Europe: losers' land

Sun Tzu is worshipped by people who know SFA about modern warfare. His stuff is wonderful for pipe smoking armchair generals but absolutely no use whatsoever in a practical sense.

The worst thing Anet ever did was listening to the racist fools who wanted split districts. Now we have 6 different districts with 1 person in each city. Woo hoo, I'm so happy because there are no French or Germans or Italians in here. Oh wait, I'm all alone now...

It was much better before, we had crowded districts, and full teams. Now I have to take henchmen with me all the time, because of the lack of players.

Why would anyone want this? If you're such an ignorant, narrow-minded nationalist, that you can't stand other languages, you shouldn't be playing online. Why do you have to ruin it for others who *gasp* have NO problem whatsoever with other languages/other nationalities. You know, just because they speak french doesn't mean they don't know how to team-play properly.

We all know the basic rules of play in this game, and mostly, nothing more is needed to complete the quests. I have done A LOT of quests without much communication between the players, simply because we all knew what we had to do.

You know, this is very ironic. Anet split up the districts to enhance the communication of the players, and thereby the game experience. But before the split, I never had any problem finding players, regardless of their language. Now, we all speak the same language, but the lack of players limits the use of the language anyway.

And to make this even worse, we are advised to play on the US servers? You got to be kidding me...

Great move Anet!

Here is what I suggest: Everyone starts out in the international district. If you have a problem with the presence of other nationalities and languages, you can MANUALLY move to whatever language district you like, using the district selector. In a way, the complete opposite of what we have now.

Same here.

Screw the HoH favour and more trading favour, know whats great?
Actually having people in every location, no matter what time it is and how abandon this location is.
Its just easier to find other peoples to play with.

Im still in a guild that is mostly on the European Server.

If it is the huge Grenth Temple in Lornars Pass, it sadly IS controlled by the favor :/

Everyone starts out in the district their interface is set to. I don't see a problem with that. I've grouped with quite a few Dutch and Scandanavian English-speaking players, I hardly think language districts are 'racist'.

There is nothing stopping you going to the other districts looking for groups, the same number of players are playing. What splitting the districts does is make it easier for same-language groups to get together.

If you find it difficult to find groups, join a guild. It usually makes it a heck of a lot easier to find people to play with. Re-uniting the servers will just create total confusion and make things like the trade channel a mess.

You are wrong. Macedonia is the name of a greek province. There is also one of the former yoguslavian states that calls itself Macedonia, which has been pissing off the greeks enough that the state is now called FYROM (short for Former Youguslavian Republic Of Macedonia) in most international events.

FYROM is a slavic republic, while Alexandar was greek.

Right, the problem is, the splitting of districts makes it much harder to find a group. If I move to another district, I will find the same lack of players, because everyone has their own district. I don't care which country they're from, what I do care about, is finding people to play with.

In my opinion, you should be put in the international district to start with, THEN, if you feel the urge to only play with people who have the same nationality as you, you can join a guild or move to another district. I don't want to run around from district to district forming a group. I want to be able to form a PUG quickly and go questing. Once again I don't care if I have Frenchmen, Germans, or Scandinavian players on my team, I just want to be ABLE to play.

Why do you have to join a guild? Why does Anet focus so much on splitting up the players? It was great the way it was before. If you wanted to play with people who only spoke English you just typed: "Looking for people to do *insert quest here* ENGLISH ONLY!".

Again, let everyone start in the international district, and if they wish they can manually select another language district.

Well after reading thru the whole thread (and most of the nationalist crap that came up) these are my 2 eurocent:

I have kinda mixed feelings about the language-districts in europe. While it is true that is does even more split the people for parties and such, it also does group them kinda. In the old districts I often had parties where some french and german people where in. I am from austria so I speak german and english, but in a group I will and want to always talk english, no matter the countries. Because so really everyone can understand it. And I have to sadly admit, the first thing you hear from most germans is "ger anyone?"...
But one time I was in a group for a big mission, and there were 2-3 french in it. Nothing against the french in personal, but they just couldn't talk english in the mission, although they were very well capable of it. So I was clueing about what they would want to to, etc. That just plain sucks. Also I was in a german-only party once. To translate, the typical thing that was coming up in the chat when someone didn't heal ASAP or someone died (nomatter that I rezzed him ~10 seconds after it) was: "OMG you son of a bitch! I did your mother last night!", I just thought, well let's leave the kids to the german groups...

