I'm a PvE only player...how come I can't have a chance at winning$100k in real money?

Obviously having 2 warriors with 33%- hex durration helmets didn't get them to Taiwan, but that is beside the point. That doesn't explain the use by some teams of PvE characters with FoW armor.

Obviously, this is becuase the teams in question also PvE and were, perhaps, trying to drive some fame to their personal character names.

And its not that I'm saying there shouldn't be any PvE contests, give aways, ect: but that they should not be given solely on the basis that "well, PvP got them".

Many players who play only PvE are strangely jealous of "PvP". I simply don't think that any line between the two exists that wasn't created in the immaginations of those proclaiming them.

In retrospect, as PvP guilds would not be disqualified from this 'PvE tournament', they would probably be in better shape to win any team based challenges, compared to those guilds that work mainly in solo farming or low end PvE (as those are a large magority of 'PvE only guilds').

The winning Korean guild also used the HoD helmets. PvP players will do PvE in order to get any sort of advantage over their opponents. It's called "Playing to Win". And every single advantage you can take over your opponent matters. PvP players DO PvE- but most of us consider doing the same quests/missions/farming over and over is boring. Human opponents are much more challenging and fighting them creates a more rewarding game.

I'm sorry. I thought you knew a bit more about it than you do. I realize now I can't win the argument as you aren't fully aware of certain aspects of the game or why that part of the statement is wrong.

That is quite possibly true. It would however give PvE'ers the chance to feel like they are competing towards some goal though. It would include them in a community activity with the possibility of winning at what they like to do best. Factions may be what does this, I am not sure. I don't think anyone knows yet. For those of you that think ideas like this are silly, well then you might not want to buy factions. From what they have said, these Elite Missions are exactly what we have been talking about. Competitive PvE missions. The only difference between that and what some people here want is for there to be some kind of real world competition/tournament that includes that aspect.

SO you defend the comment 'PvP players know just as much about PvE as a PvE only player knows about PvP'? Or did you not read that part? That's what this whole discussion was about.

Riddle me this: if both teams had the HoD helms and one won, is that becuase
A. That team had more HoD helms
B. The winning team could handle the techniqual problems NCsoft presented them with better than the other team
or
C. the winning team was more skilled overall
?

And what exactly is incorrect about it? The HoD helms, if I'm not mistaken gave -33% duration of hexes on yourself. It has been toned down to just -20% now.

Please correct me. How am I wrong here?

it was -50% i believe

the old describiton was "reduce hex duration on you by half"

(Prob said be4 but im running out on time) Guild Wars is about balenced PvP, PvE gets you ready for PvP. You can still PvE all you want, but Guild Wars is based around balenced PvP.

No matter the duration (and it was labeled simply "shortens the duration of hexes cast on you"), both teams had them, and knew that they had them. Neither had any advantage.

This whole thing though, is just you, Nigma, dodging the issue that PvP players also play PvE, for no matter the reason. You say that 'they know just as much as somebody who doesn't know anything about it'.

You've been wiggling your arguements into different little areas. And then it comes down to you saying this would only be so that 'PvE only players could have peace of mind'. A rugue.

Holding any kind of ingame skill contests for PvE only players would simply not work.

1. High End PvE isn't fighting challenging AI in alaberate mission settings, but just farming money.

2. PvP Guilds would easily dominate the competition.

It could not be just a challenge of ingame fighting ability, that would just be calling it a "PvE tournament". Now, I'm sure if you just wanted to make it a tournament of fighting AI monsters in mission settings, ok, that works. But thats not for PvE Players.

I have all 452 skills on my ranger. I also have over 8 million XP and 248 skill points saved for factions. My ranger has been retired for over a month awaiting chapter two, cause there is nothing left for him to do in this game, also others in my guild have done the same.

I would go a step further to say that if there was a 'PvE' style tournament for money in this game, that the guilds that you'd see on top of that ladder would be very similar to the ones you see on top of the PvP ladder.


Actually I don't believe a single HoD helm was broken out over the entire course of the tournament in Taipei, and from my understanding EvIL didn't even have them in their inventory. The power of the HoD helm wasn't the effect, as much as the threat of the effect. Hexes simply were not a part of the metagame with that thing available, so, perhaps paradoxically, it never needed to be used.


PvP players do not know as many details of PvE as PvE players do. That should be obvious. Powergaming PvE requires specific knowledge of mob locations, patrols, compositions, and skillsets. Now personally I pay enough attention to the PvE side of the game to powergame it but most PvP players do not. It's not because they're not good at it but because they don't care to. In general the PvP side is more concerned with, *gasp*, keeping up on the ever-changing metagame in PvP.

