, by teaching them every trick and shortcut so they can get through the game as quickly as possible and get started with the real game: FARMING!

They're not helping the newbies, they're spoiling the game for them, but what can you do?

Your innocense, like mine, is forever lost. All you can do is not ruin the innocense of new players. And the way to do that is by helping the enough so that they don't inadvertently ruin their own gaming experience (by e.g. running or joining a PvP guild when they're PvE players), but not helping them too much.

I don't see how it could POSSIBLY bother you that there are ten thousand instances of the Underworld right now with only two people in them.

How does this affect you in the slightest?

HAHA! Yes! This is quite possibly the only game devoid of any required grinding, and people still grind for insane amounts of gold and equipment that nobody really needs!


This is why I never did and won't ever do runs. It's one thing to run your second, third, or fourth character in order to speed up your pace and skip all the stuff you already did.

But when you start running people on their first character, I just have to draw the line. Thats no fun for anyone. The newbie misses out on the game, and people in high level zones have to deal with inexperienced players who still don't know what the hell salvage kits are for, much less how to play their own class or any other.

Prime example was this one time I was in THK. Since I've done everything there is to do, I sometimes go there with my monk to help hardluck groups when bored. Well, these geniuses wanted to replace my monk with an E/Mo, because they said the Elems larger mana pool made him a better healer. I say "Divine Favor anyone?" only to get a lot of "WTF is Divine Favor?" responses. I explain, and they decide to keep us both "for backup".

Already suspecting blatant stupidity in our midsts I then ask if everybody is infused. And you guessed it "WTF is infused?". How the hell do you get to THK without knowing how a proper monk works and never having heard of infusion? Why being run there of course! Three out of the eight in my team admitted to have been run, and I still suspect two more were as well.

My friend and I left when they unanimously agreed that infusion wasn't necesary to beat the mission. Because "the enemies still hit you just as hard" and you "only really need it at the end".

Krist!

Crazy Diamond, I know where your coming from.

A while back I had to explain to a lvl20 guy (somewhere in the mountians, I forget exactly where) how to use his Map function. I am not lieing.

But that isn't the worst part of it.

I explained to him that when you press "M", you can see the map. Of course, he was like "Whao! Thats sweet!" About half a minute later, he suddenl;y leaves the party without warning. I whispered him to ask where he went, and he replied with something to the eeffect of, "OMG! My map is hax! Its big glitch! I clicked Ascalon to zoom in, and suddenly I went there! WTF!!!!!" Of course, I had to onder if this guy was serious. But nevertheless, I began typing a message about how that's what is supposed to happen when you click a town. He took a moment to reply, and then said "STFU NUB!!!" and put me on ignore.

I promise this is a 100% true story, as unbelievable as it is. This is a perfect example of how runners wreck the game for new players. That guy hadn't the faintest clue about one of the most basic features.



On the subject of farming, the easiest way to put a complete halt on all farming is to equip all of the most commonly farmed monsters in the game with this skill, that will only be used when the human party is 3 or less:

Rend Farmers
Monster-Only Skill
If opposing party has 4 or less people, then this skill becomes activated. All enchanments and stances are removed from target foe, and all foe's allies. Target foe, and all foe's allies are knocked down for 8 seconds. Target foe and all foe's allies suffer 12 health degeneration, and recieve 100 damage per second for 10 seconds.

If every monster carried something like that, farming would be completely wiped out.

I realize that this is very extreme, and will never happen, I was just throwing it out there.

I can see the OP's point, however, I lean more toward the idea of, "play the game your way, let others play theirs." We ALL paid for the game. If a 55 monk is farming Augry Rock, it's not affecting my game in the slightest, so why should I care?

If the general consensus here is that farming affects drops and the GW economy, yeah maybe. But regardless of what game you are playing, if there's an economy, something will affect it that is out of your control...soloists or not. If the basic argument is that it is harder to find a group so that you can play the way YOU wish too, maybe it's because people are just bored with the same missions, the same quests, the same PVP maps. There's nothing that can be done about that until Factions is released. I have watched the communities in other games I play turn into the exact same thing, slowly dwindling. But with the release of an expansion or new addition, lo and behold they all suddenly appear again, ready to play.

I agree. There's nothing wrong with either farming or soloing; in fact, if I couldn't solo I'd never have got the game. The problem is when you impose your own jadedness on new gamers. You find the "red cloaked deserter" boring beyond words because you've done it four times before, and spoil it for the guy doing it the first time. THAT is bad.

Factions will help a bit, but from experience I already know that half the beta testers only joined beta testing to be able to dominate & impress on release, and all the highly competitive will have completed it within a week anyway - and all of them will be aching to impress the newbies with their godly knowledge of every exploit and optimal way to beat/run the content.

