Mesmer Are Truly Undervalued.
NinjaKai
Now this isn't some silly rant or protest. Such would be a waste of time. I'm mere curious why are mesmers so undervalued as a profession. I mean on many occasions I have been substituted for an elementalist or necro or some other person.Finding a group to go into the FoW or UW with a mesmer is task all it's own these days. And I just keep wondering what is wrong with mesmers?
jciardha
Simple: people don't want to take risks and "think outside the box."
Mesmers are "outside the box" incarnate. All the other classes fit a classic fantasy RPG stereotype, easily. Mesmers generally do not.
(Then again, it could have something to do with those froofy pink magic sparkles.
)
Mesmers are "outside the box" incarnate. All the other classes fit a classic fantasy RPG stereotype, easily. Mesmers generally do not.
(Then again, it could have something to do with those froofy pink magic sparkles.

NinjaKai
Quote:
Originally Posted by jciardha
Simple: people don't want to take risks and "think outside the box."
Mesmers are "outside the box" incarnate. All the other classes fit a classic fantasy RPG stereotype, easily. Mesmers generally do not.
(Then again, it could have something to do with those froofy pink magic sparkles.
)
It is rather annoying. I've taken down plenty of high level monsters by myself. Even those pain in the ass monk ones. But no people seem more interested in the other professions. I mean in a mission area or something your bound to find a varied range of monsters that are hard kills that mesmers can atleast make slightly easier.
(They can't stand that mesmer spells are more sparkly than them. XD)
Mesmers are "outside the box" incarnate. All the other classes fit a classic fantasy RPG stereotype, easily. Mesmers generally do not.
(Then again, it could have something to do with those froofy pink magic sparkles.

(They can't stand that mesmer spells are more sparkly than them. XD)
Corinthian
Mesmers do not do visible damage. A monk boss falling quickly cannot possibly be because of a mesmer, but an exceptionally talented warrior and his nuker friend.
Silvergun Superman
There's nothing wrong with mesmers. Some people are just ignorant and undervalue the abilities and advantages that a mesmer can do for a group.
A Leprechaun
does a nuker want to try disrupting in HoH i dont think so!?!
mesmers kick arse
mesmers kick arse
NinjaKai
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corinthian
Mesmers do not do visible damage. A monk boss falling quickly cannot possibly be because of a mesmer, but an exceptionally talented warrior and his nuker friend.
I said high level monsters. Bosses fall into a class of their own.
WoofWoof
I think this is true mostly in PVE. Agree with Corinthian that this is mostly due to lack of visible damage. All the group sees is your Mes spinning around doing *something*... they are just not sure what that *something* may be and would rather stick to the warrior/nuker/monk trinity.
In PVP, I think the picture is very different. In RA, the Mesmer is going to be attacked first unless there's a Monk on your team. This tells me that the Mesmer is very valuable
. In TA, you should not have a big problem finding a team. I found that TA teams love to have an e-denial Mesmer. HA is a different story because unless you have high rank you will not fit with the IWAY FoTM and won't be able to find a PUG. As a player with very little Fame and no Rank, I've all but given up on doing HoH outside of Guild events.
In PVP, I think the picture is very different. In RA, the Mesmer is going to be attacked first unless there's a Monk on your team. This tells me that the Mesmer is very valuable

Son of Urza
I always go for mesmers or necros first in RA if there's no monk, not only because they are rather large threats, but my warrior build is simply better at killing casters than fighters. 
It is true that they do not do visible damage, which is unfortunate. It would be nice if you could see you teammate's damage, with little parentheses to say who it was from. Of course, that would have to be enabled as an option, or some people would be annoyed. Options are good.
EDIT: Another reason is possibly that male mesmers look completely, horribly gay. It's not their fault, but they look horrible, and their dance is even worse. Riverdance . . . *shudders*. The females aren't too bad, if a bit hookerish, but they're not as bad as female eles.

It is true that they do not do visible damage, which is unfortunate. It would be nice if you could see you teammate's damage, with little parentheses to say who it was from. Of course, that would have to be enabled as an option, or some people would be annoyed. Options are good.
EDIT: Another reason is possibly that male mesmers look completely, horribly gay. It's not their fault, but they look horrible, and their dance is even worse. Riverdance . . . *shudders*. The females aren't too bad, if a bit hookerish, but they're not as bad as female eles.