If there was prize money to be won though I'm sure you'd see that attitude change. I can guarantee you that my guild would analyze any tournament zone in stunning detail, dissect, design, and tweak a build to dominate it, practice like mad, and ultimately cut through it with clockwork precision.

Basically there's a certain personality type that gets amped up by the competition and will obsess over every small detail to maximize their chances of winning. In general those people get drawn to PvP instead of PvE for reasons that I think are obvious. Sure there are some PvE players with that personality who are happy sticking with PvE...but I don't think they're anywhere near a majority.


EvIL was the best team at the tournament that weekend. They beat everyone down with superior preparation and playskill. I won't begrudge them anything.

Peace,
-CxE

Well, I still feel like Pve is being left out. When I finish the last mission, there's no rewards for our accomplishment, just nothing...instead we're zone back to Droknar's Forge? wth?

geez, will someone just shoot the next dumb shmuck to say that this game is designed to be PvP only?

IT IS NOT!

it is designed to be both pvp and pve...
you are not expected to pvp in the end after you finish, they just hope that some players will, but they dont give a pair of fetid dingoes kidenys if you do not!

ahem.....
i do not begrudge, or even realy care if pvp players get a cash insentive....they have had to grind in their own way, be it a maybe less monotones way, to them.... i find pvp just as monotones and boaring, as you do PvE....
i understand that the world in general likes to see person a getting ganked by person b....its the neanderthal type genes in our make up..its also the reason why folks rubberneck at car wrecks.

but..just for one seccon..can you understand that a pve person can feel a little left out?.....no?....didnt think so.....

we dont all want cash, or real world prezzies....frell, in game rewards would suit most of us...
and, are you sure that when you say, tis easy to get all skills and all elites, you mean ALL....all the primary skills unlocked, all the skills period....
not all the primay for one class and all the secondarys available.
theres skils available in pre sear that you can only get as primary...

pve is definately someithgn different...
people dont want to see players run thru the pve side?
ah, what about when GameNetwork used to show a whole chunk of Mir or Soma ontheir station? folks watched that, frell, I watched that sometimes, to see new areas i never saw...
(this was befor it became a tit and ass phone message hotline dross channel)

The only way to have a true PvE prize would be that you arent up against other players. Therefore it would have to be:

Anyone who fights through this huge maze alone within Starttime - Endtime will get an equal division of the prize.

If it went to the first person you would be playing against other people and it would be like a relic map. If you are trying to be the fastest its just an elimination map. The only way to have a pve prize is to give everyone an equal shot.

(chances are the area would be farmed anyways.... >.< )

It also would be so freaking hard to keep the amount of people completing it to a minimum that it would take some abused bug to even have a chance.


And if there was a pve prize...the pvp people would take it anyway. They are so much more competitive that the pve players would cry.

heh, the nuclear option in other words :-) That's pretty interesting in itself.

Yeah, I posted something like that in another thread. I actually thought I'd get warped to the Hall of Heroes (since I had no idea at the time what it was and figured there was a PvP and PvE entrance to it). You can imagine my face when I got dropped off in Droks. I also thought that was another way to get a Celestial Sigil without buying it. Some kind of special emote for that character for say Finishing the game, Finishing the Game and all Bonuses, Doing all the quests in FoW/UW, finishing ToPK, all the quests in Sorrow's Furnace. That's a good point.

Ensign knows quite a bit more about PvP than I do so I won't even try to second guess his statements. I think where I see a difference though is that maybe the PvE would be more of a surprise in a championship, where nobody can really pick it apart before its played. Technically it would be static, but since you're only playing it once, I think that would not matter. I do realize that it would be some intense work on the part of ANet to create new content for each round of the championship as opposed to PvP because they provide the change and not the other players. As far as leading up to the championship I believe something like tough areas (similar to UW/FoW) could be developed and the guilds that complete them first or best or whatever could move onto a new round. Small areas could be created and time-limited to one week each which could be used to guage the guilds somehow (a point system or even just number of quests/deaths/etc). After a week that area is closed off and/or replaced so that they don't get too long with it. I agree that there might be a similarity in that the same guilds may win either tournament because they are good at teamwork and/or adapting to change. Then again, who knows. Spawn points, mobs, etc would be entirely unknown until right before the mission is played. Perhaps a crude map could be given and a story for it (laying seige to so and so castle guarded by blah blah) so that they can have some idea on how to prepare for it. The key I think would be to have multiple options for finishing it and let them figure them out in-game.