As for me, I'll play factions solo or with guildmates, just like I have the first chapter, and it'll hopefully take me many months to reach the level of boredom and jadedness the beta players and the uberly competitive will achieve the first week.

I wish people would stop complaining about farming. You don't like it? Fine, don't f*cking farm. I farm all the time. I've done every mission, been everywhere. To me, farming is like playing the lottery - I may get some incredible prize, even though the chances suck like hell.

Without farming, how much do you think runes at the rune trader would cost? How much would dye be up to? Not to mention ecto & shards.

The only legit complaint I can see is the overabundance of 55 monks, but really, if you are teaming up with a 55 monk (knowingly or unknowingly), chances are you are going to the UW/FoW. Hoping to get an ecto/shard, or perhaps some eternal stuff, or a storm bow? Guess what, if that's why you went down there - you are farming.

If you want something in this game, something specific, I don't see any way to get it besides farm for it. Your options are a) farm the area the item is rumored to drop in, hoping for the best; or b) farm enough platinum up to be able to buy the item; or of course c) tough titty, I didn't get one, just do without.

Every day I play, I get all kinds of loot that isn't max, but otherwise is very nice. Maybe a gold rod, 11-21 damage, with some mods, or any other item just a bit below everyone's "gotta be p3rf3ct" expectations. You know what I do? I go find some guildless newb in Ascalon City or any of those low-level areas, and I give it to them. Every day. It always cracks me up when the newb acts suspicious, asking me "Why is it free?". I tell them the truth: I farm a lot, and if I didn't give this to you, I would have either sold it to the merchant or salvaged it. I figured you may actually get some use out of it.

*sigh* another rant thread...

If you have done everything the game offers, and you know every area/mission/quest like the back of your hand, what else is there to do? PvP? Sure, thats all nice and stuff but what happens when that gets boring? Its not like a new build is developed every week. Farming is the only thing left to do other than helping friends/guildies.

Just restating what other people have said, why do you care about farming when it doesnt really affect you? You all think that the people who grind 24/7 has super powerful equipment that'll pwn you. But think back to that review you read b4 buying the game. Wasnt there something about "skill is more important than equipment?" I'm gonna tell you right now that the few extra dmg points from a 15>50 weapon will not make missions, quests, or pvp easier by a noticeable amount. People farm because they strive to have the best stuff possible. You cant blame them for that.

Same with me and the game Gunz. Even though I didn't used to be that good at it, I used to enjoy everygame, not because I was getting kill after kill, but because I just loved playing the game. Now its if I get enough kills or if I mess up when I shouldn't, etc.

Kinda reminds me of the matrix movie: Ignorance is Bliss. ^_^

So basically, what you're saying is groups that use proper aggro, and good builds and tactics to kill places such as fissure with <5 people should be disallowed, and you consider this 'human nature' of exploiting? What the hell are you on?

The OP is complaining that people find ways to optimize their skill set, and labels it exploiting? I got news for you, some people enjoy it just for the fun of playing a smaller group (like playing Intentionally-Underpowered-Builds in diabloII), and others enjoy the 'exploit' of 55 hp farming or whatnot.

So basically you want everyone better than you in PvE to be nerfed? Blech, this thread is traumatizing.

In closing, I play 3man FoW runs, 2 man smite runs, pug 8 man runs of either, and I enjoy all forms of this. Why is what I consider fun less important than you wanting to be a reactionary?

I found a way to get some of the innocence back. I recently got a friend to purchase the game, and I created a new character to adventure with him. The trick is, I answer all his questions and give him good advice, but he leads everywhere. Even if I know he's going the 'wrong' way. Playing the old quests through someone else's eyes has been really fun.

Just an idea.

What saddens me is when jaded & experienced players ruin the experience of new players by running them from A to B, by doing missions for them, by twinking them, by teaching them every trick and shortcut so they can get through the game as quickly as possible and get started with the real game: FARMING!""

Likewise.

If you've ever gone back and played through the missions on a new character, the mentality of the older players is frustrating. It's a WTF WTF HURRY SKIP mentality. There's no sense of exploration or anything.

Whenever I do Glint's Lair for the first time, I try (in vain) to keep it a newb-only party, if only because EVERY TIME I've asked vets to NOT SPOIL IT, they always SPOIL IT.

The fix?

New content. ;D

Just noticed this post.

I did the same thing, too.

Also because, in a sense, I had to. My friend was new--and, being new, was slow, and regular parties normally booted us because she took to long to switch skills and stuff.

Oh god, that is priceless. And I believe you! Because it reminded me of another gem.

One of the last times I did Ring of Fire for one of my characters. Now normally I just do all three missions in one night with a group. By the time we got to Hells Precipice one of our warriors says he wants to respec his skills, so we give him a few minutes. After a bit he asks(I shit you not!) "How does adrenaline work?".