NinjaKai
In PvP it isn't hard to find a partner. But my point is directed mainly at PvE. I mean the best way to get experience and gold or whatever it weapon or item it is you are desiring are things like farming and missions. But when you can't find people to do it with it then becomes a huge annoyance. I mean once a group wanted me to join their group but I had to have a set list of skills they chose when I know for a fact that not one of them had ever been a mesmer. (Idiots i'm the mesmer what makes you think you know how to do it better when you haven't tried.)
P.S. Urza I find nothing wrong with mesmer armor. It looks distinguished. But I agree the dance is odd. But the warrior one is just as bad. Unless you have some sort of validation for an 70s or 80s whatever it is pelvic thrust dance. Hmm.
P.S. Urza I find nothing wrong with mesmer armor. It looks distinguished. But I agree the dance is odd. But the warrior one is just as bad. Unless you have some sort of validation for an 70s or 80s whatever it is pelvic thrust dance. Hmm.
WoofWoof
Quote:
NinjaKai
Quote:
Originally Posted by WoofWoof
Henchies are a wonderful thing and work very well for many PVE missions, particularly in the early game where most players do not understand the value of Mesmers. For the later part of the game (Thunderhead Keep and beyond), you will find that more experienced players do understand and appreciate the contribution a good Mesmer can bring to the team. The Domination line seems to work particularly well: Empathy, Backfire, Diversion and some interrupts could be very effective in PVE. Wastrel's Worry is wonderful against bosses because of it's halved duration. Power Block can completely disable a boss for a very long time, etc.
Just for your info my mesmer is level 20. I really should find more friends on GW that I can forge a reliable farming group with.
SnipiousMax
I think it all comes down to a post-passive-aggresion-displacement issue. Lets say a warrior decides he wants to have some fun playing around in RA, so said warrior equips his masterful build (mending included of course), enters the arena, and procceds to mock and taunt the other (obviously weaker) classes in the arena. Seconds later, after having mending shattered, and attacking through empathy while blinded, the said warrior starts yelling at his own monk, and of course the well prepared mesmer. Perhaps realizing that his efforts in PvP will never be appreciated like they are in PvE, he returns to where he is respected and feared. He begins to put together a masterful group to beat the next mission, calling of course for warriors! and monks, and maybe an ele (w/ firestorm). After screaming endlessly for hours looking for some plasable combination of the three, a mesmer speaks up, looking to join in the group. All of the pent of aggresion which was unable to be released in PvP (due to a stupid mesmer) bubbles back up into our warrior's psyche, and he maliciously calls for more eles, to show that stupid mesmer who's the king of PvE!
That and people are stupid.
That and people are stupid.
Puppets
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipiousMax
That and people are stupid.
Quote:
Well, most likely they were spider runners that charge 30k, which isn't an unheard-of price.
Henchies are a wonderful thing and work very well for many PVE missions, particularly in the early game where most players do not understand the value of Mesmers. For the later part of the game (Thunderhead Keep and beyond), you will find that more experienced players do understand and appreciate the contribution a good Mesmer can bring to the team. The Domination line seems to work particularly well: Empathy, Backfire, Diversion and some interrupts could be very effective in PVE. Wastrel's Worry is wonderful against bosses because of it's halved duration. Power Block can completely disable a boss for a very long time, etc.
The thing is most people are too stupid to notice that the mesmer has completey shut-down willa the unpleasant/insert annoying monk boss. And when they do kill the monk boss, it's usually "GOOD NUKING ELE!! NICE MENDING AND FIERY DRAGON SWORD WARRIOR."
lyroth.grimstone
I really love playing mesmer - for me its one of the best characters in the game. While in PVP i really shine its true that in PVE i have trouble to get a team to go do anything - and i mean anything. I finished the game 5x already with different characters so i remembered the creatures and prepared accordingly to be as effective as possible.
For farming they "need" all classes exept mesmer also i had much problem with missions sometimes. I was like LFG for hours, tried to invite myself to groups searching for players with the nice reject click from the leader, so i really had no choice but to take henchies and do it on my own. I really wish arena would do mesmers a valuable team member somehow, not like now when we have to have luck to get a team. Yesterday i changed my secondary again to ranger and i wished to have a UW pet spider like on other chars. I went to ToA and spammed 2!! hours with no success. Then finaly a nice "piiing" sound and i was like...wow finaly... And then i read... for 30k you can join our group and we will help you!! FFS i have to pay 30k for ppl to have mercy on me and take me into a group! Like i said..hope you come up with an idea how to slightly fix the situation. Mesti Arcanus
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyroth.grimstone
Yesterday i changed my secondary again to ranger and i wished to have a UW pet spider like on other chars. I went to ToA and spammed 2!! hours with no success. Then finaly a nice "piiing" sound and i was like...wow finaly... And then i read... for 30k you can join our group and we will help you!! FFS i have to pay 30k for ppl to have mercy on me and take me into a group!