Anyways, I'm sure someone at ANet more creative than I am can figure something out. As said before, that could be exactly where they are going with the Elite Missions in Factions where you hold areas and have competitive missions (finish goals/best time/most resources/etc). I guess we'll see where they go with it. I agree with Enisng though that there are people that really analyze everything. We like to do that as well, but on the PvE side. The difference is that in the normal PvE play, once you analyze them and figure them out, that's where you get your static play. In a tournament, you only get a limited time (or even limited tries) to do it. By the time you analyze everything, the ara is gone or the mission is over with. Get into this castle and kill the king. Go through this land and retrieve the stolen artifact first. Fight off invading swarms of <insert AI mobs>. Protect the King from the enemy. Many of these would probably duplicate missions we already have, but done in a way to where they are new, one-off missions that nobody has memorized yet.

Yeah, maybe you're right. It's a tough one. In-game PvP has its prizes (the chests with the Sigils/other drops such as possibly Crystallines) and Farming has its prizes (Fissure Armour/aesthetic weapons). Playing regularly through the missions and quests could probably use something. Maybe like I mentioned earlier: an emote for finishing the game, one for finishing the game and all bonuses, we get fow/uw for ascending, but maybe something like a halo to show it off, or badges for the different accomplishments (though I dunno how you'l show that off). Being dropped off in Droknar's Forge after saving the world (and nothing after doing the titan quests) isn't really something to cherish. You can't even show anyone else you did it because everyone and their mother is at Droknar's Forge :-)

Quite a few PvE players like to show their stuff off in towns and what-not. That's one of the big differences between playing a game like this and playing Dungeon Siege/NwN with friends.

This part is interesting. I remember the second game of iQ vs EvIL, the N/Mo from Evil single handedly prevented 2 iQ warriors from ganking their guild lord by hexes. Now are you sure the warriors didn't use HoD helm at that moment? If they had used, would the result be the same or different? And I'm curious why the warriors didn't try to kill the N/Mo first. Probably they were thinking they could kill the guild lord inspite of the necro.

Before this topic goes any further, could I please ask a little common sense.

PVP hardcores, stop saying this:

"This game is PVP only, you want to play PVE go play another game"

Its not true, its stupid and you're a moron if you say it.

The point isn't that it's a "PvP-only" game, so much that it's a "PvP-focused" game. This is why ANet deemed it fit to call it a Competitive Online RPG.

Apparently you dont want the Trade Channel much, the Farmers have PVE pretty competitive.

Besides, competition can mean anything from competing in PVP matches, to competiting in timed Missions.

I never seen a thing about PVP that has ever held my attention for very long compared to PVE. So if this game is PVP oriented, they're doing a bad job of getting me to play it.

you have a very limited mindset if the only thing that comes to mind is personal combat (pvp) when you see *competitive*

and why are the people who are designing and making the game so adamant that this is not a pvp focused game and that the pve is not simply a funnel to the *real pvp game*?

you have this huge playground to explore and do things in and a few small sandboxex (arenas) for the pvp people to play in.

considering putting the amount of development, artwork,level design, and mission/quest foundation on one side of a balance scale and the tiny amount of additional work for the arenas using PVE art/programming/etc and it looks as though the pvp aspect was a small sloppy add on.

Anet says they were made to be equal but what you have in fact is a ton of PVE work balancing a few small sandbox pvp areas

Here's a reward for you: the most-poorly-thought-out-statement-ever prize.

my reward is having fun playing.

i dont need them to pay me to play it.

practicing all the time just to have a chance of winning would be work and not fun for me at all

essentially my opinion runs as follows:

Guild Wars is a Free PvP based game. It is not a free version of more PvE orientated games such as WoW, becuase there is simply no contest. If you enjoy grinding levels and farming, then to be quite frank there are better games out there than GW for that kind of thing. IMO the campaign of GW really only serves to meaten the game out a bit, and act as a tutorial for the PvP world. nothing will change in factions, in fact it seems that this will be further heightened with the introduction of missions entirely devoted to the development of advanced group dynamic skills, skills which are normally learnt ever so slowly in the pvp arenas to the frustration of more experienced PvP players (i am talking to you Paladins)

Thats said, it is not my place to tell you, or anyone, how they should enjoy GW, but i cant see a reward for PvE players really being easy to put into practise. What would they reward? That 100k will be won by players who literally train for it, who spend hours and hours working on tactics with their team-mates, possible sacrificing girl/boyfriends and jobs along the way, just to have a shot at the grand prize. These are not casual players, these people, especially in the case of Korea, actually pay for their meals with this type of thing. It seems strange to reward the PvE players for what essentially and no offence meant, is a unskillful (relatively) but perhaps time consuming past part of the game. PvE players already get a reward over PvP players, and that is ectos, shards, and eventually FoW armour. The fact that the PvP elite get a reward is not unbalanced if you knew what they go through in order to get to that level of play. I doubt that anybody in the PvE world goes to that extreme by a god wide margin.