Of course we all though he was kidding. Until we went into the mission and he starts complaining that none of his adrenaline skills will light up.

So there you have it. A warrior, in Hells Precipice, who had no idea how adrenaline worked. One of the very first thing warriors are taught in pre-sear(you can't miss it if you pick up any axe, sword, or hammer skill), and this man somehow plowed through the game without ever learning about it.


Uh, no, that isn't farming. Thats getting myself one item or weapon I want. It's something I intend to keep.

Farming is hoarding as many items. runes, etc. as possible so that I can sell them for a profit. Amassing large quantities of a certain product, far more than you'll ever need, so that you may distribute it to other people for a fee. You know, kind of like that thing people in the country do in real life. What's it called.. oh yeah! Farming.

"Farming" was invented by early people not to reap big profits but to grow food for their own needs. Your definition is wrong.

So, just because people now sell their produce it is no longer farming? News to me! You need to tell all them farmers that what they are doing is no longer farming. They need to come up with a new name.

I suggest they now call it Produce Pushing. Then they could call themselves Produce Pushers! I think its catchy.

Produce Pushing, Produce Pushing Produce Pushing, PP

PP !! your a PP-er sounds good to me lol

Lets don't start a topic what farming really means, lets just talk about what was first

the chicken or the egg??

Whatever your intent with the item, you went down there not to do missions or gain XP, but to kill monsters until you found an item. That is farming.

No, that is hoarding, and there is a difference. You can farm without hoarding, and you can hoard without farming.

The chicken of course!


There is a huge difference between someone wanting to get a Eternal Shield or Sup Vigor Rune for their warrior, and someone re-doing the thing over and over to amass enough Eternal Shields and Sup Runes to sell to other people.

To the former, the object in question is their prize. For a farmer, the object in question is not their prize, but a means to it.


No, hoarding would imply that one keep all the things they get. If you're getting all that in order to sell it, then it can't possibly be hoarding, because hoarding excludes the possibility of said items leaving your grasp.

I'm confused, i thought farming had something to do with corn and John Deer Tractors, i dont think theres any John Deer Tractors in the game

I'm also pretty sure that the Green Giant has something to do with it.

/Nods

I'm very sorry to all of you that I have spent time learning how the skills interact with each other and am now capable of doing things that you could easily do if you tried to become better players rather than bitch about someone else is better than you

If I should choose to play with others I will do so and if I choose to play alone I can do that as well. Not really sure how that effects any of you and how you play the game but just because someone has spent more time then you learning how to be good in a game that was designed about the "skill" of the player and not time spent leveling and getting uber weapons

There's going to be things about any game of this nature that people won't like.

I see nothing wrong with farming. Want that FoW armor? You've got 2 choices - farm for the materials / gold you need to get it, or sit around in Droks, ToA, or somewhere else begging (ugh)! Besides, if you've got materials that you can sell to people for a lower price than the traders charge for them, you're providing a service that helps someone else each and every time you make a sale!

As for running people through the story-line game, I hate it. A level 20 "helping" just anyone through the Fort Ranik mission is not helping them at all. It's "doing it for them." (I can solo Ft. Ranik mission and bonus, killing everything by hand in 20 minutes!) Even someone who's been through the game with a couple of other characters still needs to grind out those missions to sharpen their skill in thier new profession. If you REALLY want to help people with missions, go to THK and help with that! IMHO, there needs to be an avalance in Lornar's pass to close that off.

That's not to say that I think ALL running should be done away with. Being ran to non-storyline places, like ToA, Port Sledge, etc. is something I have no problem with. Running people to the desert towns is also OK by me, because fighting you're way to each of those places is just grind, grind grind. I'm not talking about being ran through the desert missions, mind you, just being ran to the mission areas.

Ok, I guess I miss the problem... do these things... don't farm... don't kill the same monsters over and over again, but DON'T tell others what to do.. what isn't fun for you might be fun for someone else..

How is it an "exploit" because level 28 enemys can't kill a 4 man team?

They didn;t exploit the game, they OMG just leared how to use their skills, you might want to do the same.. learn how to use your skills you might get into one of these 4 man teams.


I hate how all you people who don't want to "farm" try and tell everyone else how to play the game, if you like doing all the missions make a new character and do it... start a guild of people like you.... do something don't just complain on GW Guru.. this is pointless..

Well said ^ ^, you have some good point's but there are some hole's in your logic, Like most people we "Farm" but do not "Exploit" like he is trying to state I want that innocence back, but the truth is that innocence is temporary, like the first time you see that fissure armor, you think I'm going to do anything to get that armor! I'm not saying all players do this but a majority of them do this.

And to accuse him of ding wrong and flaming at him is also wrong, I can see where he is coming from with this. The fact is after you beat the game the innocence leaves and never comes back =(