Now under the new district system I always have english speaking parties (I don't even join the german districts, maybe there are some guys, but they shall form their own german-speaking parties) - and I had some of the best parties with guys from spain, holland, sweden and other EU countries because they all WANTED an english-speaking group so teamplay was very nice.

It it true though that the later areas in the game like crystal desert are really lonely especially in nighttimes. But I think (hope) that will change in some weeks when more players get thru the game time after time.

I never tried the american servers, but I would want to, even if it be just to see the Underworld once ^_^

Where can you choose what world you want to play on in GW? And do you copy all your characers if you join another server?

Yes, some times you will find people saying "ger anyone?" or "french?" but this has never been such a big deal. Not for me anyway. Most of the time people speak english, or are kind enough to do it if asked.

These insults that you speak of are not only committed by Germans. I've seen Englishmen, Australians and Frenchmen throwing insults around all the same.

Every nation has idiots, I hope we can agree on that.

Alexander The Great was Greek. Just because a Skopje, FYROM or what ever you want to call them decided that they are going to call themselves Macedonians does not mean that they are descendants of Alexander The Great. The slavs came to the region after his death. Why does he and his father have greek names if they were not Greek?

True, but in all the parties I had with frenchmen they would just refuse to talk in english, although they could talk perfectly english when the party was forming together - in the mission they would just talk french with their 2-3 buddies...

Sure, but the one particular group I was talking about, they would just randomly insult everyone on the team while playing - although they didn't particulary play bad. I just don't want to read all the stuff in a game that is so very rich with fantasy atmosphere.

Of course we can agree on that! ^_^

nationalism sucks, nationalists are ignorant.... we're all in this together

As for the favor and the new language districts, Europe wins now. Communication is essential.

I don't believe this district change has anything to do with Europe winning. Sure, communication is essential, but before the new districts, people just said they only wanted English speaking people on their team, and it worked fine.

Underworld and Fissure of Woe are just the most hardcore PvE experience of the game, and they're just locked up tightly for 90% of the time to Europeans. Chances are, in the rare cases when Eu has the favor of the gods (thanks to some great guild like Out of Mana), it lasts so little that you could not playing at that moment and lose the occasion for another week (usually more).

Same for the Tomb of Primeval kings. Try to form a group in the US servers. Americans will probably be way more picky than Europeans, because they want to have a real chance. Out of 13-14 times I fought against an Eu group with an american one, I always won.

Statistics in PvP would probably make european guilds pale.

I don't remember ever seeing europe hold the favor before the change, now it's quite common. In fact, this very second Europe is contending for favor with America... 4 more wins (I don't even recall seeing Europe on the notices before)

Alexander the great died without fathering any children. There is no debate about descendents. He has none.
I am not debating hellenism as a form of nationalism. merely clarifying that the the country now calling itself macedonia occupies some of the landmass of ancient macedonia and they are not currently a member of the E.U. as someone earlier pointed out. and if you had the link some 64% of them claim to be ethnically 'Macedonian' and speak 'macedonian' as their first language.
As others, have pointed out, cultural pride finds itself being harnessed by the ruthless power hungry in the form of nationalism, and always has underlying hostility to it. It is not something to be encouraged.
From what i have read, he was born in Macedonia and ruled Greece so both countries can claim him so can parts of Egypt, present day Iraq, Iran, and India. this site expresses the polar opposite of your view. http://www.mymacedonia.net/

This is more of a coincidence than a consequence of the splitting of the districts. We all agree that guilds play a major role in this, but I don't see any reason why splitting the districts would make certain European guilds change strategy.