I think you better write anet and tell them to take rpg off the box and website . If you are saying it is pvp game!

i would like to point out that very qualified pvp players have said that to be successful in pvp you have to UNLEARN bad things learned in pve. (so it is not intended as a pvp tut)

that comes from good pvp players not me (i pve only)

and for a pvp game it only took them almost a year to get a basic pvp training area put into the game? (the pvp weekend)

I am:

1. Offended that people are so ignorantly obsessed that this is a PvP oriented game. It's not.
2. Offended that people are under the impression that PvE doesn't require any skill. Where you think most PvPers LEARNED to adapt tactics?
3. Offended that people have choosen to be unimaginative and unable to think of a decent competitative means be which to hold a PvE contest, equal in stature to PvP.
4. Offended that there is an impression that PvEers know nothing about PvP. We know far more about PvP and the people who play it then we wish to. And if they flames are any indication, they are out in full force in this thred.

Now speaking: Personally, I'd love to see a competition for PvE, with a cash reward.

But frankly, after reading this thread for 3-4 pages. Now I'd just like the opportunity to show up some of these offense, derisive, arrogent PvPers.

PvE 5% of the game? Bite me.

I'm offended too! damn u guys

I'm offended that you're offended about me offending that guy who was offending PvP players.

PvE Requires PLENTY of skill. For example, gear tanking and AI exploitation. I TOTALLY respect the skill needed to hold a gear and stand there, not moving. I think that's an awesome talent to have, and self-proclaimed top PvE players deserve lots of repect for having this talent.

Of course PvE players know more about PvP than PvPers who play it every day! It makes total sense! It's just like how I know more about Chess than Kasparov! Even though he plays it every day! In fact, I know so much about Chess, I don't even play it now. I would probably just steamroll Kasparov or Fischer, those newbs. Not really worth my time.

'd be happy to oblige! (If that floats your boat).

Tellyawhat. You get your guild, I get my guild, and we have a showdown sometime, k? Make sure your Wammo brings the gear, though.

Yet you face the same number of opponents every match. They are all human (or maybe some pets too), There are no bosses, no drops, no real sense of accomplishment.

I have started playing some pvp recently, and I will admit that I am not very good yet. However I expect to get better. As I get better, I hope to do more killing and less dying. As I get better I hope I Come to enjoy this portion of the game more...

There is absolutely nothing in PvE that is relatively hard to do at all. I can solo FoW, I can solo UW, I can do any mission with henchies, and I can farm just about anything else anyone else can farm. I can run droks, southern shiverpeaks, the desert, and ascalon/kryta. Why can I do all these things? Because it is simple and easy, and PvE is static.

I have mastered PvE with almost 1000 hours into PvE, now I have almost 1400 hours and that span of almost 400 hours I have dedicated toward PvP and have dropped PvE totally. Why? Because PvE no longer challenged me, and I find PvP much more rewarding and fun than PvE. Not to mention I have all the money, items, weapons, and fow armor that I ever want and need.

Not to mention there are a lot of really talented people to play with and meet in PvP.

There's a difference between 'it's a PvP game' and 'it's not a grind game'. Guild Wars is an RPG in a traditional sense, you have some sort of loose story plus some wilderness to explore, some progression, and a pretty distinct end. It's the kind of RPG I grew up on in fact, played online with other people.

Then there's this other kind of 'RPG' out there, that's basically a bigger and better version of dungeon hack. Basically you don't worry about a storyline at all and focus the game entirely upon level and item acquisition. This is the gametype rejuvenated by Diablo, and popularized as a massive online game by Everquest.

Guild Wars is clearly of the first type. Instead of focusing on the volume of content, it focuses more on quality (feel free to debate their success). It isn't designed to have massive replay value. It's an online version of Baldur's Gate and other traditional RPGs, not Diablo or Dungeon Hack. It's actually funny because itemquest has stripped virtually all RPG elements out of itself, yet if you're not itemquest now people are upset that they aren't getting what they paid for.

Not every game is going to be grind driven. If it hasn't been made clear by now, Guild Wars is not going to be a grind driven game and if that's what you want you're going to have to look elsewhere. It's doing different things, trying different goals with various amounts of success. It's still an RPG though, in every (bastardized) sense of the term.
Peace,
-CxE

Actually, I think it's a bit of a double-standard. PVP players complaining about certain items that PVE players have access to and PVP players don't, has led to... what? Said items either being nerfed or included for PVP use. There doesn't have to be complete equality between the PVP or PVE players, especially since it's possible for people to go out and get those items with a PVE character they're building with the intent to PVP with it.