Like i said..hope you come up with an idea how to slightly fix the situation. Guilds. More specifically, make sure you're in an active guild that focuses on the same things you want to focus on. But then, you probably already know this one. ![]() NinjaKai
SnipiousMax: I'm still trying to make sense of your post.
lyroth.grimstone: 30k for someone to take pity on you. I'd tell them to shove their [Insert discusting derogatory statement here]. Oraculum
Absolutely agree that they're undervalued. I suspect it's primarily because it takes a bit more intellect to run one effectively, and a lot of people like to 'see' the direct damage they're causing. The mes is possibly my favourite class. I have a Me/N, Mo/Me, R/Me, E/Me, and N/Me.. notice the pattern? lol. It is without a doubt the best 2ndary for my personal play style. I'm just glad I'm ina decent guild with people who are happy to team up with me for quests with my primary mes, since without them, I would be a bit stuffed. Consequently, it's nice to be playing one of the 'rare' professions, instead of being another W/Mo clone
![]() ![]() romeo_longsword
To the OT, tell me about it, I love the Me.
I have recently started a Me (one week ago) and I am extreamly impressed. I first noticed them during my early PvP games, and I find their influence in a game is massive. I am married to the Ranger class (due to that I have always been playing a Ranger in DnD and other RPGs, deep history), but if I have to say which is a more powerful class, I would say the Me. I am sure the above statment could draw some interests in debate, but from my point of view, I never find "balance" between the classes. Quite clear each classes are strong in certain places within the design of the game, and the ranger is only strong with support from others. On the other hand, so far from my expereince, the Me can tank and solo many PvE missions and combat situations which my ranger and warrior could not. I can degen and set up spells where the target would hurt themsevels, through walls, aviod incomming attack. So to me, the combat power of Me is certainly very "raw", very powerful. Also, I dont think the Me calss is "out of the box" and that different, as I feel the Me is like the Bard in DnD, which is one of the more traditional classes. Go Me. NinjaKai
Oraculum: It is rather annoying how people don't understand how hard it is. I mean we don't just attack one enemy. A well seasoned mesmer moniters other enemies shutting them down so the rest of the party can focus on killing one enemy at a time. And yes the pattern is obvious. (I plan to make my mesmers secondary a ritualist when available.)
romeo_longsword: Balance is always down to a matter of opinion. As far as a balance i'm finding one that works for my personal style of combat. Eaimirth Etaivella
We Wear the Mask
WE wear the mask that grins and lies, It hides our cheeks and shades our eyes,— This debt we pay to human guile; With torn and bleeding hearts we smile, And mouth with myriad subtleties. Why should the world be over-wise, In counting all our tears and sighs? Nay, let them only see us, while We wear the mask. We smile, but, O great Christ, our cries To thee from tortured souls arise. We sing, but oh the clay is vile Beneath our feet, and long the mile; But let the world dream otherwise, We wear the mask! Paul Laurence Dunbar (1872-1906) No further comment. NinjaKai
Eaimirth Etaivella: Uh. *Nods head in agreement as if pretending to understand*
Dragannia
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipiousMax
I think it all comes down to a post-passive-aggresion-displacement issue. Lets say a warrior decides he wants to have some fun playing around in RA, so said warrior equips his masterful build (mending included of course), enters the arena, and procceds to mock and taunt the other (obviously weaker) classes in the arena. Seconds later, after having mending shattered, and attacking through empathy while blinded, the said warrior starts yelling at his own monk, and of course the well prepared mesmer. Perhaps realizing that his efforts in PvP will never be appreciated like they are in PvE, he returns to where he is respected and feared. He begins to put together a masterful group to beat the next mission, calling of course for warriors! and monks, and maybe an ele (w/ firestorm). After screaming endlessly for hours looking for some plasable combination of the three, a mesmer speaks up, looking to join in the group. All of the pent of aggresion which was unable to be released in PvP (due to a stupid mesmer) bubbles back up into our warrior's psyche, and he maliciously calls for more eles, to show that stupid mesmer who's the king of PvE!