The greek citizens of the province of Macedonia has a much better historic claim the name than the slavic tribe in FYROM.

I always thought the greek were pety-minded about the name of FYROM at a time where avoiding war in Balkan was more important. But this thread demonstrates that they (the greek) had a point.

To anyone who knows history this discussion is as absurd as claiming that Jimmy Carter is not American because the Former Soviet Republic of Georgia (FSROG :-) is not a member of the US of A.

Funny.... I have played MTW/ RTW for 3/4 years; in that strategic game, you also need some degree of agressiveness (or rather of initiative) to win. Most of the best clans and best players were Euro based. Some US players/clans were good too, but overall, it was way more challenging to play on Euro hours than US ones.

What does that mean?

Probably nothing, I just think MTW/ RTW sold better in Europe than in the US, and that's all there is to it.

It's true that within a Euro clan/ guild, one can face some communication problem: not everyone speak English, and sometimes teamspeak is more of a problem than a solution... (go try teamspeak when people talk in English/ Spanish and you're French... even if you understand everything, it gets tiring pretty fast).
In that case, guilds need to pay more attention to all the great CTRL+... GW got.

Louis,

actually, it would be akin to claiming that William Shatner is an American because he played in a U.S. tv show. anyone who know history knows that if you repeat something loud enough and often enough it will become the generally accepted truth.

I cant read all the long posts but here are two quotes I found of interest:-

Nice one, well in for moving.. we did the same, we bought a cheap sigil, got plenty of cheap materials, got LOADS of nice runes and upgrades that are just impossible to get in EU.

But with no dis-respect to our american friends, I dont want americans in my guild.. the personalitys and attitudes 'clash' too much. So its difficult to expand your guild (something we HAVE to do because people realise they are crap at the game, make their excuses and leave)

NOW that we have a good batch of memebers who have the equipment/ arour they want .. got the runes unlocked (have the favor in america most of the time is a bonus) we ARE now competative... and we try to help young memebers as much as we can.

A trip the american servers has in fact made us more competative.

so yes... take your clan to america.. stay there for about a month, then move back.

I personally think that all Arenanet has to do is give us the OPTION to BUY more region transfers, using either in game money or quests.

When you win/buy a region transfer.. make it so that it only lasts a week?..

you may think that americans / koreans would never want to visit loser land, so make it so that in certain regions your are more likley to get certain drops..

EU 10% more likley to get better armour drops
America 10% more likley to get better cheese burger drops.. er I mean weapons

etc etc.

thoughts?

The Snowman

First of all I'll just mention that I am not a native english speaker. I learned english from going to school and reading english books.

The language district change was a good thing. Because now people that have absolutely no skills at english, can stay in their own district. The ones that do know english even they are from Italy, Spain etc. and WANT to speak english (for some reason some people, from France and Germany especially, refuse to speak english even if they know how to) can join the english-speaking district where the majority of Europeans stay.

Like was said earlier by someone else, I WANT to speak english to be understood by as many as possible, even though I don't speak english normally. If this willingness to communicate with everyone and partake in an online community was inherent in more people, this would not be a problem. Alas...

I changed to us due to the amount of spam on the chat channel and was curious to see if the americans where as bad.
I am now back on the european server and can honestly say YES.

posted this on another thread, but seems appropriate.

The favour of the gods should just increase PvE drops, i.e slightly better vs charr, and increase % drops of said upgrades, and / or increase gold drops and amount of cash merchants offer for goods as this wouldn't effect the PvP side of the game. All maps should be available to all servers this would help combat the migration of highend players to american servers.

The principle of GW would then be focused more on the actual guilds rather that the countries / servers. The idea behind international guildwars is sound, but alas with language barriers and human nature it is not practical.

I personally think we shouldn't look at the Favor of the gods problem, it only takes 8 good players to win that.

the main problem is finding proper PUGs if your guildmembers aren't online or if you're not in a guild.
for coop missions like Thirsty River a good party is needed for sure, if you can't get a good party you're stuck.