Since PVP gets an opportunity at a large prize tournament, why shouldn't PVE get the same opportunity? There's been consistent attempts to make sure PVE players don't get any sort of advantage over PVP players, and yet.. and yet, they have no opportunity for this sort competition.

And those who say thatGW is a PVP-centric game... if that's so, why bother putting a PVE component in the game at all? Because the game is meant for both PVP and PVE players. And if that's so, then why should PVP players be the only ones who have this big prize to strive for, whereas the PVE players don't? It seems to me, that if a game purports to cater to both the PVP and PVE crowds, it should open the same doors to both crowds, rather than catering to one at the expense of the other.

first item is that i am completely PVE so dont bother saying i am a pvp elitest fanboi.

they have these pvp events for high stakes prizes to attract attention to the game.

they go for what will be watched and get attention.

there is no audience market for any type of pve event.

tell me exactly what pve event you have in mind that could be played under live fast non boring time frames for the big payoff

Quoted for truth.

What is there going to be for PvE? Who can run to Drok's the fastest? Who can farm the most gold in an hour? Who has "teh most leet" armor/weapons?

The reward is for the competitive side of the game (aka PvP). Prizes are always given for something competitive in real life ... think about it. Car races, olympic sports, contests ... these are all competitive.

PvE is cooperative. Do you get some kind of "real life" reward from playing, say, a Playstation game? The comradery and sense of personal accomplishment are your rewards for PvE play, just as they are in any other game.

Also, I am not a PvP fanboi either, 95% of my time is PvE, so don't throw that rock at me

do u see ppl killing bot in Counter-Strike during WCG / ESWC?
do u see ppl killing the Computer in Warcraft during WCG/ESWC?
do u see ppl racing against the Computer in NFS during WCG/ESWC.
............
and the list goes on.

This discussion has gone beyond stupid. At the end of the day, whether you consider yourself a PvE or PvP player, you're all playing the same game. Since it already has a competitive element, what would be the point of creating another?

News Flash: Unless you thought they would just give out money to anyone who can clear an area of AI opponents in a set amount of time, which would be more of a test than anything, it's always going to be a "competition". The second you're competiting against other people, directly or not, it stops being PvE and becomes another form of PvP.

Guild Lord/Ghostly Hero

Celestial Sigils, and rare drops from winning Halls

Guild rating/Fame. Not to mention a chance at a $100,000 prize pool at the World Championships

I find that offensive.

I could see Anet maybe giving out stuff for say Alliance (not faciton) (who holds x the longest over x span) but the rewards would proable be more in game then real $.

I'm PvE 99% and I don't see a reason to have cash reward, PvP playoff's make sense. PvP can be serious competion where pve does require skill (no question there) but it's more adapting to the monsters / ai for that area / zone specific goal.

If you look at Half-Life 2 and Counterstrike Source, which make more sense to have a real money cash vaule reward if you held a contest?

I'm a PvE'er only. Tried PvP, I was so bored. That said, those that PvP play for the competition of it, at least that's what I'm told. So, it seems to me a virtual sport if you will, which allows for monetary rewards.
PvE'ers, like myself, mostly play just for the fun of it (fun being relative in their tastes). There really isn't a way to tag PvE with a way to win, without pitting the PvE'ers into a PvP type game style.
Factions is doing this, PvE'ers will be playing vs other players for score or points to aid in the moving of borders for city control. I don't think the PvEers will be able to kill each other, but it's still competing against them; so it is PvP as PvP means Player vs Player.
Perhaps with that in place, there will be a way to reward PvEers with some cold hard cash... maybe.

Those with a dry since of humor like me might get a snicker at this thought. After reading this thread and how hostile most PvE vs PvP players are towards the other game style, does Anet really want to bring the two closer? hehe Talk about volitile enviroment... whew

I don't think the ability to steal and duplicate another person's build to do a 2% of FoW or UW counts as anything. In my opinion, that's AI explotation, and not how you're supposed to play the game. If you want a challenge, try to beat all of FoW or UW with a pug team. Or if you're with a guild try to beat UW or FoW with a team of 5 people.

You say you're able to beat every mission with henchies? Are you able to get the bonus in Dunes of Despair with henchies? Are you able to complete tombs with henchies? Those are pve challenges which are not at all easy.

You have to remember that farming and running isn't how the game were designed to be played, and you can't determine the challenge of the game by doing those things.