That and people are stupid. Masterfully put. Avarre
Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaKai
lyroth.grimstone: 30k for someone to take pity on you. I'd tell them to shove their [Insert discusting derogatory statement here]. |
However, if a Me/R follows to get spider, a Me/Mo can solo the required quests to get it

Quote:
Originally Posted by romeo_longsword
Also, I dont think the Me calss is "out of the box" and that different, as I feel the Me is like the Bard in DnD, which is one of the more traditional classes.
I always used to play my wizards in DnD with huge amounts of hold person / dominate / maze, etc spells. Indirect devastation ftw
![]() Vaga
Mesmers are no better or worse than any other class in PvE but they are somewhat harder to play in that they have to pick the right targets to lay their hexs on. However if they are picking the wrong targets then they are not contributing to the group much in which case another class would be better.
A lot of mesmer skills do not enhance how fast your group progresses through parts of the game, and the fact is PvE is just about getting through the areas as quickly and with the least amount of people possible. For example casting diversion on a monster means that IF they cast through it they cannot use that spell for a decent amount of time. Most monsters don't live that long anyway. In my opinion as much as I like mesmers, there is almost always a better alternative primary class to them, especially as in the domination line a lot of things cap at 12 anyway. romeo_longsword
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avarre
I always used to play my wizards in DnD with huge amounts of hold person / dominate / maze, etc spells. Indirect devastation ftw
![]() Kriel Drache
I've actually had a few experiences in the Deldrimor War Camp where people have openly mocked my Mesmer when I look for a group. Mesmers can be played to fit almost any role, but a lot of those roles are subtle yet can change the tide of battle. Of course, you could go melee Mesmer as I have been known to do and cut down anything that stands in your way, but where's the insidious fun in that? Oh, and on a side note, I'm in Germany right now without a computer to play Guild Wars on. I'm on a school computer in Marburg right now so I can't exactly load the client and silently kick butt and the Internet in the dorms is down. I'm going to be so rusty when I get back. Oh, and if you're ever in Marburg, try the Döner. It's delicious.
sun is in us
One thing about Mesmers is that to contribute to a PUG, you have to have some control over the pace, similar to a Monk....and this is many times impossible.
We all know that we have Henchied through Ring of Fire Missions. We know that when start an encounter with 6 Hydras that we have our AEcho up and are ready to interupt any spell they go after.....making the Mes Char the safest in that area. But how many PUGs will listen to "Hold for one moment for Aecho to recharge?" So many times we can keep an entire group safe if we are allowed to draw/start initial aggro. It takes a rare group to understand how the Mesmer works most efficiently.....and that gets tiresome. Quote:
A lot of mesmer skills do not enhance how fast your group progresses through parts of the game, and the fact is PvE is just about getting through the areas as quickly and with the least amount of people possible.
And of course as most experienced Mesmers will tell you....this is what the Mesmer excells at. So I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on the meat of your post there.
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Kasissia
One reason that i think mesmers are undervalued (speaking as a player from another class) is that its really hard to see what the mesmers are doing. You can't really see if the boss's energy is out or if he keeps getting interrupted (unless you stare at the skills he's casting). For the other classes, you can see that they heal (monk), they tank (warriors), they are MMs or SSs (necro), they trap/nuke (rangers, eles). For mesmers, its just really hard to see any ''visable'' effects.
DoctorEvil
That reminds me off a funny story of when I first ran my Mesmer through a SF run with a friend who was on Teamspeak.
Friend: Oh my God, why were you firing your wand. Why weren't you casting spells on that Boss? Me: Ummm....I was casting spells on him. I had Conjure Phantasm, Empathy & Backfire on him the whole time and interrupted his healing twice. Friend: .....but I only saw you do you're Mesmer twirling spell casting dance one, all the other times it looked like you were firing your wand.. Me: Dude....I have a 10 in Fast Casting. They got off so fast I don't have time to do a Mesmer twirling spell casting dance! After that he started paying closer attention to what I was doing on these runs, and watched as Monks and Elementalists would Backfire themselves to death while under Conjure Phantasm. When we're in the Tombs it's frequent left to me to neutralize trios of Terrorweb Dryders with Power Block, Backfire and interrupts. Yet, I still can't find PUGs to do anything with ![]() My understand is that there was once a time when no one wanted Necromancers in PUGs either, yet now they're highly in demand. As expansions come on I suspect the role the Mesmer plays in groups will change and become more imporatant. Storm Crow
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Originally Posted by WoofWoof
In RA, the Mesmer is going to be attacked first unless there's a Monk on your team. This tells me that the Mesmer is very valuable
![]() I think that Mesmers are a very good support class in helping take monsters down easier, and interrupting their spells and whatnot. It all depends on how they're used how valuable they are. LouAl
Many people have already said what I think is the biggest reason mesmers are undervalued, lack of visible damage. Although, when I put backfire on an earth titan they drop like flies. For some reason no one notices that the E. titan that was not everyone else's target just died in 10 seconds flat. *shrugs*
When I did the LDD quest I had the HARDEST time finding a group and got kicked MANY times for a war or nuker. In the end I had to play a fast cast healer to get it done (and it was easy). It seems like, when the party size is large (8, sometimes 6) mesmers are in demand if all the other "required" roles are filled, but in a small party people don't realize that you only need one tank/nuker/monk if the mesmer is good. Again, it comes down to visible damage. A necro or ranger can degen everyone on the map, a warrior is easy to see standing there swinging his/her weapon, everyone notices the big chunks of rock falling from the sky, but when a spell doesn't go off no one realizes who did it. (Oh yeah, and monks are easy to spot healing too, your health goes up...that means the monk healed you :P ) The only mesmer skill that is visible to everyone is Cry of Frustration (@#$%), and most people don't realize who made all the montsers pissed all at once. Xyonmonkey
Yea, I've had problems convincing people I was doing something. Its hard to see what a mesmer is doing, especially with fast casting.