Well... just today... "Dynasty Warriors"... a euro guild won it about 5 times in a row that i saw... and well... euro does have the favor more then they ever use to...

They lost the favor in about 1 hour, Korea got it back immediately.

Not long ago they didn't need to take it back from anyone, though

Lets face it, whoever has the favour has a lot to do with whatever time it is in a particular region. Or am I the only one who actually needs sleep to function occasionally ?

Open a book sometime. German scientists came up with the idea but never came close to finishing it. America did though.

Modern Military strategy is completely different from that used in WWII. But, I'm sorry, I guess you are too busy thinking Eurocentrically to even notice that tactics have completely changed since then. Nuclear bombs, gorilla warfare, ICBM's, smart-weapons...etc...etc... It's called the present. Stop masturbating thinking about the past and realize things have changed. Oh wait...you will not do that. That is how Europe bent over for the Germans in WWI and WWII. Each time it took America to bail you all out of it.

You are right, complex civilazations don't make them the center of learning for all of mankind. But Europe is certainly NOT that. Maybe at one point in the past, yes. But not presently and not at all times in the past. But you will not accept that because, once again, you are masturbating thinking about the past achievements of Europe and not recognizing the facts of life. Europe is NOT the center of the world. You've been taught that but guess what? Hitler taught Germany that killing Jews was okay. You were wrong and he was wrong. Get over it. There are other countries and other civilazations many of whom surpassed and surpass Europe.

You've never even read Sun Tzu have you?

You might call me a board troll...but you are wholly uneducated.

actually, the lead scientist was oppenheimer who was a german..... also, einstein was german.

Yes. So does that mean one person in a large team of people can claim to have created something more than the team itself? Most of the team was American. Also if you read up on that whole endeavour you will find that Oppenheimer was wrong on many accounts. If the team would have followed his every word they would have created the world's first nuclear "dirty bomb" and not an actual nuclear bomb.

Einstein was a German. Correct. Hawkings is American. What is your point? No one country can claim to have more scientists (labeled geniuses) more than any other. China, Russia, England...etc...etc... Everyone has had a genius scientist who added tremendous contributions to mankind's knowledge.

Eh? Einstein was Austrian and Hawkings is English....
The USA like many other countries offered asylum to Jews and other persecuted groups during WWII. People like Einstein and Oppenheimer feared the Nazi regime and the potential of being forced to 'work' for them, so took up the US offer of freedom etc.

Stephen Hawkings went to Cambridge University, where he holds the seat of Mathematics, I forget what its called exactly, but Newton held it also. Infact in one of his books he says what an honour it was to get the seat that was once held by Newton.

Noteable American physicists that spring to mind are Feynmann and Dyson, although exceptionally intelligent men in their own right, and holders of numerous noble prizes, neither man is see by the scientific community as on a par with Einstein, Dirac etc.

Although a large team of brilliant scientists was required to turn theory into a weapon, the actual key to manufacturing a chain reaction of neutron emmision was the brainwave of ONE MAN. To create 'Little Boy', the name of the nuclear bomb, required many other scientific minds, but can you honestly say that making a bomb is comparable to unlocking the secrets of nuclear fission?

Regardless, many of the conerstone theories and discoveries of modern day science, such as all things related to cosmology, quantum mechanics, electromagnetism and the other related forces and theories, all came from European Scientists, almost unanimously, from a period between 1880 and 1930-40.

Thats correct, Dirac etc. 'discovered' quantum mechanics around 1920- ish, Einstein published his theories around 1910-20, not sure of the exact dates?
Henri Becquerel and Marie curie discovered and theorised about electricty and radioactivity at the turn of the century... well you get the picture..

Compare today wth yesteryear. CERN the European centre of physical research, a 10km diameter particle accelerator, proton smasher, and general sci-fi busting centre of discovery since its creation in the 1970's is in Geneva.

The United States was due to fund the SSC in 1993, an 8 billion dollar Super Conducting Super Collider in Texas, but pulled the plug when it was 2/5 complete. This was to be the next step in particle acceleration and its subsequent research. Canned by the USA.

Granted us 'Eurolanders' are not much better.... The worlds first Fusion Reactor was due to be completed in 2004, but it got canned too, due to physicists from the EU, and Japan, not being able to settle the arguement over who should have it built in their homeland.
The USA was not involved in this project.

NASA.... No thats enough for one night, I wont go into NASA.

To tone this whole thing down a bit, all im trying to say is that for the last 2-3000 years central and southern Europe has seen an exceptional amount of revolutionary minds, and discoveries. Maybe its the food ;p I dunno, but for whatever reason its fair to say the centre of technological advancement, philosophical ponderings, and scientific discovery for the entire Human race since the end of the Egyptian dynasties has almost unanimously come from the same tiny area of our planet.

You cannot deny this, you can only marvel at it.

What is this spiteful drivel? Do you realise that had Einstein et all not crossed the Atlantic it would have been New York and not Nagasaki that was in ruins?
I bet you, being so educated etc. do not know this? Hitler was devising ways to launch missiles from his U-boats. The Nazis were 2 years away from completing a nuclear weapon, WITHOUT Oppenhiemer and Einstein...

Hitler taught the German people nothing. One of Hitlers 'heros' the composer Wagner, around 1800 and something, was compsing anti semetic works, and held very strong views about Jews. It is not widely known, perhaps because very few non Germans can fully translate his works, that Wagner was as anti semetic as Hitler. Anti Semtism in that area of the world was rife around that time. Do not forget that Judiasm and Christianity are not the same religion, and that in the 18th century until around 1920 etc. Christianity was revered as fervently as any Al-Qaida follower would rever Islam.
In those time anti semitism was the norm for Christians. the more 'civilised' societies ignored it. Germany in the early 20th Century was a war torn occupied country. They had lost WWI, they were split and occupied, starving and unemployed. Hitler believed in what he said, and he galvanised a nation behind him. Try reading Mein Kampf and stop masturbating over Tzun Zu.

British military strategists at the end of WWI realised that warfare was changing. British military strategists, some of them, came up with a form of warfare where by Tanks and Planes would assualt the enemy forces or towns, and troops would follow taking and holding strategic locations. Unfortunatly Britain didnt think a second world war was likely, and the 'top brass' or high ranking military personell were to conservative. So these Blitzkreig tactics were not utilised by the British armed forces.
Some rather bright and upcoming young radicals ( the kind of person Hitler adored) realised this was the way forward. Europe as you say bent over to Hitler, because his armies were the most advanced in terms of technology in the world at the time. Germany's entire economy was built around armament, without a war Germany would have collapsed as a country into unemployment and debt. An entire country built on military production, galvanised behind a fanatical dictator, sporting the best armed forces in the world, and the latest military strategies on how to use them.

Britian was saved due to the heroism of its air force, and the fact its an island. The United States of America when it entered the war could not match Germany's technology, so could only pump out vehicles weapons, and personell. In the end overwhelming allied numbers told. Germany owned everyone in the 2nd world war. It was only the Russian winter that stopped operation Barberosa, the largest military deployment the world has EVER seen, that stopped YOU from speaking German as well.

Need I remind you about jet propelled missiles? The Atlantic fleets? The Bismarck and the tiger tank? The sherman was no match for the tiger. The Germans nicknamed them 'Tommy Cookers' because they would burst into flames when hit by a Tiger. Never the less the allies had no choice. On a side note the highly engineered German tanks suffered from needing complex spare parts, something the Russian Twhatever did not. Also in the unbelievable cold of Russian winter the German tanks tracks would freeze solid, so the Russian commanders would plan their attacks for dawn, when their opponents were immobilised. The Russians turned the tide of WWII by managing to defeat the unbeatable, due to exceptional luck, and ruthless execution. This forced the Germans into retreat, and changed the face of WWII.