LouAl
After reading this and the "what do you expect from a warrior" I decided to see what everyone else thinks about what mesmers do.
If you want to see what people think (of course it only just started) check here: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=130222 Kai Nui
Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Urza
The females aren't too bad, if a bit hookerish
Is 'hookerish' a word?!?
Anyway, I do have to say that mesmers have horrible armor, and are great if you don't have a sucky monk. If you don't have a monk at all, you'd better just plan on not having anti-caster but anti-death. Er, I mean anti-warrior. You'll just end up running away the entire time until you die from degen or something and you question your exsistience, even though you have all these great skills at your disposal, they're completely useless unless you have wire supporting your bra. Er, I mean a monk supporting your life. Anyway, I think the point I'm trying to say is, if you chose mesmer like me, you're screwed, and the only way you can get into anything is if you get lucky and meet someone skilled who is in a top 1,000 rank guild and you can join them. Everything below that is warriors who think they're "someone" and are going to be famous for their 1337 skillz, when in reality, the build they're using is one they took from a friend, who took that build from a site, and that site is named, "The Most Generic Mesmer Killing Builds For Warriors Ever," while we are sitting all alone crying to our mamas because "Kay Dee Slash Aye Ess" ("KD/AS" for you slow people who shouldn't be playing mesmer out there) owned your silly little green ass in RA. Anyway, as you can see, I've got like over 4k deaths on my character and in relation to my age on that game, that means I've died 1 time every 15 minutes. Why do I keep playing? Because it used to be 1 time every 5. NinjaKai
Quote:
Originally Posted by LouAl
After reading this and the "what do you expect from a warrior" I decided to see what everyone else thinks about what mesmers do.
If you want to see what people think (of course it only just started) check here: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=130222 I actually posted in that thread. Most peoples expectations of mesmers where a bit too high. I mean seriously for a group of people that aren't picked often for farming, missions, etc. People certainly expect a lot. I think they are just jealous because we have the nice collectors armor. Avarre
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Originally Posted by NinjaKai
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Originally Posted by romeo_longsword
You are a bully.
No, bully is when I use spelltrap/absolute immunity/imprisonment and go around imprisoning every mob in the room, invincible.
BlackRecluse
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Crow
I think that this just adds to the list of Reasons to Kill A Mesmer First. #342: They are a pain in the ass that shuts down your spellcasters. Own their sparkaly pinkness. But this all goes to PvP.
I think that Mesmers are a very good support class in helping take monsters down easier, and interrupting their spells and whatnot. It all depends on how they're used how valuable they are. Cry of Frustration is the greatest spell. Ever. anyway to touch on the topic, i think mesmers used to be much more underrated than they are now. i myself have one, and whenever i feel like joining a pug for the fow/uw, i have a very easytime joining. i think most players realise how uncommon they are, and how valuable they are. but its also much harder earlier in the game to join groups, with many new players demanding only warriors/monks. especially in 4-man groups ;/ NinjaKai
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avarre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avarre
No, bully is when I use spelltrap/absolute immunity/imprisonment and go around imprisoning every mob in the room, invincible.
I always thought bullies were those stupid big things with no brains. Or am I thinking about the Tony Blair.
Kai Nui
I think the only creature worthy enough to be killed by a mesmer is a musaat monk. Everything else is worthless.
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