Keep thinking America bailed out Europe, I wonder what the world would be like had you not entered the war. Heil!!!

One last note, the philosophy of ancient Greece owns all societies imo. Noone hasever, nor ever will, come so close to being 'perfect' at least in the ability of the mind to think clear and good thoughts.
Plato brought us 'The Rupublic' Aristotle or Socrates brought us 'Utopia'
The USA brings us 'Capitalism'.

Watch your mouth, you clearly know very little.

How About deleting this thread? Thats what I would do.

Heh

GEURRILLA warefare is as old as war itself... small bands of armed people taking to the countryside and using their knowledge of their surroundings to beat a more organised force.. Nah thats a 21st century thing that is....

Nuclear Weapons, ICBMs etc etc first appeared in WWII..

Rommels tank tactics are used today. The Desert Fox's methods no doubt will have been used in Iraq. Carrier based warefare, WWII Pacific.. Air raids, dogfighting, missiles, cluster bombs, mines, chemical warfare, some of it is 100 years old..

Sun Zu's works are generalisations, more fitting to medievil warfare than today, although im not sure exaclty when he was alive.

What has the latter part of this thread got to do with GW? /sigh
It's now mudslinging.

America produced it, it's purely engineering task, not a scientific breakthrough. USA captured German scientists.

Double-check your posts before writing such a nonsense. Some tactics already changed. Strategy lessons were mostly learned from WW2.

WW2. Thanks for proving that you don't think about what are you writing once again.

Gorilla warfare? LOL
Guerilla btw. WW2 and earlier.

It's not a strategy and not tactics, it's a delivery vehicle. Besides, what's the tactical use of ICBMs? Ok, even strategical one? I doubt that there will be a lot of people in a world left to think about strategy if Russian Federation will launch 200 ICBMs. It will be a right time to think about a last prayer while missiles are still in flight. A nuclear winter will kill most survivors anyway.

Guidance system, just an improvement for already existing weapons. Tactics to use a USA "smart weapons"... Press a button. Ops we hit a Chinese embassy. Our weapons are smart, they know what we really want to hit and so they hit it
Besides, self-guided torpedoes existed during WW2 if i am not mistaken.

Point taken. When USA entered a war, Russia already refitted a production for a war and produced more weapons than Germany. Don't forget to count a number of divisions on USA and on Russian front... But of course dumb americans think that it's USA who won the war, everyone in a world knows that they really believe that they won it.
Probably that's why you don't know anything about WW2 - you read only USA books about it.

LOL i wrote that just to taunt you. It worked.

Like which ones?

Gave it a glance, nothing special. If you know how to play strategy games, then there is nothing new there. Good for a newcomers who don't have a strategical thinking.

No, i was mistaken. You're a board bull, you see red and CHAAAARGE across your keyboard. So funny

Britian was saved due to the heroism of its air force, and the fact its an island.

Hahahahaha, that is a load of tosh.
GB was on its Knees, Hitler Liked the Brits and actually wanted to be Allies with us, but we said no.
The only reason we did not fall to germany completely was because he stopped the mass bombing. We were actual 1 week away from surrended, our forces crippled along with everything else.
It was after this the Yanks actually Joined in. They realised that if they didn't Hitler would be knocking on there Door, and if he actually Conqured Europe He would be Too Powerful to beat.
The main reason the germans lost the war was because Hitler attacked Russia, they actually has a pact not to get involved in the war, but the germans broke it. When he split his Tank divisions to attack Staligrad it was the begining og the end.

After this the Nukes came into being, as it was the only way for Germany to win, so it was the first major arms race. Luckly america won that day.

this is so sad....

shame on you!

(and stick to topic please)

Add that with all that you previously said in your post and I need say nothing more. Wow....a Neo-Nazi on this board...just...wow....

Err...EU people...you really want this kind of person to speak for you? I decline to respond to eventhorizen anymore after this post.